490 réponses à ce sujet

[Kandon Arc]

Rocktel wrote...

Kandon Arc wrote...

Do we even know if that's possible? Not to mention that in the destroy ending, all ship board VI's will be toast, making the fleets rather useless. We just can't predict how the citadel will behave though. It could hang in orbit for centuries, or it could immiediatly come crashing down. I think falling to Earth is much more likely, and I think expecting the fleet to destroy it all is unlikely, but we don't have much evidence to go on.

I could point out that EDI is still alive and Shepard can be alive in the Destroy ending as evidence that it didn't destroy all organic. But instead I'll point out that VI's are not synthetic life.

And yes we don't know what the citadel will do, therefore it does not mean the earth is destroyed. It means it could be destroyed.

How are VIs not synthetic? They sure as hell ain't organic.

[majormajormmajor]

Still waiting for an explanation of how inhabited systems which depend on daily imports are going to survive without instantaneous relay travel.

[Rocktel]

Kandon Arc wrote...

Rocktel wrote...

Kandon Arc wrote...

Do we even know if that's possible? Not to mention that in the destroy ending, all ship board VI's will be toast, making the fleets rather useless. We just can't predict how the citadel will behave though. It could hang in orbit for centuries, or it could immiediatly come crashing down. I think falling to Earth is much more likely, and I think expecting the fleet to destroy it all is unlikely, but we don't have much evidence to go on.

I could point out that EDI is still alive and Shepard can be alive in the Destroy ending as evidence that it didn't destroy all organic. But instead I'll point out that VI's are not synthetic life.

And yes we don't know what the citadel will do, therefore it does not mean the earth is destroyed. It means it could be destroyed.

How are VIs not synthetic? They sure as hell ain't organic.

Guns are synthetic. Ships are synthetic. They're not alive.

[killnoob]

The Angry One wrote...

Kmead15 wrote...
The Normandy ends up wrecked on a random planet with minor surface damage and the pilot with brittle bone disease entirely unharmed. That barely even counts as a crash.

Minor damage? It's wrecked.
As for Joker.. are you really going to use bad writing to defend this?

Boy don't talk about bad writing in front of me.

I'm not even sure why the normandy HAS to crush on a random eden planet.

They're probably after a Adam and Eve ending but it just doesn't work.

But hey, i can prove to you the ship ain't wrecked by joker walking out of it alive.

Or else there's no way thats happening.

once again, you're assuming the worst.

[killnoob]

Mixxer5 wrote...

killnoob wrote...

Mixxer5 wrote...

Ok let's say that are not explosions. But how just tell me HOW are relays destroyed in other way? What happens with them if they aren't exploding? Space hamsters are disassemble them piece by piece during eye blink? And those space hamsters have green/blue/orange fur? Just... How do you want to destroy mass relay without relasing whole gathered energy?

I told you already.

It could have been that Crucible actually uses up the energy from mess relay, resulting them to explode but in a 'flashbang' notion.

Do flashbang kill people when they explode? No.

Do they produce a mega load of flash lights? hell yea.

Besides, if Bioware wants you to THINK everyone is fked afterward they would add a cinematic showing everybody either getting blown away by the blast or standing around looking at each other saying 'what now?"

But they don't.

They want you to use your imagination to fill the blank, and while this is okay for endings, it is not okay when every endings result the same consequences.

Am I supposed to imagine whole game now? Ending maybe? There are tones of plot holes. Space Kid is literally Deus Ex Machina as he wasn't even once said in any game, book or comic. Truth is- wee don't now how Crucible works. There cannot be explosion (as mass relays obviously explodes) without energy that is extracted. How would you change energy into lights only? Unless mass relays are designed to explode in certain conditions...

For fuk sake we're not arguing whether the endings are bad or not.

We're talking about if mass relay getting destroyed means  100% certain doom for every race in galaxy.

And I've just made a zapillion example how they could survive.

People have already told you there are tons of way to release energy without them being destructive.

Modifié par killnoob, 12 mars 2012 - 04:05 .

[Drak41n]

Agricultural worlds imply that other worlds rely on them for food.  I'm guessing that super highly populated world, like Illium, or enormouse space stations, like Omega, Probably don't have the years of of time needed for travel to deliver the food.  That dooms at least some civilizations!

[clonedoriginzero]

The Angry One wrote...

Rocktel wrote...

