warlock22 wrote...
Luder09 wrote...
Sodrer wrote...
I want to see my little blue childrens!!!
Yes please!
I second that!
anihilato wrote...
This is pretty much what i hoped for and expected when i was told that a "perfect" or "good" ending could be achieved. During the game, my shepards relationship with Garrus was one of the most emotional experiences i have had with videogames, and having it all come together, with the 2 of them getting back from kicking reaper ass, would be just the thing i would have loved.
Absolutely I completely agree! Very well said. Hold the line for this people!DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...
Please read this. It is a list of the reasons I think the option for a happy ending is just as logical and valid as a bleak one.
Some people in the press and on the internet have been slaming the retake mass effect crowd as people who just wanted happy ending as if there is something about that that is in and of it's self wrong. I would like to explain why I think the option of a happy ending is just as logical and level headed as a bleak ending.
First off Shepard is not a tragic hero.
The tragic hero awlays does something to set up his own fate and then he dies either fighting for what he believes in or saving others from what he set in motion.
Hamlet is a tragic hero because he single mindlly goes out for revenge while ignoring the costs to the living people he loves and in the endi he gets it but only buy dieing because he caused the deaths of so many others.
Darth Vader is a Tragic hero because he help the Emporer come to and stay in power and in the end the only way to save luke was to give up his own life.
Londo from Babylon 5 is a tragic hero because he he turned to the shadows when he had lost all hope for his people and a lot of people died but when he was given the choice of having more people die or getting a keeper put on him(an action he knew would take away his free will,lose him his friends,and in the end lead to his death)he choose to have the keep put on him instead of letting more people die.
Mordon is a Tragic hero because he chooses to die to undo action he choose years ago.
For Shepard to be a tragic hero he would have had to do something to help bring about the mess the galaxy was in in the first place and then choose to give his own life saving other. If Bioware always wanted Shepard to be a tragic hero in the last two games they should have done one of two things.
1)they could have had Shepard some how by mistake be the one who opened the door to the Reapers and let them return to the Galaxy.
or
2)Have Shepard be willingly brought back by Curberus and thus putting them into the postion of being able to cause trouble in ME3.
Neither of this things happened. The Reapers were coming back no matter what Shepard did and Curberus brought him back against his will. he didn't choose anything that happened so he can't be a tragic hero because he never had controll over he events and there was never a moment where he made a tragic choice.
Now we move onto another big reason.
Forshadowing.
Chekhov is said to have said once if a gun is shown on the table in the first act it must be fired by the first act.
Now the rules of drama change just bit in an interactive medium but the roles of good drama still apply,so if you don't mind i will reword it for video games.
If a type of ending is set up or forshadowed in a video game there must be a way for the play to reach that end.
Video games are the first medium where writers can give people multiple endings with out cheapening them so I am not surprised so many writters are having trouble with this but the fact remains in good drama you don't forshadow something that never has a chance of happening.
Mass Effect is interesting in this requard in that in the three games the player was given control over what he forshadowed. You could choose to have a Shepard who was losing hope and pushing people away or you could shoose to have a Shepard who had hope and was building galaxy that would be better once the Reapers were gone.
If you chose the hopefull options then the bleak ending is out of place and jars with the rest of the story up to that point and does not feel like an extension of it or it's message. If you choose to help the Krogan,make peace between the Quarenians and the Geth,prepose to Laria the story is being set up for a hopeful end where after all the death the galaxy will be left intact and able to rebuild. Get people to work together for just one battle and then cutting them off from each other is out of place in this type of story. If you choose hopeful options like tell your ship's doctor to save the drinks until victory the story is forshadowing a happy ending where there is a victory. The story's meessage for almost three games with the paragon options is that is people pull together and put aside the old problems they can over come anything and build a better world even after there has been so much death. By taking away even an option where the hero can live and the Mass realies remain intact so that all the race can continue to work together the message of the end does not match that of the rest of the story and in fact makes the long story kind of pointless since there are two competing ideas at it's heart and the player is not even given the option of choosing whcih to follow through on.
This is why I think having the option of a happy ending is just as logical and adult a conclusion as a bleak ending.
