42 réponses à ce sujet

[DeathTyrant]

But you gave them to Duncan, yes? The next time you see that 4 recruits worth of blood it is in a single chalice. Duncan would have added the Archdemon blood at some point before you drinking it.



As to the

[Nyaore]

SilkyChicken wrote...

Nyaore wrote...

Nooneyouknow13 wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Athnamos wrote...

Where does this notion of drinking archdemon blood coming from? Is there a passage in the codex or the lore??

Riordan mentions it.

Considering how bloody easy to miss that one line is, I get the feeling it was something they scrapped and simply missed a line while they were backing that plot thread out.  There are thousands of wardens outside Ferelden. And the entire lot of them needs reaplced every 30 years. the last blight, and therefore Archdemon was 400 years ago.  even using the "one drop" and magic freezer logic it just seems a stretch to still have any reserves of the last archdemons blood to me. 

It has always seemed far more likely to me to simply be darkspawn blood and lyrium.

Well give the size of the Archdemon's in their dragon forms it doesn't surprise me that they'd still have some blood laying around if they used blood magic to siphon it all out of the corpse. You'd get at least one huge barrel of blood from doing that, or more likely around two, which should last if you aren't wasteful. Besides there's also the blood from all the Archdemons of the past, I don't recall Riordan ever mentioning it HAD to be from the last Archdemon to die, which can add up when you really think about it. Granted, I'm sure they were probably scrapping the bottom of the barrel by the time this Blight occurred.
I wonder if there were any spells under the blood magic discipline that would allow one to duplicate the blood they had on hand... Should have harassed Avernus when I had the chance... >_>

So a truly smart archdemon would wait until the all the archdemon blood ran out, and then all the grey wardens would die off.  It would take a while, but thats what cardgames are for.

Archdemon: Anyone up for a round of War?

[Akka le Vil]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Ughhh......the Gray Wardens don't just drink darkspawn blood.....anyone and anything can do that. The ritual is secret in part because what they drink is a potion very difficult to prepare that also contains blood from the last defeated archdemon.

You'd wonder how they could become Grey Warden and kill the first Archdemon

I don't even want to wonder about how they could imagine such a ritual in the first place. That's pretty hindsight reverse engineering.

Also, the fanatical devotion to fight Darkspawn is the first and foremost prerequisite to be a Grey Warden, and it's nevertheless strangely absent from every recruiting in the game. Weird.

Modifié par Akka le Vil, 27 novembre 2009 - 09:45 .

[Skirlasvoud]

Oh wonderfull. Just when I thought being a Grey Warden couldn't get any worse. I've been bloody poisoned without even knowing! They've already killed me!


As you may have understood from earlier comments,  Alistair isn't my favourite teammember and I just asked him. And there he went again with the "It's not how you die, it's how you live." and "You know why you're here." rethoric, leaving me without a single option to crack his skull open.  

You know, I've changed my mind about this organization. I thought that Bioware simply screwed up making a believable hero organization. Now I see they never intended to make paragons out of the Grey Wardens. They're just as bad as any other zealot and this must be what Bioware intended. It's just a shame they didn't see fit to give me more options to start actively opposing Grey Wardens and outright denouncing your role.  

You know, my dwarf is a noble creature, but I do think I'll spend the rest of my 30 years slaughtering Grey Wardens untill they find me a cure, or Orzammar declares me king for whatever's left of my lifespan. I'm beginning to see why Loghain might want the Grey Wardens killed.  

Modifié par Skirlasvoud, 27 novembre 2009 - 09:47 .

[Herr Uhl]

Skirlasvoud wrote...


Oh wonderfull. Just when I thought being a Grey Warden couldn't get any worse. I've been bloody poisoned!


As you may have understood from earlier comments,  Alistair isn't my favourite teammember and I just asked him. And there he went again with the "It's not how you die, it's how you live." and "You know why you're here." rethoric, leaving me without a single option to crack his skull open.  

You know, I've changed my mind about this organization. I thought that Bioware simply screwed up making a believable hero organization. Now I see they never intended to make paragons out of the Grey Wardens. They're just as bad as any other zealot and this must be what Bioware intended. It's just a shame they didn't see fit to give me more options to start actively opposing Grey Wardens and outright denouncing your role.  

You know, my dwarf is a noble creature, but I do think I'll spend the rest of my 30 years slaughtering Grey Wardens untill they find me a cure, or Orzammar declares me king for whatever's left of my lifespan. I'm beginning to see why Loghain might want the Grey Wardens killed.  

And this is why Duncan killed Jory.

[marshalleck]

Really...why do you think they are called Grey Wardens, and not Super Shining Armor Paladins of Goodness.  Sheesh.



I wonder if Bioware writers ever feel frustrated, or forced into writing plots and characters that are less interesting than they could be, because a large portion of their player base would simply become confused and angry at the first signs of depth and complexity?

