138 réponses à ce sujet

[Espurr]

Here is the reason it's a bad idea to say that hypothetical ending DLC should be free: it's not free for them to make. And whether it should be free or not is irrelevant, because if they don't think anyone will pay for it they won't make it. Why? Because they have to pay people to make DLC. Perhaps I have a different perspective on this because I'm dating someone who works in the animation industry, but the amount of work and money that would go into a DLC is not something they can do when they'll be making no profit off it.

A patch or something to fix minor issues (ie: squadmates teleporting onto the Normandy, or the LI flashback issues)? That's something that could feasibly be done cheaply. Anything that would require recording more dialogue (actors do not work for cheap) or any sort of meaty content is going to need to have some sort of price on it to make it feasible.

Personally, I hate the endings. I think they completely drain the life out of the rest of the series. I would love Bioware to make a fix for it. But if they do? They are doing us a favor. Demanding that it be free is only going to hurt the chances of anything like this actually happening.

[Chaoswind]

You people are insane, you actually would pay for a better ending? you know that will seal the deal and forever and ever we will be screwed with terrible endings just to pay 20 extra bucks for a decent one...

You are what is wrong in the gaming community, is not companies like EA that try to take your money away, is gamers like you all that are willing to give the money away in the first place.

Have some ****ing dignity, I have not played the game yet (waiting for my damn CE to fly here), but if the endings are as terrible as people keep saying then I will end my relationship with EA as a loyal customer.

If you want to know about the "new" ending just search for the gameplay videos on youtube when they become available, you don't have to fork 10 more dollars to see the ending, you can see it for free, and lets be honest a new DLC ending wouldn't bring much content to this game.

Also who the heck said Bioware HAS to make a new ending?
Can't you just deny the existence of the terrible ending and imagine the ending on your own terms... what happened to imagination?  you know how many books I have read that have interesting plots and unsatisfiying endings? you know how easy is to use your own imagination to make one yourself?

Bioware gave you the lore and the codex, you know how several things work, heck you would make a better ending than them and it will be one that will satisfy you.

Modifié par Chaoswind, 12 mars 2012 - 06:33 .

[staindgrey]

batlin wrote...

staindgrey wrote...

That's because you're looking at it with a cause already in mind. The time and money needed to bring in VAs alone will be greater than bug testers, and that's not counting the rest of the staff they'd need to bring in. The key is bringing them back from outside sources when they've already moved onto other projects; bug testing would just be in-house with a smaller, already employed staff. Big difference.

Tough s***. Just because it would be too costly for them to rectify a mistake doesn't mean the consumer should reward them for having the mistake in the first place.

The ending itself has plot holes, yes, as does the rest of the game, and the rest of the series.

To the degree the ending creates? No. In fact, unless you're willing to accept that the ultimate lifeform is a complete idiot, absolutely nothing about the ending makes any sense whatsoever.

Alright. Well, I've given all my reasons. This debate is a lost cause.

I will simply say this... The elitist attitude is very unbecoming of you. You seem to have a bright mind, but your sense of value and customer entitlement is ruining your intent. Just some advice moving forward. I'm not expecting to change your mind; if you feel it isn't worthy of payment, don't pay for it. But I hope you at least see that people seeing it as a worthy investment aren't enablers; they have valid reasons. And I'm one of them; I'll pay for Bioware's service to me as a fan, should they choose to do it.

[Espurr]

Chaoswind wrote...

You people are insane, you actually would pay for a better ending? you know that will seal the deal and forever and ever we will be screwed with terrible endings just to pay 20 extra bucks for a decent one...

You are what is wrong in the gaming community, is not companies like EA that try to take your money away, is gamers like you all that are willing to give the money away in the first place.

Have some ****ing dignity, I have not played the game yet (waiting for my damn CE to fly here), but if the endings are as terrible as people keep saying then I will end my relationship with EA as a loyal customer.

If you want to know about the "new" ending just search for the gameplay videos on youtube when they become available, you don't have to fork 10 more dollars to see the ending, you can see it for free, and lets be honest a new DLC ending wouldn't bring much content to this game.

Yes, I would. And frankly, it's my business what I do with my money.

As I think someone said previously, I would be supporting their decision to take customer feedback and listen to what fans want.

