490 réponses à ce sujet

[Forst1999]

The relay destructions didn't kill the systems, i think that is clear. With their energy used for whatever the crucible did, the "explosions" (I'd say crumblings) aren't dangerous.
We have no idea if the Reapers destroyed Earth's farmland, but it seems improbable. They had to sustain human survivors for years, letting them starve to death would be counterproductive. And they concentrated on the cities. It's safe to assume that there is enough to sustain all the aliens that can eat earth food. Not enough for a glorious feast everyday, but they'll live. For the dextros, the Quarians brought their lifeships with them. If they weren't destroyed, the situation becomes bearable.
Travel is almost impossible for years. FTL just doesn't cut it. But there are two things that might improve the situation: Firstly, without the Relays the (conveniently assembled) scientific masterminds of the galaxy might find an alternative mode of travel. Remember, the Relays were a railroading technique of the Reapers. Without them, the search for alternatives might succeed.
Secondly, the Protheans were able to reproduce the technology, the Asari were near enough to at least think about it. And quantum entanglement communicators should still work, if i understand correctly, thus enable the needed coordination where they are used. It might take decades and will never span the whole galaxy, but a new relay network could be created.
So, i think the ending is sad, but not hopeless.

[Mahrac]

@forst1999 fanboys your sig

[Genera1Nemesis]

Nefelius wrote...

That's totally the same circumstances! The result must be the same!

Stop making assumption based on nothing and start seeing the evidence.

All we know that when a relay is blown it destroys everything else. All we see that netwrok is blown. Nothing at all Given NO OTHER EVIDENCE except Arrival based it is logical to assume that the explosion of the network works the same way as in Arrival.

But the explosions are vastly different and are under vastly different circumstances.

[killnoob]

Rocktel wrote...

Kandon Arc wrote...

Rocktel wrote...

Kandon Arc wrote...
If the orbit of a satellite is disrupted, for example by it exploding, it will fall to Earth.

Wrong, there is plenty of debris from destroyed stuff still in orbit this very day.

And much of it continually falls to Earth. Most of it is also smaller than 1 cm3 or less. Expecting a 7 billion ton space ship, not to mention all the destroyed ships (which we see falling to earth throughout the beginning and end), to hang in orbit forever is wishful thinking in the extreme.

Yes it does fall to earth, it still takes decades. The citadel is falling any time soon.

In case you didnt notice most of the debris from the ships wasn't falling.

I've already shoot that "citadel falling death' to death.

We have an entire armada of battleships.

We see the citadel falling towards Earth.

And we're just gonna stand around and do nothing?

Pretty sure some human would think about blasting the Citadel to smaller pieces and let the atomsphere burn it up .

[clonedoriginzero]

its like alot of people are assuming completely crazy things to add to make the endings seem worse.
like the citadel is destroyed and will killing everyone on earth. even though this is never shown.all you see is surface explosions on the citadel then it cuts away.

all the relays go supernova and destroy all relay systems. this is never shown, in fact the opposite is shown. (if you dont believe me, watch teh arrival relay supernova, and the ME3 endings relay explosion, they look nothing alike. AT ALL.)

yes the endings were unsatisfying, but stop trying to make them worse than they were. cus half the stuff people are saying in this thread is flat out wrong.

[Nefelius]

ArbitorEAAcc wrote...

Nefelius wrote...

Rocktel wrote...

Nefelius wrote...
Wrong. 

Earth is hit by a pulse from the citadel, not a Relay big kaboom.
How can u tell ppl wrong just because? There's the evidence:

-Relay blown in Arrival - everything dies 
- Relay network is blown - given the EVIDENCE assumption of entire galaxy dead is correct.


Assumption that was a "space magic thrick that didnt hurt anyone" has no evidence so it is false.

Simple rules of logic.

The Citadel is a relay.

1. en the evidence we don't see anything that  indicates that is is both way going relay - we assume that is a receiving only Relay, Reapers didn't want anyone to find out a straight way to their shelter in dark space. That's why they hide there in the first plac, as Vigil indicates.

2. In blue ending the Citadel do not blow up, so again this proves that given it is a Relay  - it is a receiving Relay only, it does not bear the power to send ships to the other Relays. 

So it does not explodes.

Stop making illogical conclusions based on "i think i'm right".

The only issue with that is the reapers can use the citadel for both transporting in and out of the galaxy. As was told to us by Vigal in Ilos. They were too late to stop the destruction when the reapers arrived through it, and when they left they closed the gate behind them.

