524 réponses à ce sujet

[Wabajakka]

Reasons this all may be true to some extent:

- What's the point of any other DLC being released for this game (besides multiplayer) when you know it won't effect or add to the expierience of what happens at the end?

- No Mass Relays alone pretty much ruins or puts any future for the franchise in a very awkward place unless they come up with some half ass cute story about rebuidling them or new tech that allows them to travel without them (lol no, did you see all that destruction?)

- Bioware said themselves they wouldn't leave any questions unanswered in Shepards conclusion. That's simply not true with the current state of the ending, especialy the ending where you clearly see him breathe.

- I don't think anyone's mentioned how in the world the crucible ends up firing its lazer after Shepard either kills himself or blows up a part of it. (seriously... wtf)

- How the hell Anderson suddenly became a Jamaican olympic runner and somehow made it into the citidel after you and then to the control panel before you (looking pretty fresh and untouched at that considering)... Also where the hell did TIM come from??? There was nowhere he could've hid himself on that tiny platform! Indoctrination mind wizardry to say the least...

- How Shepard doesn't question the the situation he is in during the choices, obviously, and how so little is told about the catalyst and the kid during the main quest.


Reasons we may be hoping for too much:

- Seems a little too confusing/far-fethced considering how appealing Mass Effect is trying to be now to all audiences. (also, why would they leave part of the story untold to the non-hardcore group off Mass Effect players leaving a confusing impression on their product in the end? Unless they may have not noticed how little sense it made.)

- The rest of Shepards story from the current ending, unfortunately, could probably be told in future Mass Effect games through codex or characters. 

- Honestly seems like the most idiotic move to be ever taken by any developer to blatantly ship an unfinished product and release the rest of the story a few months later. (I know we're mad, but it's their job, their not stupid)

unless, they are looking to add a huuuuge DLC closer to the end of this year extending the story beyond the battle for Earth adding hours of more gameplay. Maybe they have to move the curcible around a bit to destroy them all? A little final husk/reaper clean up afterward and some relationship closure? (So many guys owe me drinks it's rediculous)

- Seriously though, what else would the crucible do to destroy ALL the reapers at once other than the power of all the mass relays combined?

- And finally, the galaxy needs to be left in some state of disarray (large issue) so Mass Effect as a series can move forward as a franchise and, unfortunately, that may mean the rebuilding of the entire galaxy from scratch despite how stupid that may sound considering the lack of space travel and would hurt the whole Sci-Fi opera part of the game a lot lol and I think we're a little tired of the post-apocolypse type setting.

In the end though I damn well hope this theory is true or else whats the point of investing yourslef in DLC at all if you know it won't make a difference or add to the conclusion of the game kind of like how Javik became a pretty important part of the main quest after doing his side mission to aquire him. I just hope they end up doing the right thing in this game or the next...

[MHanson072]

TremulantOne wrote...


The stargazer dude is creepy as hell though and has a terrible voice actor for the man and the child. Also, calling ones grandson "my sweet" is pedo mode.

The voice actor for Stargazer is Buzz Aldrin so I'm cuttting him some slack.

[MHanson072]

spartain999 wrote...


ugh x.x I'm getting sick of repeating myself. All of this is a test for indoctrination. So if you choose control you are indoctrinated. You choose destroy you break free from the indoctrination and wake back up on earth where the indoctrination began. You never do anything to the reapers themselves. 

I believe this simple reply the most and to me it makes the most sense.  First of all, Shepard breathes at the very end, after all the images and Normandy stuff.  This is definitely a sign and a teaser that there is more of the story to come.  I completely support the indoctrination ending theory and can remember many parts in the game where Shepard is constantly overhearing or participating in conversations surrounding synthetic versus organic life (a good one for this is the conversation between Engineer Adams and Dr. Chalkwas in the crew deck area).  I don't think though that it was a test for indoctrination...I believe that it was Shepard overcoming indoctrination by completing a test of Shepard's will.

In support, I offer Liara's sister who was able to resist indoctrination via her "force of will" but only for a moment.  Samara even stated that it was possible if the person's will was strong enough.  Well...we all know Shepard has tons of will power and if anyone was going to resist indoctrination, it was Shepard.  Hence, the ending after all the other images where Shepard is breathing denotes that Shepard refused to accept the virtual outcome the Reapers tried to give him. 

The choices offered to Shepard are a test...a test of where Shepard's will is centered and how much will he has to stop the Reapers.  The crucible is the test.  For those who need support of the test theory, the definition of crucible is:


1): a vessel of a very refractory material (as porcelain) used for melting and calcining a substance that requires a high degree of heat


2): a severe test


3): a place or situation in which concentrated forces interact to cause or influence change or development


I agree that Shepard throughout the game does display signs of indoctrination due to the whispers and dreams. 