Modifié par marshalleck, 27 novembre 2009 - 10:45 .

[sagevallant]

You don't have to kill something to get its blood, you just have to fight it rather successfully. Riordan managed to tear half the archdemon's wing up, while in flight. You'd think he could've been less suicidal about it, but whatever.



If you paid attention in Orzammar then you caught on that the dwarves had their legions of golems during the first blight. I'm sure they were very helpful; I know Shale's been pretty helpful to me so far.

[Saurel]

Skirlasvoud wrote...



In Mass Effect and KOTOR, I didn't mind the tranformation into a hero at all. I really had the feeling like I had a choice to become a spectre/Jedi , and even if I could refuse, I wouldn't, simply because my role seemed like a step up. The Grey Wardens simply shackle you instead of make you feel special.

I don't know I'm not that big a fan of being made to feel special via group association (Spectre, Jedi) 

Though obviously KOTOR had a bit more going on since the character is a bit more........pre-defined..

[MatronAdena]

Not once could I find "I don't intend to be a grey warden after this is all over." between my dialogue options.

thats alright though, because your days are limited and way... just gotta put up with tthe Warden talk for about three decades, then it's gonna come to an end ;P


I personally see the wardens in my mind as more than darkspawn slayers, I see guardians, something similar to a Jedi, though not as tied into another body. And " so far" all my characters have followed that basic idea, sometimes the greater good may not always have the most likeable cost, but more or less I'm there to serve others. Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Cast, wealth, none of those things matter. Atleast thats my spin on them.

[Dark83]

What kind of vindictive and immature brat will go "Oh, so now I only have 30 years left to live, **** you guys, I'll just let the world end... and die in less than 30 years." <_<

Modifié par Dark83, 28 novembre 2009 - 03:20 .

[Naturalus]

marshalleck wrote...

If you require blood of an Archdemon to make a Grey Warden, how did Grey Wardens kill the first Archdemon? 

It's a "chicken or egg" paradox. but perhaps it is as the other guy said. The Archdemon respawned and the people who killed it somehow deduced what was going on.

I still suspect there are more secrets about the Wardens, however.

Maker gave chosen ones vision what to do without doubt. Just like maker gave Leliana vision to help PC Warden.

Maybe one of those helpful spirits of the fade that saved Wynnes life told them what to do while first grey warden wannabe was sleeping and dreaming in the fade.

Its not that hard actually to figure out.

Modifié par Naturalus, 28 novembre 2009 - 07:16 .

[Maria Caliban]

marshalleck wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

The archdemon transfers, the dragon body still is dead. So that isn't that much of a problem.

How they figured that drinking archdemon blood made you able to absorb the essence of an archdemon while killing it beats me though.

Sounds like forbidden blood magic to me.

Let's see. Corrupt Old Gods, arcane blood magic rituals...Tevinter Imperium, anyone?

Yes, the first Blight happened within the Imperium long before the founding of the Chantry.

Moreover, dragon cults routinely drink the blood of dragons, which is a throwback to the worship of the Old Gods of the Imperium.

Drinking the archdemon’s blood was probably the first thing they did.

[Skirlasvoud]

marshalleck wrote...

Really...why do you think they are called Grey Wardens, and not Super Shining Armor Paladins of Goodness.  Sheesh.

I wonder if Bioware writers ever feel frustrated, or forced into writing plots and characters that are less interesting than they could be, because a large portion of their player base would simply become confused and angry at the first signs of depth and complexity?

You're mistaking anger with dissapointment Marshalleck. I myself am quite pleased with the storyline of Dragon Age. That I actually find myself with such intense feelings of betrayel and vindication, says a lot about my inmersion into the game and the skill of the writers. I'll remember this game for a long time to come.

The only thing that I can really complain about, is the way that the game seems to revere the gray wardens and contradict itself. It's like having a guy in the upper right corner of your screen, constantly holding up a blue pen, telling you its red. After a hundred times it gets annoying and if the game would give me some way to remedy it, me and the story would get on just peachy.

[Skirlasvoud]

Dark83 wrote...

What kind of vindictive and immature brat will go "Oh, so now I only have 30 years left to live, **** you guys, I'll just let the world end... and die in less than 30 years." <_<

The kind of brat who gets forced into service, poisoned and lied to.

What if Hamlet found out his uncle murdered his way on the throne, and then decided to do nothing about it since god forbid that might break the peace? It would be the end of every good revenge story in the history of literature.


I've just finished "Anvil of the Void". 

What would you do if you were torn from your home by the early dwarven kings, got killed and fashioned into a metal body? Just shrug, accept your lot in life and get on with what people intend you to do?

It's an injustice, commited by fanatical extremists. To stop it, certain stoic individuals with strong principals must rise up and combat such injustices no matter the cost. The very same individuals you would call "vindictive and immature".

