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Paragon/Renegade choice Rannoch with Legion (MAJOR SPOILERS!)


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#1
djspectre

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*UPDATE* PLEASE SEE BOTTOM OF POST! after the ------ line!

Before I start my question, be aware this post contains major spoilers!





You have been warned!







Once you free Legion from the Geth Dreadnought and you head to Rannoch's surface to fight the Reaper hidden underground, it's revealed that Legion still contains Reaper-upgraded code to empower the Geth to finally allow individuality and break away from the collective thinking they required before. This makes the Geth fleet that's actively engaged with the Quarian Flotilla vulnerable. And the Quarian Admirals shout to press this advantage. 

This then set's up a sequence where Legion decides to upload this Reaper code into the rest of the Geth fleet so they can defend themselves. 

You are then given two standard (not red or blue) choices:
Paragon -> Allow Legion to upload the code
Renegade -> stop the upload

if you choose the paragon choice, Tali beg's you not to do it and Legion counter argues by saying that the Quarians have now TWICE started a war with the Geth..all of which was caused by a single Geth long ago asking "does this unit have a soul?"
You are presented the choice a second time :

Paragon -> allow the upload
Renegade -> Stop the upload

If you choose the Paragon choice (allow the upload) for the second time, the Geth fleet masacres the entire Quarian flotilla. Tali then commits suicide. (you are given a Paragon interupt [right mouse click] to save her, but you fail 100% of the time and she dies anyway)


My question is this: How is it that the PARAGON choice ends with the betrayal of your long term friend Tali and the extinction the Quarian race? That doesn't make any sense. 

This sounds more like result in line with a renegade choice to me. Considering it was a renegade choice in ME2 to awaken Legion to begin with. 

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? It seems really, awkward and ridiculously shocking for a Paragon Shepard to indirectly commit extinction-level genocide.




---------------------------------

UPDATE!!!!!! 2nd PLAY THROUGH RESULTS!

*note updated to fix numerous formatting problems*

Yes this is a relatively old topic, but I'm the one who started it so I can revive it :)   I did find a solution to my problem though for those who wish to read!




 *MORE SPOILERS AHEAD, DO NOT READ!!!!!!!!*






Anyway, on my second play through, I discovered that I was ABLE to get the options for peace (meaning you actually see the blue paragon/red renegade options on the left hand side of the dialog wheel), where as my previous post mentioned that I only got the two standard (right hand side of the dialog wheel) options that forced you to choose between the geth or the quarians. 

Here is what I did:

ME2 - renegade path (over 3/4's renegade)

hugged Tali aboard the geth-hijacked shipTail NOT exiledDo NOT reveal what Tali's father was doing

used blue/red responses (not standard) to broker a 'deal' between Tali and Legion during confrontation

rewrote geth heretics

ME3

Fullreputation bar (20% paragon/80% renegade)after destroing dreadnought: support garrel (don't punch him or use the renegade interupt)

when Xen suggestions examining Legion, used renegade choices (support Xen, Shepard says 'lets wait' though"

Support Garrel when he asks for cover for the heavy fleet from Raan and the liveships. 

when legion shares what a reaper ai looks like: scold him (renegade interupt)

xen vs tali about saving pods or salvaging geth dreadnought: side with xen and salvage the dreadnought (grants 45 war assets, supporting tali grants none)

save admiral korisdestroy geth fighters

when Legion reveals he has reaper code, use the paragon ("It's understandable, Legion") option. 

(during the last rannoch mission, you'll notice chages in dialog based on these choices. One will be that fighters are few, and that Raan will actually go on the offensive with the Civilian fleet instead of requesting them hold back)

told legion to upload the code

blue paragon/red renegade options appeared - both created peace between geth and quarian.




I hope this helps equally lost people during the Rannoch missions. I know my initial outcome was damned unexpected!!!

Edited by djspectre, 20 April 2012 - 10:20 PM.


#2
Mr. Big Pimpin

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Doesn't matter, chose peace. Like a boss.

