61 Antworten in diesem Thema

[Daedrus_0837]

djspectre wrote...

Before I start my question, be aware this post contains major spoilers!





You have been warned!







Once you free Legion from the Geth Dreadnought and you head to Rannoch's surface to fight the Reaper hidden underground, it's revealed that Legion still contains Reaper-upgraded code to empower the Geth to finally allow individuality and break away from the collective thinking they required before. This makes the Geth fleet that's actively engaged with the Quarian Flotilla vulnerable. And the Quarian Admirals shout to press this advantage. 

This then set's up a sequence where Legion decides to upload this Reaper code into the rest of the Geth fleet so they can defend themselves. 

You are then given two standard (not red or blue) choices:
Paragon -> Allow Legion to upload the code
Renegade -> stop the upload

if you choose the paragon choice, Tali beg's you not to do it and Legion counter argues by saying that the Quarians have now TWICE started a war with the Geth..all of which was caused by a single Geth long ago asking "does this unit have a soul?"
You are presented the choice a second time :

Paragon -> allow the upload
Renegade -> Stop the upload

If you choose the Paragon choice (allow the upload) for the second time, the Geth fleet masacres the entire Quarian flotilla. Tali then commits suicide. (you are given a Paragon interupt [right mouse click] to save her, but you fail 100% of the time and she dies anyway)


My question is this: How is it that the PARAGON choice ends with the betrayal of your long term friend Tali and the extinction the Quarian race? That doesn't make any sense. 

This sounds more like result in line with a renegade choice to me. Considering it was a renegade choice in ME2 to awaken Legion to begin with. 

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? It seems really, awkward and ridiculously shocking for a Paragon Shepard to indirectly commit extinction-level genocide.

Not true. With the proper responses, you are able to have Legion upload the data, get the Quarians to stop their attack, and have everyone start loving each other. The Geth then begin to help the Quarians get set up on the planet again and also load themselves into the Quarian suits to simulate viruses and other infections to stimulate the Quarians' immune system. Doing this will make it so the Quarians will be ready to get out of their suits within a few years.

Of course.. it doesn't really help matters when shortly after this part, the entire ****ing Quarian fleet goes to Earth and gets stranded.

[djspectre]

 

Kandon Arc wrote...

djspectre wrote...

Einherjar ODIN wrote...

Did you even TRY using the blue paragon choice?

None available. Not greyed out, but entirely absent. Only given standard (right hand dialog wheel) choices. 

Do you remember what you did regarding geth/quarians in ME2? That has an effect, though I don't know which part is the important choice.

 


No I don't know what I told the quarians. My paragon shep was my first play through of ME2 and at the time didn't know I was going to meet Legion. It's possible I told them to take the homeworld out of sympathy. 

Kandon Arc wrote...

Laughing Man wrote...

I'm starting to get the impression that there are a lot of prerequisites to unlock the ability to save both peoples. I don't think it's just a matter of rep and dialog choices. I saved both and had done the following:

1. Blown up the Heretics in ME2
2. Brokered peace between a loyal Tali and a loyal Legion in ME2
3. Supported Legion in ME3
4. Saved General Koris in ME3
5. Had a ton of Rep
6. Told Legion to upload, then rallied the fleet.

Anyone know which of those are required? Also, does something different happen if you chose rewrite in ME2?

The only difference I had is that I saved the heretics, so it can't be that. I think 2 is probably the important one, with 4 needed as well.

1. I rewrote the heretics (which in ME3 Legion states that while the heretics did come back to the geth collective, it also bolstered their numbers when the Reaper took control of them)
2.) I was able to keep both loyal, by having Tali give non-classified data to the Geth (in ME3 Tali has a brief line of dialog referencing this, IRC)
3. not sure what part you're referring to. 
4. I saved Koris.
5. had full rep bar
6. told legion to upload, but was not given an option to rally the fleet. my choices were "Allow upload" or "Stop Upload". 

[GamerGirl702]

Found this on another thread...

You
have to get either 5, 6, or 7 "peace points." 4 or below and you won't
get any other options no matter how high your reputation is.

You get 2 points for destroying the heretics in Legion's ME2 mission, and 0 points for rewriting the heretics.

