490 réponses à ce sujet

[killnoob]

Mahrac wrote...

clonedoriginzero wrote...

its like alot of people are assuming completely crazy things to add to make the endings seem worse.
like the citadel is destroyed and will killing everyone on earth. even though this is never shown.all you see is surface explosions on the citadel then it cuts away.

all the relays go supernova and destroy all relay systems. this is never shown, in fact the opposite is shown. (if you dont believe me, watch teh arrival relay supernova, and the ME3 endings relay explosion, they look nothing alike. AT ALL.)

yes the endings were unsatisfying, but stop trying to make them worse than they were. cus half the stuff people are saying in this thread is flat out wrong.

Are our assumptions bad, yes. They are also based on established canon, with nothing in the epilogue to contradict them.

its not actaully established that they're fked.

you just assume they're fked.

Let's take a look at what we know so far;


-Mass relays are blown up.

-Shepard probably died.

- Geth are killed depending on choices

-Normandy was able to crush land on some eden garden.

---------------------------------

What you guys are assuming:

Citadel fall to earth
Earth destroyed
Everyone starve to death
Entire crew got killed
Everyone is stranded
The entire galaxy is doomed
There are not enough fuels anywhere
Everybody are gonna fight against everybody for neccessities
The Quarians will not be able to survive (???)
mass relay destroyed every star systems

----------------------------------------------

What we're trying to tell you:

- Mass relay destroyed doesn't neccessary means everyone is screwed.
There are ways people can survive, and we've already explained them.

That's pretty much it because this is the topic that we're discussing.

Get it?

[Rocktel]

Mahrac wrote...

They also need access to the resourses to make fuel (they dont have it), they still use fuel depots when they can, and they barely have the processing power for their fleet, much less the armada in Sol. And the quarians get whiped out in some people's playthroughs

Why wouldn't they have access to the resources to make fuel? And I simply used the Quarians as an example of how it can be done, I doubt there is no longer any tech for making fuel.

[Mahrac]

clonedoriginzero wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

clonedoriginzero wrote...

its like alot of people are assuming completely crazy things to add to make the endings seem worse.
like the citadel is destroyed and will killing everyone on earth. even though this is never shown.all you see is surface explosions on the citadel then it cuts away.

all the relays go supernova and destroy all relay systems. this is never shown, in fact the opposite is shown. (if you dont believe me, watch teh arrival relay supernova, and the ME3 endings relay explosion, they look nothing alike. AT ALL.)

yes the endings were unsatisfying, but stop trying to make them worse than they were. cus half the stuff people are saying in this thread is flat out wrong.

Are our assumptions bad, yes. They are also based on established canon, with nothing in the epilogue to contradict them.

nothing in established canon says that surface explosions on the citadel will cause it to suddenly lose stable orbit and crash into earth. NOTHING.

nothing in established canon says that the relays all go supernova despite the fact its shown that they AREN'T. they use their energy for the signal wave. its painfully obvious thats what happens in the scene.why would they go supernova? that makes absolutely no sense.

1. every action, equal and oposite reaction

2. the only exploding relay we've seen before is the Alpha relay. it went supernova, and I saw huge shockwaves in the epilogue.

edit: ^ I'm saying they don't have the raw materials needed, whether or not they have the machinery depends on what they have on their ships and what is on Rannoch, as well as what is left on Earth

Modifié par Mahrac, 12 mars 2012 - 03:55 .

[Raven of the dark]

her's a crazy thought, maybe they didn't all blow up, from what we know about the galaxy there's probably a LOT more relays than what we see actually exploding. Maybe just maybe the relays that take part in this are what's needed to cover the galaxy,

[killnoob]

Mahrac wrote...

killnoob wrote...

I'm sorry, are the reapers conquering civilizations? or are they targetting fuels?

So do they like, scan the galaxy for fuel and go around destroying them all?

And if that's the case, how come there's still fuels in ME3?

Something doesn't add up......

Hurrr..

They are conquoring civilization, and one way to speed that up is to target industrial centers, communications, and, wait for it, supply posts including, wait for it, fuel depots. As I stated, there are fuel posts in systems the Reapers don't have full control over - like systems with homeworlds.

In summary, destroying fuel depots is a part of destroying civilization.

