490 réponses à ce sujet

[clonedoriginzero]

rorako wrote...

Rocktel wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

It's pretty clear that the direction they want to take the series is to possibly not have Mass Relays at all, perhaps new technology will be discovered since people can't rely on Reaper tech anymore; which is a good thing. I've watched enough sci-fi to know that Mass Relays aren't the be all, end all of space travel theory so complaining that there are no other viable options is just silly.

This.

And about the fuel thing again, they can harvest fuel from planets along the way, they have the tech for it. The Quarian fleet mines and refines its ouwn fuel, Tali says so.

Planets that were ravaged by Reapers, not to mention they need an initial fuel source, which the only one in the Sol System is Earth.  I'm assuming the final battle put them nearly on empty, and I doubt Earth has enough fuel for eight fleets...not to mention the Reapers probably harvested the fuel workers, the oil rigs all got destroyed...

Face it.  It's a damning situation, logically.

well they used an incomplete dead reaper core to power the crucible that you steal from cerberus.
what does earth suddenly have TONS of? dead reapers (assuming you picked destroy ending).
now you got all sorts of crazy power. as the reaper tech didn't blow up or anything it just sorta hit a kill switch that killed them.

the reaper cores should be operational.

[Genera1Nemesis]

eddieoctane wrote...

Harorrd wrote...

Did you play Me2 arrival?
Do you know what happends when a relay is desstroyed?
The entire system is destroyed in a super nova. and it was this super nova that destroyed the normandy

Exactly. Every inhabited planetary system with a relay is now dust. Most of the habitable planets (and all the homeworlds) were in the same system as a relay. If the relays go "boom", most civilization would fizzle out in the process.

One last time on this, you smashed an asteroid into the relay in the Arrival. That's pretty different than just self-destructing them.

[Kmead15]

rorako wrote...

Rocktel wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

It's pretty clear that the direction they want to take the series is to possibly not have Mass Relays at all, perhaps new technology will be discovered since people can't rely on Reaper tech anymore; which is a good thing. I've watched enough sci-fi to know that Mass Relays aren't the be all, end all of space travel theory so complaining that there are no other viable options is just silly.

This.

And about the fuel thing again, they can harvest fuel from planets along the way, they have the tech for it. The Quarian fleet mines and refines its ouwn fuel, Tali says so.

Planets that were ravaged by Reapers, not to mention they need an initial fuel source, which the only one in the Sol System is Earth.  I'm assuming the final battle put them nearly on empty, and I doubt Earth has enough fuel for eight fleets...not to mention the Reapers probably harvested the fuel workers, the oil rigs all got destroyed...

Face it.  It's a damning situation, logically.

Why would the final battle put them on empty? They used the relay to get in.

[Rocktel]

rorako wrote...

Rocktel wrote...

And about the fuel thing again, they can harvest fuel from planets along the way, they have the tech for it. The Quarian fleet mines and refines its ouwn fuel, Tali says so.

And actually I remember there being a fuel depot in almost every system in ME3, plus we know from ME2 you can just burn basic minerals too.

What game were you playing?  There were barely any fuel depots in ME3...

There were tons of them. THey were destroyed but they were still there.

[The Angry One]

killnoob wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

The Quarians are going to have fuel and supplies.
Fuel and supplies everyone else is going to want. Especially the Turians who are going to need food that Sol can't provide.

So here's the future of Mass Effect folks! A desperate war among the survivors for basic necessities. Think Fallout only in space.

Again, you're assuming the worst.

The galaxy has already proven they're willing to stand together no matter what.

Even facing an entire race of macines of galactic destruction they are still willing to fight and die together as allies.

You think something like limited fuels are going to break the alliance apart?

And that's assuming they didn't bring enough rations or fuels when they come to earth, which, would be ridiculous to assume.

Cheer the hell up mate.

The ending still suck, yes, but I'm pretty damn sure most would make it back home alive.

Pretty damn sure.

They came together on the word and charisma of Commander Shepard.
The same Shepard who's now condemned them to exile over a dead world.

And look at the endings.

Destroy - Betrayal. Geth and all their VIs and advanced tech destroyed. What is that going to do to the Quarian's who's suits were hosting Geth processes?

Control - Betrayal. Shepard becomes master Reaper and they all fly away. Reapers still exist. Relays do not. Worst of all worlds. Well except that the Citadel and it's population will be spared, as will Earth.

Synthesis - Betrayal. A fusion with machines that nobody wanted. Now you have the added bonus of a panicked population not knowing what the hell was done to them.