In conclusion, I would like to make it known that my first action as Shepard was actually to turn around and shoot the kid with the gun a couple of times, but since he didn't die, I chose to destroy the reapers.  I hate it when Reapers/Catalysts try and take away my free will by offering me only three choices.

Modifié par MHanson072, 13 mars 2012 - 08:02 .

[GOODKyle]

MHanson072 wrote...

TremulantOne wrote...


The stargazer dude is creepy as hell though and has a terrible voice actor for the man and the child. Also, calling ones grandson "my sweet" is pedo mode.

The voice actor for Stargazer is Buzz Aldrin so I'm cuttting him some slack.

I don't care if I'm giving slack or not this made me lol

[RemorseLessXx]

Hey GOODKyle i am spreading your video around as much as i can. Everything you have said makes a lot of sense. Keep up the good work.

[Blind2Society]

Honestly if BW did this on purpose what with the red ending being the "good" ending, everything after getting hit by the beam just an illusion of being indocted and waiting to release the true ending, then they are absolutely brilliant and even genious. However, if that's the case they are going to have a lot of trouble convinving people they aren't doing it simply because of the outrage and that they planned it all along.

Modifié par Blind2Society, 13 mars 2012 - 11:04 .

[Tsantilas]

Proof the endings are not indoctrinations: Shepard has the option to destroy the reapers. If it is all supposed to be an elaborate trick, this option would not be available.

My work here is done.

[Walrusninja]

Yeah but the option does nothing other than make a random end to his "dream" so it doesn't matter.

[Tsantilas]

Walrusninja wrote...

Yeah but the option does nothing other than make a random end to his "dream" so it doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter if it's "destroy the reapers" or "end the indoctrination".  If you have someone in your grasp you don't give him the option to escape.  It's that simple.  People are just naive and hope that it isn't just bad writing (not that Shepard being indoctrinated is good writing, but whatever).

[Walrusninja]

Well, if he "escapes" he goes back to lying on the ground in front of Harbinger, not really a win hah.

[piemanz]

If this is true, then why is my shepard a 'legend' for choosing the wrong option?

Modifié par piemanz, 13 mars 2012 - 11:30 .

[Buddha Boris]

Walrusninja wrote...

Well, if he "escapes" he goes back to lying on the ground in front of Harbinger, not really a win hah.

The whole idea behind Shepard is that he's a man who can overcome any obstacle presented to him. He would wake up, shake off the dust and proceed to kick some reaper butt. Mass Effect also asks us to suspend our disbelief to some extent. Considering how powerful Sovereign was and how many reapers there were at the end of ME2, it's unlikely that they could be stopped at all. But that wouldn't make for a very enjoyable gaming experience. So waking up in front of Harbinger isn't THAT hopeless.

piemanz wrote...

If this is true, then why is my shepard a 'legend' for choosing the wrong option?

Because of Liara's black boxes. It is reasonable to assume that she spread them around before they headed for earth and that future civilizations found some of them. It therefore doesn't matter which choice you make, someone will remember you.


Edit: I would also like to add that I'm very much a proponent of this hypothesis. This would indeed redeem the writers in my eyes.

Modifié par Buddha Boris, 13 mars 2012 - 04:04 .

[GOODKyle]

lets put it this way, even if these endings are never fixed people WILL be talking about them for years to come. Like em or not they DID make an impact and sometimes thats the best thing you can hope for with a story.

Re-reading some of the posts and you are 100% right here. No matter who is right this ending will probably be remembered for some time in the gaming community. 

[mackan__s]

Maybe the whole mass effect 3 was an big wartrauma for Shepard.. sicne after suicide mission in ME2.. hehe

[Raanz]

Tsantilas wrote...

Proof the endings are not indoctrinations: Shepard has the option to destroy the reapers. If it is all supposed to be an elaborate trick, this option would not be available.

My work here is done.

This is the way his mind is processing the indoctrination.  His free will is represented by the choice to destroy the reapers...it's not the reapers giving him a choice.

[GOODKyle]

Raanz wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

Proof the endings are not indoctrinations: Shepard has the option to destroy the reapers. If it is all supposed to be an elaborate trick, this option would not be available.

My work here is done.

This is the way his mind is processing the indoctrination.  His free will is represented by the choice to destroy the reapers...it's not the reapers giving him a choice.

Yea, some people don't understand that the destroy the reapers option breaks you out of indoctrination according to this theory, not that you actually destroy the reapers x.x'

[Buddha Boris]

GOODKyle wrote...

Raanz wrote...

Tsantilas wrote...

