168 réponses à ce sujet

[T1l]

People complaining about Vanguards spamming charge/nova need to step up. You can't abuse that on higher difficulty levels at all, and honestly, it becomes very apparent that Vanguards suck the big one when you're trying to play Silver/Gold.

[Roros5e]

I'm not talking about just spamming it, I mean the exploit which let's you circumvent the cooldown and spam nova literally once every second. It's not very hard to reproduce it once you see how it's done. It's been around since the demo.

Half of what makes it annoying is the constant, non-stop overlapping screaming for 20 minutes.

Modifié par Roros5e, 13 mars 2012 - 12:55 .

[SiberETP]

Without lag, I can solo bronze cerberus. I haven't tried it on silver, and primes and banshees are a bit too quick on the grab for my tastes, but unless I'm lagging hard it's entirely possible for me to at least occupy large groups of enemies for considerable amounts of time, even if I'm not killing them fast. If I can keep the main body of enemies focused on me while the rest of the team hacks, is that so large of a credits loss? On an 4xactivate mission, it'll can even let the team complete the objective faster, or if the next node appears on the far side of the map from them, I'm generally in a good position to hit it.

Sometimes I go down, yeah. Sometimes kind infilitrators come and get me while cloaked, sometimes its too hot and I die. I feel real bad about it, because it always means I screwed up. I don't blame my team. But just as often I can teleport onto someone who is about to get stepped on, nova all his troubles away, and pick him up. Intercept phantoms, disrupt that pack of engineers, these seem like team plays to me.

On the subject of team play, coordinated warp-charge detonation chains are so amazingly powerful, or stasis charge. I love being able to do these things, and I can only do them with the help of my team. Turrets or flamer Geth I didn't notice? My Quarian buddies have my back. I love my team, especially on higher difficulties, and I do what I an to keep them safe.

I 133, sure. It may seem like invulnerablity to you, but it doesn't to me. Primes, banshees, brutes, pyros, atli, phantoms, guardians, they all have ways to ruin my day if I mess up. I have to play it right or I die. Sometimes playing it right means staggering a guardian with a charge and then shotgunning it in the face, because by the time I charge or nova its sheild is back in place, and potentially staggering me. Sometimes it means shooting a Pyro because its flames cancel my skills, and I need to make it flinch first. Sometimes it means calling in fire support on that banshee, because I have neither the powers or the weapons to deal with it. Skilless? Solo? I reject these accusations. The class is powerful, arguably too powerful, and maybe it attracts bad players, but give us vanguards a chance. We're here to help.

[Kittstalkur]

Roros5e wrote...

I'm not talking about just spamming it, I mean the exploit which let's you circumvent the cooldown and spam nova literally once every second. It's not very hard to reproduce it once you see how it's done. It's been around since the demo.

Half of what makes it annoying is the constant, non-stop overlapping screaming for 20 minutes.

Really? Every time I've had a nova cancelled (either due to staggering or whatever), it hasn't actually fired a nova off.
 AFAIK it also doesn't have a cooldown, you just can't use it when your barriers are down.

[Sesshomaru47]

clonedoriginzero wrote...

typical experience with vanguards from games ive played with them.

1.) "ok guys, i'm the vanguard just back me up and ill kill everything cus im awesome"

2.) "guys, i'm down come revive me. oh come on, dont worry about the hordes of enemies surrounding my body and the fact im halfway across the map"

3.) "hmm, they're not coming to get me, i guess i gotta burn my medi-gel, thanks for nothing noobs!"

4.) "darn, guys im down again why aren't you reviving me? i see that you're sticking together and using superior teamwork and everything, but why leave me out?"

5.) "ok. now im dead, gotta watch the rest of the round. damn noobs!"

6.) "awesome, back in action, i'll show these jerks how to play!"

7.) " damn im down again!"

8.) "god why dont these guys work as a team, they need to rush across the entire map, ignoring all the enemies and revive me, im the vanguard. come on!"

9.) rage quit.

My brother and myself have been playing MP and he's a Vangaurd and the oppisite of everything you're describing. Maybe it's because he's within punching reach, but he's not crazy, rarely dies and helps other players that do. But yeah for the majority most Vangaurds seem to be gun-ho twits. I hate nova. It's annoying when you've carefully worked the enemy into your singulaity and they come along and steal my glory.

[Khavos]

T1l wrote...

People complaining about Vanguards spamming charge/nova need to step up. You can't abuse that on higher difficulty levels at all, and honestly, it becomes very apparent that Vanguards suck the big one when you're trying to play Silver/Gold.

Somebody needs to learn how to either build or play a Vanguard. 

[KarmaTheAlligator]

Raltar wrote...

I hate them because if someone isn't at the extraction point when the match is concluded, 95% of the time it is a vanguard.

So very much this. It's like they can't see the timer, or don't care.

[Landline]

I don't like Vangards because they always seem to go after the geth I hack.

There's like 10 geth behind it, but he goes straight for my geth. Sure every class does this to an extent, but vanguards have been especially bad for me.

