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Proof Mass Effect 3 Endings Were Indoctrinations


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#476
GOODKyle

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krogstor wrote...

I'm sitting here laughing about this whole ending thing, either BW completely trolled everyone with an indoctrinated ending which might not be an ending if you opted to destroy the reapers.

OR, and hear me out, they made such a ****ty, disappointing ending that they thought was "good enough", and now everybody coming up with all these theories would be a way for them to add onto the story.

Think about it, if you want the people to have the most personal experience with a story, build it up, end it on a horrible note, pay attention to what people wanted to see, and release it as DLC.

Bioware trolled us either way, either the ending was indoctrination, or they're taking hints from us talking about the idea in the first place. +1 bioware, -1 quintillion for the fans.


dun dun dun

#477
krogstor

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Human; viable possibility, if emotional drives are subjugated. EA am the harbinger of your perfection, you cannot resist. This hurts you, you do not yet comprehend your place in things. Preserve Shepards body if possible. The forces of the universe bend to me, our power is unmatched.

Your minions have failed, Shepard.


:innocent:

#478
GOODKyle

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krogstor wrote...

Human; viable possibility, if emotional drives are subjugated. EA am the harbinger of your perfection, you cannot resist. This hurts you, you do not yet comprehend your place in things. Preserve Shepards body if possible. The forces of the universe bend to me, our power is unmatched.

Your minions have failed, Shepard.


:innocent:


o.o....................................................................

#479
Helion Tide

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I've supported this 100% since playing the game my first time through. I knew something was amiss with the ending, I just couldn't get my head around it. After reading several speculations, going over the codex, realizing foreshadowing and the details throughout the series that makes this completely viable, I played the endgame sequence over, appreciating what may have been happening, and after it "ended", I sat back in my chair and applauded. Absolutely brilliant.

Spread the word, everyone. Unfortunately, trying to help people understand what is happening instead of accepting the "end" of the game at face value is a difficult task, so expect to be called a troll several times over. But, only time will tell.

So, is this "wishful thinking"? Of course it is. But it's also the best collection of evidence and speculation we all have to decode the truth behind the events of the "end" of the game. So, if we all end up correct in our assumptions, this will literally be the greatest plot twist I've ever experienced in a video game. If it doesn't, and we are all somehow expected to accept the game for what it was at face value, then so be it. Bioware truly did let its fans down, and that will be their mistake to mend. But for the time being, I am anxiously waiting for the next chapter in Shepard's story.

#480
JMA22TB

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I would love for this to be true.

I would also love for the true ending to be Shepard getting up from the dream, doing whatever it takes to stop the Reapers and walk away alive and when you destroy Harbinger Shepard yells

"That was for all life you son of a ****!"

Why do we have to wonder if that happens? Why can't that have been put in and made the game unimaginably glorious?

#481
Phoras

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I believe just having the *erherm* illusive kid there lends more credit to the indoctrination theory than any other theory or explanation/interpretation of the ending.

#482
GOODKyle

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Helion Tide wrote...

I've supported this 100% since playing the game my first time through. I knew something was amiss with the ending, I just couldn't get my head around it. After reading several speculations, going over the codex, realizing foreshadowing and the details throughout the series that makes this completely viable, I played the endgame sequence over, appreciating what may have been happening, and after it "ended", I sat back in my chair and applauded. Absolutely brilliant.

Spread the word, everyone. Unfortunately, trying to help people understand what is happening instead of accepting the "end" of the game at face value is a difficult task, so expect to be called a troll several times over. But, only time will tell.

So, is this "wishful thinking"? Of course it is. But it's also the best collection of evidence and speculation we all have to decode the truth behind the events of the "end" of the game. So, if we all end up correct in our assumptions, this will literally be the greatest plot twist I've ever experienced in a video game. If it doesn't, and we are all somehow expected to accept the game for what it was at face value, then so be it. Bioware truly did let its fans down, and that will be their mistake to mend. But for the time being, I am anxiously waiting for the next chapter in Shepard's story.


