173 réponses à ce sujet

[slowbird]

If synthetics will always destroy organics, and all beings are now both synthetic and organic, will they just all kill themselves?

Modifié par slowbird, 13 mars 2012 - 12:26 .

[dkear1]

plaguecaller wrote...
So in other words you are going to continue the cycle over and over again.

What was that definition of madness again something like  ... repeating the same thing over and over hoping to achieve a diferent outcome when you know it will be the same.

This path in ME3 has been gone over for hundreds of thousands of years and even used new species evolution each cycle to only to end up in the same place. - no solution to the problem just amaniging of the same issue.

The only path out of same old same old cycle was sythesis.

Again, this is another assumption and not a true one.  Shepard standing on the citadel talking with the catalyst was a first!  The catalyst even says that things are broken.  Again we are back to a program (the catalyst) that can't think beyond its design.  There are always other options.  Besides the whole organics vs synthetics argument is little more than paranoia anyway.  What was true in one time is NOT necessarily true in another.

Besides, explain to me why the reapers are not killing off the synthetics if they are so afraid of them?  Why kill organics if  those are who they want to protect?  This is why the whole synthetics vs organics plotline is retarded at best.

[plaguecaller]

The catalyst is asking for trust and offering no proof. I don't buy that. Prove that we are better off. Prove that this has no downside. Prove that eveyone wants or will accept this.

The kid gives you proof he is very honest in saying the reapers are no longer a viable solution even. I think after 3 game releases fighting reapers, the destruction of earth and the sad assed condition you are in at the final end sequence should be proof enough for you things have to change. How big a 2x4 do you need upside to wake you up? Would you need another cycle to realise your errors?

Plus the kid even goes on to say excactly that when he says change is needed simply because Sheppard made it as far as he did and was standing infront of the kid.

Really what more do you need to stop you from drinking the same cool aid over and over again.

Kid makes it pretty plain we are not that special we all end up in the same place no matter which cycle it is. Just the races are different.

Modifié par plaguecaller, 13 mars 2012 - 12:31 .

[Red Templar]

plaguecaller wrote...

So in other words you are going to continue the cycle over and over again.

What was that definition of madness again something like  ... repeating the same thing over and over hoping to achieve a diferent outcome when you know it will be the same.

This path in ME3 has been gone over for hundreds of thousands of years and even used new species evolution each cycle to only to end up in the same place. - no solution to the problem just amaniging of the same issue.

The only path out of same old same old cycle was sythesis.

You can't know that. It isn't established.

The other endings are both superior, to my reasoning.

If you take the red ending, you reject the reaper premise that the created will always destroy their creators. You can look at it like this; the reapers are biased towards their purpose and see inevitability where there is only possibility. If the geth are any example, there is some hope that the reapers are wrong, and that is worth another try. The reapers have done more harm than any rogue synthetics have, and their influence in the world has altered the course of both organic and synthetic evolution and progress. I don't like the red ending, but if you take it you are hitting the reset button on the galaxy and giving future generations the chance to take another crack at the organic/synthetic problem without the poisonous influence of the reapers in play. There will be wars, but the synthesis doesn't solve war either, and at least this way races and cultures will choose for themselves and be free from reaper terrorism.

If you take the blue ending, you attempt an alternate resolution to the proposed problem. The possibilities here are numerous. Assuming that Shepard can maintain perfect control over the reapers (which we don't know, but for the sake of argument) then that means that the reapers can be repurposed to defend and support sentient life instead of butchering it. If you consider that reaper thinking might be flawed, and that Sherpard's control can turn them into the guardians they think they are, this might even be the best utilitarian ending, despite also being distateful.

The endings all suck, fair play. But it is my opinion that, in every category, the synthesis is the worst ending.

[LotharanAeron]

A good ending should make you reflect on the past and wonder about the future, figuring out how it all ties together. It can tie together many ways for each person. For that sort of ending to work it needs to be woven throughout the whole narrative so people can see the pattern and extrapolate possibilities based on their own life experiences and personality.

