GM Jaken wrote...
This entire thread is people reaching for straws. Can't we all bury what's dead and hug it out?
TheRealMithril wrote...
The 'starchild' is just a psychological representation of Shepards own memories. The catalyst doesn't have any form. Take the blue pill and Shepard replaces his position. Ironically, this is the only path to keep the ME universe as is, minus the relays. Synergy, now that path is just botched up beyond any kind of comment. Take the red pill and destroy all AI's. Aside from *that* being complete bull****, as a new robot can be built the very next day. The relays are as as important to the ME universe as the Force is to Star Wars. It is an identifying factor. Take it away and you have another, completely different, science fiction story. That's all well and good, except that I want to play Mass Effect.
killnoob wrote...
GreyhameBioware wrote...
killnoob wrote...
Once again, without a proper epilogue, this is all assumption, whether it's a new civilization or not.
Let's stick to what we do know:
1. The stargazer and the kid appear to be human and speak english
2. A significant amount of time has passed
3. Space travelling is possible/will be possible soon
Anything else is pure speculations.
However, their existence can tell us that even though the mass relays are done, people adopted and survived. Whether it's a new generation of people, or it's ME generation of people, the galaxy is doing fine.
Life goes on. But that doesn't mean you didn't destroy galactic civilization as you knew it for that to happen, just means the survivors eventually got things back in order.
It also doesn't mean the galactic civilization is destroyed.
Read the highlights again.
Whether it's old civilization, or new civilization, the galaxy moved on.
So the relays getting destroyed really didn't make as big an impact as everyone else made them out to be, if there are survivors and they got things back in order.
Modifié par GreyhameBioware, 12 mars 2012 - 07:00 .
killnoob wrote...
When you're writing fiction
When you use a deus ex machina such as the Crucible
You cannot have a happy ending.
There needs to be sacrifices.
I agree with you, the endings need to have more variety.
But is the galaxy really that screwed base on the 'facts' you've collected?
The stargazer disagree.
Modifié par Arduous Wolf, 12 mars 2012 - 07:10 .
GreyhameBioware wrote...
killnoob wrote...
GreyhameBioware wrote...
killnoob wrote...
Once again, without a proper epilogue, this is all assumption, whether it's a new civilization or not.
Let's stick to what we do know:
1. The stargazer and the kid appear to be human and speak english
2. A significant amount of time has passed
3. Space travelling is possible/will be possible soon
Anything else is pure speculations.
However, their existence can tell us that even though the mass relays are done, people adopted and survived. Whether it's a new generation of people, or it's ME generation of people, the galaxy is doing fine.
Life goes on. But that doesn't mean you didn't destroy galactic civilization as you knew it for that to happen, just means the survivors eventually got things back in order.
It also doesn't mean the galactic civilization is destroyed.
Read the highlights again.
Whether it's old civilization, or new civilization, the galaxy moved on.
So the relays getting destroyed really didn't make as big an impact as everyone else made them out to be, if there are survivors and they got things back in order.
It's great that one small pocket of the galaxy that doesn't even have space travel is doing fine. That tells us nothign about how the rest of the space faring galaxy did when their main form of travel, galatic trade, and other various needed thing to keep their society going was destroyed. Do we know how bad it was? No, but to assume that everythign ended okay because a more primitive planet is doing okay many year later is rather stupid.
Arduous Wolf wrote...
killnoob wrote...
When you're writing fiction
When you use a deus ex machina such as the Crucible
You cannot have a happy ending.
There needs to be sacrifices.
I agree with you, the endings need to have more variety.
But is the galaxy really that screwed base on the 'facts' you've collected?
The stargazer disagree.
I consider the sacrifices of the millions that died during the reaper invations, the soliders that gave there lifes in battle and the people on the citidal to be worthy of a happy ending for the remains of the galaxy. Don't get me wrong I love downer and bittersweet endings but these just didn't cut it. Have you ever played Drakengard? That game had four downers and one bittersweet I loved them all because the game really wasn't made for happy endings. I think the reason I'm not behide these endings (apart from their faults) is because there was room for something a little happier.
And to clarify my position on the endings. I don't think the Galaxy as a whole is screwed, but the people currently living within it are pretty much stuck up a creek without a paddle.
Tombfyre09 wrote...
Time for ME intro sequence... .
http://www.youtube.c...27IdajHUU#t=35s
I always felt the relays were the key to the this whole universe. With their destruction, to me that means I just destroyed a whole civilization.
CombatWings11 wrote...
This forum topic is actually one I wanted to bring up myself. Glad someone else started it.
If the wonderful endings so lovingly crafted by our good friends at BioWare (a hurricane of sarcasm implied here) end up remaining as cannon, then a sustainable galactic community would indeed remain nearly impossible. If you remember any of the details from the first Mass Effect game, they state that without the relays, even with FTL travel, getting anywhere of significant distance would take decades to centuries. So not only does Shepard get shred to pieces in the end, but his choices also wipe out all possibilities for a united galatic community for tens of thousands of years... Fun stuff, right?