Anyone else agree?
Hold the line for as long as it takes people.
warlock22 wrote...
Absolutely I completely agree! Very well said. Hold the line for this people!DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...
Please read this. It is a list of the reasons I think the option for a happy ending is just as logical and valid as a bleak one.
Some people in the press and on the internet have been slaming the retake mass effect crowd as people who just wanted happy ending as if there is something about that that is in and of it's self wrong. I would like to explain why I think the option of a happy ending is just as logical and level headed as a bleak ending.
First off Shepard is not a tragic hero.
The tragic hero awlays does something to set up his own fate and then he dies either fighting for what he believes in or saving others from what he set in motion.
Hamlet is a tragic hero because he single mindlly goes out for revenge while ignoring the costs to the living people he loves and in the endi he gets it but only buy dieing because he caused the deaths of so many others.
Darth Vader is a Tragic hero because he help the Emporer come to and stay in power and in the end the only way to save luke was to give up his own life.
Londo from Babylon 5 is a tragic hero because he he turned to the shadows when he had lost all hope for his people and a lot of people died but when he was given the choice of having more people die or getting a keeper put on him(an action he knew would take away his free will,lose him his friends,and in the end lead to his death)he choose to have the keep put on him instead of letting more people die.
Mordon is a Tragic hero because he chooses to die to undo action he choose years ago.
For Shepard to be a tragic hero he would have had to do something to help bring about the mess the galaxy was in in the first place and then choose to give his own life saving other. If Bioware always wanted Shepard to be a tragic hero in the last two games they should have done one of two things.
1)they could have had Shepard some how by mistake be the one who opened the door to the Reapers and let them return to the Galaxy.
or
2)Have Shepard be willingly brought back by Curberus and thus putting them into the postion of being able to cause trouble in ME3.
Neither of this things happened. The Reapers were coming back no matter what Shepard did and Curberus brought him back against his will. he didn't choose anything that happened so he can't be a tragic hero because he never had controll over he events and there was never a moment where he made a tragic choice.
Now we move onto another big reason.
Forshadowing.
Chekhov is said to have said once if a gun is shown on the table in the first act it must be fired by the first act.
Now the rules of drama change just bit in an interactive medium but the roles of good drama still apply,so if you don't mind i will reword it for video games.
If a type of ending is set up or forshadowed in a video game there must be a way for the play to reach that end.
Video games are the first medium where writers can give people multiple endings with out cheapening them so I am not surprised so many writters are having trouble with this but the fact remains in good drama you don't forshadow something that never has a chance of happening.
Mass Effect is interesting in this requard in that in the three games the player was given control over what he forshadowed. You could choose to have a Shepard who was losing hope and pushing people away or you could shoose to have a Shepard who had hope and was building galaxy that would be better once the Reapers were gone.
If you chose the hopefull options then the bleak ending is out of place and jars with the rest of the story up to that point and does not feel like an extension of it or it's message. If you choose to help the Krogan,make peace between the Quarenians and the Geth,prepose to Laria the story is being set up for a hopeful end where after all the death the galaxy will be left intact and able to rebuild. Get people to work together for just one battle and then cutting them off from each other is out of place in this type of story. If you choose hopeful options like tell your ship's doctor to save the drinks until victory the story is forshadowing a happy ending where there is a victory. The story's meessage for almost three games with the paragon options is that is people pull together and put aside the old problems they can over come anything and build a better world even after there has been so much death. By taking away even an option where the hero can live and the Mass realies remain intact so that all the race can continue to work together the message of the end does not match that of the rest of the story and in fact makes the long story kind of pointless since there are two competing ideas at it's heart and the player is not even given the option of choosing whcih to follow through on.
This is why I think having the option of a happy ending is just as logical and adult a conclusion as a bleak ending.
Anyone else agree?
Hold the line for as long as it takes people.
Avatar231278 wrote...
Boah. The only thing in my life I agreed more, was when I said "I do" to my bride.
DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...
Please read this. It is a list of the reasons I think the option for a happy ending is just as logical and valid as a bleak one
....
Forshadowing.