Proof the endings are not indoctrinations: Shepard has the option to destroy the reapers. If it is all supposed to be an elaborate trick, this option would not be available.

My work here is done.

This is the way his mind is processing the indoctrination.  His free will is represented by the choice to destroy the reapers...it's not the reapers giving him a choice.

Yea, some people don't understand that the destroy the reapers option breaks you out of indoctrination according to this theory, not that you actually destroy the reapers x.x'

Regarding your video, it might interest you that you were spot on about Shepard not being himself during the conversation and why that could be the case. Our brain's internal reality check doesn't work while dreaming and even if it does eventually kick in, it's almost impossible to remain aware of the illusion for a prolonged period of time. The reapers could've easily used this weakness to conjure up a convincing deception.

[GOODKyle]

Buddha Boris wrote...


Regarding your video, it might interest you that you were spot on about Shepard not being himself during the conversation and why that could be the case. Our brain's internal reality check doesn't work while dreaming and even if it does eventually kick in, it's almost impossible to remain aware of the illusion for a prolonged period of time. The reapers could've easily used this weakness to conjure up a convincing deception.

getting all sciency on me lol

[Kilshrek]

The kid controls the Reapers, the kid gave a somewhat valid explanation for the Reapers. The kid is some super advanced AI, and as with the Legion sequence, Shepard's mind translates raw data into a familiar form.

Of course, I blew the kid and the reapers to hell. No way would that "you can control them", or "you can merge with them" bs work with me. I'm totally not indoctrinated.

[cgtrfghj7]

This theory is very very interesting and I want to believe it. I REALLY DO. 

Part of me just says that this whole theory is an excuse for fans who hated the endings and can't accept the fact that Bioware wrote such a horrid ending to an amazing series to justify them. 
I agree with most of the points you made, but there are 2 main arguments I have against this:

1. Why on earth would Bioware pull such a stunt? I mean of course they could expand on this ending with further DLC but people were probably going to buy DLC for this game anyway. Also I'm quite certain that atleast some writers at Bioware thought that such an ending wouldn't sit well with fans. They must have expected an enormous amount of outrage considering how much backlash they got with DA. Even if this theory is indeed true and this is exactly what Bioware was planning all along,  the credibility for any of their work from now on could be jeopardized and people might not take any endings to their future titles seriously anymore. I don't think risking the loss of the majority of your fan's trust is worth DLC money or writing an elaborate ending. 

2. If this last scene is indoctrination, why would the reapers want Shepard to choose the control/synthetic option if they destroy the relays and the citadel? They needed the citadel and the relays to make sure that civilizations spread across the galaxy in a manner that they desired. Destroying the citadel and the relays would mean that they need another plan or to atleast remake all of them.


 

[Platysoma]

Be that as it may I also Like this theory, however I think we can be fairly sure that if you are shot down and end up half dead, you would also not react the way you normally do in a conversation. So I wouldn´t say that is especially convincing as evidence. Still I like the theory, would be nice if it was something like this that Bioware planned out.

Modifié par Platysoma, 13 mars 2012 - 08:03 .

[mcharj11]

For the folks saying that Shepard wasn't under the influence of Reapers long enough for indoctrination, Shepard had Reaper technology present within him since being rebuilt with project Lazarus. So you have the time of the ME2 story plus the 6 months between the end of ME2 and beginning of ME3, plus the time it takes Shepard to rally the galaxy against the Repears.

There has been plenty of time, look at what happened to Grayson in the books.

[azerSheppard]

The people who liked it aren't indoctrinated, the ones that didn't like it are indoctrinated, they are a splinter-group that will cause us to lose bioware, by wanting to control the writers. Pick the correct side, and "like" the game, so we can destroy the writers.

SOON

[Nyx2k]

After deeply thinking about the indoctriantion theroy od the endings, somehow the game in overall makes way more sense. It definietly has to mean something, that the conversation at the end with TIM is exactly the same as with Saren from ME1. Even the "I kill myself with a gun and fall to the left" animation is the same. That is way beyond coincidence. And how the hell did TIM control Shepard with biotics? Even if he can because of the implants, why can he control Anderson as well?
Even Liara states a few times throughout the games, that Shepard is capable of remarkable willpower. She said that it is absolutely fascinating that he did not just survive the Prothean Beacon, no, he even kept his sanity. According to her, every other person would have gone mad.

I still say its all in Shepards head. And all we do is decide if we fight the indoctrination, give into it, or sit it out some more.

[ed87]

It took Christopher Nolan 9 years to get Inception right and weed out all the holes in its story. ME3 was always going to have plot-holes. Its just a shame that people lose the plot so much that they try to make theories out of it