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[stevej713]

Flamin Jesus wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Think about it, he poisons Eamon so all of his knights are off on some stupid quest to cure him, and he lets Howe murder the Couslands which gets rid of Highever's army, Bryce's presence, and ties up Howe's men in occupying Highever.

I'll give you Highever, but Eamon was fine (and battle ready) during the battle of Ostagar, he was poisoned by Jowan.

Who was hired by Loghain, if I remember correctly?

[The Angry One]

Flamin Jesus wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Think about it, he poisons Eamon so all of his knights are off on some stupid quest to cure him, and he lets Howe murder the Couslands which gets rid of Highever's army, Bryce's presence, and ties up Howe's men in occupying Highever.

I'll give you Highever, but Eamon was fine (and battle ready) during the battle of Ostagar, he was poisoned by Jowan, who escaped from the circle around the time of the battle itself, in fact if I recall correctly it was Cailan who was unwilling to wait for Redcliffe troops.

True on that, however I think there are a few accounts that said he was poisoned a little before the battle.
Cailan was being a bit petulant about that but I think it might've been bravado - if he was willing to wait for Orlais, why not Redcliffe?

[Flamin Jesus]

The Angry One wrote...

Flamin Jesus wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Think about it, he poisons Eamon so all of his knights are off on some stupid quest to cure him, and he lets Howe murder the Couslands which gets rid of Highever's army, Bryce's presence, and ties up Howe's men in occupying Highever.

I'll give you Highever, but Eamon was fine (and battle ready) during the battle of Ostagar, he was poisoned by Jowan, who escaped from the circle around the time of the battle itself, in fact if I recall correctly it was Cailan who was unwilling to wait for Redcliffe troops.

True on that, however I think there are a few accounts that said he was poisoned a little before the battle.
Cailan was being a bit petulant about that but I think it might've been bravado - if he was willing to wait for Orlais, why not Redcliffe?

I don't know honestly, maybe he was just pulling Loghain's strings with the whole Orlais thing...

Edit: Pulling strings isn't really correct, is it? He was poking him? Is that better?

Modifié par Flamin Jesus, 28 novembre 2009 - 04:47 .

[ReubenLiew]

Well, we have to take in account that these guys don't exactly have a phone, messages are usually out of date by the time they get there. Duncan mentioned that Eamon's troops were on their way, about a week off, but he might've only gotten that information before Eamon was poisoned, and didn't know circumstances had changed after that. So it might be possible that Jowan did poison Eamon before the battle, and the troops were never coming since Ms. 'Teeaaaggaaannn' Isolde probably told them all to go in some crazy search for the number 42... or something.



And I think Cailan mentioned that Orlais was a few days away, plus most of them are on horseback so they'll be there sooner than Recliffe's infantry. And it wasn't like the Dark Spawn were going to wait for them to get ready, amirite?

[The Angry One]

You know that's a good point, for all the talk of waiting and building forces to either make Cailan look like an egotist or cement Loghain's "No Orlesian scum! Rah rah!" routine, the darkspawn were going to march, en masse, right through that pass, that night. So it's not like they had a choice, unless a darkspawn emisarry kept coming down and asking "Are you ready yet guys? No? Ok we'll come back tomorrow!"

[Maria Caliban]

The Angry One wrote...

Amaranthine, Howe's Arldom, is north of Denerim.
Loghain is Teryn of Denerim, I think.

Denerim is an Arldom, and depending on your choices, it possibly ruled by Vaughan of the city-elf origin.

Loghain is Teryn of Gwaren, which is, along with Highever, Ferelden's only terynship.

ReubenLiew wrote...

I've never heard of Fereldan having cavalry, other than maybe brontos. I know they use dogs to fight, but never cavalry.

Brontos are dwarven, and I don’t think they’re ever seen on the surface.

They have horses, and in the Stolen Throne, we see kings and generals riding back and forth during battles. It seems to be more mounted infantry than actual cavalry units though.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 28 novembre 2009 - 05:08 .

[ReubenLiew]

Thats the weird part. As Daveth said, it was like dangling meat in front of a bear. They were in a fort, and thats why they got easy victories. But suddenly Cailan goes soft in the head (well... softer in the head) and decides to put his entire army OUTSIDE the gates so he'll tempt the horde out of the trees and have this almight battle royale.