[killnoob]

rorako wrote...

Rocktel wrote...

And about the fuel thing again, they can harvest fuel from planets along the way, they have the tech for it. The Quarian fleet mines and refines its ouwn fuel, Tali says so.

And actually I remember there being a fuel depot in almost every system in ME3, plus we know from ME2 you can just burn basic minerals too.

What game were you playing?  There were barely any fuel depots in ME3...

Trust me there are acutally quite a few.

Not as many as ME2, but still quite a few.

[Asnine112]

@ people saying you can just ftl your way home:

You are wrong. Think of it this way. Assuming ALL the fuel depot's were NOT destroyed, without the relays you still couldn't get anywhere. It took almost an entire tank of fuel in the game to travel around a LOCAL cluster, much less from, say, where the Citadel was to the nearest relay point.


Seriously, think about it. Your arguments make no sense.

[Rocktel]

clonedoriginzero wrote...
well they used an incomplete dead reaper core to power the crucible that you steal from cerberus.
what does earth suddenly have TONS of? dead reapers (assuming you picked destroy ending).
now you got all sorts of crazy power. as the reaper tech didn't blow up or anything it just sorta hit a kill switch that killed them.

the reaper cores should be operational.

Actually this is a very good point. In fact even if you didn't pick the destroy ending several reapers were still blown up by the fleets.

[Mahrac]

killnoob wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Alsuras wrote...

Also it's worth noting that ships can't travel indefinitley at FTL speeds because they need to discharge their drive cores periodically, which requires a nearby planetary body. The risk of not reaching one in time would be too great.

Dude, on average there's 4 light years between each neighboring star in the galaxy - 0,8 light years between stars in the core. An average ship can go 50 light years before needing to discharge. There's no "risk" of reaching one in time.

Seriously, if you people just read the damn lore, you wouldn't have these stupid questions in the first place.

Except there are no fuel lines, just a - destroyed - depot in every inhabited system. Also, most clusters are unihabited as relays didn't aproach them, meaning most stars didn't have fule depots to begin with. They could make the trip, in theory, but it would take years and they would be dead in the water long before they could refuel

Facepalm.

Do you see relays destroying the fuel depot? No.

Did you use fuel depot to travel in ME3? Yes.

just because relays are destroyed that don't mean all the planets are destroyed and abandoned.

Just because reaper conquered a lot of planets that don't mean they took all our fuels.

Connect the dot please?

scaning for war assets in system reveals (A LOT) of destroyed fuel depots. Only systems still under your control - Palaven, Sur'Kesh, and Tuchanka come to mind - have working depots. And while planets may not be destroyed, shokwaves you can see while viewing the whole galaxy would not be harmless

Also, that v

Modifié par Mahrac, 12 mars 2012 - 03:07 .

[The Angry One]

killnoob wrote...

rorako wrote...

Rocktel wrote...

And about the fuel thing again, they can harvest fuel from planets along the way, they have the tech for it. The Quarian fleet mines and refines its ouwn fuel, Tali says so.

And actually I remember there being a fuel depot in almost every system in ME3, plus we know from ME2 you can just burn basic minerals too.

What game were you playing?  There were barely any fuel depots in ME3...

Trust me there are acutally quite a few.

Not as many as ME2, but still quite a few.

Fuel depots generally exist in the same systems as mass relays, for obvious reasons.
Even if you accept that a relay nova will somehow not devastate the system, it's still going to heavily damage structures in the vicinity. Structures like.. I don't know... a space station full of volatile fuel! Kaboom.

[vengerturtle]

And even if you could travel everywhere with FTL, that still discounts that many ships would run out of fuel before they got somewhere they could find more. Salvaging off destoryed fuel depots worked for one ship, but how many ships are gonna need more fuel? Especially if we're using FTL; eezo's one of the rarest minerals to find, and if you can't travel to the middle of nowhere thanks to the relays, you aren't gonna find much that hasn't already been mined already. And then you have to remember that there are many planets - like Omega, etc - that rely heavily on things like trade to sustain their populations, importing food/medicine etc for the mix of races that live on them. If it takes years and years to ship food, people starve. 

And I mean even if you ignore that, that's not taking into account the state of all these planets the Reapers attacked. Economies start collapsing, which usually leads to things like civil wars, etc. Plus, lots of these aliens are stuck in the Sol system because it would take years to reach their home planet only using FTL so they'd starve or run out of fuel before they'd got there so they wouldn't have a choice but to stay. So what is their only option? Settle on earth, where turians and quarians probably can't live cause there's no food they can eat? Where there might not be enough room for all of these fleets worth of aliens? And there's krogan down there as well who are now capable of having babies (if you cured them), and I don't doubt that they might one day decide that they want to rule the planet, since that's how krogan seem to like things. With how many humans got killed/taken/turned into Reapers, if we had to fight to keep control of our own planet, I don't know that we'd win. 