[kingtrouble]

Vanguards are amazing at higher levels if they know what they are doing. Honestly people shouldn't be complaining about points since it's co-op and the amount of experiance you get along with credits is the same. A good asari/vanguard combo is amazing if they work well together, biotic explosions everwhere. At higher levels vanguars are usually the tanks and distract mobs which I always welcome.

[Dude_in_the_Room]

I just want to point out that being a Vanguard isn't special. It's a default character and class that anyone can use. Also since everyone knows about the vanguards....well yeah. Keep thinking it's ultra l33t.

[kingtrouble]

Good vanguard is good. Bad vanguard is dead the majority of the match after his first charge. Play with a good vanguard and you will notice it.

[OblivionDawn]

Any self-respecting Vanguard will fight away from the rest of the group to avoid kill-stealing.

At the same time, any self-respecting Vanguard will know when there are too many enemies for him to handle alone, lol.

[PrinceLionheart]

kingtrouble wrote...

Good vanguard is good. Bad vanguard is dead the majority of the match after his first charge. Play with a good vanguard and you will notice it.

It's a Catch-22. A Good Vanguard steals all the kills while a Bad Vanguard holds the entire team back. 

[Hatem]

I like this thread. It makes me warm and fuzzy inside.

[JerZey CJ]

clonedoriginzero wrote...

AveryChim wrote...

I only hate when they're nearby and all the camera shaking makes it hard to aim...

Otherwise they're great! I just pick off the ones he's not targeting. There are more then enough enemies to go around...

its really nto about them killing more than me, i do just fine. usually #1 or #2 in score with my sentinel. its that they make things harder for the team.

they go down alot, like ALOT. requiring people to go way further than they should have to in order to revive them. usually its not worth it to revive a vanguard, too risky.

ive NEVER, not ONCE, seen a vanguard help hack one of the 4 nodes, or stay in the upload area. and they are NEVER in the extraction zone.

they're not teamplayers, thats the problem. all the other classes can stick together and work great as a team, but the vanguard is always on the other side of the map getting himself killed and not helpign with objectives.

Apparently, you've never played with a good Vanguard.
As a Vanguard, I almost never go down, Charge lvl 6 brings all of my Barriers back up, so If my Barriers go down, I charge at the safest/nearest target.
I'm usually one of the first people to try and run to a node, unless somebody has already got it, then I stand by them to keep them safe. I always try to stay in the upload area, and if I do charge out, I go right back in.

[VettoRyouzou]

Gr4ntus wrote...

I like this thread. It makes me warm and fuzzy inside.

No joke I just made this out of pure frustration and it seems to boil down to Inf Vs Vans.

[kingtrouble]

PrinceLionheart wrote...

kingtrouble wrote...

Good vanguard is good. Bad vanguard is dead the majority of the match after his first charge. Play with a good vanguard and you will notice it.

It's a Catch-22. A Good Vanguard steals all the kills while a Bad Vanguard holds the entire team back. 

Amen. I don't really mind having a good vanguard.  Everything you get in the end is the same.  Too many people just want to stroke their epeen which is completely useless in co-op. Though IMO good vanguard = things did faster = faster completion

[B1RDS_i]

I just gotta ask something... everyone knows that a Vanguard only has shockwave, charge, and nova right? None of which are long range, unless you count charge as long range. So while everyone else is using the concussive shot and incinerate etc.. vaguards have charge. There isn't any choice but to use the powers that you are given to your character. I personally don't really like playing as a vanguard in the MP... My favorite is soldier. However, my single player Shep was Vanguard so when I finished SP I chose Vanguard for MP because I'd be more familiar with it. It just is what it is. If you're surviving and getting a full extraction be happy you were on a team that made it to the end.

EDIT: Actually, I really liked Quarian Engineer from the demo, that just might have been my favorite thus far.

Modifié par B1RDS_i, 13 mars 2012 - 03:52 .

[B1RDS_i]

KarmaTheAlligator wrote...

Raltar wrote...

I hate them because if someone isn't at the extraction point when the match is concluded, 95% of the time it is a vanguard.

So very much this. It's like they can't see the timer, or don't care.

Hmm... usually, for me, it's not just a Vanguard but someone who has no idea what they're doing.  No matter what class.

[ll-Nomad-ll]

you guys kiddin? I love the vanguards. Whenever I see a vanguard killing shiz and leaving none for the rest of us 3, I just hide by a safe corner, whip out youtube via Origin and watch some shiz til wave 11.

EDIT: or til he leaves.....
EDIT 2: Or dies... to which I won't rez him of course.
EDIT 3: Or I just lob a lot of frags or biotic setups so that when he novas it, i get the killz 

Modifié par ll-Nomad-ll, 13 mars 2012 - 04:13 .