If you think this means that all game in the future will intentionally **** over their players with terrible endings so that they'll pay for more... well I'm not sure what to say to you other than the fact that that flies in the face of basic business 101.

[IPLASTIKMAN]

Chaoswind wrote...

You people are insane, you actually would pay for a better ending? you know that will seal the deal and forever and ever we will be screwed with terrible endings just to pay 20 extra bucks for a decent one...

You are what is wrong in the gaming community, is not companies like EA that try to take your money away, is gamers like you all that are willing to give the money away in the first place.

Have some ****ing dignity, I have not played the game yet (waiting for my damn CE to fly here), but if the endings are as terrible as people keep saying then I will end my relationship with EA as a loyal customer.

If you want to know about the "new" ending just search for the gameplay videos on youtube when they become available, you don't have to fork 10 more dollars to see the ending, you can see it for free, and lets be honest a new DLC ending wouldn't bring much content to this game.

 
people aren't ridiculous for paying for ending dlc ,that's what u call stupidity, people asking for an ending because it wasn't to there liking is RIDICULOUS , just cuz u have a thought doesn't mean people should cater to you.  

[Shifty Assassin]

If it perfectly redeemed the trilogy then i would pay for it in a heartbeat.

[Chaoswind]

Like I said, I don't need Bioware to make me an ending, I am not a drone, I still have my imagination

[AlexMBrennan]

ToastPants, please do get off your one-dimensional horse. Arguing that this is simple matter of cost of making DLC vs DLC sales is silly. [Hint: Bioware spends quite a bit on advertising, community managers, etc despite no one physically paying Bioware to see those ads or videos. Why? Because it makes people buy their games. If Bioware needs to make ending DLC available for free to sell their games in the future they will do it]

If you think this means that all game in the future will intentionally **** over their players with terrible endings so that they'll pay for more... well I'm not sure what to say to you other than the fact that that flies in the face of basic business 101.

Why not? You've just demonstrated (or will have demonstrated by buying the DLC) that this strategy works.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 12 mars 2012 - 06:45 .

[Espurr]

Chaoswind wrote...

Like I said, I don't need Bioware to make me an ending, I am not a drone, I still have my imagination

So if that's the case, why are you even debating this topic? Clearly, what a facetious DLC you don't even want does or does not cost will not effect you in the slightest.

It's a little ridiculous how many people still think the hooplah surrounding the endings is because people didn't get a happy ending and/or exactly what they wanted.

[Devils-DIVISION]

I agree, ToastPants. We shouldn't have to pay for it. This is a complete betrayal of our trust we granted to BioWare. But then what are the chances that they will make it? It seems idle to talk about it, if unless BioWare admit the ending was disgraceful!

User, 'New Generation' - linked an alternate ending that would occur if Shep did not make any choice, a fantastic, engaging and pleasing read (and it took her a few days to write, whereas it took a BioWare team at least 2 years for the garbage we received):

http://www.fanfictio.../1/Ad_Infinitum

Now that would be an ending I could have been pleased with. Not an ending that featured three alternate coloured explosions.

[Espurr]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

ToastPants, please do get off your one-dimensional horse. Arguing that this is simple matter of cost of making DLC vs DLC sales is silly. [Hint: Bioware spends quite a bit on advertising, community managers, etc despite no one physically paying Bioware to see those ads or videos. Why? Because it makes people buy their games. If Bioware needs to make ending DLC available for free to sell their games in the future they will do it]

If you think this means that all game in the future will intentionally **** over their players with terrible endings so that they'll pay for more... well I'm not sure what to say to you other than the fact that that flies in the face of basic business 101.

Why not? You've just demonstrated (or will have demonstrated by buying the DLC) that this strategy works.

It's nice that you think that being realistic about the industry means being on a high horse. I never said I thought that in a perfect would they SHOULD charge for DLC, I'm just saying that it isn't going to happen. Also, the parallel you're drawing falls short because advertising does generate revenue. Giving away free content at a significant financial loss does not.

And no, I haven't. Not really. Though I guess you could spin it that way if you want. But if gaming companies as a whole actually start employing that as a model of business, the consumer base is going to catch on pretty damn fast.

[Chaoswind]

I think I am taking a look at the future of gaming in this forum and I don't like it one bit, well I still have my values and my morals, I won't judge any of you for your decision to claim a different ending because the ending wasn't to your liking, but hear me when I say that this is an insult to creativity and the profession of writers (soon people will ask J.K. Rowling to finish Harry Potter in a different way).

