178 réponses à ce sujet

[djwhitfield]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Sublyminal wrote...
I've played all endings and in all endings they always explode period. Try paying attention.

 You think I would say this without having triple-checked? Pay closer attention. Particularly to the part where the central part of the Citadel/Crucible is covered by a fireball  - or not - and to the second part of the relay scene where parts fly in all directions. Or not.

You are correct. I just checked the control ending and the Mass Relays are NOT destroyed. They look like there about to explode, but they don't explode. Until they do with the other two endings.

[VinWizzy]

Control just felt straight up wrong and crazy. Synthesis felt weird. I chose destroy as I always wanted to destroy the Reapers and the fact that my Shep was still alive even though he was part synthetic. Maybe the synthetic part of him was gone. Still it was ridiculous how their was a holo AI god kid. It was out of place. I still love the game though.

[Nighthunteer]

clonedoriginzero wrote...

the relays are gone in all 3 endings

^

[Ieldra]

Doomhams wrote...
Did the luna AI really put help me in binary?

IIRC, yes. In ASCII. I actually don't remember if I checked this claim made by a friend of mine. He's a computer geek, though.

[billida]

i chose destroy, in anger towards the nonsensical metaphysical trip Astroboy wanted me to believe, and to make him shut up.

[Ieldra]

djwhitfield wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Sublyminal wrote...
I've played all endings and in all endings they always explode period. Try paying attention.

 You think I would say this without having triple-checked? Pay closer attention. Particularly to the part where the central part of the Citadel/Crucible is covered by a fireball  - or not - and to the second part of the relay scene where parts fly in all directions. Or not.

You are correct. I just checked the control ending and the Mass Relays are NOT destroyed. They look like there about to explode, but they don't explode. Until they do with the other two endings.

Thank you.

[wetnasty]

Well I'm not killing a character I spent 3 games investing time, money, and energy into. So destroy was one of my ONLY options.

[ItsFreakinJesus]

gooberfish311 wrote...

Karrie788 wrote...

I picked Destroy, but I see your point. I personally could never pick Merge. It just... feels... wrong. I can't play God and decide of the entire galaxy's fate like that.

I guess only Control is an acceptable option. Is it?

Don't see how. Control is the option TIM wanted, and TIM was indoctrinated, which means it's what the Reapers wanted TIM to want.

TIM probably wasn't Indoctrinated until the very end.  Had he not subjected himself to his own experiments, he would've been fine. 

Honestly, the ending would've been better if he actually succeeded in hijacking the Reapers.  Would've set up another awesome boss fight.

[CraniumBeavers]

Now that I think about it, the Control ending isn't that bad, assuming Shepard "lives on" somehow and can control the Reapers for all eternity (and chooses never to start the cycles again or some crap).
Someone put it really well in a YouTube comment:

I liked this ending. Shepard didn't force civilizations to become synthesized, nor did he destroy his synthetic allies. He just gave the Reapers what they didn't have: a heart.

I however choose the Destroy option in the foolish hope that it really was all a hallucination, and that the *gasp* at the end is Shepard waking up back on Earth free from Harbinger's manipulation. Ending DLC, here I am.

[Davies993]

Control is presented under the illusion of paragon (the light around it is blue, we associate this with paragon), making the choice seem more appealing. I believe this is because it's what the reapers WANT you to do. Not to mention that TIM, the literal embodyment of renegade, is the one that chooses this. Where as the destroy option is presented as renegade with the red light, and Anderson, what we would associate with paragon, is seen choosing this option. And don't forget, of all the endings, 'Destroy' is the only one that results in the survival of Shepard, provided certain pre-requisites are met.

I believe 'Control' is exactly what the reapers want you to do. Notice how the catalyst stays around for longer when you make this choice, the way it stares at Shepard is very sinister, but then if you choose 'Destroy' he disappears almost instantly.

Synthesis i'm not really sure what to think. It sounds pretty much like what the reapers want too, they combine synthetics and organics by turning them into Husks(Pretty sure I haven't fully understood the process though; details were a bit sketchy).

Also, I'm sure that the relays are destroyed no matter what ending you choose.

Modifié par Davies993, 12 mars 2012 - 07:51 .

[Bamboo33]

The 'star child' clearly states that 'releasing the energy of the Crucible will end the cycle, but it will also destroy the mass relays'.
End of story.

