67 réponses à ce sujet

[JamesX]

Logain is the Tyrner of Gawensomething. Denirum is always the Tyrnir of the King, though an Arl governs it.

As far as Logain is concerned this is just a large raid by the Dark Spawns. He is saddled with a King who is completely unlike his father and is betraying everything Loghain and his friend Meric fought for and killed for. The young king is so infatuiated with his place in legend and songs he has completely ignored his responsibilities and delegated the running of the kingdom to his daughter.

That would have been ok with Loghain as long as the King's obsession with his legacy did not endanger the kingdom - but when Celian is dead set on handing the kingdom Meric and Loghain built to the Olasians on a silver platter it became appearant that the useless king is more dangerous alive than dead. The fact the idiotic king was selling out all of feralden over a false blight just adds insult to injury.

[Glamzuki]

I may have misunderstood, but I believed the Orlesian forces Cailan was refering to were the Gray Wardens from Orlais, not the actual Orlesian army. So in my books Loghain is seven steps beyond paranoid.

Modifié par Glamzuki, 28 novembre 2009 - 04:08 .

[JamesX]

It was the Olasian Empire. Not the Gary Wardens.

Even Anora made the same comment which Loghain shot down.

Calian already sent messengers to the rest of the nations warning them of the Blight. The other nations just hasn't responded yet - including Olais.

[ReubenLiew]

No, it was Grey Wardens AND Orlesian Chevaliers, 2 whole legions of them in fact (I think they said something around the number of 200 Chevaliers, or something.) Considering that Fereldan has no Cavalry of ther own, 200 Chevaliers could potentially wipe out the remnants of the army after they'd spent all their men killing darkspawn.

[Elanareon]

What Loghain still did is dumb. He just wanted all the glory taken from the Grey Wardens. That's what happened! He chouldn't take that anyone other than himself, the hero of Ferelden, was saving it.



But i do not think that Loghain intended the King to die. Note the war meeting before the battle at Ostagar, Loghain insists to the king that the frontlines would be dangerous for the him. And that fact the he said to Anora that Cailan death was his own doing.



Well yeah, that's my opinion.

[The Angry One]

Er, no since cavalry tend to lead charges.

Besides, Ferelden does have cavalry if you believe the dialog. We just don't see it because David Gaider really hates horses I guess.

[hexaligned]

ReubenLiew wrote...

No, it was Grey Wardens AND Orlesian Chevaliers, 2 whole legions of them in fact (I think they said something around the number of 200 Chevaliers, or something.) Considering that Fereldan has no Cavalry of ther own, 200 Chevaliers could potentially wipe out the remnants of the army after they'd spent all their men killing darkspawn.

Not to mention the precedent it sets, even if they just chill out and refuse to leave, you still have a foriegn army (one that enslaved you not so long ago)  occupying your territory again.

[The Angry One]

Elanareon wrote...

But i do not think that Loghain intended the King to die. Note the war meeting before the battle at Ostagar, Loghain insists to the king that the frontlines would be dangerous for the him. And that fact the he said to Anora that Cailan death was his own doing.

Well yeah, that's my opinion.

He knows the King is going to go to the front despite anything he says so he might as well make it look good for his "hur hur Cailan was an idjit" propaganda afterwards.
Look at his face shortly before that scene, the only way it could be more obvious is if someone tattoed "premeditated regicide" on his forehead. "Yes Cailan, a glorious day for us allll... ah.. ahah... HAHA.. MUAHAHAHAHA!!"

[The Angry One]

relhart wrote...

Not to mention the precedent it sets, even if they just chill out and refuse to leave, you still have a foriegn army (one that enslaved you not so long ago)  occupying your territory again.

That's why you send them in first, and ridicule them if they have the gall to refuse.

[Glamzuki]

ReubenLiew wrote...

No, it was Grey Wardens AND Orlesian Chevaliers, 2 whole legions of them in fact (I think they said something around the number of 200 Chevaliers, or something.) Considering that Fereldan has no Cavalry of ther own, 200 Chevaliers could potentially wipe out the remnants of the army after they'd spent all their men killing darkspawn.

Ah ha, missed that bit of story. I guess that makes a little more sense. I still say he's  Mr. Crazy boots.

[Flamin Jesus]

The Angry One wrote...

relhart wrote...

Not to mention the precedent it sets, even if they just chill out and refuse to leave, you still have a foriegn army (one that enslaved you not so long ago)  occupying your territory again.

That's why you send them in first, and ridicule them if they have the gall to refuse.

Ridicule works on the fat kid and the goth girl, not on the heavily armed forces.
Ok, it might if they happen to be US forces, but not otherwise.

[ReubenLiew]

Actually that's a misconception. A general worth his salt will never use his cavalry to lead charges as that would completely waste their potential. Cavalry are used primarily for breaking flanks whilst the infantry are moving forward, and retreating to allow the infantry to get stuck in. Unless of course we're talking about the Conquistadors, in which case what was there to lose? Miles of open grassland with infantrymen who couldn't hold a straight line if their lives depended on it.