The kid never did pay attention to military tactics 101 did he?

[The Angry One]

Well it was Loghain's plan, and nobody at the war meeting said "waitaminute, your plan sucks rancid lemon pie".

Then again maybe they were all half-asleep and pretending to pay attention leaving only Loghain who wants it to fail, and Cailan who wouldn't know a bad plan from gum on his boots.

[ReubenLiew]

Well to be fair I think Loghain was trying to come up with a plan as best as he could whilst still appealing to Cailan's massive need for glory. I think Loghain would've preferred to sit in the fort and let the Dark Spawn yawn themselves to death, but I have the feeling that Cailan wanted a plan that involved a lot of glorious combat, which meant that they were basically just sending their men out of a perfectly defensible position just to make the enemy charge in their full numbers, since he wanted to end it right there and then.

And the Grey Wardens weren't about to tell the King 'are you freakin' nuts or something?' so their hands are pretty much tied down to the childish whims of fancy on Cailans part, but all this is pure speculation till we get more information on what Cailan wanted in the first place and what Loghain would've preferred. I didn't even really understand what they were arguing about, since no details were divulged about the plan.

[Flamin Jesus]

Well, the plan might have actually succeeded had Loghain not decided to run away, not succeeded in a "hey, we got the Archdemon" way of course (Since the Archdemon was still somewhere underground by that time), but at least they probably would have won the battle.
Wouldn't have won them the war thanks to that one victory, though.

Modifié par Flamin Jesus, 28 novembre 2009 - 05:29 .

[Taleroth]

He REALLY REALLY hates Orlesians. Like superhate. Like, I'm surprised he didn't try bargaining with the Archdemon to get it to attack them.

[Taleroth]

Flamin Jesus wrote...

Well, the plan might have actually succeeded had Loghain not decided to run away, not succeeded in a "hey, we got the Archdemon" way of course (Since the Archdemon was still somewhere underground by that time), but at least they probably would have won the battle.
Wouldn't have won them the war thanks to that one victory, though.

I'm not sure if the plan would have succeeded or not.  Duncan thought it would, which should be good enough for me.  But it was Loghain who devised the strategy.  And he's an idiot.

[Flamin Jesus]

He did, but then the Archdemon was all like "You know dude, if I have you all as my thralls, they're going to go down EVEN MORE AWESOME", and the Loghain was all like "Hey that's awesome dude, take my soul" and stuff.

Modifié par Flamin Jesus, 28 novembre 2009 - 05:35 .

[ReubenLiew]

Yeah they might've won, but it would be phyrric at best, by the looks of it.

[Flamin Jesus]

Taleroth wrote...

Flamin Jesus wrote...

Well, the plan might have actually succeeded had Loghain not decided to run away, not succeeded in a "hey, we got the Archdemon" way of course (Since the Archdemon was still somewhere underground by that time), but at least they probably would have won the battle.
Wouldn't have won them the war thanks to that one victory, though.

I'm not sure if the plan would have succeeded or not.  Duncan thought it would, which should be good enough for me.  But it was Loghain who devised the strategy.  And he's an idiot.

Loghain may be treacherous, misguided and plain wrong, but he's not an idiot by a long shot.
Not to mention that flanking a foe who thinks that "running towards those guys REAL fast" is the pinnacle of strategic thinking is bound to work.

[Flamin Jesus]

ReubenLiew wrote...

Yeah they might've won, but it would be phyrric at best, by the looks of it.

By numbers, possibly, but winning the time to get other forces into position may be more valuable than a single decisive (yet ultimately pointless) victory.
That is, if other forces had come at all, and if BW had intended the game to end right after the prologue.

[ReubenLiew]

Problem is a phyrric victory is simply not an acceptable situation when the enemy possesses an army that is tremendously larger than yours, so I think their strategy was pants in the first place

[Lotion Soronarr]

Cailian wasn't a moron. Actually I think he made a good king. A bit brash and somewhat of a glory hound, but he had his priorities straight. He really cared for the people (including elves) and he really wanted to end the blight. He was smart enough to see that a Blight is a far greater danger than Orlesians could ever hope to be.

The position at Ostagar was very defensible and the battle plan was good (except for the no escape/retreat route for the king..good work Loghain). If Loghain has followed trough with the battle, the bulk of the darkspawn horde could have been ended that day.