Ok. I admit i was wrong about the Citadel. 

But anyway based on THE ONLY EVIDENCE we have in arrival - exploding Relay is destroying everything near it.
There is NO EVIENCE that when the network explodes it leaves everything intact. 
All we see is the exploding Relays.

This is cold blooded logic.

The assumption of everything is OK when the network explodes has no evidence - so it has no logic behind it. It's only your way of seeing things.

[eddieoctane]

Kmead15 wrote...
It's the facemask thing again. Artistic license trumping good science. The cutscene had to show us the space magic travelling from relay to relay, so we know the thing didn't just bug out and only affect everything in the Sol system. Otherwise, the ending would have been even more muddled and unclear.

The Normandy, in FTL, got wrecked but the pulse from either the Crucible or a relay. As a blast wave propegates, the energy concentration on the front drops. Simple physics. Don't believe me? Drop a rock in a large puddle or a pool. The highest ripples (the greatest concentration of energy) only occurs at the point of impact. The ripples may dissipate entirely before reaching the edge of the water. If the Normandy was fleeing and still took enough damage to end up wrecked on a random planet, the energy felt by the systems containing the relays would have been orders of magnitude higher.

I'm sorry, but I can believe many people survived. Maybe it's because I'm an engineer, but there is a point where willing suspension of disbelief breaks can no longer hold up to breaks with established lore. And that's exactly what happened: the ending(s) broke with lore.

And as for the Citadel, if it broke up in Earth orbit, without a powered propulsion system, the debris will either be flung out into the asteroid belt or its orbit will decay until the planet is bombarded by a few million tons of space junk in a series of impacts that would probably steralize the globe. What do you think happened to the moon of Endor when the Death Star went kablooey? Better example: how much to people stress over a satalite crashing back to Earth when it loses power or suffers damager? Answer: a lot. If the impact itself doesn't cause damage, radiological and chemical hazards are still present. Yeah, earth is screwed.

[Nashiktal]

The turians, quarians, krogan, asari, salarians, batarians, rachni, and vorcba never get to see their home's ever again and are all stuck in the sol system and now have to compete for space and resources.

Quarians and turians will either have to work together to survive, or fight to the bitter end for single crumb of food. If the krogan were cured their population will probably explode and outpace the other species, putting strains on already limited resources.

In a desperate bid for survival all the species will have to hope for habitable planets within jumping distance, and when they do find it they will have to decide who gets what, and who shares what, especially since the system earth is in was stripped of easily obtainable resources long ago. (relied upon its colonies for resources)

Yay happy ending.

[killnoob]

clonedoriginzero wrote...

its like alot of people are assuming completely crazy things to add to make the endings seem worse.
like the citadel is destroyed and will killing everyone on earth. even though this is never shown.all you see is surface explosions on the citadel then it cuts away.

all the relays go supernova and destroy all relay systems. this is never shown, in fact the opposite is shown. (if you dont believe me, watch teh arrival relay supernova, and the ME3 endings relay explosion, they look nothing alike. AT ALL.)

yes the endings were unsatisfying, but stop trying to make them worse than they were. cus half the stuff people are saying in this thread is flat out wrong.

+100

[ArbitorEAAcc]

Genera1Nemesis wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Mass Effect 4, could be about fixing the relays though. Just a thought.

I agree; or they could set it a hundred years later and new tech is being used to explore the galaxy which might be unfamiliar after the reaper invasion.

You know, the reapers planted the Mass Relays there in order to ensure that civilizations followed a predetermined path, that was said to us in the first game.

Then we discovered in the second (by DLC) if you smash something into the relay with enough force, relay goes boom.

Then now in the third it seems that in order for people to survive, relays can sort of "Controlled Explode"

So whats the difference between the two?
Me2: Unexpected, unprepared for
Me3: Expected (because of the catalyst), prepared for?

If you really wanted to get technical, you can say that the resulting destruction of a mass relay caused the stored energy to be unleashed because the failure of the central (spinning) rings that seem to be bending a field around some amazing reactor like reaction.

If in ME3 ending we see the rings "lock" and fire the energy towards the next relay fueling the chain of events. Sort of like it was a programmed function in the first place.

[Mixxer5]

killnoob wrote...

Mixxer5 wrote...

Ok let's say that are not explosions. But how just tell me HOW are relays destroyed in other way? What happens with them if they aren't exploding? Space hamsters are disassemble them piece by piece during eye blink? And those space hamsters have green/blue/orange fur? Just... How do you want to destroy mass relay without relasing whole gathered energy?