[Zambayoshi]

Had an interesting bronze match at lunchtime where the leader was a high level vanguard who would go out on his own, Rambo style. Thing was, I was playing a vanguard too and he started getting agitated when finished off a couple of his targets with charge. I also played a match where the resident vanguard got snarky when I sniped targets that he was going after. I think it all depends on the player, not the class. That being said, the vanguard class does tend to attract the more... flamboyant players. :-)

[CruserBoii]

I mainly play as a Vanguard, but I usually stay with the team, the only time I really use Nova or Charge is when there's an enemy close to me. Usually I pick enemies off with my Claymore. I occasionally Kill-steal because people are just firing blindly.

[mybudgee]

Who cares about kill stealing!? Its a team! CO-OP!! Lighten up FFS!

[Wynne]

One thing I'd like other players to know about vanguards--not all of us are idiots. We simply survive by staying mobile and crashing into things--that's how it happens. We fight or we die.

The problem is, there is this occasional crapout where the game just doesn't want to let you charge. My barriers do not fill back up if I cannot charge. This is 85% of the time what kills me. And no, I don't expect anyone to come revive me that 15% of the time that I just run stupidly into a turret on Firebase Dagger. I'd really rather you didn't, in fact, since us getting wiped serves nobody. And to not be completely useless, I'll even watch your six so no phantoms sneak up on you while you're fielding that atlas. I keep my mic on for that very purpose.

But the rest of the time, please understand, it's not my fault if I hear that "ding--ding--ding--ding" sound cheerily telling me "Oops, can't get a lock! Guess you die!" I try to avoid my own imminent death by leaping into cover, but if I have a guy right in front of my face, no obstacles, yet I can't charge him for some f***ing reason... yeah, that's a bug, and it hasn't been ironed out yet, so it just kills me. I can't help it.

I swear, some of these rage quits--and they aren't mine, because I know I get XP and credits if somebody carries my dead embarrassed ass into the next wave--are sheer frustration with game mechanics that aren't 100% perfect. (Though I have to admit, clonedoriginzero's post of a vanguard thought process was very funny, and I know there are some immature vanguard players who really do think like that.) It's humiliating to die for no apparent reason because the other players don't know what happened to you or that it wasn't just you being stupid.

Really, it's good for everyone to play every class, I think. It shows you how the others work, and helps you be a more helpful player. Ever since I figured out that a drell adept's reave + a vanguard's charge triggers a sexy biotic explosion, I try to reave the hell out of everything I think looks tempting to a vanguard. Teamwork! Gotta love it.

clonedoriginzero wrote...

ive NEVER, not ONCE, seen a vanguard help hack one of the 4 nodes, or stay in the upload area. and they are NEVER in the extraction zone.

they're not teamplayers, thats the problem. all the other classes can stick together and work great as a team, but the vanguard is always on the other side of the map getting himself killed and not helpign with objectives.

Huh... that's sure not how I play my asari vanguard. I always help with missions. If I'm the first to the target, chances are I'll take it, unless I think I'll be more useful--well, guarding. In that case, I stand beside the person as close as I can in order to make sure I can see everything that can see them. The first enemy I see is going to die fast or at least shoot at me rather than my companion--if it's close-ish, I will charge it; if it's far, I will shoot it or throw up a stasis bubble. If it's a group of enemies, I have the "hit more targets" upgrades, so I tend to charge the group to break them up and make sure they can't target my companion.

I still stay close to make sure that the person is protected, because nothing sucks more--for everyone--than to have to stop handling a device because you're getting shot to pieces. That reduces everyone's credit bonus. And after the first few missions you do, credits are more important than XP. They're how you get the good weapons and items. 

I also stay in the upload area except in one of 3 cases--first, if I have a grenade on top of me; second, if I desperately need to recharge my shields in order to survive (I serve no one by dropping dead); third, if we're in danger from something close by and I want to protect my companions so they don't have to move (because I'm the one who gets her barrier recharged by throwing myself at the enemy. I generally charge, then use my little asari back-glide to return to the upload area as fast as possible. Though it works best if everyone stays put, if we're getting swarmed then it really doesn't hurt for a vanguard to make sure the other 3 players can stay safely within the zone without fear of getting mass-grenaded or something. This is particularly true if you're fighting the Reapers--I charge that Banshee/Brute tag team so they don't charge you. (And so that you can shoot the hell out of them so that I live through it. Please?) It's my job. I am the distraction.

Usually, it works. 

Really, vanguards can be extremely useful if played half-decently. Me, even though I'm often on top when I play vanguard, I never get a swelled head about it because I've played other classes, too.

We all get the same XP and credits in the end. I enjoy racking up the points, but I'm not stupid enough to think it means I'm better than anyone else. Some classes just do better than others on pure numbers, especially on bronze. 

Trust me, I love and respect the hell out of infiltrators when they cloak and rez my sorry ass. It doesn't matter whether their kill count is lower. I get the concept of teamwork.

[Makatak]

Overload targets before Vanguard charges in to them. Resulting charge detonates tech burst. You get the kill.

Vanguard posts rage thread about how weak set up abilities like Overload/Warp/Reave still his kills when he detonates them with charge.

Problem solved.