That explains why people couldn't find a fuel depot to get back home.
Because Reaper has control over the entire galaxy except the ones that has fuel depot in ME3.
Because it took them only 1 century to conquer the protheans and that's when they were taken by surprise.
And because the entire ME3 has spanned over 1 century, and when we finally get back to earth, Shepard is 100 years old.

Roll eyes.

For cry out loud...

Modifié par killnoob, 12 mars 2012 - 03:54 .

[Rocktel]

Mahrac wrote...
1. every action, equal and oposite reaction

2. the only exploding relay we've seen before is the Alpha relay. it went supernova, and I saw huge shockwaves in the epilogue

As I said a nuclear plant meltdown is different from droping a bomb on it. All arrival proved is hitting a relay with a giant asteroid will make it go supernova AND NOTHING ELSE.

[Rocktel]

Mahrac wrote...

edit: ^ I'm saying they don't have the raw materials needed, whether or not they have the machinery bepends on what they have on their ships and what is on Rannoch.

I know what you're saying and it dosn't make any sense. There's plenty of systems in FTL range they can get raw materials at.

[DrowNoble]

Rocktel wrote...

A lot of people seem to be yelling about this. But it's just not the case. The Reapers were able to spread from where the Alpha Relay used to be without the use of a Mass Relay. Travel without Relays is very possible, its just slower. It'll just take a couple years to cross the galaxy now until new relays can be built.

Actually it is the case.  Just going from one system to the next closest system would take years, possibly decades.  The Mass Relays allow instant travel from Point A to Point B.  The Reapers took a while to get here from dark space, since they didn't have the Citadel Relay to pull them in instantly.  Once they arrived they started spreading quickly via the relays.

Since the poorly written bad ending, essentially most of the galaxy's races are in the Sol System.  Any Quarians left on the homeworld would fine themselves cut off with no support since all the geth are dead.  Remember Tali saying how they don't remember how to plant crops?  So those Quarians not on Earth are all going to starve to death.

Obviously this ending was not well thought out by Bioware. 

[clonedoriginzero]

Mahrac wrote...

clonedoriginzero wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

clonedoriginzero wrote...

its like alot of people are assuming completely crazy things to add to make the endings seem worse.
like the citadel is destroyed and will killing everyone on earth. even though this is never shown.all you see is surface explosions on the citadel then it cuts away.

all the relays go supernova and destroy all relay systems. this is never shown, in fact the opposite is shown. (if you dont believe me, watch teh arrival relay supernova, and the ME3 endings relay explosion, they look nothing alike. AT ALL.)

yes the endings were unsatisfying, but stop trying to make them worse than they were. cus half the stuff people are saying in this thread is flat out wrong.

Are our assumptions bad, yes. They are also based on established canon, with nothing in the epilogue to contradict them.

nothing in established canon says that surface explosions on the citadel will cause it to suddenly lose stable orbit and crash into earth. NOTHING.

nothing in established canon says that the relays all go supernova despite the fact its shown that they AREN'T. they use their energy for the signal wave. its painfully obvious thats what happens in the scene.why would they go supernova? that makes absolutely no sense.

1. every action, equal and oposite reaction

2. the only exploding relay we've seen before is the Alpha relay. it went supernova, and I saw huge shockwaves in the epilogue

yes. ive explained it at least 5 times. apparently you're not reading it.

the energy from the relays is being used to send the signal over entire sectors of  space. that requires TONS of energy. it uses up the relays energy to send out the signal wave, then the relay explodes after using up all its energy. theres no energy to cause a super nova.  those "shockwaves" are not shockwaves, its the signal wave. the SAME ONE that washed over earth and left everyone unharmed.

did you pay ANY attention to the ending at all?

[killnoob]

Mahrac wrote...

clonedoriginzero wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

clonedoriginzero wrote...

its like alot of people are assuming completely crazy things to add to make the endings seem worse.
like the citadel is destroyed and will killing everyone on earth. even though this is never shown.all you see is surface explosions on the citadel then it cuts away.

all the relays go supernova and destroy all relay systems. this is never shown, in fact the opposite is shown. (if you dont believe me, watch teh arrival relay supernova, and the ME3 endings relay explosion, they look nothing alike. AT ALL.)

yes the endings were unsatisfying, but stop trying to make them worse than they were. cus half the stuff people are saying in this thread is flat out wrong.