Edited by Mr. Big Pimpin, 12 March 2012 - 09:58 PM.


#3
GoblinSapper

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You did it wrong. You can save both with a second Paragon dialogue, "Rally the Fleet".

#4
TudorWolf

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Paragon Shep also told the Quarians not go to war, and chastises the Quarians for doing it anyway.

Very much a case of "They brought this upon themselves".

#5
desert116

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djspectre wrote...
My question is this: How is it that the PARAGON choice ends with the betrayal of your long term friend Tali and the extinction the Quarian race? That doesn't make any sense. 


Because the Quarians are genocidal idiots.

#6
Einherjar ODIN

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Did you even TRY using the blue paragon choice?

#7
Zyrious

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GoblinSapper wrote...

You did it wrong. You can save both with a second Paragon dialogue, "Rally the Fleet".


You can have peace as a renegade too. Well, renagon but you can renegade it in the end with an intimidate. You literally spell it out to the quarians that if they dont stop fighting the geth you will literally stand there and watch them all die and do nothing about it because they are bringing it upon themselves.

#8
Maria Caliban

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You can have peace between the Quarians and Geth. You just did something wrong. Did you save the Admiral who wanted peace? How high was your reputation?

#9
Mr. Big Pimpin

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desert116 wrote...

djspectre wrote...
My question is this: How is it that the PARAGON choice ends with the betrayal of your long term friend Tali and the extinction the Quarian race? That doesn't make any sense. 


Because the Quarians are genocidal idiots.

And yet you have one as your avatar.

#10
Harorrd

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If you have imported a Me2 save, and you do Legions loyalty mission and creates a truse with Tali and Legion The Paragon option you mention gives the Geth Inteligence, and they will help the Quarians rebuild Rannoch and fight for their creators

#11
FFLB

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GoblinSapper wrote...

You did it wrong. You can save both with a second Paragon dialogue, "Rally the Fleet".


Yeah, I remember there being both a Paragon and Renegade persuade option available at some point. I was surprised to read the OP, because I had chosen the Paragon options, but I didn't recall Tali even coming close to killing herself.

#12
Maria Caliban

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Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

desert116 wrote...

djspectre wrote...
My question is this: How is it that the PARAGON choice ends with the betrayal of your long term friend Tali and the extinction the Quarian race? That doesn't make any sense. 


Because the Quarians are genocidal idiots.

And yet you have one as your avatar.

Says the guy with the husk avatar.

#13
desert116

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Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

desert116 wrote...

djspectre wrote...
My question is this: How is it that the PARAGON choice ends with the betrayal of your long term friend Tali and the extinction the Quarian race? That doesn't make any sense. 


Because the Quarians are genocidal idiots.

And yet you have one as your avatar.


Well maybe I too am a genocidal idiot.
:wizard:

#14
Mr. Big Pimpin

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Maria Caliban wrote...

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

desert116 wrote...

djspectre wrote...
My question is this: How is it that the PARAGON choice ends with the betrayal of your long term friend Tali and the extinction the Quarian race? That doesn't make any sense. 


Because the Quarians are genocidal idiots.

And yet you have one as your avatar.

Says the guy with the husk avatar.

I don't think husks are idiots, though.

#15
John Locke N7

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you gota save the admiral to save both the geth and everyone els

#16
tommythetomcat

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GoblinSapper wrote...

You did it wrong. You can save both with a second Paragon dialogue, "Rally the Fleet".


By both do you mean Legion?  I was under the impression he couldn't survive the upload. If he can I need to start a new file...


oh wait it doesn't matter because of the ending lol

#17
Mr. Big Pimpin

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Out of curiosity, do you actually get P/R points for this, or is it just positions on the wheel?

#18
djspectre

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GoblinSapper wrote...

You did it wrong. You can save both with a second Paragon dialogue, "Rally the Fleet".