You sir are wise beyond internet years. 

#483
IST

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GOODKyle wrote...

Helion Tide wrote...

I've supported this 100% since playing the game my first time through. I knew something was amiss with the ending, I just couldn't get my head around it. After reading several speculations, going over the codex, realizing foreshadowing and the details throughout the series that makes this completely viable, I played the endgame sequence over, appreciating what may have been happening, and after it "ended", I sat back in my chair and applauded. Absolutely brilliant.

Spread the word, everyone. Unfortunately, trying to help people understand what is happening instead of accepting the "end" of the game at face value is a difficult task, so expect to be called a troll several times over. But, only time will tell.

So, is this "wishful thinking"? Of course it is. But it's also the best collection of evidence and speculation we all have to decode the truth behind the events of the "end" of the game. So, if we all end up correct in our assumptions, this will literally be the greatest plot twist I've ever experienced in a video game. If it doesn't, and we are all somehow expected to accept the game for what it was at face value, then so be it. Bioware truly did let its fans down, and that will be their mistake to mend. But for the time being, I am anxiously waiting for the next chapter in Shepard's story.


You sir are wise beyond internet years. 

+1

#484
IronSabbath88

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Helion Tide wrote...

I've supported this 100% since playing the game my first time through. I knew something was amiss with the ending, I just couldn't get my head around it. After reading several speculations, going over the codex, realizing foreshadowing and the details throughout the series that makes this completely viable, I played the endgame sequence over, appreciating what may have been happening, and after it "ended", I sat back in my chair and applauded. Absolutely brilliant.

Spread the word, everyone. Unfortunately, trying to help people understand what is happening instead of accepting the "end" of the game at face value is a difficult task, so expect to be called a troll several times over. But, only time will tell.

So, is this "wishful thinking"? Of course it is. But it's also the best collection of evidence and speculation we all have to decode the truth behind the events of the "end" of the game. So, if we all end up correct in our assumptions, this will literally be the greatest plot twist I've ever experienced in a video game. If it doesn't, and we are all somehow expected to accept the game for what it was at face value, then so be it. Bioware truly did let its fans down, and that will be their mistake to mend. But for the time being, I am anxiously waiting for the next chapter in Shepard's story.


Well said, my friend, well said.

And you're right, the people who don't want to think BioWare intended this will just call you an idiot or a troll.

#485
Claire_delune99

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Great video! The indoctrination theory makes a lot of sense!...

#486
GOODKyle

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Claire_delune99 wrote...

Great video! The indoctrination theory makes a lot of sense!...


Let's just hope Bioware starts making sense soon

#487
Derp88

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While I think this is a possibility, and am inclined to believe it rather than the closing events actually taking place, there is a nagging feeling I'm having;

If the Destruction (red) option is meant to be you breaking the indoctrination, why does it also destroy Earth and everyone on it (Reapers, the marines and Big Ben all obliterated in cut-scene) IF your EMS is low? What is this meant to symbolise in Shepard's "hallucination/indoctrination"?

Could be that maybe his best was still not good enough to save Earth, and is a husk of his former self - thus the Reapers still win? Maybe?

It's just that your EMS does have a factor whether Earth is saved or not, so is in favor that the events on the Citadel did actually happen and it was not an indoctrination attempt. I'm not saying its proof. Nothing is proven until Bioware come out and actually reveal their master plan. Or lack thereof....

But if the IT is true...hats off to Bioware is all I can say.

Modifié par Derp88, 19 mars 2012 - 03:35 .


#488
-Rezo-

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GOODKyle wrote...

 I did my best but I have that feeling like I forgot something. Please let me know! But here is my opinion slash viewpoint on the endings. 

About Final Hours...
http://social.biowar.../index/10028289  

Indoctrination Theory Video:  


+1 man.

#489
GOODKyle

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-Rezo- wrote...


+1 man.


yay thank you sir!

#490
Newtype Taichou

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Okay so just some questions, this is an interesting theory for sure.