I can buy that the relays don't blow up entire systems when they explode, but that's not really the only problem the loss of the relays lays out. It's really the collapse of a very interconnected galactic system that's not prepared for it in the least. At the bare minimum, it's a very bad situation; it might not mean TOTAL doom but it's not pretty, either. I actually don't mind that; it's properly dark and shows how much potential damage the Reapers still did even if you destroyed them in the end, but yeah, destroying the relays was HUGE.

Modifié par missnicolec, 12 mars 2012 - 03:08 .

[Locutus_of_BORG]

rorako wrote...

Rocktel wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

It's pretty clear that the direction they want to take the series is to possibly not have Mass Relays at all, perhaps new technology will be discovered since people can't rely on Reaper tech anymore; which is a good thing. I've watched enough sci-fi to know that Mass Relays aren't the be all, end all of space travel theory so complaining that there are no other viable options is just silly.

This.

And about the fuel thing again, they can harvest fuel from planets along the way, they have the tech for it. The Quarian fleet mines and refines its ouwn fuel, Tali says so.

Planets that were ravaged by Reapers, not to mention they need an initial fuel source, which the only one in the Sol System is Earth.  I'm assuming the final battle put them nearly on empty, and I doubt Earth has enough fuel for eight fleets...not to mention the Reapers probably harvested the fuel workers, the oil rigs all got destroyed...

Face it.  It's a damning situation, logically.

This.

It's not that destroying the relays necessarily wipes out all life or anything like that (even in the case the blown relays take out whole star systems like the Arrival one did).  But the "Mass Effect Universe" is essentially destroyed, because everyone's been sent back into the stone age, so to speak. W/O the relays and w/o and eezo infrastructure, most worlds will likely have to revert to older, non-FTL, non-mass effect tech, with little chance of being able to rebuild a new relay network (no resources).

[rorako]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

rorako wrote...

Wrong. The Relays being destroyed does doom the galaxy.

Lets put it like this: how many fleets were at Earth if you did everything nearly perfectly? If you count the war assets you see, then the fleets include: All the Quarian fleets that can fight (a MASSIVE amount), at least four Human fleets, the Geth fleet (which is comparable in size of the Quarians), at least one Salarian fleet, Several Turian fleets, all the ground forces, and what's left of the Alliance ground forces. Not to mention the mercenaries you got from Aria...that's a LOT of people stuck in the Sol system.

Yes, you can use FTL drives to get back, but you'd need MASSIVE amounts of food and fuel for that journey. Is it possible? No, I don't think so, and this is why:

Now, the Sol system has one inhabitable planet: Earth. That's one planet that can sustain life and grow food. This planet was just utterly ravaged by the Reapers. Most likely their fuel and crops are down, food is scarce. There would probably be a food shortage for the humans, but now that they have to feed three times as many fleets? (not including the Geth, obviously) Sure, they can go to nearby systems...wait, those were ravaged by the Reapers, too.

Okay, fuel. They can just hop system to system, right?

Anyone else notice in the game that only CERTAIN systems had fuel depots? Not to mention Earth's fuel station probably got destroyed, and the machinery to create more probably got harvested by the Reapers.

Face it. The Galaxy is in a ****ty situation, even with the Reapers gone. By "saving" the galaxy, you've doomed hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands of people to die by starvation, vacuum if their ships run out of fuel mid-way to their destination...

But hey, the Reapers are gone, apparently. Maybe Bioware thought that was enough.

Sure, thousands, maybe millions will die but it is better than EVERONE dying because of the Reapers. And the galaxy is now free of the 'trap' technology that the Mass Relays were built to be, I'd say they are better off in the long run.

So, the "best" ending in the game results in hunderds of thousands of people dying within the Sol system of starvation?

I'm sorry, but as "realistic" as that is...I play video games to escape depressing real life.  I don't mind a "sad, but hopeful and semi-happy" ending, but an ending where the best outcome is starvation for thousands, maybe millions?

I get enough real life sadness from the media.

[Genera1Nemesis]

Asnine112 wrote...