Nefelius wrote..
Wrong.

3:30   

The evidence indictates than energy release is destroying everything near it.
There is NO evidence that the network destruction caused NO energy Release.

Based on the evidence  we've got  - the ONLY LOGICAL conclusion is that every system with a relay is not dead.

That makes no scientific sense whatsoever. There are multitudes of ways energy can be released and only a few of them are destructive.

The energy released from an exploding relay core is destructive. Period.
It is destructive in Arrival, it is destructive in ME3 (Normandy, though that's not from the explosion, again, THAT'S JUST THE PULSE).

no. its not a supernova. did you see a super nova? nope you didnt. i didnt, no one did.
go back a few pages, i posted links to both explosions, the super nova in arrival and the relay explosion in ME3. the arrival one looks like a supernova. the relay one looks like a ship exploding and the signalwave going out from it.

that is the same signal wave that washed over earth and only effected the reapers.

what don't you understand about that? seriously? i can only explain it in so many different ways lol

[Kandon Arc]

Rocktel wrote...

Kandon Arc wrote...

Rocktel wrote...

Kandon Arc wrote...

Do we even know if that's possible? Not to mention that in the destroy ending, all ship board VI's will be toast, making the fleets rather useless. We just can't predict how the citadel will behave though. It could hang in orbit for centuries, or it could immiediatly come crashing down. I think falling to Earth is much more likely, and I think expecting the fleet to destroy it all is unlikely, but we don't have much evidence to go on.

I could point out that EDI is still alive and Shepard can be alive in the Destroy ending as evidence that it didn't destroy all organic. But instead I'll point out that VI's are not synthetic life.

And yes we don't know what the citadel will do, therefore it does not mean the earth is destroyed. It means it could be destroyed.

How are VIs not synthetic? They sure as hell ain't organic.

Guns are synthetic. Ships are synthetic. They're not alive.

Fine then what is the fundamental difference between the geth and VI that means one will be destroyed and one will survive.

[Mahrac]

Rocktel wrote...

Mahrac wrote...
1. every action, equal and oposite reaction

2. the only exploding relay we've seen before is the Alpha relay. it went supernova, and I saw huge shockwaves in the epilogue

As I said a nuclear plant meltdown is different from droping a bomb on it. All arrival proved is hitting a relay with a giant asteroid will make it go supernova AND NOTHING ELSE.

It's all we have to go on

killnoob wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

killnoob wrote...

I'm sorry, are the reapers conquering civilizations? or are they targetting fuels?

So do they like, scan the galaxy for fuel and go around destroying them all?

And if that's the case, how come there's still fuels in ME3?

Something doesn't add up......

Hurrr..

They are conquoring civilization, and one way to speed that up is to target industrial centers, communications, and, wait for it, supply posts including, wait for it, fuel depots. As I stated, there are fuel posts in systems the Reapers don't have full control over - like systems with homeworlds.

In summary, destroying fuel depots is a part of destroying civilization.

That explains why people couldn't find a fuel depot to get back home.
Because Reaper has control over the entire galaxy except the ones that has fuel depot in ME3.
Because it took them only 1 century to conquer the protheans and that's when they were taken by surprise.
And because the entire ME3 has spanned over 1 century, and when we finally get back to earth, Shepard is 100 years old.

Roll eyes.

For cry out loud...

Actually, it does.
Explore the map, that's how it's set up
They also had control of the relay network, so they could take their time
No, but they are compleatly eradicating civilization, so it's the clean up that takes so long, not the occupation part

[eddieoctane]

Again, the energy released by the relays was substantial enough to overtake an FTL-speed Normandy (one of the fastest ships in universe). The energy was strong enough to cripple the ship. Any damage received by the Normandy would have been more intense closer to the detonating relay. If you inhabited the same system as a relay, you are out of luck.

I'm not saying that the relays detonated with the force of a supernova, but a significant amount of energy was released from the relays. There were thousands of ships in orbit over Earth when the relays went off. While no damage was shown being passed along to the fleets, it's foolish to assume that the Normandy was the only ship to suffer any ill effects of the pulse from the Crucible. The facts just don't bode well for earth.

[Nefelius]

Rocktel wrote...

Nefelius wrote...

Rocktel wrote...

Nefelius wrote..
Wrong.

3:30   

The evidence indictates than energy release is destroying everything near it.
There is NO evidence that the network destruction caused NO energy Release.