I told you already.

It could have been that Crucible actually uses up the energy from mess relay, resulting them to explode but in a 'flashbang' notion.

Do flashbang kill people when they explode? No.

Do they produce a mega load of flash lights? hell yea.

Besides, if Bioware wants you to THINK everyone is fked afterward they would add a cinematic showing everybody either getting blown away by the blast or standing around looking at each other saying 'what now?"

But they don't.

They want you to use your imagination to fill the blank, and while this is okay for endings, it is not okay when every endings result the same consequences.

Am I supposed to imagine whole game now? Ending maybe? There are tones of plot holes. Space Kid is literally Deus Ex Machina as he wasn't even once said in any game, book or comic. Truth is- wee don't now how Crucible works. There cannot be explosion (as mass relays obviously explodes) without energy that is extracted. How would you change energy into lights only? Unless mass relays are designed to explode in certain conditions...

[Mahrac]

clonedoriginzero wrote...

its like alot of people are assuming completely crazy things to add to make the endings seem worse.
like the citadel is destroyed and will killing everyone on earth. even though this is never shown.all you see is surface explosions on the citadel then it cuts away.

all the relays go supernova and destroy all relay systems. this is never shown, in fact the opposite is shown. (if you dont believe me, watch teh arrival relay supernova, and the ME3 endings relay explosion, they look nothing alike. AT ALL.)

yes the endings were unsatisfying, but stop trying to make them worse than they were. cus half the stuff people are saying in this thread is flat out wrong.

Are our assumptions bad, yes. They are also based on established canon, with nothing in the epilogue to contradict them.

[killnoob]

Nashiktal wrote...

The turians, quarians, krogan, asari, salarians, batarians, rachni, and vorcba never get to see their home's ever again and are all stuck in the sol system and now have to compete for space and resources.

Quarians and turians will either have to work together to survive, or fight to the bitter end for single crumb of food. If the krogan were cured their population will probably explode and outpace the other species, putting strains on already limited resources.

In a desperate bid for survival all the species will have to hope for habitable planets within jumping distance, and when they do find it they will have to decide who gets what, and who shares what, especially since the system earth is in was stripped of easily obtainable resources long ago. (relied upon its colonies for resources)

Yay happy ending.

Obviously, you haven't been following this post.

And I sure as hell ain't gonna explain to you again why they're alive.

[Rocktel]

Nefelius wrote...

ArbitorEAAcc wrote...

Nefelius wrote...

Rocktel wrote...

Nefelius wrote...
Wrong. 

Earth is hit by a pulse from the citadel, not a Relay big kaboom.
How can u tell ppl wrong just because? There's the evidence:

-Relay blown in Arrival - everything dies 
- Relay network is blown - given the EVIDENCE assumption of entire galaxy dead is correct.


Assumption that was a "space magic thrick that didnt hurt anyone" has no evidence so it is false.

Simple rules of logic.

The Citadel is a relay.

1. en the evidence we don't see anything that  indicates that is is both way going relay - we assume that is a receiving only Relay, Reapers didn't want anyone to find out a straight way to their shelter in dark space. That's why they hide there in the first plac, as Vigil indicates.

2. In blue ending the Citadel do not blow up, so again this proves that given it is a Relay  - it is a receiving Relay only, it does not bear the power to send ships to the other Relays. 

So it does not explodes.

Stop making illogical conclusions based on "i think i'm right".

The only issue with that is the reapers can use the citadel for both transporting in and out of the galaxy. As was told to us by Vigal in Ilos. They were too late to stop the destruction when the reapers arrived through it, and when they left they closed the gate behind them.

Ok. I admit i was wrong about the Citadel. 

But anyway based on THE ONLY EVIDENCE we have in arrival - exploding Relay is destroying everything near it.
There is NO EVIENCE that when the network explodes it leaves everything intact. 
All we see is the exploding Relays.

This is cold blooded logic.

The assumption of everything is OK when the network explodes has no evidence - so it has no logic behind it. It's only your way of seeing things.

Wrong. A nuclear plant melting down is different than dropping a bomb on it. The only thing Arrival proves is smashing an asteroid into a Relay makes it go supernova.

[Nefelius]

Forst1999 wrote...

The relay destructions didn't kill the systems, i think that is clear.
 

No it is not clear. It's cleart that it is abblolutely not true, given the evidence we have. The rest is just imagination.