You
get 2 more points if you did Tali's loyalty mission and Tali was not
exiled (it doesn't matter if you exonerated her by Paragon Speech,
Renegade Speech, rallying the crowd, or by revealing her father's crimes
and losing her loyalty. It only matters that the end result is that
Tali's loyalty mission is complete without Tali's status being "exile.")

You
get 1 more point if you Charm or Intimidate Legion and Tali into
resolving their argument; you won't get this point if you side with
either of them or the argument didn't happen.

Then there's the
ME3 possibilities. If you save Admiral Zaal'Koris vas Qwib Qwib on
Rannoch during an N7 mission, you get 1 point. If you do another N7
mission on Rannoch where you destroy a geth squadron, that's 1 point.

Finally,
you have to do Legion's ME3 mission where Shepard enters the geth
consciousness. No matter how many points you have, if you don't do this
mission you can't achieve peace between quarians and geth.

So
there are already problems. As you may have guessed, if you rewrote the
heretics back in ME2, then 5 is the maximum you can get, which itself is
the absolute minimum requirement for peace. So rewriting the heretics
means you'll have to work much harder, though if you succeed in that
scenario the heretics help you and increase the quarian fleets'
strength.

And of course, if you gave Legion's body to Cerberus
for example, you can't achieve peace because you miss out on too many
points. You can still do the geth consciousness mission since a Geth
VI replaces Legion, but you miss out on 3 out of 7 points already (you
lose the destroying heretics 2 points, which is still doable since that
leaves you with 5, but you also lose the 1 point for resolving the
Legion/Tali conflict, which brings it down to 4 and makes peace
unwinnable).

[Bismarck26]

In order to broker peace between the geth and the quarians you must:
Keep Tali alive in ME2
Keep Legion alive in ME2
Complete "Geth Fighter Squadrons" mission in ME3
Complete Tali's and Legion's loyalty missions in ME2

You also need to accrue 5 "points" you get these from:
Complete "Rannoch: Admiral Koris" (+1)
Keep Koris alive during above mission (+1)
Save Tali from exile in ME2 (+2)
Destroy the heretic geth during Legions loyalty mission in ME2 (+2)
Settle the argument Tali and Legion have during ME2 (+1)

Basically copy/pasted from the strategy guide and worked for me

Edit: Person above me posted the same thing a minute before me but I'll leave this here because mine is basically a tl;dr of the above

Bearbeitet von Bismarck26, 12 März 2012 - 10:53 .

[MadCat221]

Bismarck26 wrote...

In order to broker peace between the geth and the quarians you must:
Keep Tali alive in ME2
Keep Legion alive in ME2
Complete "Geth Fighter Squadrons" mission in ME3

You also need to accrue 5 "points" you get these from:
Complete "Rannoch: Admiral Koris" (+1)
Keep Koris alive during above mission (+1)
Save Tali from exile in ME2 (+2)
Destroy the heretic geth during Legions loyalty mission in ME2 (+2)
Settle the argument Tali and Legion have during ME2 (+1)

Basically copy/pasted from the strategy guide and worked for me

Edit: Person above me posted the same thing a minute before me but I'll leave this here because mine is basically a tl;dr of the above

I think you also need to complete Legion's ME2 loyalty mission either which way.

Also, you need at least four reputation bars filled to pass a rep check in dialog.  If all that is true, peace out.

If the Heretics were rewritten in ME2, the Geth get a boost in their war assets, and the Quarians take a small penalty to their war assets.  I am unsure which Heretic choice (destroy/rewrite) has the larger net contribution to war assets.

Bearbeitet von MadCat221, 12 März 2012 - 10:54 .

[djspectre]

Well basically it sounds like i got at least 5 'peace points'

Completed Admiral Koris +1
Kept him alive +1
Saved Tali from Exile +2
Settled the argument between Tali and Legion +1 = 5 total.

But I missed the geth consciousness mission which apparently completely negates all of that. Sounds like missing this mission also might cause the Blue Paragon and Red Renegade options from even appearing during the dialog and might also prevent the appearance of the "rally the fleet" option others have mentioned. 

Bearbeitet von djspectre, 12 März 2012 - 11:00 .