The Synthesis ending just comes out of left field. Is there some relation to previous events? Yes, but that retroactive. The Geth conflict was not created originally as part of the Synthesis ending. They had very little planned for ME3 until 2 years ago. Instead, the Synthesis ending has us questioning the ending itself, which is bad.

[815Sox]

Crill wrote...

There is no way to explain how synthesis works. It is above our understanding and something which we cannot comprehend. Clarke's third law states, 'Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistguishable from magic'. Therefore you cannot argue that Synthesis is the worst ending because it doesn't make sense. It shouldn't make sense.

As to people saying synthesis is slavery. With destruction you are destroying two entire races, the geth and the reapers.

I do not believe the Reapers are evil. Do humans not harvest livestock? Reapers harvest to aid organics where as we harvest to have some steak with our chips. Thus it is a matter of perespective and a deep philosophical debate which I do not think we will be able to answer until we create our own artificial intelligence.

Right, how can we understand what the writers suggest is the next step in evolution (at least in the ME world). Furthermore, are we not getting closer and closer to being able to create life? We have mapped DNA, we can create computers that can actually process better then the human brain, we have stem cell research, we can grow organs, we can write extremelly complex AI programs etc etc.

Did anyone not look at Shepards run towards the Citadel as the organics storming heaven? The Citadel can serve as Heaven and Hell. The first part is heaven, then Shepard ascends into heaven and mets with god. Shepard then merges organic energy (this is Shepard, the guy/girl that just united all organics and made peace between the synthetics and organics) with the godhead?

You may not like it, but this thread and suggestion shouldn't ****** you off. Its a story (a great story) at the end of the day. I am sad the Shepard story ended too, but there are many more to be told if Bioware wants too. It doesn't even have to be a human story. Hell, we are playing as different species in multiplayer aren't we?

Modifié par 815Sox, 13 mars 2012 - 12:30 .

[Rawgrim]

Destroy is the only good ending. You pick the only choice that does anything to the reapers. The kid disapears immediatly when you do this. Shep survives (if the War Asset score is strong enough. meaning there are people down there to hold off enemies around his knocked out body). He wakes up in London afterwards. Can tell by the concrete rubble.

[Madkipz]

plaguecaller wrote...

The catalyst is asking for trust and offering no proof. I don't buy that. Prove that we are better off. Prove that this has no downside. Prove that eveyone wants or will accept this.

The kid gives you proof he is very honest in saying the reapers are no longer a viable solution even. I think after 3 game releases fighting reapers, the destruction of earth and the sad assed condition you are in at the final end sequence should be proof enough for you things have to change. How big a 2x4 do you need upside to wake you up? Would you need another cycle to realise your errors?

Plus the kid even goes on to say excactly that when he says change is needed simply because Sheppard made it as far as he did and was standing infront of the kid.

Really what more do you need to stop you from drinking the same cool aid over and over again.

Kid makes it pretty plain we are not that special we all end up in the same place no matter which cycle it is. Just the races are different.

Yes. He is so honest about destroy <,<

Yet shepard, the template used for synthetic life (Millions of small reapers) is alive if you have the highest military rating and choose destroy.

We don't get to see geth ships burn / get destroyed or EDI get destroyed. Infact in some endings she steps out of the Normandy perfectly whole. 

[Deltateam Elcor]

Ultimately choosing synthesis is literally justifying the reapers destruction and literally imposing order (synthetic after all is apart of this) on Chaos ( Organic evolution is hindered or eliminated, although implied that there is no longer need of it due to the choice made).

Basically you just hand it to the reapers on a silver platter.

Since there is no longer any chaos to order around, what is the point of life then?
The Reapers point of life is that they come around every 50 millenia to do some cleaning up, that is their purpose for whatever reason, the reapers thusly have no more point to them and neither do we.
We may as well be dead.