Endings are a HUGE deal in the world of books, an awesome ending to an awesome book is what turns people into loyal followers.

I will go back to my retro hole of reading books and playing old skool games until my copy gets here on Tuesday, this is honestly the second to last time I post in this forum until then.

Modifié par Chaoswind, 12 mars 2012 - 07:13 .

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Chaoswind wrote...

I think I am taking a look at the future of gaming in this forum and I don't like it one bit, well I still have my values and my morals, I won't judge any of you for your decision to claim a different ending because the ending wasn't to your liking, but hear me when I say that this is an insult to creativity and the profession of writers (soon people will ask J.K. Rowling to finish Harry Potter in a different way).

Endings are a HUGE deal in the world of books, an awesome ending to an awesome book is what turns people into loyal followers.

I will go back to my retro hole of reading books and playing old skool games until my copy gets here on Tuesday, this is honestly the last time I post in this forum until then.

That's fair. But then, the ending we got was an insult to logic, consistency, and good story-telling, so an eye for an eye and all that.

[Espurr]

Chaoswind wrote...

I think I am taking a look at the future of gaming in this forum and I don't like it one bit, well I still have my values and my morals, I won't judge any of you for your decision to claim a different ending because the ending wasn't to your liking, but hear me when I say that this is an insult to creativity and the profession of writers (soon people will ask J.K. Rowling to finish Harry Potter in a different way).

I have seen this argument multiple places, and I still think it's completely ridiculous to compare something like a book or a film with a video game whose major selling point (or at least one of them) is they player's ability to influence the story.

[Chaoswind]

ToastPants wrote...

Chaoswind wrote...

I think I am taking a look at the future of gaming in this forum and I don't like it one bit, well I still have my values and my morals, I won't judge any of you for your decision to claim a different ending because the ending wasn't to your liking, but hear me when I say that this is an insult to creativity and the profession of writers (soon people will ask J.K. Rowling to finish Harry Potter in a different way).

I have seen this argument multiple places, and I still think it's completely ridiculous to compare something like a book or a film with a video game whose major selling point (or at least one of them) is they player's ability to influence the story.

Choose Your Own Adventure.

I think you are wrong in your assesment, games are supposed to be FUN, I don't need to INFLUENCE the story, I just have to enjoy it.

There are several kinds of games in this medium, but saying stuff like the mayor selling point of games is the ability to influence the story is wrong, games challenge you to complete the history THAT is the major selling point, you are given certain ways to reach the goal, but in the end you either reach it or you don't.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Chaoswind wrote...

ToastPants wrote...

Chaoswind wrote...

I think I am taking a look at the future of gaming in this forum and I don't like it one bit, well I still have my values and my morals, I won't judge any of you for your decision to claim a different ending because the ending wasn't to your liking, but hear me when I say that this is an insult to creativity and the profession of writers (soon people will ask J.K. Rowling to finish Harry Potter in a different way).

I have seen this argument multiple places, and I still think it's completely ridiculous to compare something like a book or a film with a video game whose major selling point (or at least one of them) is they player's ability to influence the story.

Choose Your Own Adventure.

I think you are wrong in your assesment, games are supposed to be FUN, I don't need to INFLUENCE the story, I just have to enjoy it.

There are several kinds of games in this medium, but saying stuff like the mayor selling point of games is the ability to influence the story is wrong, games challenge you to complete the history THAT is the major selling point, you are given certain ways to reach the goal, but in the end you either reach it or you don't.

How is he wrong in his assessment? He considers influencing the direction of the story to be fun. This in fact has been one of Bioware's major selling points since the original Baldur's Gate and Mass Effect 3 was intended as the pinnacle of the experience with trilogy-spanning conflicts. Video games as a whole don't use this as a selling point. Mass Effect does.

[Espurr]

Chaoswind wrote...

ToastPants wrote...

Chaoswind wrote...

I think I am taking a look at the future of gaming in this forum and I don't like it one bit, well I still have my values and my morals, I won't judge any of you for your decision to claim a different ending because the ending wasn't to your liking, but hear me when I say that this is an insult to creativity and the profession of writers (soon people will ask J.K. Rowling to finish Harry Potter in a different way).