Cavalry based charges are normally done by Generals who are impatient or are extremely confident they can break the enemy, since protracted fights do not favor cavalry, as it is an awkward position to fight in and without momentum they are at a disadvantage.



I've never heard of Fereldan having cavalry, other than maybe brontos. I know they use dogs to fight, but never cavalry.



And the Orlesians were late in the end, if Loghain HAD gone in and helped, the army still would've been decimated, leaving the Orlesians an open chance to run them down before they even knew what happened. Although i doubt the Grey Wardens would allow them that if it came down to it. That is assuming of course if the Orlesians wanted to massacre the Fereldans anyway.

[The Angry One]

Flamin Jesus wrote...

Ridicule works on the fat kid and the goth girl, not on the heavily armed forces.
Ok, it might if they happen to be US forces, but not otherwise.

It does if their entire power and priviledge is based on their position as knights.
Spread the word around that they're a bunch of cowards who wouldn't fight the enemy they came all that way for and watch their names convert to mud!

[Flamin Jesus]

I see I'm not the only one who loves the Total War series.

[Flamin Jesus]

The Angry One wrote...

Flamin Jesus wrote...

Ridicule works on the fat kid and the goth girl, not on the heavily armed forces.
Ok, it might if they happen to be US forces, but not otherwise.

It does if their entire power and priviledge is based on their position as knights.
Spread the word around that they're a bunch of cowards who wouldn't fight the enemy they came all that way for and watch their names convert to mud!

The names of the guys who are known as a bunch of murderers and rapists in their own kingdom.

[ReubenLiew]

Jesus on fire, you da man! Gimme some skin!

[The Angry One]

As an aside, *maybe* if Loghain hadn't been playing silly buggers with half the kingdom, there wouldn't even have been a need to call for Orlesians.

Think about it, he poisons Eamon so all of his knights are off on some stupid quest to cure him, and he lets Howe murder the Couslands which gets rid of Highever's army, Bryce's presence, and ties up Howe's men in occupying Highever.

And then he's going to get pissy because Cailan considers help from the Orlesians? Granted he had it all planned out to fail from the start, but even his paranoia has no justifiable cause unless he's so demented he blames Cailan for problems he manufactured.

[Flamin Jesus]

High five!

[The Angry One]

Flamin Jesus wrote...

The names of the guys who are known as a bunch of murderers and rapists in their own kingdom.

But not cowards.
Yes, the gritty realism of chivalry is funny that way.

[ReubenLiew]

Well nobody said he wasn't off his freakin' rocker Just saying that he has a point of not wanting Orlesians in his army at the time is all.

[The Angry One]

Well see, if I were a true demented genius, I'd welcome the help of the Orlesians. Put the past behind me. See those brave Chevaliers off to battle, draw up a brilliant tactical plan.... where they all die in the most horrible manner possible, while I sit on the hillside watching with a glass of chilled wine, mahahaha.

[Flamin Jesus]

The Angry One wrote...

Think about it, he poisons Eamon so all of his knights are off on some stupid quest to cure him, and he lets Howe murder the Couslands which gets rid of Highever's army, Bryce's presence, and ties up Howe's men in occupying Highever.

I'll give you Highever, but Eamon was fine (and battle ready) during the battle of Ostagar, he was poisoned by Jowan, who escaped from the circle around the time of the battle itself, in fact if I recall correctly it was Cailan who was unwilling to wait for Redcliffe troops.

[Flamin Jesus]

The Angry One wrote...

Flamin Jesus wrote...

The names of the guys who are known as a bunch of murderers and rapists in their own kingdom.

But not cowards.
Yes, the gritty realism of chivalry is funny that way.

Point taken.

[Flamin Jesus]

The Angry One wrote...

Well see, if I were a true demented genius, I'd welcome the help of the Orlesians. Put the past behind me. See those brave Chevaliers off to battle, draw up a brilliant tactical plan.... where they all die in the most horrible manner possible, while I sit on the hillside watching with a glass of chilled wine, mahahaha.

On the other hand, if they're worth their fluffy titles, they probably have at least one commanding officer who might get suspicious when he is presented with the "paint targets on your backs and ride into battle backwards" tactic.

Unless their commander is one of those guys

[ReubenLiew]

Problem is getting them to agree with you, of course These ARE the Frenc... I mean Orlesians we're talking about, who got their ass kicked out by the very same guy who's about to take order from.

I can see them now. Their moustaches all-a-flutter whilst they sniff at Loghain. "I spit in zjour zjenerael dihrehchen, jou Ferelden peeg-dog, ve vill charge vhen ve feel like eet, not vhen jou vant us too. Now go avay, or ve vill taunt jou a zecond time!"