1. If Shepard was indeed indoctrinated, why not just kill him? - Maybe they didn't have "enough" control?

2. So this theory states that the "destroy" ending is the actual real ending right? The one's that the Reapers don't want (hence why they made it seem like a bad decision)? - So what if you choose this ending? I assume you just continue on doing whatever in the DLC

If it was all an indoctrination; does that mean Shepard doesn't actually gain control of the Reapers (If you go that route)? If so where would DLC go from there? He doesn't control them, so doesn't that mean he lost?

If it was the synthesis option, where do you go from there? I guess you could just continue on in this case; seems like both Reapers and non-Reapers benefit.

Also just like someone else mentioned, what about the out-of-game cut-scenes and the scene on that world with Joker? Or the stargazer? That seems like it's the biggest loose end here, that's a really huge stretch to assume that even though it's being shown directly to the player it is still imaginary to Shepard.

EDIT: If he was under control the whole time, why not just force him to allow the Reapers to survive? Again, probably not full control?

Modifié par Newtype Taichou, 23 mars 2012 - 02:58 .


#491
jimminysausage

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If this turns out to be true, and they can prove they planned it all along, and the final 'citadel battle/real ending DLC' is free, it would be the greatest artistic masterstroke in the history of gaming.

If it is true, I assume they wanted to release the 'real ending/citadel battle' DLC last, after all the other DLCs have been done, maybe in six months, and when they are ready to announce another Mass Effect spinoff game. Now they will have to rush out the new ending to placate everyone, so even the 'true ending', if planned all along, could be compromised.

If it WAS true though, with viral marketing and puzzles for fans to solve being so common, one would think Bioware would have hinted at that by now. They might have said, 'Ah ha, analyse the ending in more detail' to the haters or something to build up suspense. Or they would have given the people who 'solved' it already some kudos. Maybe they will make the Indoctrination Theory true now even if they didn't plan to because it has gathered some steam, but if it had been true all along, you'd think they'd be hinting at that already to save face (and stock value).

Great theory, I'd love for it to be true. Heck, that and Dark Energy would satisfy me. Anything that keeps the relays around and most races intact so we can play more games in the Mass Effect universe again later. It's such a great setting; seems a shame to spoil the whole chance of a further franchise by decimating the relays that make the universe work and give the games their name.

Also, I note, there is so much Christian/Jesus allegory in the series, so much so that sometimes they out-and-out throw the appropriate Bible quote in there. Shepard was raised from the dead; Legion's million souls did get thrown out there amongst all the 'pigs' (perceived lower form of life); the Illusive Man is something of a Judas. The one thing they haven't done from Jesus lore/mythology/whatever is the Temptation in the Desert. Well, maybe you could count working with Cerberus as temptation, but, the Reapers were the Devil all along, not Cerberus. Cerberus are just the gateway to hell, selling out humanity, selling out salvation, like Judas. The game has always NEEDED an indoctrination scene for its internal logic, and that scene always needed to be big and memorable. A few seconds of funny voices in the head and shooting Anderson isn't much of an indoctrination/temptation scene. This ending, as Indoctrination Theory, would be the perfect temptation scene. 40 days and 40 nights, so it's supposed to feel weighty.

What does the devil tempt Jesus with? One temptation is joining the devil to have power over the known world and all life (Control) and the other thing the devil suggests is that Jesus jumps off a cliff and trusts that angels will break his fall... and the Synthesis ending sure looks like that, with Shepard leaping off a platform into holy light. Silly, silly Synthesis Shepard (I did that, my Shepard is a husk now I guess).

Christian allegory has been in the background of the games all along. Don't have to be religious to see that or care. I'm an Atheist but it's all cool, just a storytelling technique, sci fi does religion a lot these days. Even the game calls the story of Eve and the Bible quote 'mythology', so they're using it for storytelling richness and not religious propaganda. The devil tempting Jesus in the desert is a major part of Jesus lore, and the devils in this universe are the reapers, Shepard is Jesus (obviously, good shepherd, duh) and indoctrination is temptation. Join the devil and have power over everything (Control), jump off a cliff and rely on angels saving you (Synthesis) or resist temptation (destroy). Jesus in the desert... Shepard in the rubble. The devil is even right there with him in the desert/rubble: harbinger.