[FiGhTiNCoWBoY]

Just watched all three endings again. There's a small cutscene showing the relay explode in green/red but the same cutscene doesn't exist in blue. Despite that, when the relay fires off the blast you can see parts of the relay beginning to blow off in all 3 endings so whether or not the relay actually explodes in blue is up for discussion. Given that you still have the massive shockwaves coming off all the relays I would assume it does still explode in the blue ending though.

[VampireCommando]

highcastle wrote...

I am personally convinced that Destroy represents the only "good" ending (much as that word can be used). In both the other options, the Reapers endure in one form or another. In Control, I believe Shepard is basically indoctrinated. Certainly that seems to be the case with everyone else who's attempted this before. In Synthesis, the Reapers get what they really want: the assimilation of every human being into their synthetic shells. In short, it's a fast track to making more Reapers (look at the way human beings were harvested--synthesized, really--in the Collector base).

Destroy, on the other hand, represents the only sure way of ridding the galaxy of Reapers. Of course, I'm also of the opinion that much of the ending--if not all of it--takes place in a virtual reality the likes of which we saw in Legion's quest on Rannoch. Somehow Shepard's synthetic consciousness is beamed up on the Citadel to activate the Catalyst. I'm also of the mind that the child is really Harbinger. He goes out of his way to paint Destroy as a terrible option. It's what he fears more than anything, so he tries to present synthesize as the best route. Again, that's what the Reapers have been doing for millions of years: assimilating organics into their own synthetic bodies.

This. As highcastle has already said the reapers have been doing this for millions and millions of years, odds are quite high that they will have faced individuals such as shepard before, not to mention the reapers have un told levels of experiance in wiping out organic life, if you truly belive shepard is the only one to make it to the catalyst then you are quite gulliale. The "star child" is obiously a last ditch attempt of the reapers pulling at shepards emotions and beliefs as the other options quite obviously favor the reapers in both chioces where as destory, the one way to actually end the reapers and they know that you know this and are scared of this.

[Neothanos]

My first pick was control not for power, but to spare the geth and EDI, Synthesis sounds too much like what the Reapers are already doing and I would throw them all in nearest sun.

Destroy would be second and what if my 1 playthrough was renegade I would do.

[Xenbus]

Kyneris wrote...

Control
Controlling the Reapers.... is wrong. They are a power that no one, not even me (95% Paragon) should have. No one should be able impose his/her will on the galaxy like that.

Synthesis
Combining all synthetic and organic life into a new framework also feels wrong, destroying all life everywhere to have one masssive reset isn't the way forward. If what the Catalyst Kid said is true, then we will get to the final point in evolution anyway, I'd rather get there through natural means than by forcing it through genocide on an unprecedented scale.

Destroy
I feel that this is the only option that has any kind of real solution to the problem of the Reapers controlling the galaxy and inhibiting the hopes and dreams of organic life everywhere. With the reapers destroyed, life can finally continue as it should, without uber-powerful overseers to guide or control us. The price is high, extremely high, I worked very hard to bring the Geth and Quarians together in harmony and I supported EDI 100% of the time in her efforts to understand herself and the world around her. But I do think that the alternatives are all much worse than the one presented here. It is with a heavy heart that I commit genocide on all synthetic life... but I think it's the only way to be truly free...

Destroy
In and of it self is not a bad ending choice. It definately fits more of the renegade story type in what the crucible is capable of doing, you can't refine it all the way down to only target reapers. So it poses an intersting morality choice like in 2 when you could destroy or rewrite the heritics. Would you sacrifice the geth for organic life in the galaxy? Especially since they made you care about the geth. (This only really applies if the other 2 choices weren't so similar anyway)

Synthesis
Soverign himself goes, we are the pinnacle of evolution in the first game. Each a seperate nation. This ending literally turns the ENTIRE galaxy into reapers of a much smaller scale by the previous games logic. Basically the "New DNA" is reaper DNA. I don't see this as any different then rewriting the geth heritics. Which morally if someone believes something so hard they are willing to fight and die for it, (and shepard believes this in the first 2 games that organic life is worth fighting for) they should be allowed to die for their cause even if I don't agree with it at all. The first 2 games are basically you fighting for the right of organics to evolve naturally.

So I don't think this ending fits the game at all for the reasons stated above.