That does, however, bring into question the other options of different modes of inter-galactic travel. Maybe asari and solarian scientists were working on other ways to traverse the galaxy pre-reaper invasion, such as access to sophisticated wormhole networks (kind of cliche at this point, but reliable), some kind of transdimentional gate system, the creation of inexplicably advanced FTL drives available for all starships, or the successful replication of mass relay technology achieved in secret. Whatever the case, these possibilites provide the chance for the Mass Effect universe to continue on instead of being thrown out the window.
Of course, like I said, this would all only hold true as conjecture if the endings we got with ME3 remain as "fact" (and i'm sure as hell hoping they don't).
Modifié par Mixon, 12 mars 2012 - 07:19 .
killnoob wrote...
TheRealMithril wrote...
The 'starchild' is just a psychological representation of Shepards own memories. The catalyst doesn't have any form. Take the blue pill and Shepard replaces his position. Ironically, this is the only path to keep the ME universe as is, minus the relays. Synergy, now that path is just botched up beyond any kind of comment. Take the red pill and destroy all AI's. Aside from *that* being complete bull****, as a new robot can be built the very next day. The relays are as as important to the ME universe as the Force is to Star Wars. It is an identifying factor. Take it away and you have another, completely different, science fiction story. That's all well and good, except that I want to play Mass Effect.
Not talking about the starchild, I'm talking about the epilogue, where the stargazer talks to his grandson.
Go look it up on youtube, its there.
killnoob wrote...
Horizonhill wrote...
killnoob wrote...
Horizonhill wrote...
If we go by the logic of the game then apparently everyone knows English. That being said, it would also seem like a fairly foolish idea to have an epilogue cutscene in a foreign language and it's open to debate that it's in English entirely for the sake of convenience of the players.
I understand that.
But you're saying it's an entire new civilization that has taken over.
The cutscene of the stargazer shows the figure of a human holding the hand of a child.
Of course you can argue that they're far away and we can't really tell.
But don't you think that's a bit 'trying to pick bones from an egg"?
If bioware wants you to think they're from a new civilization they'd paint the figure differently.
It would be an entirely new civilization. If a significant length of time has passed then the civilization that grew around the Mass Relays would have disappeared and new civilizations would have arisen. Roman civilization is was significantly different from the Chinese civilization, yet they were both human.
Once again, without a proper epilogue, this is all assumption, whether it's a new civilization or not.
Let's stick to what we do know:
1. The stargazer and the kid appear to be human and speak english
2. A significant amount of time has passed
3. Space travelling is possible/will be possible soon
Anything else is pure speculations.
However, their existence can tell us that even though the mass relays are done, people adopted and survived. Whether it's a new generation of people, or it's ME generation of people, the galaxy is doing fine.
You can think there's a big brutal bloody battle right in the middle.
But the end result is the same.
The stargazer is telling a kid the story about ME in a relaxed manner, and they're doing fine.
killnoob wrote...
1. You destroy the synethetics and mass relays along with the reapers. Your shepard makes it out alive. The entire galaxy focus on getting relays back online/replicating the relays and trying to save as many people as possible, because obviously losing the relays are going to have a big impact. However, everyone is generally happy and the most important thing is Shepard lives.
2. You control the reapers and let the mass relays stay intact. Your shepard dies and become the consciousness of the reapers. Instead of machine of mass destructions the reapers become the new guardians of the galaxy.
killnoob wrote...
CombatWings11 wrote...
This forum topic is actually one I wanted to bring up myself. Glad someone else started it.
If the wonderful endings so lovingly crafted by our good friends at BioWare (a hurricane of sarcasm implied here) end up remaining as cannon, then a sustainable galactic community would indeed remain nearly impossible. If you remember any of the details from the first Mass Effect game, they state that without the relays, even with FTL travel, getting anywhere of significant distance would take decades to centuries. So not only does Shepard get shred to pieces in the end, but his choices also wipe out all possibilities for a united galatic community for tens of thousands of years... Fun stuff, right?
That does, however, bring into question the other options of different modes of inter-galactic travel. Maybe asari and solarian scientists were working on other ways to traverse the galaxy pre-reaper invasion, such as access to sophisticated wormhole networks (kind of cliche at this point, but reliable), some kind of transdimentional gate system, the creation of inexplicably advanced FTL drives available for all starships, or the successful replication of mass relay technology achieved in secret. Whatever the case, these possibilites provide the chance for the Mass Effect universe to continue on instead of being thrown out the window.
Of course, like I said, this would all only hold true as conjecture if the endings we got with ME3 remain as "fact" (and i'm sure as hell hoping they don't).
Key word: galactic community.
