173 réponses à ce sujet

[KainrycKarr]

 Because it's not like we completely disproved the theory of organics being perpetually betrayed by synthetics by uniting the Geth and Quarians or anything.

Oh....wait.

[Fishy]

clonedoriginzero wrote...

in the synthesis ending, you don't really do anything to the reapers, they just notice you've been cyberized and are like "you can live...for now....WE'LL BE WATCHING THO LOL!" the reapers could just change their mind at any time and come back to kill you all if they decide the synthesis wasn't working as planned.

destroy is the only real choice in this. as others have said. it sucks you're killing the geth, but its a necessary sacrifice for the good of the entire galaxy.

The best ending would have been fighting inside  harbinger and destroying all the Reaper .. Not some god AI.
Though?

[Xenbus]

plaguecaller wrote...

Synthesis is the correct ending. (It's the real happy ending)
 
Why?...

Because the reapers are a solution to a cyclic problem that occurs every 50,000 years approximately.

Organic life we are told is chaos theory in action.

The reapers are the response to this Chaos in action. They do this by culling the most advanced races and leave the primitives alone in each cycle.

The kid tells us that the only way to evolve is to buckle organic and synthetic life together to form a new path which brings peace between the two factions. That will bring eternal peace.

Which means there is no need for a ME-4.
 
If Sheppard wants to have peace it’s the only choice he can make. The other choices just reset the established struggle. Synthetics will always be created and the wars will start again.
 
The kid said the old solutions will no longer work. The only new solution he presented was synthesis which he said would work.

 

Here's my problem with this ending, the reapers already consider themselves the pinnacle of evolution in the galaxy.

Go play mass effect 1 when you talk to Soverign on Virimire, he straight states that they are the pinnacle of evolution. Word for word.

So synthesis literally accomplishes EXACTLY what the reapers want anyway.

[Leafs43]

Synthesis makes zero sense even if you accept the space magic theory.

Eventually the lolcyborgs will invent synthetics themselves.

And what about organic life that was unaffected because that system didn't have a mass relay?

Modifié par Leafs43, 12 mars 2012 - 09:26 .

[Zyrious]

fish of doom wrote...

the synthesis ending, while in spirit the best one, has been disproven in at least three different threads because it doesn't actually solve the problem stated.

I dont even see how in spirit it is the best one. Assume it does do what it says, changes everyone in such a fundamental way that the very way all life now percieves things is so radically different future wars or conflict with any future AI is impossible. What is the point of survival if you change the very nature of who you are into something completely different, into something you have even fought against? and against the will of the galaxy.

Even if it did solve the issue, it doesnt mean we cant solve the issue in destroy. "we will find another way". The reapers were created out of fear, synthesis is done out of fear, control is done out of fear. Destroy says "I have faith in humanity and the galaxy to overcome these challenges" in addition to a solid "**** you" to the star child.

Not to mention there's no telling if said singularity is inevitable. They became reapers out of fear of it happening, since if it had happened it wouldve wiped out all life.

[Vikali]

It is the only solution that bears the words, "save earth and the entire galaxy." So I'm inclined to believe it was the intended happy ending.

[AtreiyaN7]

I agree with the synthesis ending - to me EDI and Legion (and the other Geth) proved that they had achieved personhood and that we could co-exist. Synthesis was just taking that final step to true unity, not just co-existence, by changing the building blocks from which all life is made. Outwardly, it would seem that we're still basically the same and that we maintain our individuality, so I don't really see a downside to it.

[TudorWolf]

Karrie788 wrote...

TudorWolf wrote...

blah64 wrote...

Sorry, but synthesis is about as evil as what the reapers do. Stripping the free will from every organic in the galaxy and force them into some hybrid state that many would reject? Shepard has been fighting for the right's of organic's to live and choose their own destiny. To just tear that all away is horrible.

Destroy is the only option that is morally defensible if you ask me.

(I think it's all an indoctrination dream anyway.)

And destroy goes completely against the Paragon Shepard's ideals by destroying the Geth after proving that they can coexist with us, and kills EDI too.

And don't even get me started on control being awful.

