524 réponses à ce sujet

[M_Kirkwall]

I just went back and did the mission again with Destroy choice. AND when you wake and on London YOU CAN HEAR REAPERS STILL FIGHTING. Oh my god.. Just turn up the volume. (Or maybe it was me wishing this was true )

[Scitenik]

The pessimist in me says that this isn't true, but the optimist in me kind of hopes it is and that it will get added onto in the future. Just have to wait and see, I guess.

[rvgifford]

Voidster wrote...

I realize that "if" this is the truth, then i owe bioware an apology. However, to me they trolled us. They prob had all of it planned out then decided the true ending would be a DLC, so they chopped it off..and now wait patiently.

I still dont like the way they did it, nor their lack of response on the matter. Bioware used to care, what happened? 

Yeah, I concur 100% . . . though I don't know if I'll be apologetic. The only apology they'll get will be my money when I buy the DLC/expansion.

[balance5050]

I think it's brilliant, but if it's free it will be perfect. I personally want that footage from ME1 of "After all Mass Effect 1 Eden Prime survivors when the ship landed it emitted some signal that just bore into my head."

but if it's true it's simply brilliant, think of all the emotions that this game has caused, all the outcomes, how many people chose to give in/were fooled and be indoctrinated. The most compelling evidence is Shepard waking up, which ONLY makes sense if you have proper EMS (to protect you while your down) and you choose to destroy (that's his choice to keep fighting). Only Harbinger would be that insideous to straight lie to you.

The endings you see were rushed because once you've made your choice, Harbinger/writers will show what REALLY happens with the reveal DLC. It will be like, Choosing to try and control is foolish, why all the respect now? 'cause he passed out after after hearing Hacket say "nothings happening... it must be something on your end."? And synthesis will be something like shepherds consciousness influencing harbinger or the reapers in some small way but it probably still ends badly.

My small evidence contribution: When you unmask a cerberus unit in the beginning and Ashley is there, she says something like "would you even know if you weree being controlled?"... thats called foreshadowing.

I may be grasping at straws... but Shepard taught me to to never lose hope. I'm sorry, but the the endings accepted at face value would send the Mass Effect universe into a kind of dark age our planet has never before seen.

Modifié par balance5050, 12 mars 2012 - 08:38 .

[mavzn]

Vallinn wrote...

 I'd also like to add a little tidbit to this theory.

Go into the in-game Codex to the 'Indoctrination' entry. In the second paragraph there's a sentence that goes as follows: "As time passes, they have feelings of 'being watched' and hallucinations of 'ghostly presences'..".

Now go find some videos of the Dream sequences that Shepard undergoes throughout the game and watch them in order ( there's 3 of them ).

In the first sequence, Shepard is just following the boy - nothing special. In the second, while Shepard is trying to reach the child there are black, slightly humanoid 'shadows' that start to appear ( 'Ghostly presences' ). Now to the third, look how many are filling the 'Dream'... They are everywhere.

Coincidence? I think not.

**Spoilers**



Possible, but even as late as Thessia, the Prothean VI does not detect the taint of indoctrination on Shep + co... where as it notes it as soon as KL appears.

Modifié par mavzn, 12 mars 2012 - 08:39 .

[Dopeslap]

Holy crap Batman!

[Nightshade386]

IF the ending was really about indoctrination, then the aftereffects should have been far more diverse and should have been done in such a way that at the end the player understood. If it's that wishy-washy it's bad writing.

[GOODKyle]

STAG IRONHIDE wrote...

I think you're just grasping for straws because the ending was garbage.

If that was their intended ending, they would've made it clear. Anything past this point is a retcon looking to make DLC money, not clever writing or story telling.

True. As one person commented on the video...either I'm a genius for realizing all this or the ending was such crap that my evidence fits all the plot holes lol

[TcomJ]

Sorry, indoctrination assumption is just a really bad sorry ass wishful thinking. The kid said that Shep wasn't being control and he can control the reapers, synthesis or destroy them. That's the reason why the illusive man will never succeed.

[IronSabbath88]

Nightshade386 wrote...

IF the ending was really about indoctrination, then the aftereffects should have been far more diverse and should have been done in such a way that at the end the player understood. If it's that wishy-washy it's bad writing.

Not necessarily. If players could see it coming from a mile away, it wouldn't leave very much of a surprise would it? They left it open for you to catch the clues on your own.