I have seen this argument multiple places, and I still think it's completely ridiculous to compare something like a book or a film with a video game whose major selling point (or at least one of them) is they player's ability to influence the story.

Choose Your Own Adventure.

I think you are wrong in your assesment, games are supposed to be FUN, I don't need to INFLUENCE the story, I just have to enjoy it.

There are several kinds of games in this medium, but saying stuff like the mayor selling point of games is the ability to influence the story is wrong, games challenge you to complete the history THAT is the major selling point, you are given certain ways to reach the goal, but in the end you either reach it or you don't.

I'm not referring to games in general. I'm not even referring to RPGs in general. I'm referring to this game specifically. Mass Effect has been (throughout all it's installments) advertised as a game where you get to live your own story how you choose and decide how it ends. Obviously, there are constraints to this. However, the argument people are presenting isn't even "OMG I didn't get the ending I want CHANGE IT NOW." People are disappointed because they feel the endings are stupidly similar (when we were promised vast variations), are poorly written and full of plot holes, and negate the tone and theme of previous games. 

Again, this is all a matter of opinion (thought seemingly a wide-spread one), but I think you are misunderstanding people's motivations.

[Chaoswind]

yeah I was quick to read and missed the whole point of his post, ME selling point is the ability to influence the story, not the selling point of games in general,

what can I say?

You are free to demand a new ending, you are free to pay for it.

I'll just watch it in youtube (oh remember to upload it), and if I don't like that ending either then I'll just use my own imagination to write a fanfic, with the ending I would like to have.

The more you read, the more you have to get used to terrible endings, heck of all the books/manga/games I have read/played only a low % have endings that I liked, beyond that is my job to end them in my own terms, or use my knowledge to the best of my ability to close the holes.

Heck I may only be disagreing with you all because I have no knowledge of how terrible the endings are, but I plan to keep it that way, so cya

Modifié par Chaoswind, 12 mars 2012 - 07:26 .

[young fox]

batlin wrote...

staindgrey wrote...

That's nice.

I'll pay for it.

Kidroz wrote...

I would pay for it lol

If people like you guys didn't support practices like this, we may have had decent endings to begin with.

Exactly this. The only reason we got this ending was because BioWare knew they could squeeze out more money from us when they decide to release an alternate ending DLC.

Do you honestly think this got past QA without a few people complaining about it? 

[DemGeth]

Paying money for a clip is pretty crazy I think.


Maybe it's just me.

[HKR148]

I have right to voice my opinion to the producers. I assume this forum is for the communications between the consumers and the producers of the Mass Effect 3. Therefore I am simply voicing my displeasure at the product I've received and giving them conditions on what term I will continue to purchase the product, and that being them introducing DLC that will do something about the terrible endings.

Otherwise the deal is off, and I will simply move on just like I've done to Maxis, EA Sports and Activision products. It is my money and it is my freedom to use however I can.

However I expect myself and the rest of the discontent fans to voice their opinion in civil manners and do their best to make rational and reasonable arguments to why the ramification is necessary. One thing that remains highly true is that while the ending DLC (should they make it) should be free from an ethical point of view, realistically we should all understand that that's unlikely to happen. It is not possible to condone their action if they do make it purchaseable but it would be nothing but detrimental to the possibility of them responding to us. The best course of action we should take is make it known to both EA and Bioware that their recent debacles with DLC and the terrible story resolution was simply unacceptable and they must raise their standard.

I do not believe that anything I am asking is immature or unreasonable.

Modifié par HKR148, 12 mars 2012 - 08:04 .

[TornadoADV]

Broken Steel, people, that's all that needs to be said on this farce.

[batlin]

TornadoADV wrote...

Broken Steel, people, that's all that needs to be said on this farce.

Broken Steel didn't change the ending. All it did was allow you to play AFTER the end quest and add a whole new quest on top of it. The original ending of Fallout 3 wasn't bad, nor was it chock-full of plot holes.

[AnoraBlows]

Sorry, but filling in plot holes is not additional content. It is called patching. If there are bugs in a game's mechanic, we get patches. Plot holes are equivalent to bugs in the story so they should also be patched out. As for endings, that's a whole different matter. If they put a lot of effort into the endings and they had not planned for doing so before the game was released, then it's a maybe whether they should release this DLC as paid. If they had planned for it all along or if it isn't anything substantial, then it should be free.