I am pretty sure this is circular logic and anything with that in it, doesnt even deserve attention, kill them all.
Scratch that, however it still sounds bull.

Modifié par Deltateam Elcor, 13 mars 2012 - 12:40 .

[falloutgod13]

Ruari wrote...

And you believe the kid why? I mean, he's the one controlling the reapers, aka the enemy. If Hitler said in WW2 the only way to stop the ****'s was to bomb England would you of believed him?

Why not Russia? England was already kinda bombed to hell and Russia was the first place where German forces failed to achieve a victory. 

[plaguecaller]

We don't get to see geth ships burn / get destroyed or EDI get destroyed. Infact in some endings she steps out of the Normandy perfectly whole.

Only saw her come out in the sythesis one so far. She was not there in my red ending. - that would have been a hell of a plot hole to explain if she did.

Show me a red ending she is in- have not seen it yet.

Modifié par plaguecaller, 13 mars 2012 - 12:39 .

[Rawgrim]

plaguecaller wrote...

We don't get to see geth ships burn / get destroyed or EDI get destroyed. Infact in some endings she steps out of the Normandy perfectly whole.

Only saw her come out in the sythesis one so far. She was not there in my red ending. - that would have been a hell of a plot hole to explain if she did.

Show me a red ending she is in- have not seen it yet.

You do see Joker smiling in it. Why would he do that if EDI was gone? Destroy doesn`t do what the kid says it does. It only destroys the reapers. Everything after that choice are just images in Shep`s head. Wich is why Shep wakes up later (War Asset factor kicks in though. If its high enough, troops hold enemies away from Shep`s unconcious body). Both other choices ends with Shep dying. None of those choices harm the reapers. Convenient.

[plaguecaller]

You do see Joker smiling in it. Why would he do that if EDI was gone?

Once again show me proof.

Show me a red ending where she comes out the ship? Otherwise you claiming she is in the ship is not substantiated for a red ending.

[Madkipz]

plaguecaller wrote...

You do see Joker smiling in it. Why would he do that if EDI was gone?

Once again show me proof.

Show me a red ending where she comes out the ship? Otherwise you claiming she is in the ship is not substantiated for a red ending.

Really? Well I looked, but it only happens to a select few. I guess I was one of the Lucky ones and no i didn't take a screenshot.

It's always Joker. Love interest. Most used character if I'm not mistaken.

Well at any rate. You don't see any geth ships destroyed and occasionally with some people EDI steps out of your wrecked Normandy.

+ the fact that Shepard as part synthethic to the point that she describes herself as "I might be a doll walking around , thinking that I am Shepard."

Yet she survives this supposedly "Destruction of synthethics".

You have yet to offer any proof other than that "The catalyst said so." And the catalyst is simply making sweeping generalisations to save himself and his reapers. There is no guarantee that this hybrid synthethic life wont create pure synthethics, and besides. Reapers are unaffected by this change because they already are half / half. They spend their entire mass effect 1-2 making humans into synthethic husks. You are basically using the tool to save mankind to rewrite the entire galaxy in their image.

You are saying life as it is. Isn't worth fighting for.

Modifié par Madkipz, 13 mars 2012 - 01:03 .

[Voods07]

 Right, becoming the thing you fought against for 2 previous installemts is the true "good" ending. Sythetic...er...synthesis Isn't even posssible nor what we were fighting for from the beginning. Your really need to check out that meme.



Your so right OP, let me pay you for your wise counsil.

/stfu

Modifié par Voods07, 13 mars 2012 - 01:06 .

[Bigdoser]

here is what someone said in another topic. Hence why I always pick destroy.

Alright I posted this a minute ago but everybody ignored it. Saren's speech in mass effect 1 mirrors the "Synthesis" ending perfectly just as TIM's speech mirrors "Control". Here's saren's speech:
"The relationship is symbiotic. Organic and machine intertwined. A union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both, and the weaknesses of neither. I am a vision of the future, Shepard. The evolution of all organic life. This is our destiny. Join Sovereign and experience a true rebirth."

