42 réponses à ce sujet

[Skirlasvoud]

I find myself filled with loathing every time someone refers to me as a Grey Warden when I guide my Dwarven Noble through Dragon Age. There's no real basis to be loyal to the organization, or any redeeming features to call yourself a Grey Warden with any degree of pride or distinction.

*Spoilers*

From what I understand, a Grey Warden is defined by two things: A fanatical devotion to destroying darkspawn, and drinking tainted blood.
Well, that's not saying much, does it?

By that definition, if you sick a Mabari on a Darkspawn, the dog is a grey warden the moment he bites one of them.
The only difference between the grey wardens and the dwarves - who have been fighting Darkspawn for almost a millenia - is that the dwarves don't dilliberatly drink blood. A fact which is by the way easily remedied judging by the way blood gets EVERYWHERE after a decent fight. All it takes is a severed grenlock artiry and a badly timed warcry.


And I haven't even began to have my say on Duncan't questionable recruitment tactics. I've played through every Origin story now, and the jist of it is the same:

"Either you die a horrible death as misunderstood, or you join the Grey wardens, a zealous organization fully commited to dieing a horrible death. If you have any doubt at all, you'll die a horrible death at our hands." 
The only thing Duncan's missing at that twisted piece of logic, is an Afghan cave and a white towel around his head.

That Darkspawn Alpha axe to the head couldn't have happened to a  nicer person than Duncan. Self-righteous git. And shame on him for giving Cailan such high hopes. 

I can see how persueing the game as a Grey Warden after Ostaggar is the best choice. At least that gets me into places I wouldn't be able to access as a commoner and the treaties are usefull to say the least. But must people constantly drone on for the rest of the game about how "I can't return to my old life." and that this is my "sacred duty". Yes Wynne, I'm reffering to you you naieve old sweetheart. I love your healing spells but would you shut up for once? Not once could I find "I don't intend to be a grey warden after this is all over." between my dialogue options.
Not only that, but Feralden turns into a dangerous place for Grey Wardens after Ostaggar and the Grey Wardens are all but gone in the Region. It would be both wise and satisfying to give up the role and title of Grey Warden in all but treaty, but STILL Alistair and many of Feralden's  can't help but adress me as Warden. I would very much like to relinquish my role.

Damn air addled surfacers... The last of my people are dying at the hands of the darkspawn and suddenly they become a priority just because they're starting to blight. 




All in all, it would be great if I could more actively voice my disgust for the Grey Wardens in the game and hide my identity.

In Mass Effect and KOTOR, I didn't mind the tranformation into a hero at all. I really had the feeling like I had a choice to become a spectre/Jedi , and even if I could refuse, I wouldn't, simply because my role seemed like a step up. The Grey Wardens simply shackle you instead of make you feel special.

[Herr Uhl]

They want to kill the archdemon. It's their job, and the end justifies the means.



And you need some archdemon blood to become a grey warden.

[Darth_Trethon]

Ughhh......the Gray Wardens don't just drink darkspawn blood.....anyone and anything can do that. The ritual is secret in part because what they drink is a potion very difficult to prepare that also contains blood from the last defeated archdemon.

[Axterix]

There's a bit more to being a Grey Warden than drinking the blood.

First, there's more to the ritual than drinking the blood. There are other required ingredients. You'll learn this in Howe's place.

Second, you need a Grey Warden to kill the archdemon. Well, that or a blood magic ritual + getting a gal preggers, and that still requires a grey warden, a relatively newly made one at that.

Third, being a warden is a death sentence. You've got 30 years.

There are a lot of conversation options about wanting out, just wanting power, or lying about being a warden though.

Being a Warden should give you some sort of dark spawn tracking ability though. After all, they are supposed to be able to sense them, yet as far as that goes, they are no different than any other creature.

Modifié par Axterix, 27 novembre 2009 - 09:48 .

[Axterix]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Ughhh......the Gray Wardens don't just drink darkspawn blood.....anyone and anything can do that. The ritual is secret in part because what they drink is a potion very difficult to prepare that also contains blood from the last defeated archdemon.

Which does beg the question:  How'd they defeat the first archdemon?  A horde of Grey Wardens showed up and turned the tide.

Did they sneak someone into the darkspawn camp and sucker the archdemon into donating blood to help wounded darkspawn or something?

[ReubenLiew]

They might've killed the Archdemon only to have it transfer it's soul to another Darkspawn, so that's where they got their blood probably.



And Warden's are all reputated to be warriors without equal, not something normal folks will put to the test lightly.

[marshalleck]

That's a good question. I've wondered about that myself. Perhaps there is an even more significant reveal about the Wardens in upcoming expansions or sequels.

[Wissenschaft]

Axterix wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Ughhh......the Gray Wardens don't just drink darkspawn blood.....anyone and anything can do that. The ritual is secret in part because what they drink is a potion very difficult to prepare that also contains blood from the last defeated archdemon.

Which does beg the question:  How'd they defeat the first archdemon?  A horde of Grey Wardens showed up and turned the tide.