Are our assumptions bad, yes. They are also based on established canon, with nothing in the epilogue to contradict them.

nothing in established canon says that surface explosions on the citadel will cause it to suddenly lose stable orbit and crash into earth. NOTHING.

nothing in established canon says that the relays all go supernova despite the fact its shown that they AREN'T. they use their energy for the signal wave. its painfully obvious thats what happens in the scene.why would they go supernova? that makes absolutely no sense.

1. every action, equal and oposite reaction

2. the only exploding relay we've seen before is the Alpha relay. it went supernova, and I saw huge shockwaves in the epilogue.

edit: ^ I'm saying they don't have the raw materials needed, whether or not they have the machinery depends on what they have on their ships and what is on Rannoch, as well as what is left on Earth

Can we stop draggin Arrival into this?

Driving a giant asteroid into a mass relay causing it to explode

and

using crucible causing them to self destruct

is NOT  the same thing.

Modifié par killnoob, 12 mars 2012 - 03:56 .

[Nefelius]

[quote]Rocktel wrote...

The assumption of everything is OK when the network explodes has no evidence - so it has no logic behind it. It's only your way of seeing things.
[/quote]

Wrong. A nuclear plant melting down is different than dropping a bomb on it. The only thing Arrival proves is smashing an asteroid into a Relay makes it go supernova.

[/quote]
Wrong.

3:30   

The evidence indictates than energy release is destroying everything near it.
There is NO evidence that the network destruction caused NO energy Release.
There is the ONLY evidence we've got - a massive shockwaves after explosions we see in the galactic map.

Based on the evidence  we've got  - the ONLY LOGICAL conclusion is that every system with a relay is dead.

Modifié par Nefelius, 12 mars 2012 - 04:01 .

[GreyhameBioware]

Rocktel wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

They also need access to the resourses to make fuel (they dont have it), they still use fuel depots when they can, and they barely have the processing power for their fleet, much less the armada in Sol. And the quarians get whiped out in some people's playthroughs

Why wouldn't they have access to the resources to make fuel? And I simply used the Quarians as an example of how it can be done, I doubt there is no longer any tech for making fuel.

Which is great and all.  Buit the Quarians are probably the only race there with the resources to stay alive during teir trips home due to the fact that they had to live in space.  Everyone else who can't eat Earth food is pretty much doomed to have to live on what Earth might have left for them in ships that are not designed for long term space travel without the ability for a fast resupply.

As I said, taking out the mass relays would be like society today if all of a suddent we have to revert back to using horse and buggy, with most of the world's population centered in one area.  Sure the world would still go on, but it's certainly not going to be nice.

[clonedoriginzero]

Raven of the dark wrote...

her's a crazy thought, maybe they didn't all blow up, from what we know about the galaxy there's probably a LOT more relays than what we see actually exploding. Maybe just maybe the relays that take part in this are what's needed to cover the galaxy,

hell, thats a good point. we only KNOW that the sol relay was destroyed. maybe that was only because it was the first relay the signal hit

[Rocktel]

Nefelius wrote..
Wrong.

3:30   

The evidence indictates than energy release is destroying everything near it.
There is NO evidence that the network destruction caused NO energy Release.

Based on the evidence  we've got  - the ONLY LOGICAL conclusion is that every system with a relay is not dead.

That makes no scientific sense whatsoever. There are multitudes of ways energy can be released and only a few of them are destructive.

[killnoob]

GreyhameBioware wrote...

Rocktel wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

They also need access to the resourses to make fuel (they dont have it), they still use fuel depots when they can, and they barely have the processing power for their fleet, much less the armada in Sol. And the quarians get whiped out in some people's playthroughs

Why wouldn't they have access to the resources to make fuel? And I simply used the Quarians as an example of how it can be done, I doubt there is no longer any tech for making fuel.

Which is great and all.  Buit the Quarians are probably the only race there with the resources to stay alive during teir trips home due to the fact that they had to live in space.  Everyone else who can't eat Earth food is pretty much doomed to have to live on what Earth might have left for them in ships that are not designed for long term space travel without the ability for a fast resupply.