So Indoctrination Theory perfectly fits the game's internal logic in so many beautiful ways.

Modifié par jimminysausage, 23 mars 2012 - 05:03 .


#492
GOODKyle

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Newtype Taichou wrote...

Okay so just some questions, this is an interesting theory for sure.

1. If Shepard was indeed indoctrinated, why not just kill him? - Maybe they didn't have "enough" control?

2. So this theory states that the "destroy" ending is the actual real ending right? The one's that the Reapers don't want (hence why they made it seem like a bad decision)? - So what if you choose this ending? I assume you just continue on doing whatever in the DLC

If it was all an indoctrination; does that mean Shepard doesn't actually gain control of the Reapers (If you go that route)? If so where would DLC go from there? He doesn't control them, so doesn't that mean he lost?

If it was the synthesis option, where do you go from there? I guess you could just continue on in this case; seems like both Reapers and non-Reapers benefit.

Also just like someone else mentioned, what about the out-of-game cut-scenes and the scene on that world with Joker? Or the stargazer? That seems like it's the biggest loose end here, that's a really huge stretch to assume that even though it's being shown directly to the player it is still imaginary to Shepard.

EDIT: If he was under control the whole time, why not just force him to allow the Reapers to survive? Again, probably not full control?


Harbinger takes an interest in a Shepard and if they can indoc Shep (the one who the entire galaxy follows) than the war is over right quick. 

Hopefully this theory is correct and DLC will come out to finish the post-indoctrination game. Whether that is just defaulted to resisting indoc or relishing in it remains to be seen.  

All the other questions are answered in the vid's description. 

#493
mghjr6

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If they were originally planning to do SOMETHING with indoctrination in the end -- and by all accounts I've heard they were -- but they cut it out completely at the end, then the clues would all still be visible in the game proper.

I still hold out hope that the Indoctrination Theory is right, but for some reason it almost seems more likely that they just blew it. Jaded, I guess.

#494
GOODKyle

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mghjr6 wrote...

If they were originally planning to do SOMETHING with indoctrination in the end -- and by all accounts I've heard they were -- but they cut it out completely at the end, then the clues would all still be visible in the game proper.

I still hold out hope that the Indoctrination Theory is right, but for some reason it almost seems more likely that they just blew it. Jaded, I guess.


Final Hours states they got rid of gameplay mechanics of indoctrination. Nothing was mentioned regarding the plotpoint of it. So let's hope. 

Modifié par GOODKyle, 23 mars 2012 - 05:18 .


#495
Mr Bassplayer

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If this is true, which I hope it is, this is awesome!! The Indoctrintation Theory is giving us Mass effect fans hope for more, because I need more Mass Effect!! Plz Bioware, follow up this lead and finish this epic triology with a bang...

#496
GOODKyle

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Mr Bassplayer wrote...

If this is true, which I hope it is, this is awesome!! The Indoctrintation Theory is giving us Mass effect fans hope for more, because I need more Mass Effect!! Plz Bioware, follow up this lead and finish this epic triology with a bang...


heh...bang

#497
WestLakeDragon

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I for one welcome our new Reaper overlords

#498
GOODKyle

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WestLakeDragon wrote...

I for one welcome our new Reaper overlords


....

#499
Dr_Hello

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One of the ME producers once stated that ME will have an equivalent twist to Star Wars' i.e. "Luke, I am your father".

Could the indoc. theory be it?

#500
GOODKyle

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Dr_Hello wrote...

One of the ME producers once stated that ME will have an equivalent twist to Star Wars' i.e. "Luke, I am your father".

Could the indoc. theory be it?


When ahd where?