Frankly I find Synthesis the least of all evils. Joker and EDI seem fine (and happy!) afterward. People see it as some sickening change forced upon everyone. Of course, without a sodding epilogue to tell us how the endings actually turn out we'll never know for sure

Well Shepard can survive with all the synthetic implants in his/her body. Maybe the geth will too.

While it would be awesome, if that were the case that would be the "perfect" ending, since the only really bad thing about it is losing the relays. And I have my own problems with Shepard surviving it. I mean, Shep seems practically on the verge of death when s/he is called up to the Catalyst's chamber. Managing to survive the citadel exploding and seemingly entering the atmosphere under those circumstances seems a bit much... But I digress.

Like I say, seeing as the effects of the "choice" are pretty much left to the imagination, it's not too difficult to see any of them as amazing or vile depending on your viewpoint

[prizm123]

blah64 wrote...

Sorry, but synthesis is about as evil as what the reapers do. Stripping the free will from every organic in the galaxy and force them into some hybrid state that many would reject? Shepard has been fighting for the right's of organic's to live and choose their own destiny. To just tear that all away is horrible.

Destroy is the only option that is morally defensible if you ask me.

(I think it's all an indoctrination dream anyway.)

i dont think you are necessarily stripping free will from everyone in the galaxy, listen to the kid, he tells you it is the next stage in evolution, and i am inclined to believe it. never has the ending to a game that i have experienced brought so much discussion on its meanings and philosophical differences, but I understand why you would say that..... its been days since I finished the game, and I am still thinking about it, the implications, and what the common theme is throughout the series

you still get to choose your destiny i think, and for me at least, the recurring theme throughout the series are the questions about what does it mean to be "human", is it in our nature to destroy or control, or is there a medium where we can learn to coexist?

I admit i am still deep in thought about all of this, but if I am right, then for my personal interpretation at least, the ending is brilliant. You disagree, I get that, and you have a belief that destruction is the only "right" course of action, I get that too, but the fact that we can discuss it means that on some level, the ending works the way it is, because of everyone's different and varied views.

I appreciate that.

[Brahlis]

Destroy is the only true ending.

[Pedro Costa]

TudorWolf wrote...
And destroy goes completely against the Paragon Shepard's ideals by destroying the Geth after proving that they can coexist with us, and kills EDI too.

 
Better a species and an individual to die than to FORCE everyone to a change most didn't ask for.
And I *love* the Geth - if I couldn't have brokered a peace, then I'd have decimated the Quarians in a heartbeat.

Frankly I find Synthesis the least of all evils. Joker and EDI seem fine (and happy!) afterward. People see it as some sickening change forced upon everyone. Of course, without a sodding epilogue to tell us how the endings actually turn out we'll never know for sure

It is a sickening change forced upon every living being on the Galaxy, synthetic AND organic alike.
Nothing can change that fact.
And to add insult to injury, it doesn't even solve anything.

It pained my Shep, but in order to rid the Galaxy forever of the Reapers (you know, the whole freaking point of this trilogy up to the last 10 minutes), the Geth had to be sacrificed.
It's sad, but it's what it is.
Except that then, my Shep started thinking: this entity created the reapers to solve a problem that was never more than conjecture, because, if it wasn't, no organic should exist anyway.
Not only that, but this "solution" is actually the closest thing to the Catalyst's problem that the Galaxy ever had to contend with. So this entity is obviously far from omniscient.
To add upon that, the Catalyst is a sentient being, self-preservation is in its best interest, which obviously means painting the scenarios where it doesn't get destroyed (or at least has some semblance of influence) as better options. Threatening the death of the Geth is an excellent way to downplay Destroy while hailing the Reaperfication of all the Galaxy as the best thing ever since sliced bread. Then we have Control, which is just a suicide button for Shepard with no guarantee of payoff.

[Red Templar]

Synthesis is the weakest of three weak endings.

It is the least plausible, because of the space magic having to rewrite the genetic code of every living being in the galaxy.

It is the least conscienable, because apparently Shepard is willing to violate the physical integrity of everyone everywhere in a bizarro act of cyber-r**** based on the say so of a H**ler AI responsible for countless trillions of deaths to solve a false dilemma proposed and perpetuated by said H**ler AI to begin with. While at the same time doing nothing to ensure peace, because cyborgs are as capable of killing cyborgs as humans are of killing humans or geth are of killing quarians.