Did they sneak someone into the darkspawn camp and sucker the archdemon into donating blood to help wounded darkspawn or something?

Just like in this game, a team of grey wardens took on the archdemon and slayed it.

[Darth_Trethon]

Axterix wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Ughhh......the Gray Wardens don't just drink darkspawn blood.....anyone and anything can do that. The ritual is secret in part because what they drink is a potion very difficult to prepare that also contains blood from the last defeated archdemon.

Which does beg the question:  How'd they defeat the first archdemon?  A horde of Grey Wardens showed up and turned the tide.

Did they sneak someone into the darkspawn camp and sucker the archdemon into donating blood to help wounded darkspawn or something?

ROFL.....no I figure that it was likely by accident......drinking darkspawn blood is kind of har to avoid when it's splattering in your face while trying to breathe and the archdemon blood came probably in a similar fassion while trying to kill it. I immagine the remaining gray wardens were left to figure out what changed and why the one killing the dragon died. I doubt they killed it on the first attempt since they know that if the dragon dies it transfers to a nearby darkspawn......so there you have it. They probably had a body of the archdemon long before killing it.

[marshalleck]

Wissenschaft wrote...

Axterix wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Ughhh......the Gray Wardens don't just drink darkspawn blood.....anyone and anything can do that. The ritual is secret in part because what they drink is a potion very difficult to prepare that also contains blood from the last defeated archdemon.

Which does beg the question:  How'd they defeat the first archdemon?  A horde of Grey Wardens showed up and turned the tide.

Did they sneak someone into the darkspawn camp and sucker the archdemon into donating blood to help wounded darkspawn or something?

Just like in this game, a team of grey wardens took on the archdemon and slayed it.

If you require blood of an Archdemon to make a Grey Warden, how did Grey Wardens kill the first Archdemon? 

It's a "chicken or egg" paradox. but perhaps it is as the other guy said. The Archdemon respawned and the people who killed it somehow deduced what was going on.

I still suspect there are more secrets about the Wardens, however.

[Axterix]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

ROFL.....no I figure that it was likely by accident......drinking darkspawn blood is kind of har to avoid when it's splattering in your face while trying to breathe and the archdemon blood came probably in a similar fassion while trying to kill it. I immagine the remaining gray wardens were left to figure out what changed and why the one killing the dragon died. I doubt they killed it on the first attempt since they know that if the dragon dies it transfers to a nearby darkspawn......so there you have it. They probably had a body of the archdemon long before killing it.

Yeah, probably.

Odds are the first time around they killed the dragon, then the new darkspawn lord, then the one after that, and so on, doing okay, but losing ground, without the wardens.

Guess some mages did some heavy research, figured out how to stop the transfer, and that led to the first Grey Wardens, after the blood donor team infilitrated.

Modifié par Axterix, 27 novembre 2009 - 07:14 .

[Herr Uhl]

The archdemon transfers, the dragon body still is dead. So that isn't that much of a problem.



How they figured that drinking archdemon blood made you able to absorb the essence of an archdemon while killing it beats me though.

[marshalleck]

Herr Uhl wrote...

The archdemon transfers, the dragon body still is dead. So that isn't that much of a problem.

How they figured that drinking archdemon blood made you able to absorb the essence of an archdemon while killing it beats me though.

Sounds like forbidden blood magic to me.

Let's see. Corrupt Old Gods, arcane blood magic rituals...Tevinter Imperium, anyone?

Modifié par marshalleck, 27 novembre 2009 - 07:16 .

[Axterix]

Herr Uhl wrote...

The archdemon transfers, the dragon body still is dead. So that isn't that much of a problem.

How they figured that drinking archdemon blood made you able to absorb the essence of an archdemon while killing it beats me though.

I'm figuring research by mages, most likely blood magic research.

First, they figured out that the demon is actually transferring.  Then they had to figure out how to stop that transfer from happening.

It is either that or else the guy who helped killed one archdemon wound up chugging down some blood and then wound up striking the death blow on the next incarnation of said demon.  And then research afterwards to figure out why that happened.

Given that grey wardens came into existance and turned the tide of the battle, I'd say the more likely possibility is research first, then killing an archdemon, otherwise, why keep archdemon blood around?

Of course, another possibility is that regular darkspawn blood can do the trick, that attempts to cure the blood poisoning led to the accidental creation of the first wardens, potentially even the killing of the first archdemon, and further research into the matter led to improvements on the technique, higher survivability, insured archdemon kill, if you used archdemon blood.

[marshalleck]

If the ritual is related to blood magic, that's just one more reason to keep the secret safe on penalty of death. Drinking darkspawn blood is bad enough, but using darkspawn blood in a blood magic ritual...there are just limits to what 'civilized' folk will tolerate.

[Athnamos]

Where does this notion of drinking archdemon blood coming from? Is there a passage in the codex or the lore??

[Herr Uhl]

Athnamos wrote...

Where does this notion of drinking archdemon blood coming from? Is there a passage in the codex or the lore??

Riordan mentions it.

[orpheus333]

Axterix wrote...
Being a Warden should give you some sort of dark spawn tracking ability though. After all, they are supposed to be able to sense them, yet as far as that goes, they are no different than any other creature.