[ShdwFox7]

Sorry, but I've got to admit the video does a poor job of supporting all the indoctrination/hallucination theories out there. The main problem is how it seemingly skips many parts, including the exact moment it happens (which most say is when Shepard gets knocked out by the blast during the hill run). If it should skip anything, it should skip all the slow-walking parts. If you wish to make your video more in depth, here is some good things to point out.



Stuff to include:


- The third dream prior to invading TIM's satellite base. The dream symbolizes that Shepard will destroy him or herself and humanity. This could be interrupted as the reapers subtly trying to influence Shepard to choose a sacrifice option at the catalyst (i.e. synthesis or control).

- Unlimited ammo without the use of thermal clips. I can confirm that after forty shots it keeps going (360). But that's impossible to do with a M-6 Carnifex heavy pistol (or any heavy pistol), since it only has a capacity of six bullets. I've seen some people be able to load a thermal clip, but I've never been able to do this on the 360, so I assume it's a PC thing.

- Mention the dying soldiers around the transport beam are completely unscathed. Their armor has no recognizable battle damage. Additionally, your squad mates are no where in sight. Prior to the blast they do follow you in, but slowly.

- People have mentioned that the husks and marauder die too easily. This is false, their health is based on the difficulty setting your playing on. I can insure you on insanity that they are very hard to kill (especially the marauder) without a few well-placed head shots.

- Further mention of Anderson. It makes no sense that as an admiral he'd run down the hill with the soldiers. A man of his position would stay back and direct his military. Also, like the other soldiers, he doesn't have a single scratch on him. And while many would say that it's impossible for Anderson to make it to the console before Shepard, I personally disagree. Anderson mentions he got beamed in a different place and that the structure was shifting. He could have jumped/climbed/crawled pass several shifting sections to make it there before Shepard.

- Include segments about the three "1M1" symbols that appear on the left side and right side of the walls as you walk through the tunnels. Many believe this is some sort of code date for a future release date. For example: 1 + 13 + 1 = 15 (m being the thirteenth letter of the alphabet). I wouldn't say anything along the lines of " with certainty this is what the code means" because it's impossible to tell. Also mention that story wise, it's really odd that a centuries upon centuries old device (the citadel) would have symbols in the interior that are recognizable by a modern species. Although it could be argued these sections were part of the crucible/catalyst.

- Need some mention of the synthesis ending. The general consensus is that synthesis is the ultimate goal of the reapers, a way to combine organics with synthetics like themselves.



Stuff to remove:


- Segments about "breathing in space". If you recall the beginning of ME2, most importantly when Shepard goes to save Joker, their is a mass effect field in the doorway; blocking the vacuum of space from the interior of the ship. It's not inconceivable that their could be mass effect fields around the crucible/catalyst as well working in similar fashion. We also know that the crucible is advanced technology (it's mentioned many times in the game that the people building it don't exactly understand how it works). So it wouldn't be entirely impossible for the mass effect fields to appear absolutely invisible either.



Man that was all way longer than I planned. But in any case your video is pretty good in that it gets down the most crucial aspects. I would also like to say it'd be better if you choose a more impartial stance with your video, in the sense you should be relaying what most people agree with.

[GOODKyle]

TcomJ wrote...

Sorry, indoctrination assumption is just a really bad sorry ass wishful thinking. The kid said that Shep wasn't being control and he can control the reapers, synthesis or destroy them. That's the reason why the illusive man will never succeed.

So you believe the "king of all reapers" and what he says. If you're going to speak badly about this theory do it wisely. 

[Mr.Pink]

DirectorStormchaser1 wrote...

Look behind you when you get hit by laser beam. 3 trees from Dream Seuence which were not there when running down the hill.

Unlimited ammo and no overheat in firearm.

Illusive Man has firearm appear from thin air. When all firearms are always shown on body or in hand on all NPCs.

Catalyst " I control the Reapers". Harbinger is the one that "Controls the Reapers".

Shepherd's implants Reaper Tech.

And, the camera moves uphill to where Shepherd got hit by a laser and breaths.

After all Mass Effect 1 Eden Prime survivors when the ship landed it emitted some signal that just bore into my head.