Chekhov is said to have said once if a gun is shown on the table in the first act it must be fired by the first act.
Now the rules of drama change just bit in an interactive medium but the roles of good drama still apply,so if you don't mind i will reword it for video games.
If a type of ending is set up or forshadowed in a video game there must be a way for the play to reach that end.
Video games are the first medium where writers can give people multiple endings with out cheapening them so I am not surprised so many writters are having trouble with this but the fact remains in good drama you don't forshadow something that never has a chance of happening.
Mass Effect is interesting in this requard in that in the three games the player was given control over what he forshadowed. You could choose to have a Shepard who was losing hope and pushing people away or you could shoose to have a Shepard who had hope and was building galaxy that would be better once the Reapers were gone.
If you chose the hopefull options then the bleak ending is out of place and jars with the rest of the story up to that point and does not feel like an extension of it or it's message. If you choose to help the Krogan,make peace between the Quarenians and the Geth,prepose to Laria the story is being set up for a hopeful end where after all the death the galaxy will be left intact and able to rebuild. Get people to work together for just one battle and then cutting them off from each other is out of place in this type of story. If you choose hopeful options like tell your ship's doctor to save the drinks until victory the story is forshadowing a happy ending where there is a victory. The story's meessage for almost three games with the paragon options is that is people pull together and put aside the old problems they can over come anything and build a better world even after there has been so much death. By taking away even an option where the hero can live and the Mass realies remain intact so that all the race can continue to work together the message of the end does not match that of the rest of the story and in fact makes the long story kind of pointless since there are two competing ideas at it's heart and the player is not even given the option of choosing whcih to follow through on.
This is why I think having the option of a happy ending is just as logical and adult a conclusion as a bleak ending.
Anyone else agree?
Hold the line for as long as it takes people.
Gotthammer666 wrote...
DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...
Please read this. It is a list of the reasons I think the option for a happy ending is just as logical and valid as a bleak one
....
Forshadowing.
Chekhov is said to have said once if a gun is shown on the table in the first act it must be fired by the first act.
Now the rules of drama change just bit in an interactive medium but the roles of good drama still apply,so if you don't mind i will reword it for video games.
If a type of ending is set up or forshadowed in a video game there must be a way for the play to reach that end.
Video games are the first medium where writers can give people multiple endings with out cheapening them so I am not surprised so many writters are having trouble with this but the fact remains in good drama you don't forshadow something that never has a chance of happening.
Mass Effect is interesting in this requard in that in the three games the player was given control over what he forshadowed. You could choose to have a Shepard who was losing hope and pushing people away or you could shoose to have a Shepard who had hope and was building galaxy that would be better once the Reapers were gone.
If you chose the hopefull options then the bleak ending is out of place and jars with the rest of the story up to that point and does not feel like an extension of it or it's message. If you choose to help the Krogan,make peace between the Quarenians and the Geth,prepose to Laria the story is being set up for a hopeful end where after all the death the galaxy will be left intact and able to rebuild. Get people to work together for just one battle and then cutting them off from each other is out of place in this type of story. If you choose hopeful options like tell your ship's doctor to save the drinks until victory the story is forshadowing a happy ending where there is a victory. The story's meessage for almost three games with the paragon options is that is people pull together and put aside the old problems they can over come anything and build a better world even after there has been so much death. By taking away even an option where the hero can live and the Mass realies remain intact so that all the race can continue to work together the message of the end does not match that of the rest of the story and in fact makes the long story kind of pointless since there are two competing ideas at it's heart and the player is not even given the option of choosing whcih to follow through on.
This is why I think having the option of a happy ending is just as logical and adult a conclusion as a bleak ending.
Anyone else agree?
Hold the line for as long as it takes people.
THIS! Exactly this!
Shep and Liara talking about kids and settling down, Tali building her house (with Garrus [and the Geth!]), Wrex leading the Krogan into a new golden age, Kelly finding her new life, Joker and EDI even - all these things were put as real possibilities that I was working towards as a player and as Shepard in character. Sure, it's over the top and unlikely, but that's why I play games like this and read fantasy stories where the hero triumphs against impossible odds.