It does nothing to the reapers - the beings we've been working towards defeating for all three games - and in fact makes everyone else conform to the reaper standard, thereby being the closest to true reaper victory of all the endings.

Plus stupid weirdo space-magic metaphysical transcendence nonsense coming out of nowhere.

I hate all three endings, but I can morally/rationally/purposefully justify the other two with much less difficulty than this synthesis nonsense.

Modifié par Red Templar, 12 mars 2012 - 09:44 .

[CronoDragoon]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

I agree with the synthesis ending - to me EDI and Legion (and the other Geth) proved that they had achieved personhood and that we could co-exist. Synthesis was just taking that final step to true unity, not just co-existence, by changing the building blocks from which all life is made. Outwardly, it would seem that we're still basically the same and that we maintain our individuality, so I don't really see a downside to it.

Learning to coexist promotes diversity. The synthesis ending is a big FU to diversity. It says, we can't stop hurting each other, so why don't we all become one.

AKA it is the much maligned Evangelion ending and all the crappy anime/game endings it spawned.

And you destroy the autonomy of every organic in the galaxy. Immanuel Kant is rolling over in his grave.

It also is stupid to believe that even beings with identical DNA will not try and wipe each other out. Lasting peace by this? I forgot the only wars in history were synthetics vs. organics.

The only synthetic vs. organic war, in fact, we know about was geth vs. quarian which was solved by peace. The Protheans were not wiped out by synthetics, they were wiped out by synthetic-organic hybrids: REAPERS.

[John Locke N7]

mordin would disagree......

geneticly forceing evolution wrong.

Should of been mordin making the end choices..... Shepard got it wrong.

[815Sox]

Ruari wrote...

And you believe the kid why? I mean, he's the one controlling the reapers, aka the enemy. If Hitler said in WW2 the only way to stop the ****'s was to bomb England would you of believed him?

He pretty clearly explains why he/it uses the Reapers. It feels that it is ultImately protecting and preserving life. I do not think it should be some forgone conclusion that it is evil.

Plenty of people believe their concept of god has assumed direct control of all events that occur in the world. This includes things like tragedies and disasters. Yet, they still believe that god is all good.

To that I would respond, well that being must have a very different sense of morality then we do. However, I am sure some would suggest that just because we do not understand it does not make it evil.

[DirectorStormchaser1]

It is not best ending. Because this is an Indoctrination ending. Shepherd is being Indoctrinated. The Synergy choice would be a Saren-like Indoctrination where organics and synthetics can co-exist.

[DirectorStormchaser1]

It is not best ending. Because this is an Indoctrination ending. Shepherd is being Indoctrinated. The Synergy choice would be a Saren-like Indoctrination where organics and synthetics can co-exist.

Modifié par DirectorStormchaser1, 12 mars 2012 - 09:45 .

[billida]

Synthesis is for me the end where reapers really win for good. Neither controlled, neither destroyed.

[TcomJ]

Very narrow minded ending if you think green is the actual ending.
Go read RJ Sawer: Wake, Watch, Wonder trilogy.

[TcomJ]

Red is actually the best ending. If they are trying to indoctrinating Shep and put Geth as the hostage, I actually think that Geth tech base doesn't have anything to do with Reaper tech at all. So I just kill them anyway.

[TcomJ]

CronoDragoon wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

I agree with the synthesis ending - to me EDI and Legion (and the other Geth) proved that they had achieved personhood and that we could co-exist. Synthesis was just taking that final step to true unity, not just co-existence, by changing the building blocks from which all life is made. Outwardly, it would seem that we're still basically the same and that we maintain our individuality, so I don't really see a downside to it.

Learning to coexist promotes diversity. The synthesis ending is a big FU to diversity. It says, we can't stop hurting each other, so why don't we all become one.

AKA it is the much maligned Evangelion ending and all the crappy anime/game endings it spawned.

And you destroy the autonomy of every organic in the galaxy. Immanuel Kant is rolling over in his grave.

It also is stupid to believe that even beings with identical DNA will not try and wipe each other out. Lasting peace by this? I forgot the only wars in history were synthetics vs. organics.

The only synthetic vs. organic war, in fact, we know about was geth vs. quarian which was solved by peace. The Protheans were not wiped out by synthetics, they were wiped out by synthetic-organic hybrids: REAPERS.