Control

Fundamentally this works because you can essentially indoctrinate the reapers because they think around more mechanical interfaces, which is how the geth get hacked and learn about the old mahcines they can reverse interface with them somewhat, so hacking them fits. Why you need to be disolved to do this is just weird. But in a vaccum it could work as an ending, but I think this would also be very renegade. Again your taking away free will from a sentient race, you basically become the reapers who indoctrinate people. This ending could also fit if there weren't so many plotholes with the ending videos.

The overall problem is most of the options just don't fit narratively, to who commander shepard is paragon or renegade, the overall arching back motivation of the character is locked in. You are fighting to save the galaxy from machines for organic life to exist, and evolve. The current endins do a 180 on this concept and you submit to the machines and either way give up on resisting to the bitter end.

[Ieldra]

highcastle wrote...
I am personally convinced that Destroy represents the only "good" ending (much as that word can be used). In both the other options, the Reapers endure in one form or another. In Control, I believe Shepard is basically indoctrinated. Certainly that seems to be the case with everyone else who's attempted this before.

There is no evidence that this happens to Shepard. Remember, he's a hero who's saving intelligent life. In ALL endings. In all endings, the Reapers cease to be a threat. In all endings, we get to see that Stargazer scene wich proves that intelligent life still exists in a recognizeable form. It's just the way there and the side effects that are different. 

In Synthesis, the Reapers get what they really want: the assimilation of every human being into their synthetic shells. In short, it's a fast track to making more Reapers (look at the way human beings were harvested--synthesized, really--in the Collector base).

Watch the ending sequence. Do Joker and EDI look as if they've been Reaperized?

Destroy, on the other hand, represents the only sure way of ridding the galaxy of Reapers. Of course, I'm also of the opinion that much of the ending--if not all of it--takes place in a virtual reality the likes of which we saw in Legion's quest on Rannoch. Somehow Shepard's synthetic consciousness is beamed up on the Citadel to activate the Catalyst. I'm also of the mind that the child is really Harbinger. He goes out of his way to paint Destroy as a terrible option. It's what he fears more than anything, so he tries to present synthesize as the best route. Again, that's what the Reapers have been doing for millions of years: assimilating organics into their own synthetic bodies.

The length to which people go to deny reality never ceases to amaze me. Also, your task is to stop the Reapers from harvesting intelligent life. That may, or may not include getting rid of them. Í suspect there are some feelings of vengeance at play here, but remember that the Reapers were tools. The future of intelligent life is a more important consideration than petty feelings of vengeance.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 12 mars 2012 - 08:24 .

[blah64]

monimakitten wrote...

I chose the destroy option, as much as I hated killing Edi and the geth, But my goal was always to destroy the reapers so I did.

Besides the fact I think it was all a dream....


Destroying the reapers once and for all is worth the cost. Their is no guarentee that Shep can control them all forever. Hell, the best thing to do is fly them all into a sun the instant he could.

[Kyneris]

The blue cutscene is ambiguous, no contest there, but ultimately it doesn't matter. It's a fact that 100% of the time, you release the energy of the crucible which will destroy the mass relays.

If A then B.
A happens 100% of the time, thus B happens 100% of the time.

[jijeebo]

Ieldra2 wrote...

djwhitfield wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Sublyminal wrote...
I've played all endings and in all endings they always explode period. Try paying attention.

 You think I would say this without having triple-checked? Pay closer attention. Particularly to the part where the central part of the Citadel/Crucible is covered by a fireball  - or not - and to the second part of the relay scene where parts fly in all directions. Or not.

You are correct. I just checked the control ending and the Mass Relays are NOT destroyed. They look like there about to explode, but they don't explode. Until they do with the other two endings.

Thank you.

I think you might actually be onto something here... I think that in this ending the relays aren't meant to be destroyed, but because they used the same scene as the endings where it is destroyed and just cut a bit out people have assumed that their destruction is still implied.

...Although does it fit with astronaut dad and his sprog, doesn't he still tell the kid something like space travel isn't really an option for them atm, which further implies their destruction? Although this could also be down to sloppy editting, maybe Bioware forgot to add a new dialogue for this ending?

All these maybes make my brain hurt... Hurry up and say something Bioware am dieing here!

Modifié par jijeebo, 12 mars 2012 - 07:54 .