[Raven of the dark]

to me the endings are very distinct and very emotional the choices you make during the game matter greatly in what outcomes are made avaliable and who survives during the course of your campaign

Synthesis is self sacrifice to remove the things that set organics apart from AI's

you can choose to destroy all AI's risking that it might happen again(and if you got enough military suppport everyone survives)

or lastly you can choose to end the reaper threat by self sacrifice and thus gain control over them.

Maybe we'll get some dlc that explains how the Joker was able to take a trip down a mass relay and even manage to pick up the crew members down on earth. That last part is complete bonkers to me.

It does however serve a purpose in explaining that only one option means AI's and thus EDI can survive as EDI is part reaper in a sense.

Just because you see Red Green or Blue energy emanating from the relays doesn't mean it's harmfull to anyone

maybe "that other story about 'The Shephard'" can explain that discrepancy. Also consider that the technology exists out there to create new mass relays and that they don't all get destroyed by this(some might be point to point like the omega 4 relay)

Modifié par Raven of the dark, 12 mars 2012 - 03:48 .

[Mahrac]

killnoob wrote...

I'm sorry, are the reapers conquering civilizations? or are they targetting fuels?

So do they like, scan the galaxy for fuel and go around destroying them all?

And if that's the case, how come there's still fuels in ME3?

Something doesn't add up......

Hurrr..

They are conquoring civilization, and one way to speed that up is to target industrial centers, communications, and, wait for it, supply posts including, wait for it, fuel depots. As I stated, there are fuel posts in systems the Reapers don't have full control over - like systems with homeworlds.

In summary, destroying fuel depots is a part of destroying civilization.

[Kandon Arc]

killnoob wrote...

Rocktel wrote...

Kandon Arc wrote...

Rocktel wrote...

Kandon Arc wrote...
If the orbit of a satellite is disrupted, for example by it exploding, it will fall to Earth.

Wrong, there is plenty of debris from destroyed stuff still in orbit this very day.

And much of it continually falls to Earth. Most of it is also smaller than 1 cm3 or less. Expecting a 7 billion ton space ship, not to mention all the destroyed ships (which we see falling to earth throughout the beginning and end), to hang in orbit forever is wishful thinking in the extreme.

Yes it does fall to earth, it still takes decades. The citadel is falling any time soon.

In case you didnt notice most of the debris from the ships wasn't falling.

I've already shoot that "citadel falling death' to death.

We have an entire armada of battleships.

We see the citadel falling towards Earth.

And we're just gonna stand around and do nothing?

Pretty sure some human would think about blasting the Citadel to smaller pieces and let the atomsphere burn it up .

Do we even know if that's possible? Not to mention that in the destroy ending, all ship board VI's will be toast, making the fleets rather useless. We just can't predict how the citadel will behave though. It could hang in orbit for centuries, or it could immiediatly come crashing down. I think falling to Earth is much more likely, and I think expecting the fleet to destroy it all is unlikely, but we don't have much evidence to go on.

[Rocktel]

Mahrac wrote...

killnoob wrote...

I'm sorry, are the reapers conquering civilizations? or are they targetting fuels?

So do they like, scan the galaxy for fuel and go around destroying them all?

And if that's the case, how come there's still fuels in ME3?

Something doesn't add up......

Hurrr..

They are conquoring civilization, and one way to speed that up is to target industrial centers, communications, and, wait for it, supply posts including, wait for it, fuel depots. As I stated, there are fuel posts in systems the Reapers don't have full control over - like systems with homeworlds.

In summary, destroying fuel depots is a part of destroying civilization.

You don't need the fuel depots to get fuel, in fact the Quarians have everything they need to mine and refine fuel themselves. The fuel depots just make it easier.

[vengerturtle]

majormajormmajor wrote...

I like how people are concentrating on the fleets and not the populated worlds whose economies and food distribution networks are reliant on instantaneous travel provided by the mass relays. Even assuming there is no relay explosion, we've condemned millions to mass starvation and societal collapse. Places like Omega, asteroids and space stations are dead right off- they need to import everything to live.

Those of you who say the relays can be repaired, or FTL brought in to make up for the lack of relays- they don't have that kind of time. Imagine cutting off all air and sea traffic to a heavily populated country like the UK or Japan that must import all its basic necessities- food, fuel and so forth. They will wither and die as soon as stockpiles or strategic reserves run out. The panic alone caused by news of isolation will suck up even more resources as civil authorities struggle to contain the resulting chaos. And then consider that all planets have been damaged in some way by the Reaper invasion. Some are no longer functioning effectively. Anyone remember that BBC show Threads? The galaxy will resemble that post-nuclear dystopia.