That much I can agree on. I don't believe, however, that every single race is fked without the relays.
Without the relays, it'd set everyone back for a bout 10k years before they find a way to get back into the good old days where everyone hang around on the citadel.
But that does not mean every civilization is fked.
killnoob wrote...
Harorrd wrote...
Did you play Me2 arrival?
Do you know what happends when a relay is desstroyed?
The entire system is destroyed in a super nova. and it was this super nova that destroyed the normandy
I'm perfectly willing to accept the destruction of the relays.
I'm also quite happy to accept relay not destroying a star system.
For all we know the crucible used up the relays' energy, thus destroying it without apparent explosions. It's not something that's as unbelievable as synthesis.
I just don't understand why all three endings result the same thing and has almost the same end sequence.
I also dont understand why normandy has to crashland on some random planet.
Why?
Not only it doesn't bring the game any catharsis, but it's so completely unnecessary.
ItsFreakinJesus wrote...
Those were Reapers,, not standard ships. Without Relays, there's no way to cross the galaxy in any reasonable amount of time, and there's no way that anyone would be able to remake or rebuild the Relay network in any reasonable amount of time. Galactic civilization as it is will collapse. Even worse, the franchise as it stands now can't continue in any significant shape or form without becoming something other than Mass Effect, and that's lame.
killnoob wrote...
But that does not mean every civilization is fked.
Modifié par Tombfyre09, 12 mars 2012 - 09:14 .
killnoob wrote...
GreyhameBioware wrote...
killnoob wrote...
Once again, without a proper epilogue, this is all assumption, whether it's a new civilization or not.
Let's stick to what we do know:
1. The stargazer and the kid appear to be human and speak english
2. A significant amount of time has passed
3. Space travelling is possible/will be possible soon
Anything else is pure speculations.
However, their existence can tell us that even though the mass relays are done, people adopted and survived. Whether it's a new generation of people, or it's ME generation of people, the galaxy is doing fine.
Life goes on. But that doesn't mean you didn't destroy galactic civilization as you knew it for that to happen, just means the survivors eventually got things back in order.
It also doesn't mean the galactic civilization is destroyed.
Read the highlights again.
Whether it's old civilization, or new civilization, the galaxy moved on.
So the relays getting destroyed really didn't make as big an impact as everyone else made them out to be, if there are survivors and they got things back in order.
GholaHalleck wrote...
killnoob wrote...
GreyhameBioware wrote...
killnoob wrote...
Once again, without a proper epilogue, this is all assumption, whether it's a new civilization or not.
Let's stick to what we do know:
1. The stargazer and the kid appear to be human and speak english
2. A significant amount of time has passed
3. Space travelling is possible/will be possible soon
Anything else is pure speculations.
However, their existence can tell us that even though the mass relays are done, people adopted and survived. Whether it's a new generation of people, or it's ME generation of people, the galaxy is doing fine.
Life goes on. But that doesn't mean you didn't destroy galactic civilization as you knew it for that to happen, just means the survivors eventually got things back in order.
It also doesn't mean the galactic civilization is destroyed.
Read the highlights again.
Whether it's old civilization, or new civilization, the galaxy moved on.
So the relays getting destroyed really didn't make as big an impact as everyone else made them out to be, if there are survivors and they got things back in order.
that's like saying "Oh it's fine that the Plauge took 1/4th of the human population of the Earth and tech fell two grades, because 500+ years later, everythings okay again!"
When it's not, entire peoples fell, nations withered and died, beliefs were replaced and the world as it was known was irrivocalbly changed. It's NOT the same place it was before that level or death took it's tool. and while things got better, the things that made that era what it was, the bonds that held them together, were never coming back.
There will not be another citidel, there'll never be another united galaxy. It'll be shattered, tiny fiefdoms vying for control for generations, until space travel is impossible due to decay in tech.
Every planet starts over, and with that starting over, everything changes. sure, tehy can change for the better. tehy could change in great and wonderful ways.
But that house will still never be built for Tali.
You'll never share a drink with Garrus.
Or come back to Liara.
Even Earth, the driving force for shepard this entire game, barring some sort of mircale, is going to wind up a smoking crator either via debris, or survival fighting by all of the stranded speicies. the very things we were fighting for, are destroyed.
But the galaxy goes on.
But you know what? It would have gone on even if we failed. The Reapers only kill advanced speicies. Humans, turians salarians and asari were all around for the death of the Protheans. Everyone died anyway, only now there's nothing tying the galaxy together. There's no relays. No way to move to other habitible systems other then blind luck.
So yeah. we made things WORSE. Great.
Rocktel wrote...
A lot of people seem to be yelling about this. But it's just not the case. The Reapers were able to spread from where the Alpha Relay used to be without the use of a Mass Relay. Travel without Relays is very possible, its just slower. It'll just take a couple years to cross the galaxy now until new relays can be built.
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