The end does not justify the means and I have every right to feel irate.

[Dakota Strider]

The main reason I see the Grey Wardens as special, is Self Sacrifice. Just becoming a Grey Warden apparently kills most of the applicants. And even if you never die in battle, your life expectancy is only 30 years. And should you battle the Archdemon, you could be expected to give not just your life, but your soul to destroy it.



All of this to protect the lives of others, so they need not suffer. You sacrifice any chance of a normal life, and join a select few that have chosen to do the same. Its a bond that is stronger than blood. It is much the same as those that have volunteered for military duty and experienced combat, and lost comrades.



It is a thankless duty, for the most part. And not all that are Wardens volunteered. However, being drafted does not diminish the sacrifce you are forced to make. If nothing else, it makes your sacrifice even more extreme, since your selection was made so that others could avoid your fate.



So, if the Wardens seem overly proud, or perhaps arrogant, remember what they have given up to be who they are. Remember the sacrifices of former Wardens, and think of the future sacrifices every Warden may be asked to make.

[Pyrusx]

Skirlasvoud wrote...
...

The end does not justify the means and I have every right to feel irate.

Well, you may not believe so, but it is a fairly common ethical standpoint, and it is one the wardens obviously hold very strongly. Their end result is good, therefore they must do whatever is necessary to reach that goal because no one else can.

This is why everyone else seems to respect them; they're figures of myth/legend with the only thing that most people know about them is they're the heroes that are the only ones capable of ending the blight. Not many (any?) people know the wardens actively use blood magic or kill recruits trying to back not.

I mean, sure, the game forces you to play a bit nice and save the world, but if it didn't, there wouldn't be much of a game, right? I guess there is that option in not playing if you stand that opposed to being a grey warden.

I think the issue is that game developers don't like to give you a dialogue choice to end the game. I mean, if you had an option around Lothering to say "Screw the blight, I'm going to go to Orlais," and then 'Your Journey Ends' pops up, well, I imagine there are a lot more people who would have a problem with that than those who would appreciate it.

Maybe it should've given more options to directly oppose the idea you support the warden's ideals; but how is that going to look to the elves or dwarves or anyone else you might recruit? Standing in direct opposition to the banner you're trying to recruit them under (and the only one they're obligated to follow) doesn't make a strong case for your character.

..and, sure, many changes were brought about by those who took a stand against it, but it doesn't make sense to try to bring about good through change by actively opposing the only people capable of defeating the end of the world. At least not while the world is in threat of being ended. I think that makes you more like another Loghain. Sure you might think you're doing some good for the world/country, but you're really just another threat to ending the blight.

After the game, who knows? It could be entirely believable for a character to run about preaching the horrors of the wardens, killing them to demand a cure. I imagine though it wouldn't be long before the wardens did something to ensure silence. Or maybe the darkspawn might just find a tasty snack.


.../ramble

[Grovermancer]

I've been thinking the same thing.

Being a Grey Warden is SOOOOOO overrated.

There's essentially NO benefit, and nothing but negatives.


They should just bribe a bunch of bums to drink the blood/lyrium/demon-blood concoction, take the ones that live, keep them in the background, then when the archdemon is laying there about to croak, let the bum Grey Warden stick the deathblow.

That's basically all they're good for!

What other benefit is there?

Able to "sense" Darkspawn?  SO WHAT?  What good does that actually do you, in-game?

Just bribe the bum-Grey Wardens with food and wenches and such, and use them for the kill-blow ever few centuries.


Why risk losing all your best, cream-of-the-crop warriors and mages with 'the Joining?"  How stupid.


Just put a bunch of shmoes through the joining, pamper them til the day arrives, then let them do the deed.  Don't even tell them they'll die; tell them they're doing it for honor or glory or some other such nonsense.


Probably the only way Grey Warden's even came to be, there was a big bash orgy and they were all getting drunk at Weisshaupt fortress, and someone accidentally drank some Darkspawn blood, and next thing you know, the drunkards are all doing it, then the next day they can hear the Darkspawn, and there you go.

[Dakota Strider]

The one thing I have wondered about the recruiting of Grey Wardens....why select them so young? Why not wait for those that have proven themselves through years of battle and other testing? Perhaps around ages 40-50. Then the 30 year duration of the taint will not seem like such a painful death sentence.



I suppose there will be some rationale, that biologically, someone too old cannot survive the ritual to become a Warden. Or perhaps they will say that taking the ritual at an older age, means you will get far less than 30 years to live with the taint.



However, since that was never stated, I would think that this is a ritual that should be reserved for those that have already lived several decades of a normal life. Had a chance to father/mother some untainted children, if they so chose. It would also give those that have experienced much of what life has to offer, a purpose to serve.