@ people saying you can just ftl your way home:

You are wrong. Think of it this way. Assuming ALL the fuel depot's were NOT destroyed, without the relays you still couldn't get anywhere. It took almost an entire tank of fuel in the game to travel around a LOCAL cluster, much less from, say, where the Citadel was to the nearest relay point.


Seriously, think about it. Your arguments make no sense.

Your basing that off of a game mechanic and not the actual lore in the game.

[Kandon Arc]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Alsuras wrote...

Also it's worth noting that ships can't travel indefinitley at FTL speeds because they need to discharge their drive cores periodically, which requires a nearby planetary body. The risk of not reaching one in time would be too great.

Dude, on average there's 4 light years between each neighboring star in the galaxy - 0,8 light years between stars in the core. An average ship can go 50 light years before needing to discharge. There's no "risk" of reaching one in time.

Seriously, if you people just read the damn lore, you wouldn't have these stupid questions in the first place.

Except there are no fuel lines, just a - destroyed - depot in every inhabited system. Also, most clusters are unihabited as relays didn't aproach them, meaning most stars didn't have fule depots to begin with. They could make the trip, in theory, but it would take years and they would be dead in the water long before they could refuel

What about the Quarian fleet (assuming they were allies in your game) They lived in deep space for hundreds of years, i'm sure one can assume they had supply ships with more than enough fuel to get them at least half way across the galaxy.

No the Quarians are stated as going system to system harvesting resources and moving on (also pilgramages). Some systems even offered tribute so the Quarians wouldn't come to their system. They can't magic fuel out of their asses.

[Rocktel]

Asnine112 wrote...

@ people saying you can just ftl your way home:

You are wrong. Think of it this way. Assuming ALL the fuel depot's were NOT destroyed, without the relays you still couldn't get anywhere. It took almost an entire tank of fuel in the game to travel around a LOCAL cluster, much less from, say, where the Citadel was to the nearest relay point.


Seriously, think about it. Your arguments make no sense.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The tech to harvest fuel still exists.

[killnoob]

The Angry One wrote...

killnoob wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

The Quarians are going to have fuel and supplies.
Fuel and supplies everyone else is going to want. Especially the Turians who are going to need food that Sol can't provide.

So here's the future of Mass Effect folks! A desperate war among the survivors for basic necessities. Think Fallout only in space.

Again, you're assuming the worst.

The galaxy has already proven they're willing to stand together no matter what.

Even facing an entire race of macines of galactic destruction they are still willing to fight and die together as allies.

You think something like limited fuels are going to break the alliance apart?

And that's assuming they didn't bring enough rations or fuels when they come to earth, which, would be ridiculous to assume.

Cheer the hell up mate.

The ending still suck, yes, but I'm pretty damn sure most would make it back home alive.

Pretty damn sure.

They came together on the word and charisma of Commander Shepard.
The same Shepard who's now condemned them to exile over a dead world.

And look at the endings.

Destroy - Betrayal. Geth and all their VIs and advanced tech destroyed. What is that going to do to the Quarian's who's suits were hosting Geth processes?

Control - Betrayal. Shepard becomes master Reaper and they all fly away. Reapers still exist. Relays do not. Worst of all worlds. Well except that the Citadel and it's population will be spared, as will Earth.

Synthesis - Betrayal. A fusion with machines that nobody wanted. Now you have the added bonus of a panicked population not knowing what the hell was done to them.

I'll phrase this one more time.

The ending SUCKS.

But we're not talking about how gay the endings are here. We're talking about mass relay getting destroyed and limited fuels.  Dying from limited fuel is not gonna be their problem.

And if anything they should all be sharing that feeling of "We all got fked over by Shepard, we're in the same boat."

[Ulicus]

Arcian wrote...

Dude, on average there's 4 light years between each neighboring star in the galaxy - 0,8 light years between stars in the core. An average ship can go 50 light years before needing to discharge. There's no "risk" of reaching one in time.

Seriously, if you people just read the damn lore, you wouldn't have these stupid questions in the first place.

In fairness, the Codex says that the Mass Relays link locations that ships using conventional FTL drives would take "years or even centuries" to traverse. I don't think the destruction of the Relays doom civilisation... but it's not unreasonable to suppose that the aliens left in the Sol System are going to have to chart new systems and planets to settle.

Though the Reapers do have much better FTL drives and the solar system is now full either of  benevolent or Shepard-ised Reapers that could, *ahem*, shepherd the other species home or of brain dead Reaper carcasses that could be made use of, somehow.

EDIT: And I now see someone already brought this last point up. Don't mind me, then.

Modifié par Ulicus, 12 mars 2012 - 03:11 .