As I said, taking out the mass relays would be like society today if all of a suddent we have to revert back to using horse and buggy, with most of the world's population centered in one area.  Sure the world would still go on, but it's certainly not going to be nice.

By your logic, no aliens have ever visited earth because:

(A) Other species can't bring their food along for some reason
( Earth didn't stockpile alien food because they thought aliens won't do the economic any good

Both of these assumptions are fail.

Now you're gonna bring the reapers into this.

And I'm gonna tell you Anderson stayed alive this whole time and never mentioned once about ration problems so yea there are still food on earth.

[Kandon Arc]

Rocktel wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

edit: ^ I'm saying they don't have the raw materials needed, whether or not they have the machinery bepends on what they have on their ships and what is on Rannoch.

I know what you're saying and it dosn't make any sense. There's plenty of systems in FTL range they can get raw materials at.

I'm sorry but this is a MASSIVE assumption. We have no idea how common the raw materials for making starship fuel are, nor what the state of systems near Sol is.

[gxkrizard]

Rocktel wrote...
 
Such as they are using a relay which just blew up.

Rawgrim wrote...

Why would Normandy be using a relay at that time anyway? Makes no sense.

Wait, what? Why are you assuming they were using mass relay? I thought they just used FTL speed to get out of range.

[Kmead15]

eddieoctane wrote...

Kmead15 wrote...
It's the facemask thing again. Artistic license trumping good science. The cutscene had to show us the space magic travelling from relay to relay, so we know the thing didn't just bug out and only affect everything in the Sol system. Otherwise, the ending would have been even more muddled and unclear.

The Normandy, in FTL, got wrecked but the pulse from either the Crucible or a relay. As a blast wave propegates, the energy concentration on the front drops. Simple physics. Don't believe me? Drop a rock in a large puddle or a pool. The highest ripples (the greatest concentration of energy) only occurs at the point of impact. The ripples may dissipate entirely before reaching the edge of the water. If the Normandy was fleeing and still took enough damage to end up wrecked on a random planet, the energy felt by the systems containing the relays would have been orders of magnitude higher.

I'm sorry, but I can believe many people survived. Maybe it's because I'm an engineer, but there is a point where willing suspension of disbelief breaks can no longer hold up to breaks with established lore. And that's exactly what happened: the ending(s) broke with lore.

And as for the Citadel, if it broke up in Earth orbit, without a powered propulsion system, the debris will either be flung out into the asteroid belt or its orbit will decay until the planet is bombarded by a few million tons of space junk in a series of impacts that would probably steralize the globe. What do you think happened to the moon of Endor when the Death Star went kablooey? Better example: how much to people stress over a satalite crashing back to Earth when it loses power or suffers damager? Answer: a lot. If the impact itself doesn't cause damage, radiological and chemical hazards are still present. Yeah, earth is screwed.

The Normandy ends up wrecked on a random planet with minor surface damage and the pilot with brittle bone disease entirely unharmed. That barely even counts as a crash.

[The Angry One]

Rocktel wrote...

Nefelius wrote..
Wrong.

3:30   

The evidence indictates than energy release is destroying everything near it.
There is NO evidence that the network destruction caused NO energy Release.

Based on the evidence  we've got  - the ONLY LOGICAL conclusion is that every system with a relay is not dead.

That makes no scientific sense whatsoever. There are multitudes of ways energy can be released and only a few of them are destructive.

The energy released from an exploding relay core is destructive. Period.
It is destructive in Arrival, it is destructive in ME3 (Normandy, though that's not from the explosion, again, THAT'S JUST THE PULSE).

[Nefelius]

Rocktel wrote...

Nefelius wrote..
Wrong.

3:30   

The evidence indictates than energy release is destroying everything near it.
There is NO evidence that the network destruction caused NO energy Release.

Based on the evidence  we've got  - the ONLY LOGICAL conclusion is that every system with a relay is  dead.

That makes no scientific sense whatsoever. There are multitudes of ways energy can be released and only a few of them are destructive.

This is not about scientific sense. Whole ME game series have no scientific sense.

Open your eyes and see the evidence. 
All beyond the existing evidense is assumptions, which are imaginary, unlike the said evidence.