Now for the choices. You are all going to learn Psychology 101 about dreams. Dreams are always seen in reverse. So if you have Red being Renegade in dream world or Shepherd being indoctrinated Red would be Paragon. Then Blue being Paragon and in dream world Blue being Renegade. And, the third choice Green, that would be the choice Saren probably chose when being indoctrinated.

The choices are if Shepherd gets indoctrinated or not. Which would end the Shepherd storyline. because this is not a war which could be won overnight, but over 100 years.

Mass Effect 3 ended Shepherd's Legacy. This war there will be many Legends coming out. And, a new Legend for Mass Effect 4. The war has just begun.

It is never said that Harbinger controls the Reapers. Harbinger is the oldest and largest Reaper, but we know that each Reaper Destroyer or Capital Ship is a sentient machine/organic construct. It's almost like saying "President(insert name here) controls all humans." Each Reaper is a seperate construct, and not controlled by the others. 

[balance5050]

mavzn wrote...

Vallinn wrote...

 I'd also like to add a little tidbit to this theory.

Go into the in-game Codex to the 'Indoctrination' entry. In the second paragraph there's a sentence that goes as follows: "As time passes, they have feelings of 'being watched' and hallucinations of 'ghostly presences'..".

Now go find some videos of the Dream sequences that Shepard undergoes throughout the game and watch them in order ( there's 3 of them ).

In the first sequence, Shepard is just following the boy - nothing special. In the second, while Shepard is trying to reach the child there are black, slightly humanoid 'shadows' that start to appear ( 'Ghostly presences' ). Now to the third, look how many are filling the 'Dream'... They are everywhere.

Coincidence? I think not.

**Spoilers**



Possible, but even as late as Thessia, the Prothean VI does not detect the taint of indoctrination on Shep + co... where as it notes it as soon as KL appears.

That's because he isn't indoctrinated yet, if he was he would have been dead/betrayed his friends/sided with TIM. Indoctrination has been a part of Mass Effect since day 1, you've been in control of Shepard since day 1. You would never willingly become indoctrinated the way Saren and TIM do because for you, the reapers are the greatest enemy.

Shepard would have to be fooled into it... YOU would have to fooled into it.

[AlterEgo3561]

If it does turn out to be true I feel it would be one of the most amazing tests of societal behavior, I mean think about it, if Synthesis and control are indoctrination and destroy was breaking free it would be an awesome study to see how many people were willing to accept those endings when told they are peaceful and how many refused and rebelled against them choosing instead to destroy everything.

[STAG IRONHIDE]

GOODKyle wrote...

STAG IRONHIDE wrote...

I think you're just grasping for straws because the ending was garbage.

If that was their intended ending, they would've made it clear. Anything past this point is a retcon looking to make DLC money, not clever writing or story telling.

True. As one person commented on the video...either I'm a genius for realizing all this or the ending was such crap that my evidence fits all the plot holes lol

I really just hope it's the latter, as sad as it is to say that

These boards and the internet will EXPLODE when they announce a new ending. I hope they just leave it alone now..

[mackan__s]

rev0n wrote...

I just went back and did the mission again with Destroy choice. AND when you wake and on London YOU CAN HEAR REAPERS STILL FIGHTING. Oh my god.. Just turn up the volume. (Or maybe it was me wishing this was true )

He passed out in the beginning intro, in that explotion;) maybe he started dreaming there?

[eddieoctane]

Sereaph502 wrote...
1. The ending is a dream and bioware is going to go "HAHAH, gotcha!  Now here's the REAL ending for $10!" which will make everyone even more pissed off.

AT this point, we can only hope...

[Metko]

Well i sure hope its that...cuz ending really sucked.
In that youtube movie, he is right but he forgat to add the pistol, you can just keep firing it no need to reload or anything, if it was real and not a dream/indoctrination how could you posible shoot a gun without reloading new thermal clips in it?

[balance5050]

Mr.Pink wrote...

DirectorStormchaser1 wrote...

Look behind you when you get hit by laser beam. 3 trees from Dream Seuence which were not there when running down the hill.

Unlimited ammo and no overheat in firearm.

Illusive Man has firearm appear from thin air. When all firearms are always shown on body or in hand on all NPCs.

Catalyst " I control the Reapers". Harbinger is the one that "Controls the Reapers".

Shepherd's implants Reaper Tech.

And, the camera moves uphill to where Shepherd got hit by a laser and breaths.