Again, I didn't have a BLUE paragon option. And I don't mean I didn't have enough reputation and the option was greyed out, I mean there wasn't one present at all. Total Abscence. The only paragon and renegade option I was given was the standard ones...presented on the right side of the dialog wheel. The 'paragon' option (top right of the wheel) was 'Allow the upload'. The Renegade (lower right of the wheel) was 'stop the upload'.

There was no option for a "rally the fleet" in my play through. 

I did save the Admiral on the ground and in the 'argument' in the war room with Raan and the admiral of the Heavy Fleet, i ordered the Heavy fleet to pull back (supporting Raan). 

Then after the Reaper is dead, Legion wants to do the upload, I allow him (twice). During which, the Heavy Fleet Admiral (gharol??) orders to attack the weakened geth. Tali futily attempts to assert her power as an Admiral and command the fleet to stand down, Gharol then overrides it and attacks anyway. 

Also I had a full reputation bar, favoring paragon.

Edited by djspectre, 12 March 2012 - 10:20 PM.


#19
djspectre

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Einherjar ODIN wrote...

Did you even TRY using the blue paragon choice?


None available. Not greyed out, but entirely absent. Only given standard (right hand dialog wheel) choices. 

#20
The Angry One

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desert116 wrote...

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

desert116 wrote...

djspectre wrote...
My question is this: How is it that the PARAGON choice ends with the betrayal of your long term friend Tali and the extinction the Quarian race? That doesn't make any sense. 


Because the Quarians are genocidal idiots.

And yet you have one as your avatar.


Well maybe I too am a genocidal idiot.
:wizard:


Fair enough, after the ending everyone is a genocidal idiot too..

#21
Zyrious

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I believe that means you forgot to save the admiral. You have to do the save the admiral mission and bring him back to the fleet alive. His influence helps tip it in your favor, then you just intimidate or rally them.

#22
Laughing Man

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I'm starting to get the impression that there are a lot of prerequisites to unlock the ability to save both peoples. I don't think it's just a matter of rep and dialog choices. I saved both and had done the following:

1. Blown up the Heretics in ME2
2. Brokered peace between a loyal Tali and a loyal Legion in ME2
3. Supported Legion in ME3
4. Saved General Koris in ME3
5. Had a ton of Rep
6. Told Legion to upload, then rallied the fleet.

Anyone know which of those are required? Also, does something different happen if you chose rewrite in ME2?

#23
Bigdoser

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Zyrious wrote...

GoblinSapper wrote...

You did it wrong. You can save both with a second Paragon dialogue, "Rally the Fleet".


You can have peace as a renegade too. Well, renagon but you can renegade it in the end with an intimidate. You literally spell it out to the quarians that if they dont stop fighting the geth you will literally stand there and watch them all die and do nothing about it because they are bringing it upon themselves.


Yup thats what I did as well with my renegade shep I love that intimidate line. OP you must of did something wrong cause the option to charm/intimidate the fleet to make them stand down only unlocks if you made certain decisions in me2 and me3. 

#24
Kandon Arc

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djspectre wrote...

Einherjar ODIN wrote...

Did you even TRY using the blue paragon choice?


None available. Not greyed out, but entirely absent. Only given standard (right hand dialog wheel) choices. 


Do you remember what you did regarding geth/quarians in ME2? That has an effect, though I don't know which part is the important choice.

#25
Kandon Arc

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Laughing Man wrote...

I'm starting to get the impression that there are a lot of prerequisites to unlock the ability to save both peoples. I don't think it's just a matter of rep and dialog choices. I saved both and had done the following:

1. Blown up the Heretics in ME2
2. Brokered peace between a loyal Tali and a loyal Legion in ME2
3. Supported Legion in ME3
4. Saved General Koris in ME3
5. Had a ton of Rep
6. Told Legion to upload, then rallied the fleet.

Anyone know which of those are required? Also, does something different happen if you chose rewrite in ME2?


The only difference I had is that I saved the heretics, so it can't be that. I think 2 is probably the important one, with 4 needed as well.