[dkear1]

plaguecaller wrote...

The catalyst is asking for trust and offering no proof. I don't buy that. Prove that we are better off. Prove that this has no downside. Prove that eveyone wants or will accept this.

The kid gives you proof he is very honest in saying the reapers are no longer a viable solution even. I think after 3 game releases fighting reapers, the destruction of earth and the sad assed condition you are in at the final end sequence should be proof enough for you things have to change. How big a 2x4 do you need upside to wake you up? Would you need another cycle to realise your errors?

Plus the kid even goes on to say excactly that when he says change is needed simply because Sheppard made it as far as he did and was standing infront of the kid.

Really what more do you need to stop you from drinking the same cool aid over and over again.

Kid makes it pretty plain we are not that special we all end up in the same place no matter which cycle it is. Just the races are different.

Oh please, the kid admits the solution doesn't work because you ramed it down his throat.  Again, you offer NO PROOF that synthesis will work.  "Because I said so" is NOT a valid arguement.  

And play nice and stop the 2x4 ****.  If you can't present proof for your side of the argument then put on your big boy pants and admit it.  Slinging insults just invalidates your argument more.

The arguement here is NOT that the cycle needs to be broken.....everyone agrees upon this....the arguement is about HOW it should be broken.   

Oh, and the we aren't special line......well, we are the first to stand on the citadel so I think we must amount to something.....don't you?

[kramerfan86]

Honestly though, synthetic/organic hybrids could still make their own synthetic life form which could still easily declare war on them.  Plus as organic on organic violence shows you dont need to be that different to have war.  The logic that the reaper god put forth that somehow synthesis=peace is just silly.  Not nearly as silly as magic green beam changes everything's DNA, but silly IMO

[plaguecaller]

Yet she survives this supposedly "Destruction of synthethics".

You would think that one would have been youtubed by now given its such a huge plot hole. So you should be able to prove it.- otherwise its just unsubstantiated hearsay from you,

[plaguecaller]

Oh, and the we aren't special line......well, we are the first to stand on the citadel so I think we must amount to something.....don't you?

just means we got lucky that's all.

[dkear1]

plaguecaller wrote...

Yet she survives this supposedly "Destruction of synthethics".

You would think that one would have been youtubed by now given its such a huge plot hole. So you should be able to prove it.- otherwise its just unsubstantiated hearsay from you,

While this argument is amusing it is offtopic and thus irrelevent. 
Personally I hope if the ending does get changed I will be able to nuke the reapers while still savinig EDI and the geth.

[Red Templar]

kramerfan86 wrote...

Honestly though, synthetic/organic hybrids could still make their own synthetic life form which could still easily declare war on them.  Plus as organic on organic violence shows you dont need to be that different to have war.  The logic that the reaper god put forth that somehow synthesis=peace is just silly.  Not nearly as silly as magic green beam changes everything's DNA, but silly IMO

Agreed. It is all flawed logic based on a false dilemma, and choosing it vindicates everything that the reapers and their agents have done. Joker getting to be happily ever after with EDI isn't worth me feeling like I've betrayed the galaxy's trust in a moment of extreme gullibility.

[kramerfan86]

I mean seriously, all the synthesis does is make sure all CURRENT life shares the same DNA, there is absolutely nothing to exclude the new hybrids from making purely synthetic life, a new geth or new AIs or anything of that nature. The exact same problem the stupid star child suggests exists still has just as much potential to exist in the future.

[plaguecaller]

And play nice and stop the 2x4 ****. If you can't present proof for your side of the argument then put on your big boy pants and admit it. Slinging insults just invalidates your argument more.

I already provided proof.

If you think the 2x4 was insulting then you have a low threshold when you are wearing your own big boy pants/shorts.

Modifié par plaguecaller, 13 mars 2012 - 01:21 .