[Lumenadducere]

Yeah, the other posts above with the point values are correct. You need to have both characters loyal (Tali can't be exiled in ME2, and you need to resolve the argument between her and Legion). Then, once you've done that, you need to save the Admiral and also do the "Geth Fighter Squadrons" mission. If you've done those and you also have enough reputation, you can do the paragon/renegade persuasion to convince the Quarians to stand down. This option appears after you tell Legion to start the upload.

Bearbeitet von Lumenadducere, 12 März 2012 - 11:00 .

[djspectre]

However, going back to my original post, it's still strange that the Paragon dialog choices result in the Quarian extinction and Tali's suicide. Perhaps it's because the conversation options originate from a conversation with Legion (paragon choice for legion would be a renegade for Tali/Quarians?) and not Tali.

[MadCat221]

Lumenadducere wrote...

Yeah, the other posts above with the point values are correct. You need to have both characters loyal (Tali can't be exiled in ME2, and you need to resolve the argument between her and Legion). Then, once you've done that, you need to save the Admiral and also do the "Geth Fighter Squadrons" mission. If you've done those and you also have enough reputation, you can do the paragon/renegade persuasion to convince the Quarians to stand down. This option appears after you tell Legion to start the upload.

No, you merely need her alive.  She can hate your guts because you blew the lid off her dad's misdeeds, and then also destroy the Heretics to get enough points transferred from ME2 (minimum 3 out of 5, in this scenario 4).  Alternately, you can have her exiled and destroy the Heretics and then you resolve the Tali/Legion loyalty conflict on the spot (in this scenario 3).

If you exonerate Tali, destroy the Heretics, and resolve the loyalty conflict right as it happens then you're already good to go as far as the tally points.  All you need to do is Legion's side mission in ME3 so you have the context of the pre-Exodus history between the two sides; you can completely skip the Admiral Koris Rescue... according to the tally system as it's revealed, at least.

I do not know for certain if these scenarios work, I'm just going on the revealed requirements and elective tally list we've seen on it.  Of course, there may be a myriad of different outcomes when it comes to the resulting War Assets you get...  In any case, peace gets you far more than any combination of war assets you would get from just one side.

Bearbeitet von MadCat221, 13 März 2012 - 12:34 .

[Hizuka]

 It requires more than just the 5 peace points.  I've spoken with others having this same issue, and it appears that:

• Solving Tali and Legion's dispute in ME2 with a paragon or renegade option is 100% required.  They have to already be used to working peacefully with each other.
• You MUST complete Legion's mission to destroy the fighters, or you won't have the required background to argue this.  It's vital you know that some Quarians sided with the Geth in the Morning War, and that the Geth ALLOWED the Quarians to go.
• You MUST complete the rescue mission on Rannoch, and you have to have rescued the admiral, not his men.  Without him, you do not have the backing to broker peace.

Even if you have the five points, if you haven't met the above three qualifications, you apparently don't even qualify to make the reputation check for the extra options.  That might also explain why they don't show at all unless you've done all of the above.

Edit: And the reason backing the Geth is the paragon choice is that you're agreeing that they are sentient and have an inherent right to exist, while the renegade choice indicates you're agreeing with the Quarians that as machines, the Geth are no more 'people' than are toasters.

Bearbeitet von Hizuka, 13 März 2012 - 01:05 .

[djspectre]

well it looks like I'm gonna have to hope that I can find a save that isn't more than a mission or so earlier so I have a chance to talk to Legion and deal with the fighter squad/consciousness thing....else Tali is gonna be committing suicide in all of my playthroughs.

Though to be honest, the cinematic of the battle between the two fleets is pretty fun to watch!

Bearbeitet von djspectre, 13 März 2012 - 01:34 .

[Hizuka]

RPG Gaming 101: Make multiple saves. With this game, you're best off doing a hard save before every mission. You can always delete them later.

[djspectre]

Oh I've been playing RPG's for 25 years and the "Save early, save often" mantra is what I live by. What I meant was that my other Shepards from ME2 (that I can't import yet due to the face import bug) all have a similar setup as far as actions taken towards tali/legion in me2.

What I meant was on my subsequent playthroughs, I'll just look for legions mission. I don't mind Tali dying (tali was my fave though) because my first playthrough of any game is always the most interesting since I'm not an expert on it yet.