After all Mass Effect 1 Eden Prime survivors when the ship landed it emitted some signal that just bore into my head.

Now for the choices. You are all going to learn Psychology 101 about dreams. Dreams are always seen in reverse. So if you have Red being Renegade in dream world or Shepherd being indoctrinated Red would be Paragon. Then Blue being Paragon and in dream world Blue being Renegade. And, the third choice Green, that would be the choice Saren probably chose when being indoctrinated.

The choices are if Shepherd gets indoctrinated or not. Which would end the Shepherd storyline. because this is not a war which could be won overnight, but over 100 years.

Mass Effect 3 ended Shepherd's Legacy. This war there will be many Legends coming out. And, a new Legend for Mass Effect 4. The war has just begun.

It is never said that Harbinger controls the Reapers. Harbinger is the oldest and largest Reaper, but we know that each Reaper Destroyer or Capital Ship is a sentient machine/organic construct. It's almost like saying "President(insert name here) controls all humans." Each Reaper is a seperate construct, and not controlled by the others. 

Going by this logic, how is it possible for all the reapers to heed Shepards command to leave in the "control" ending? Space magic is not an acceptable answer....

Also can anyone else point out other examples of space magic anywhere in Mass Effect, by that I mean thing s that don't make sense, I always like how this series backed things up with totally legit sounding lore. This is science fiction not F***ing Star Jammers.

[Ieldra]

Nefelius wrote...
All this "indoctrination" conspiracy theories are nothing but desperate wishful thinking. I mean come on how the fact that "kid disappeared the second u shoot that thing" proves this is a dream. Come on.

This.

[mawdudi]

as somebody already pointed out, it's probably just lazy programming than some super secret ending...

[rvgifford]

TcomJ wrote...
Sorry, indoctrination assumption is just a really bad sorry ass wishful thinking. The kid said that Shep wasn't being control and he can control the reapers, synthesis or destroy them. That's the reason why the illusive man will never succeed.

Yes, but if you were indoctrinated, wouldn't an indoctrination induced delusional kid thing tell you exactly that, that you weren't indoctrinated? The whole idea of indoctrination is that you convince yourself you aren't indoctrinated, that whatever you are doing is your own choice, not the one being forced on you by the indoctrination.

The more I think about this way of explaining the current ending the more I believe it to be the case, the more I HAVE to believe it. It's the only explanation that makes any sense. A glimmer of faith in Bioware still flickers in my soul. They have created so many amazing stories, including this one up until the currently perceived crap ending, that I want to believe that this is an elaborate and amazingly written story that hasn't yet ended and the current end is just a giant ruse, a well orchestrated one that shows us what it would be like to be indoctrinated.

Otherwise, that little bit of faith dies, and an era of games that tell amazing interactive stories that evoke deep emotion dies with it. Well, not entirely true as the ending as is evokes pretty deep emotions . . . disdain, distrust . . . and other negative emotions I won't mention.

Modifié par rvgifford, 12 mars 2012 - 09:08 .

[STAG IRONHIDE]

eddieoctane wrote...

Sereaph502 wrote...
1. The ending is a dream and bioware is going to go "HAHAH, gotcha!  Now here's the REAL ending for $10!" which will make everyone even more pissed off.

AT this point, we can only hope...

I hope that is sarcasm...

Metko wrote...

if it was real and not a
dream/indoctrination how could you posible shoot a gun without reloading
new thermal clips in it?

That explains EVERYTHING! <_<


BTW don't you guys feel bad that you're putting more thought into it than Bioware did?

Modifié par STAG IRONHIDE, 12 mars 2012 - 09:12 .

[r36956]

TremulantOne wrote...

Imagine the end of Return of the Jedi ended with Luke being possibly killed by the Emperor and then the movie just ending. Now imagine 3 months later Lucas comes out and says "It wasn't the end! Go see the real 10 minute ending this summer for only 19.99!" Not the perfect metaphor but you can see my point.

This is however exactly what happened to Sherlock Holmes. Conan Doyle wanted to end the story and killed him in "Final Problem". British fans including Her Majesty the Queen demanded continuation and Sherlock Holmes came back. Just to mention.

Also, as far as I remember this ending with Shepard breathing under the stones is shown to only truly devoted players who gathered maximum of resources (more than 5K). This should mean something I hope.