I couldn't say it better. Spot ON!!!

[Bigdoser]

CronoDragoon wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

I agree with the synthesis ending - to me EDI and Legion (and the other Geth) proved that they had achieved personhood and that we could co-exist. Synthesis was just taking that final step to true unity, not just co-existence, by changing the building blocks from which all life is made. Outwardly, it would seem that we're still basically the same and that we maintain our individuality, so I don't really see a downside to it.

Learning to coexist promotes diversity. The synthesis ending is a big FU to diversity. It says, we can't stop hurting each other, so why don't we all become one.

AKA it is the much maligned Evangelion ending and all the crappy anime/game endings it spawned.

And you destroy the autonomy of every organic in the galaxy. Immanuel Kant is rolling over in his grave.

It also is stupid to believe that even beings with identical DNA will not try and wipe each other out. Lasting peace by this? I forgot the only wars in history were synthetics vs. organics.

The only synthetic vs. organic war, in fact, we know about was geth vs. quarian which was solved by peace. The Protheans were not wiped out by synthetics, they were wiped out by synthetic-organic hybrids: REAPERS.

This person has nailed it imo. 

[KingNothing125]

Apart from the whole "how the hell can the Crucible possibly do that?" problem, there's the whole destruction-of-autonomy/it's-what-the-reapers-want/diversity-is-bad thing. Synthesis is the worst ending. Plus you die. F that.

[Detha]

Synthesis was the ending Bioware thought to be most correct and the "true ending" that was meant to be chosen. Despite the questions it leaves, it fits along with the narrative Bioware had been building in ME3 with Edi and the Geth. At the very end, the famous astronaut, Buzz Something (Sorry) does a voice over to a child, explaining that he just told the legend of "The Shepard" (who saw that coming, right?). Which I think by using a famous Astronaut was symbolic and important. The other endings don't use this voice over.  It also had shown that was the future, and it looked relatively peaceful.  Maybe even the ME story didn't really exist and was supposed to be a parable.  The choice was also the only one free from Anderson or TIM influence, and also it was the only giant glowing God ray. If destroy wasn't meant to look tempting, why use Anderson?

So while I think it's lazy and unsatisfying and hypocritical and boring and morally ambiguous (but aren't they all) and raises too many questions, it was most probably the one Bioware intended to be the true ending. The others were meant to be "deviant, fun routes representational of choice".

The imperfections and "reapercussions" of synthesis are only speculation. I doubt the child was meant to be a liar. Bioware had never done anything so "clever" or convoluted in all of the ME games (or all of their works really). Not to mention all of the newer people Bioware was trying to snag with this entry would be blind-sided. The only guaranteed thing was that it was "peace". After you beat it, Edi snuggles to Joker over a beautiful, new, shiny synthorganic world. Everything is tinged with a green sheen.

As we all know,
Green

Green is the color of nature. It symbolizes growth, harmony, freshness, and fertility. Green has strong emotional correspondence with safety. Dark green is also commonly associated with money.

Green has great healing power. It is the most restful color for the human eye; it can improve vision. Green suggests stability and endurance. Sometimes green denotes lack of experience; for example, a 'greenhorn' is a novice. In heraldry, green indicates growth and hope. Green, as opposed to red, means safety; it is the color of free passage in road traffic.

Use green to indicate safety when advertising drugs and medical products. Green is directly related to nature, so you can use it to promote 'green' products. Dull, darker green is commonly associated with money, the financial world, banking, and Wall Street.

In this case, it's positively glowing more brightly than all endings.  I don't think the form of synthesis presented by the Crucible was the one the Reapers could have done or had in mind, and was impossible outside of using the crucible. The Crucible was built little by little over a period of countless cycles by its inhabitants to fight the reapers. The extra ending suggests that the newly evolved had remained with free will and personalities as well.

I agree that destroy is probably the one that makes the most sense, however.  Has anyone played through the game using the "Action" mode? Which ending does it give you?

Modifié par Detha, 12 mars 2012 - 10:05 .

[Citizen Q]

Yea... violating every being in the galaxy's free will, in addition to their right to self-determinate... forgive me if I fail to see this as a good thing.