Based on the evidence  we've got  - the ONLY LOGICAL conclusion is that every system with a relay is not dead.

That makes no scientific sense whatsoever. There are multitudes of ways energy can be released and only a few of them are destructive.

This is not about scientific sense. Whole ME game series have no scientific sense.

Open your eyes and see the evidence. 
All beyond the existing evidense is assumptions, which are imaginary, unlike the said evidence.

And like I said there is no evidence that whatever the Relays did would cause them to go supernova. Just that crashing an asteroid would cause them to go supernova.

Arrival - we see a Relay falling apart and exploding. Given the evidence - when a Relay falls apart it causes the energy stored in it go loose. When the energy go loose - everything near the Relay dies. This has nothing to do with the asteroid. It was not the asteroid that destroyed the system. The asteroid was nothing but a "tool" to release the energy.
 Period.
ME3 - we a netwrok of relays fall apart and a massive shockwaves. Given the evidence (which is Arrival) every system having a relay in it dies.

[Rocktel]

Kandon Arc wrote...

Rocktel wrote...

Kandon Arc wrote...

Rocktel wrote...

Kandon Arc wrote...

Do we even know if that's possible? Not to mention that in the destroy ending, all ship board VI's will be toast, making the fleets rather useless. We just can't predict how the citadel will behave though. It could hang in orbit for centuries, or it could immiediatly come crashing down. I think falling to Earth is much more likely, and I think expecting the fleet to destroy it all is unlikely, but we don't have much evidence to go on.

I could point out that EDI is still alive and Shepard can be alive in the Destroy ending as evidence that it didn't destroy all organic. But instead I'll point out that VI's are not synthetic life.

And yes we don't know what the citadel will do, therefore it does not mean the earth is destroyed. It means it could be destroyed.

How are VIs not synthetic? They sure as hell ain't organic.

Guns are synthetic. Ships are synthetic. They're not alive.

Fine then what is the fundamental difference between the geth and VI that means one will be destroyed and one will survive.

No idea, ask the Catalyst.

[majormajormmajor]

killnoob wrote...

For fuk sake we're not arguing whether the endings are bad or not.

We're talking about if mass relay getting destroyed means  100% certain doom for every race in galaxy.

And I've just made a zapillion example how they could survive.

All of them refuted. All of them refuted. All of them... refuted.

[Rocktel]

Nefelius wrote...
Arrival - we see a Relay falling apart and exploding. Given the evidence - when a Relay falls apart it causes the energy stored in it go loose. When the energy go loose - everything near the Relay dies. This has nothing to do with the asteroid. It was not the asteroid that destroyed the system. The asteroid was nothing but a "tool" to release the energy.
 Period.
ME3 - we a netwrok of relays fall apart and a massive shockwaves. Given the evidence (which is Arrival) every system having a relay in it dies.

Like I said energy can be loosed in many non destructive ways. Destroying a relay in a different way would mean the energy would be released in a different way.
Period.
Arrival proves Asteroid+Relay=Supernova and nothing else.

[vengerturtle]

majormajormmajor wrote...

Still waiting for an explanation of how inhabited systems which depend on daily imports are going to survive without instantaneous relay travel.

Apparently we can't do that until we decide if the planets went all explode-y or not. FTR, I think that if they intended the relays to destroy planets, that would have been something that they had shown. Or included as part of what your EMS affects or something. 

[Rocktel]

majormajormmajor wrote...

Still waiting for an explanation of how inhabited systems which depend on daily imports are going to survive without instantaneous relay travel.

They're probably boned. But they aren't most of the galaxy.

[Kandon Arc]

Rocktel wrote...

Kandon Arc wrote...

Rocktel wrote...

Kandon Arc wrote...

Rocktel wrote...

Kandon Arc wrote...

Do we even know if that's possible? Not to mention that in the destroy ending, all ship board VI's will be toast, making the fleets rather useless. We just can't predict how the citadel will behave though. It could hang in orbit for centuries, or it could immiediatly come crashing down. I think falling to Earth is much more likely, and I think expecting the fleet to destroy it all is unlikely, but we don't have much evidence to go on.

I could point out that EDI is still alive and Shepard can be alive in the Destroy ending as evidence that it didn't destroy all organic. But instead I'll point out that VI's are not synthetic life.

And yes we don't know what the citadel will do, therefore it does not mean the earth is destroyed. It means it could be destroyed.