We are counting potentially millions dead with the losses of the relays within the first few months. Of course life will go on once we depopulate enough to reach a certain sustainable level. That is the happy ending postulated by those telling us the relays don't matter.

QFT. I'm assuming for now that the relays didn't destroy the nearby planets because earth SURVIVING is one of the things EMS affects, and if earth can survive as long as you have enough points, then the relays didn't destroy the planet, right? 

[Youmu]

Nashiktal wrote...
If the krogan were cured their population will probably explode and outpace the other species, putting strains on already limited resources.

No way there was a single female Krogan there. They'll all be back on Tuchanka makin' babies.

Tuchanka will be messed up tho, with massive population boom, and no supplies from offworld.

Modifié par Youmu, 12 mars 2012 - 03:50 .

[Kmead15]

Nefelius wrote...

All we know that when a relay is blown it destroys everything else.

Citation needed. No evidence that this is the only result of a relay being destroyed, just a possible one. Further relay explosions under varying circumstances would be required to validate the hypothesis, or all you've proven is that a relay with the exact same modifications as the Alpha relay will destroy everything around it when exposed to the exact same forces placed on the Alpha relay.

Nefelius wrote...

All we see that netwrok is blown. Nothing at all Given NO OTHER EVIDENCE
except Arrival based it is logical to assume that the explosion of the
network works the same way as in Arrival.

No it isn't. Given no other evidence, it is only logical to conclude that we cannot say with absolute certainty what happened in the systems where the relays blew.

[Rocktel]

Kandon Arc wrote...

Do we even know if that's possible? Not to mention that in the destroy ending, all ship board VI's will be toast, making the fleets rather useless. We just can't predict how the citadel will behave though. It could hang in orbit for centuries, or it could immiediatly come crashing down. I think falling to Earth is much more likely, and I think expecting the fleet to destroy it all is unlikely, but we don't have much evidence to go on.

I could point out that EDI is still alive and Shepard can be alive in the Destroy ending as evidence that it didn't destroy all synthetic life. But instead I'll point out that VI's are not synthetic life.

And yes we don't know what the citadel will do, therefore it does not mean the earth is destroyed. It means it could be destroyed.

Modifié par Rocktel, 12 mars 2012 - 04:04 .

[clonedoriginzero]

Mahrac wrote...

clonedoriginzero wrote...

its like alot of people are assuming completely crazy things to add to make the endings seem worse.
like the citadel is destroyed and will killing everyone on earth. even though this is never shown.all you see is surface explosions on the citadel then it cuts away.

all the relays go supernova and destroy all relay systems. this is never shown, in fact the opposite is shown. (if you dont believe me, watch teh arrival relay supernova, and the ME3 endings relay explosion, they look nothing alike. AT ALL.)

yes the endings were unsatisfying, but stop trying to make them worse than they were. cus half the stuff people are saying in this thread is flat out wrong.

Are our assumptions bad, yes. They are also based on established canon, with nothing in the epilogue to contradict them.

nothing in established canon says that surface explosions on the citadel will cause it to suddenly lose stable orbit and crash into earth. NOTHING.

nothing in established canon says that the relays all go supernova despite the fact its shown that they AREN'T. they use their energy for the signal wave. its painfully obvious thats what happens in the scene.why would they go supernova? that makes absolutely no sense.

[Mahrac]

Rocktel wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

killnoob wrote...

I'm sorry, are the reapers conquering civilizations? or are they targetting fuels?

So do they like, scan the galaxy for fuel and go around destroying them all?

And if that's the case, how come there's still fuels in ME3?

Something doesn't add up......

Hurrr..

They are conquoring civilization, and one way to speed that up is to target industrial centers, communications, and, wait for it, supply posts including, wait for it, fuel depots. As I stated, there are fuel posts in systems the Reapers don't have full control over - like systems with homeworlds.

In summary, destroying fuel depots is a part of destroying civilization.

You don't need the fuel depots to get fuel, in fact the Quarians have everything they need to mine and refine fuel themselves. The fuel depots just make it easier.

They also need access to the resourses to make fuel (they dont have it), they still use fuel depots when they can, and they barely have the processing power for their fleet, much less the armada in Sol. And the quarians get whiped out in some people's playthroughs