[nightshadeofvoid]

Kandon Arc wrote...

Laughing Man wrote...

I'm starting to get the impression that there are a lot of prerequisites to unlock the ability to save both peoples. I don't think it's just a matter of rep and dialog choices. I saved both and had done the following:

1. Blown up the Heretics in ME2
2. Brokered peace between a loyal Tali and a loyal Legion in ME2
3. Supported Legion in ME3
4. Saved General Koris in ME3
5. Had a ton of Rep
6. Told Legion to upload, then rallied the fleet.

Anyone know which of those are required? Also, does something different happen if you chose rewrite in ME2?

The only difference I had is that I saved the heretics, so it can't be that. I think 2 is probably the important one, with 4 needed as well.

Agreed.  I also saved the heretics but did all the others and  was able to make peace between them

[Starspiral]

Kandon Arc wrote...

Laughing Man wrote...

I'm starting to get the impression that there are a lot of prerequisites to unlock the ability to save both peoples. I don't think it's just a matter of rep and dialog choices. I saved both and had done the following:

1. Blown up the Heretics in ME2
2. Brokered peace between a loyal Tali and a loyal Legion in ME2
3. Supported Legion in ME3
4. Saved General Koris in ME3
5. Had a ton of Rep
6. Told Legion to upload, then rallied the fleet.

Anyone know which of those are required? Also, does something different happen if you chose rewrite in ME2?

The only difference I had is that I saved the heretics, so it can't be that. I think 2 is probably the important one, with 4 needed as well.

You also have to complete the "Geth fighter squadron" mission before going to Rannoch.

[Starspiral]

According to the official guide you must _

Keep Tali and Legion alive in ME2
Kill the heretics in Legions loyalty mission
Complete the "Geth fighter squadron" mission.

If all those are true, tyhen you must have at least 5 points from _
Complete Rannoch mission +1 point
Save Koris +1 point
Save Tali from exile in ME2 +2 points
Destroy heretic Geth in ME2 +1 point
Make peace between Tali and Legion in ME2 +1 point


then and only then can you broker peace between the Geth and the Quarians.

Bearbeitet von Starspiral, 13 März 2012 - 07:17 .

[Hizuka]

Starspiral wrote...

According to the official guide you must _

Keep Tali and Legion alive in ME2
Kill the heretics in Legions loyalty mission
Complete the "Geth fighter squadron" mission.

If all those are true, tyhen you must have at least 5 points from _
Complete Rannoch mission +1 point
Save Koris +1 point
Save Tali from exile in ME2 +2 points
Destroy heretic Geth in ME2 +1 point
Make peace between Tali and Legion in ME2 +1 point


then and only then can you broker peace between the Geth and the Quarians.

You don't need to kill the heretics.  I rewrote them and still brokered peace.  Destroying the heretics is also 2 points, not 1.

I know that there are flags that need to be set as well as you haveing enough points.  From talking to a LOT of people having trouble with this quest, i think these are the mandatory flags:

• You MUST have brokered peace between Tali and Legioin during their fight with either a paragon or renegade interrupt.  It's vital that she already have a friendly working relationship with him.
• You MUST have completed Legions mission on Rannoch to destroy the fighters.  It's required that you have the background info on the Morning War that this gives you, so that you're aware of the truth behind it, and that not only did some Quarians fight FOR the Geth, but that the Geth let the Quarians go.
• You MUST have performed the rescue mission on Rannoch, and you must have rescued the Admiral, not his men.  You cannot broker peace if he's not there supporting you.

So basically, you need the three flags above, plus you have to have either saved Tali from exile (without revealing what her father did, or you don't get any points) or you have to have destroyed the Heretics.

The most common sticking point I've seen is with people who've done everying on the list EXCEPT make peace between Legion and Tali.  Some have had all six other points and still not had the reputation options show, which is why I think it's a requirement.

Bearbeitet von Hizuka, 13 März 2012 - 07:42 .

[ed87]

Paragon Shepard saves both and also, Major spoilers?? Almost everyone in here has completed the game. The alternate choices are also pretty obvious...

[djspectre]

Its the part that Tali commits suicide that most people haven't seen since most people do the geth fighter mission, plus the fact that the game is only a week old means lots of people still haven't played it. I thought, I'd be polite.