[Ieldra]

@jijeebo:
The stargazer's words are ambiguous. They don't really indicate anything beyond reasonable doubt. They may indicate that the child *can* go to the stars "one day", meaning when the boy is grown up, they may also indicate that what's there is anyone's guess ("anything that you can imagine") and no one really knows.

If this is really meant to be "civilization is reset" scenario - I'm sure Bioware will explain at some time - then I'll be up in arms about that, but so far the evidence is conflicting.

[CroGamer002]

Geth die, that's enough for me not to ever choose that ending, unless I side with Quarians with one of my other Shep's.

[Ieldra]

Kyneris wrote...
The blue cutscene is ambiguous, no contest there, but ultimately it doesn't matter. It's a fact that 100% of the time, you release the energy of the crucible which will destroy the mass relays.

If A then B.
A happens 100% of the time, thus B happens 100% of the time.

You see, it's not at all clear that you do release the (full) energy in Control. It works the other way round too: because the relays do not explode, you can infer that the full energy of the Crucible has not been released and the cycle is not ended. This makes sense, because if you control the Reapers, you keep the option open to continue the cycle in some supposedly more benevolent way. Shepard will become the guardian of organic species with the power to intervene oin some way should a super-powerful malicious synthetic intelligence be built.

[Vyrii]

I personally chose destroy because it was the only option that made sense. Control just stated that I could get them to go away, they'd be back. Not good for long term viability.

Merge was just...
We would essentially be doing exactly what the reapers were trying to do, but on a smaller scale.

Destroy made sense. We could rebuild the relays (if they didn't destroy the systems) maybe use a new form of FTL travel. I imagine it wouldn't take long for the Quarians to rebuild the Geth. They might possibly have lost their individuality, but EDI once said that it was theoretically possible that the flaw in the plan was the hive mind, the Quarians should have made them individualistic.
Just like the Geth, the tech can also be rebuilt.

The real loss would be EDI. Which pains me, don't get me wrong. I would hate to lose EDI. But one loss is better than trillions.

[Madkipz]

Ieldra2 wrote...

The destruction of the relays (which doesn't happen in Control) is bad enough, but the real sticking point is this:

For three games, we've been confronted with questions about the nature of synthetic life. We've seen the rogue "VI" on Luna post "Help me" in binary code. We've met Legion and EDI and we can say with conviction that synthetics can be people. Now in ME3, if you broker peace between the quarians and the geth, the geth gain individuality, and Legion sacrifices his life for the species. Thus, a new species is formed, synthetics in the image of organics, having attained personhood. It is a species in its infancy, all the potential for its future as yet unrealized. 

Seeing this is an awe-inspiring experience. If you value intelligent life and its diversity at all, it is a sublime moment, a small island of hope in the horrors of a galactic war. And as opposed to the genophage cure, there are no lingering doubts about bad consequences down the road, since the geth have proven by their actions past and present that they're not naturally aggressive. 

If you choose Destroy, you also destroy all synthetic life including the geth, destroying all that potential and making a lie of that sublime moment when Legion spoke of himself as "I". You are destroying the future of a newborn species, the same Shepard accuses the Catalyst of if you choose the Paragon responses, only worse, because this new species has had no time at all. 

And don't tell me it doesn't actually happen. If you choose Destroy, EDI will not appear in the ending scenes. Synthetics being destroyed is well in line with the theme of the Destroy ending and supported by dialogue and visual evidence.

Taking this option makes me feel as if I just killed a child. 

Shepard is part synthetic, she is the pinnacle of synthetic and biological to the point of being presented by the god child as a template for the rest of the ****ing galaxy.

Why is it that the "destroy" option that supposedly destroys all synthetic life in the galaxy leaves shepard alive, in the streets of london? Because you were just lied to by an entity that does not want you to touch that thing with a 10 feet pole.

[Ieldra]

Mesina2 wrote...
Geth die, that's enough for me not to ever choose that ending, unless I side with Quarians with one of my other Shep's.

Yes. If you roleplay a Shepard with a consequent "Synthetics are machines, not people" attitude and side with the quarians, then Destroy is a viable option in the end.

BTW, apparently supporting the idea that synthetics are people is Renegade. I got +2 Renegade from supporting Adams in his debate with Chakwas. Does that make any sense to anyone?