Modifié par Nefelius, 12 mars 2012 - 04:01 .

[Rocktel]

DrowNoble wrote...

Rocktel wrote...

A lot of people seem to be yelling about this. But it's just not the case. The Reapers were able to spread from where the Alpha Relay used to be without the use of a Mass Relay. Travel without Relays is very possible, its just slower. It'll just take a couple years to cross the galaxy now until new relays can be built.

Actually it is the case.  Just going from one system to the next closest system would take years, possibly decades.  The Mass Relays allow instant travel from Point A to Point B.  The Reapers took a while to get here from dark space, since they didn't have the Citadel Relay to pull them in instantly.  Once they arrived they started spreading quickly via the relays.

Since the poorly written bad ending, essentially most of the galaxy's races are in the Sol System.  Any Quarians left on the homeworld would fine themselves cut off with no support since all the geth are dead.  Remember Tali saying how they don't remember how to plant crops?  So those Quarians not on Earth are all going to starve to death.

Obviously this ending was not well thought out by Bioware. 

I sincerely doubt that the Quarians on Rannoch took every ship they had to fight the Reapers, leaving none back at the homeworld,

[The Angry One]

Kmead15 wrote...
The Normandy ends up wrecked on a random planet with minor surface damage and the pilot with brittle bone disease entirely unharmed. That barely even counts as a crash.

Minor damage? It's wrecked.
As for Joker.. are you really going to use bad writing to defend this?

[killnoob]

Kmead15 wrote...

eddieoctane wrote...

Kmead15 wrote...
It's the facemask thing again. Artistic license trumping good science. The cutscene had to show us the space magic travelling from relay to relay, so we know the thing didn't just bug out and only affect everything in the Sol system. Otherwise, the ending would have been even more muddled and unclear.

The Normandy, in FTL, got wrecked but the pulse from either the Crucible or a relay. As a blast wave propegates, the energy concentration on the front drops. Simple physics. Don't believe me? Drop a rock in a large puddle or a pool. The highest ripples (the greatest concentration of energy) only occurs at the point of impact. The ripples may dissipate entirely before reaching the edge of the water. If the Normandy was fleeing and still took enough damage to end up wrecked on a random planet, the energy felt by the systems containing the relays would have been orders of magnitude higher.

I'm sorry, but I can believe many people survived. Maybe it's because I'm an engineer, but there is a point where willing suspension of disbelief breaks can no longer hold up to breaks with established lore. And that's exactly what happened: the ending(s) broke with lore.

And as for the Citadel, if it broke up in Earth orbit, without a powered propulsion system, the debris will either be flung out into the asteroid belt or its orbit will decay until the planet is bombarded by a few million tons of space junk in a series of impacts that would probably steralize the globe. What do you think happened to the moon of Endor when the Death Star went kablooey? Better example: how much to people stress over a satalite crashing back to Earth when it loses power or suffers damager? Answer: a lot. If the impact itself doesn't cause damage, radiological and chemical hazards are still present. Yeah, earth is screwed.

The Normandy ends up wrecked on a random planet with minor surface damage and the pilot with brittle bone disease entirely unharmed. That barely even counts as a crash.

More liek, skidded.

[Rocktel]

Nefelius wrote...

Rocktel wrote...

Nefelius wrote..
Wrong.

3:30   

The evidence indictates than energy release is destroying everything near it.
There is NO evidence that the network destruction caused NO energy Release.

Based on the evidence  we've got  - the ONLY LOGICAL conclusion is that every system with a relay is not dead.

That makes no scientific sense whatsoever. There are multitudes of ways energy can be released and only a few of them are destructive.

This is not about scientific sense. Whole ME game series have no scientific sense.

Open your eyes and see the evidence. 
All beyond the existing evidense is assumptions, which are imaginary, unlike the said evidence.

And like I said there is no evidence that whatever the Relays did would cause them to go supernova. Just that crashing an asteroid would cause them to go supernova.

[JeffZero]

100% agreed, actually. Which is why when the writers can finally discuss things it will be a welcome thing indeed.

Still, hoping for more than just that. But the endings are simply poorly-constructed; in the absence of logic gaps must be plugged and a lot of people are plugging them with miserable, miserable thoughts.