[Zen_Mojo]

Well, this will be interesting.

As far as I'm concerned, the point system sounds arbitrary and made up. The only way it makes sense is if the person who came up with it went directly into the code and figured out an algorithm. If not, then there's no point even using it.

Personally, I...

1. Rewrote the geth heretics in ME2. (+0)
2. Achieved loyalty for Legion and Tali then kept both Legion and Tali loyal using intimidation in ME2.
3. Warned Raan.
4. Did EVERY mission on Rannoch as well as the geth fighter squadron mission.
5. Rescued and kept Koris alive.
6. Have a full reputation bar.

No option for peace. Nada.

Now, here are some other things I did that might have affected the score.

1. I didn't let Xen experiment on Legion.
2. I sided with Tali against Xen.
3. Sided with Raan against Grell.
4. Got angry at Legion for lying about the reaper code.

[Zen_Mojo]

Either my game is broken or these numbers are wrong.

I didn't kill the heretics but it's impossible to have Tali and Legion stay loyal if she is exiled and you don't resolve their argument.  Yet, Tali and Legion are loyal in my post-completion save with 100% loyal survivors.  Even my archived messages in the ME2 save say Tali is still a "member of the fleet in good standing" and another says that they found out what Tali's father did and mocked me for not telling them.

So far so good.

Then I completed all of the Rannoch missions and saved Koris.

Alright, that's a sum total of 5 points right there.  So...?

Nope, no peace option.  So there has to be more to it than the guides are saying.

Bearbeitet von Zen_Mojo, 13 März 2012 - 03:10 .

[djspectre]

well I went back to a previous save that I created before I even met the Quarian envoy to start this entire subplot from scratch.

What I have done thus far:
- chastised the admirals for going to war (twice)
- freed Legion (also used paragon-leaning dialog choices when available)
- supported Legion's choice about being allowed to evolve
- used a blue paragon persuade to convince Koris to be rescued and then rescued him successfully
- DID NOT use the renegade interrupt on Gharol of the Heavy fleet when he gets pissy with me after he nearly got me killed on the geth dreadnought (if you do the interupt, you punch him and throw him off the normandy, fyi)
- Warned Raan about the fighters
- cleaned up the distress message (related to the previous entry)
- stopped the Geth fighters (consciousness mission)
- I have full rep bar
- WAS NOT able to convince the Turian on the Citadel to give extra medical supplies to Tali (this argument becomes available in the Presidium Commons if you visit the citadel after you rescue Koris, but before you do the Geth Fighter mission)
- I have a full rep bar


I still have the final mission of the Reaper base left to do, but I'm hoping that this might be enough. I'll report back tonight after I finish the last mission.

[Drake-Shepard]

I ended up writing a short essay at my frustration about how i was 'unfairly' penalised but deleted it as i calmed down while writing it. and then concluded....

... because i could not paragon/renegade Tali and legion into putting their difference aside in me2, Tali does not give me her authority to talk down her fleet...a pretty stupid move...probably didn't realise they would get wiped out so quick...and then kills herself because it is really her fault!!

I am a bit annoyed because bioware said that die hard renegade and paragon was not the way they wanted players to play. Some renegade/paragon stuff were easter eggs.
I was unable to convince legion and tali in me2 to work together using paragon/renegade options..but i sided with tali and when she left the AI core, I explained to legion that i was lying to calm her down. Thus keeping both their loyalties.

Apparently this was not good enough.

[djspectre]

alright so I played the last mission again, and my last post I did the geth fighter mission and nothing changed. I was never given the paragon/renegade options in the left hand side of the dialog wheel to do anything. It was either the quarians or the geth, no peace between them.

I am 50/50 on paragon/renegade and a completely full reputation bar.

the option simply was not given.

No matter what I do, I either lose one fleet or the other. I have no idea what I'm doing wrong.

[RedundantAccount]

For me, it seemed to be Tali's status with the fleet. With Admiral Tali I got the "rally the troops" option. With exile Tali, I got nothing but heartache. Everything else was the same. Full paragon choices, rewrote heretics, allowed Legion to upload the code. As I recall, saving her from exile also required some specific prerequisites to get the "rally" dialogue option in the conclave or whatever it was.