How are VIs not synthetic? They sure as hell ain't organic.

Guns are synthetic. Ships are synthetic. They're not alive.

Fine then what is the fundamental difference between the geth and VI that means one will be destroyed and one will survive.

No idea, ask the Catalyst.

Haha it always comes back to that little f***er doesn't it? 

[killnoob]

Mahrac wrote...

Rocktel wrote...

Mahrac wrote...
1. every action, equal and oposite reaction

2. the only exploding relay we've seen before is the Alpha relay. it went supernova, and I saw huge shockwaves in the epilogue

As I said a nuclear plant meltdown is different from droping a bomb on it. All arrival proved is hitting a relay with a giant asteroid will make it go supernova AND NOTHING ELSE.

It's all we have to go on

killnoob wrote...

Mahrac wrote...

killnoob wrote...

I'm sorry, are the reapers conquering civilizations? or are they targetting fuels?

So do they like, scan the galaxy for fuel and go around destroying them all?

And if that's the case, how come there's still fuels in ME3?

Something doesn't add up......

Hurrr..

They are conquoring civilization, and one way to speed that up is to target industrial centers, communications, and, wait for it, supply posts including, wait for it, fuel depots. As I stated, there are fuel posts in systems the Reapers don't have full control over - like systems with homeworlds.

In summary, destroying fuel depots is a part of destroying civilization.

That explains why people couldn't find a fuel depot to get back home.
Because Reaper has control over the entire galaxy except the ones that has fuel depot in ME3.
Because it took them only 1 century to conquer the protheans and that's when they were taken by surprise.
And because the entire ME3 has spanned over 1 century, and when we finally get back to earth, Shepard is 100 years old.

Roll eyes.

For cry out loud...

Actually, it does.
Explore the map, that's how it's set up
They also had control of the relay network, so they could take their time
No, but they are compleatly eradicating civilization, so it's the clean up that takes so long, not the occupation part

Urgghhhhh....

There are fuel depots in the star system occpuied by reapers.
There are also broken wreckage you can salvage for fuels, and there are pretty much everywhere.
Sometimes I find 2 wreckage in 1 system.

God damn have you even played the game?

[Mahrac]

Rocktel wrote...

Nefelius wrote...
Arrival - we see a Relay falling apart and exploding. Given the evidence - when a Relay falls apart it causes the energy stored in it go loose. When the energy go loose - everything near the Relay dies. This has nothing to do with the asteroid. It was not the asteroid that destroyed the system. The asteroid was nothing but a "tool" to release the energy.
 Period.
ME3 - we a netwrok of relays fall apart and a massive shockwaves. Given the evidence (which is Arrival) every system having a relay in it dies.

Like I said energy can be loosed in many non destructive ways. Destroying a relay in a different way would mean the energy would be released in a different way.
Period.
Arrival proves Asteroid+Relay=Supernova and nothing else.

It also doesn't disprove Crucible Blast+Relay=Supernova or Supernova strength shockwave

[killnoob]

Kandon Arc wrote...

Rocktel wrote...

Kandon Arc wrote...

Rocktel wrote...

Kandon Arc wrote...

Rocktel wrote...

Kandon Arc wrote...

Do we even know if that's possible? Not to mention that in the destroy ending, all ship board VI's will be toast, making the fleets rather useless. We just can't predict how the citadel will behave though. It could hang in orbit for centuries, or it could immiediatly come crashing down. I think falling to Earth is much more likely, and I think expecting the fleet to destroy it all is unlikely, but we don't have much evidence to go on.

I could point out that EDI is still alive and Shepard can be alive in the Destroy ending as evidence that it didn't destroy all organic. But instead I'll point out that VI's are not synthetic life.

And yes we don't know what the citadel will do, therefore it does not mean the earth is destroyed. It means it could be destroyed.

How are VIs not synthetic? They sure as hell ain't organic.

Guns are synthetic. Ships are synthetic. They're not alive.

Fine then what is the fundamental difference between the geth and VI that means one will be destroyed and one will survive.

No idea, ask the Catalyst.

Haha it always comes back to that little f***er doesn't it? 

Yes.

Yes it does..

[The Angry One]

Rocktel wrote...

Kandon Arc wrote...

Rocktel wrote...

Kandon Arc wrote...

Rocktel wrote...

Kandon Arc wrote...