This might be nice lore mod to create have limited ability to track only darkspawn enemies on the mini map similar to the survival skill.

As far as the ritual itself goes i believe it is far more involved than just drinking tainted blood. The Grey Wardens already require the Magi in Ostagar for some reason. At least thats what the argument between the mage and Alistair tells you. I don;t think its a massive jump in logic to assume that the ritual is what they are needed for. Perhaps this part of the reason the mages are in the fade during your first visit to their camp. (I'm just assuming thats what they need 3 or 4 mages all casting for).

And as Roidran(sp?) states during landsmeet. After the joining whether you like it or not you are a Grey Warden. Either the darkspawn will find you, or you will find them but either way you will be fighting them for the rest of your life.

Modifié par andyr1986, 27 novembre 2009 - 08:04 .

[Nooneyouknow13]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Athnamos wrote...

Where does this notion of drinking archdemon blood coming from? Is there a passage in the codex or the lore??

Riordan mentions it.

Considering how bloody easy to miss that one line is, I get the feeling it was something they scrapped and simply missed a line while they were backing that plot thread out.  There are thousands of wardens outside Ferelden. And the entire lot of them needs reaplced every 30 years. the last blight, and therefore Archdemon was 400 years ago.  even using the "one drop" and magic freezer logic it just seems a stretch to still have any reserves of the last archdemons blood to me. 

It has always seemed far more likely to me to simply be darkspawn blood and lyrium.

Modifié par Nooneyouknow13, 27 novembre 2009 - 08:09 .

[Ulrik the Slayer]

I don't know about you guys, but I'm pretty sure I got those vials of blood from normal darkspawns....

[Dark83]

Clearly it was transformed by ENCHANTMENT!

[marshalleck]

I knew there was something strangely sinister about Sandal.

[Nyaore]

Nooneyouknow13 wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Athnamos wrote...

Where does this notion of drinking archdemon blood coming from? Is there a passage in the codex or the lore??

Riordan mentions it.

Considering how bloody easy to miss that one line is, I get the feeling it was something they scrapped and simply missed a line while they were backing that plot thread out.  There are thousands of wardens outside Ferelden. And the entire lot of them needs reaplced every 30 years. the last blight, and therefore Archdemon was 400 years ago.  even using the "one drop" and magic freezer logic it just seems a stretch to still have any reserves of the last archdemons blood to me. 

It has always seemed far more likely to me to simply be darkspawn blood and lyrium.

Well give the size of the Archdemon's in their dragon forms it doesn't surprise me that they'd still have some blood laying around if they used blood magic to siphon it all out of the corpse. You'd get at least one huge barrel of blood from doing that, or more likely around two, which should last if you aren't wasteful. Besides there's also the blood from all the Archdemons of the past, I don't recall Riordan ever mentioning it HAD to be from the last Archdemon to die, which can add up when you really think about it. Granted, I'm sure they were probably scrapping the bottom of the barrel by the time this Blight occurred.
I wonder if there were any spells under the blood magic discipline that would allow one to duplicate the blood they had on hand... Should have harassed Avernus when I had the chance... >_>

Modifié par Nyaore, 27 novembre 2009 - 08:50 .

[Iovantucarus]

Some of this may come into your answer with the Soldier's peak place. And I say this because you meet this old coot who through blood magic has found ways to help you out and become more kick-ass. That is of course only if you drink the crazy looking potion. But think about it like this. Grey wardens were around before the current human kingdom, before blood magic was considered totally evil, before a lot of the current situations.

[SilkyChicken]

Nyaore wrote...

Nooneyouknow13 wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Athnamos wrote...

Where does this notion of drinking archdemon blood coming from? Is there a passage in the codex or the lore??

Riordan mentions it.

Considering how bloody easy to miss that one line is, I get the feeling it was something they scrapped and simply missed a line while they were backing that plot thread out.  There are thousands of wardens outside Ferelden. And the entire lot of them needs reaplced every 30 years. the last blight, and therefore Archdemon was 400 years ago.  even using the "one drop" and magic freezer logic it just seems a stretch to still have any reserves of the last archdemons blood to me. 

It has always seemed far more likely to me to simply be darkspawn blood and lyrium.

Well give the size of the Archdemon's in their dragon forms it doesn't surprise me that they'd still have some blood laying around if they used blood magic to siphon it all out of the corpse. You'd get at least one huge barrel of blood from doing that, or more likely around two, which should last if you aren't wasteful. Besides there's also the blood from all the Archdemons of the past, I don't recall Riordan ever mentioning it HAD to be from the last Archdemon to die, which can add up when you really think about it. Granted, I'm sure they were probably scrapping the bottom of the barrel by the time this Blight occurred.
I wonder if there were any spells under the blood magic discipline that would allow one to duplicate the blood they had on hand... Should have harassed Avernus when I had the chance... >_>

So a truly smart archdemon would wait until the all the archdemon blood ran out, and then all the grey wardens would die off.  It would take a while, but thats what cardgames are for.