[The Angry One]

Rocktel wrote...

clonedoriginzero wrote...
well they used an incomplete dead reaper core to power the crucible that you steal from cerberus.
what does earth suddenly have TONS of? dead reapers (assuming you picked destroy ending).
now you got all sorts of crazy power. as the reaper tech didn't blow up or anything it just sorta hit a kill switch that killed them.

the reaper cores should be operational.

Actually this is a very good point. In fact even if you didn't pick the destroy ending several reapers were still blown up by the fleets.

This assumes that the Crucible beam hasn't fried the Reapers to the point that they're unsalvagable.

[Rawgrim]

We actually see the explosions on the galaxy map bit in the cutscene at the end. So yes. They are pretty damn big explosions. They take out entire systems, no question about it.

[Rocktel]

Rawgrim wrote...

We actually see the explosions on the galaxy map bit in the cutscene at the end. So yes. They are pretty damn big explosions. They take out entire systems, no question about it.

Wrong. Those are not explosions because they don't destroy earth in most of the endings. Its just the space magic.

[GreyhameBioware]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

GreyhameBioware wrote...

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

What about the Quarian fleet (assuming they were allies in your game) They lived in deep space for hundreds of years, i'm sure one can assume they had supply ships with more than enough fuel to get them at least half way across the galaxy.

One would assume that the Quarians would refuel at debots like everyone else that travels in space.  Just because they lived in space does not mean they have some space ship that has an endless supply of fuel.

I didn't say endless, but to assume there are zero alternatives is short sighted. I can list off probably ten different REAL theories on how to travel through space at great distances. Just because the galaxy is no longer pigeon holed into using Reaper tech doesn't mean they can't discover another way.

Well, there's no really obvious one.  If you did things right, you have an unprecidented amount of ship stuck on the Sol system, more than half of which are going to need to get fuel to travel home.  Most of those are warships as well, so most of them are not going to have the ability to grow food for themselves since they would not have needed it before with the galactic trade being run through the mass relay system.  The only ones who could survive the long trip back if they play their cards right and end up in places they can get fuel are the Quarians and the Geth.

Destroying the relays is not a good thing.  It's certainly not the end of galactic civilization, but imagine if something happens to todays world, and the only form of travel became horse and buggy again?  That's essentially what destroying the mass relays did.

[Kmead15]

Asnine112 wrote...

@ people saying you can just ftl your way home:

You are wrong. Think of it this way. Assuming ALL the fuel depot's were NOT destroyed, without the relays you still couldn't get anywhere. It took almost an entire tank of fuel in the game to travel around a LOCAL cluster, much less from, say, where the Citadel was to the nearest relay point.


Seriously, think about it. Your arguments make no sense.

Already addressed:

Arcian wrote...

Dude, on average there's 4 light years between each
neighboring star in the galaxy - 0,8 light years between stars in the
core. An average ship can go 50 light years before needing to discharge.
There's no "risk" of reaching one in time.

Seriously, if you people just read the damn lore, you wouldn't have these stupid questions in the first place.

Not to mention that if building an FTL that could travel the distance between relays was impossible, building the relay system in the first place would have been equally impossible.

[The Angry One]

Rocktel wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

We actually see the explosions on the galaxy map bit in the cutscene at the end. So yes. They are pretty damn big explosions. They take out entire systems, no question about it.

Wrong. Those are not explosions because they don't destroy earth in most of the endings. Its just the space magic.

They are explosions, and they are harmful (see: Normandy).
Can't have it both ways. What hits Earth is clearly a shockwave from the Crucible, not the imminent relay nova.

Regardless of the fact that in destroy and synthesis, Earth is still going to be destroyed no matter what.

Modifié par The Angry One, 12 mars 2012 - 03:10 .

[Youmu]

Sure there were a lot of fuel depots in ME3, but majority of them was blown up by the Reapers. And Normandy salvaged them all.  ;<
 
Not that the amounts of fuel salvaged from those would have helped, at best they filled up Normandy, a single frigate. Now a Turian fleet trying to go home... no way they'll be able to get more fuel from the wreckages than they spent getting over to the depot.

This is assuming every single star system everywhere was populated and had the fuel depots built. If vast majority of the galaxy is unexplored, you can't count on the fuel depots at all.

You'd need to repurpose/build refinery and mining ships. Not to mention how slow will getting home be if you have to constantly stop to mine for more materials to make fuel. Ships breaking down will also be an issue, how will you fix your ships? Hope for some lucky salvage?

Modifié par Youmu, 12 mars 2012 - 03:11 .