Do we even know if that's possible? Not to mention that in the destroy ending, all ship board VI's will be toast, making the fleets rather useless. We just can't predict how the citadel will behave though. It could hang in orbit for centuries, or it could immiediatly come crashing down. I think falling to Earth is much more likely, and I think expecting the fleet to destroy it all is unlikely, but we don't have much evidence to go on.

I could point out that EDI is still alive and Shepard can be alive in the Destroy ending as evidence that it didn't destroy all organic. But instead I'll point out that VI's are not synthetic life.

And yes we don't know what the citadel will do, therefore it does not mean the earth is destroyed. It means it could be destroyed.

How are VIs not synthetic? They sure as hell ain't organic.

Guns are synthetic. Ships are synthetic. They're not alive.

Fine then what is the fundamental difference between the geth and VI that means one will be destroyed and one will survive.

No idea, ask the Catalyst.

There is no difference between Geth and VIs.
GETH ARE VIs. Specifically, Geth are multple VIs networked together to the point that they achieve sentience.

[Kandon Arc]

missnicolec wrote...

majormajormmajor wrote...

Still waiting for an explanation of how inhabited systems which depend on daily imports are going to survive without instantaneous relay travel.

Apparently we can't do that until we decide if the planets went all explode-y or not. FTR, I think that if they intended the relays to destroy planets, that would have been something that they had shown. Or included as part of what your EMS affects or something. 

I think undoubtedly BW intendend the relays and citadel to harmlessly disappear. The problem is they didn't think it through at all and created a bunch of unintended effects.

[Youmu]

It's silly to assume that the relays "blow up" the same way they did in Arrival.

You can knock down a skyscraper in a way that it will collapse on itself. It can also be made to crash down in a way that it knocks down the neighboring block.

In one instance, the relay is doing it's thing, and someone tosses a giant rock on it. The thing blows up catastrophically. In the other instance, the Relay Daddy calls them all and says "sup, time to close down shop".

Even if they in both instances released the equal, massive amounts of energy, maybe it simply is shot through the relay, and a much less harmless pulse is released.

I don't see why Reapers would devastate the entire galaxy just because their AI controlling method failed.

The Angry One wrote...

There is no difference between Geth and VIs.
GETH ARE VIs. Specifically, Geth are multple VIs networked together to the point that they achieve sentience.

 
Geth probably are much, much more than that after Legion uploads his stuff, tho.

Modifié par Youmu, 12 mars 2012 - 04:12 .

[Rocktel]

Mahrac wrote...

Rocktel wrote...

Nefelius wrote...
Arrival - we see a Relay falling apart and exploding. Given the evidence - when a Relay falls apart it causes the energy stored in it go loose. When the energy go loose - everything near the Relay dies. This has nothing to do with the asteroid. It was not the asteroid that destroyed the system. The asteroid was nothing but a "tool" to release the energy.
 Period.
ME3 - we a netwrok of relays fall apart and a massive shockwaves. Given the evidence (which is Arrival) every system having a relay in it dies.

Like I said energy can be loosed in many non destructive ways. Destroying a relay in a different way would mean the energy would be released in a different way.
Period.
Arrival proves Asteroid+Relay=Supernova and nothing else.

It also doesn't disprove Crucible Blast+Relay=Supernova or Supernova strength shockwave

You're right it dosn't. We have no idea. That's the point.

[killnoob]

Mahrac wrote...

Rocktel wrote...

Nefelius wrote...
Arrival - we see a Relay falling apart and exploding. Given the evidence - when a Relay falls apart it causes the energy stored in it go loose. When the energy go loose - everything near the Relay dies. This has nothing to do with the asteroid. It was not the asteroid that destroyed the system. The asteroid was nothing but a "tool" to release the energy.
 Period.
ME3 - we a netwrok of relays fall apart and a massive shockwaves. Given the evidence (which is Arrival) every system having a relay in it dies.

Like I said energy can be loosed in many non destructive ways. Destroying a relay in a different way would mean the energy would be released in a different way.
Period.
Arrival proves Asteroid+Relay=Supernova and nothing else.

It also doesn't disprove Crucible Blast+Relay=Supernova or Supernova strength shockwave

disrpove?

Is that how you argue with people?

You can't prove god doesn't exist, therefore it does?

oh wow.

Seems like I've spent the past 1 hour explaining things to a brick wall.

I want it back ;(