ObsidianAgent wrote...
Yep - why not? Why not a bunch of endings covering the spectrum from total defeat to total victory? Add in a little epilogue for each of the surviving crew, and the beach ending if we manage to bring 'em all home safely.
ronbo_68 wrote...
You can also see that Shepard is worn down this time around and I can understand the stress is getting to him also. In some of the conversations you can see his replies and relying on his friends to help him through.
Modifié par Avatar231278, 20 mars 2012 - 05:12 .
DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...
Forshadowing.
If a type of ending is set up or forshadowed in a video game there must be a way for the play to reach that end.
Video games are the first medium where writers can give people multiple endings with out cheapening them so I am not surprised so many writters are having trouble with this but the fact remains in good drama you don't forshadow something that never has a chance of happening.
Mass Effect is interesting in this requard in that in the three games the player was given control over what he forshadowed. You could choose to have a Shepard who was losing hope and pushing people away or you could shoose to have a Shepard who had hope and was building galaxy that would be better once the Reapers were gone.
If you chose the hopefull options then the bleak ending is out of place and jars with the rest of the story up to that point and does not feel like an extension of it or it's message. If you choose to help the Krogan,make peace between the Quarenians and the Geth,prepose to Laria the story is being set up for a hopeful end where after all the death the galaxy will be left intact and able to rebuild. Get people to work together for just one battle and then cutting them off from each other is out of place in this type of story. If you choose hopeful options like tell your ship's doctor to save the drinks until victory the story is forshadowing a happy ending where there is a victory. The story's meessage for almost three games with the paragon options is that is people pull together and put aside the old problems they can over come anything and build a better world even after there has been so much death. By taking away even an option where the hero can live and the Mass realies remain intact so that all the race can continue to work together the message of the end does not match that of the rest of the story and in fact makes the long story kind of pointless since there are two competing ideas at it's heart and the player is not even given the option of choosing whcih to follow through on.
This is why I think having the option of a happy ending is just as logical and adult a conclusion as a bleak ending.
Anyone else agree?
Hold the line for as long as it takes people.
nomoredruggs wrote...
DoctorCrowtgamer wrote...
Forshadowing.
If a type of ending is set up or forshadowed in a video game there must be a way for the play to reach that end.
Video games are the first medium where writers can give people multiple endings with out cheapening them so I am not surprised so many writters are having trouble with this but the fact remains in good drama you don't forshadow something that never has a chance of happening.
Mass Effect is interesting in this requard in that in the three games the player was given control over what he forshadowed. You could choose to have a Shepard who was losing hope and pushing people away or you could shoose to have a Shepard who had hope and was building galaxy that would be better once the Reapers were gone.
If you chose the hopefull options then the bleak ending is out of place and jars with the rest of the story up to that point and does not feel like an extension of it or it's message. If you choose to help the Krogan,make peace between the Quarenians and the Geth,prepose to Laria the story is being set up for a hopeful end where after all the death the galaxy will be left intact and able to rebuild. Get people to work together for just one battle and then cutting them off from each other is out of place in this type of story. If you choose hopeful options like tell your ship's doctor to save the drinks until victory the story is forshadowing a happy ending where there is a victory. The story's meessage for almost three games with the paragon options is that is people pull together and put aside the old problems they can over come anything and build a better world even after there has been so much death. By taking away even an option where the hero can live and the Mass realies remain intact so that all the race can continue to work together the message of the end does not match that of the rest of the story and in fact makes the long story kind of pointless since there are two competing ideas at it's heart and the player is not even given the option of choosing whcih to follow through on.
This is why I think having the option of a happy ending is just as logical and adult a conclusion as a bleak ending.
Anyone else agree?
Hold the line for as long as it takes people.
Very well put. It also perhaps explains how some people saw this end coming. For me, it was so abrupt, as every character including my Shepard was reinforcing the idea that I could pull that through....
warlock22 wrote...
So this guys has really good points and the ending he says sounds pretty good!
But i would want the epilogue to not be text. I would much rather see it happen and have dialogue in it. Show all of it with game graphics and dialogue. We deserve that for a perfect ending!
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