355 réponses à ce sujet

[Taiyoroku]

This is a spoiler free forum so i can't put exactly whats bother me... after reading all the post i saw various positions and opinions, and i respect them... in my case, yes the three endings are bad, and in epic proportions, is not the tragic "Save private Ryan " thing that make me fell bad... is the Matrix kind of ending what ****** me off, I mean seriously? WTH happen to all my choices on previous games....

Somehow I understand the Haters Ending side... ME was revolutionary in some aspects, continuing with your character in other games of the series, importing your save game with your own custom face (well i suppose theres a limit for customization), but all comes to the point of desitions... they give you a choice (Bioware) be a neutral guy, be a Paladin of justice (good guy) or been a bad ass i could care less about you (Renegade) kind of character... them in this one first anything you chose so far not matters at all... i chose to kill people, i save people i do like what... 2 or 4 play troughs, 2 Shepards bad and good... i remember that i feel so sad when most of my squad died in the suicidal mission them i maxed my pala and renegade points to gain their trust and that way get the survivor achievement... them i get Tali, yes that helmet alien that somehow makes me laugh couse i like that kind of girl, yes the silly in love but capable and reliable kind, cute in her own way... them marsh to the shadow broker and stop/allow their things... show a finger to the illusive man and destroy/save the collector base, put a friend in top of a nuke to defeat Saren to finally kick his ass in the citadel, fight the 2.2 kms reaper with a really cool blast from Jeff "Joker" Moreau, nuke the human reaper... chose to kill a planet to delay the reaper invasion....

So yes is a game, but is or was i don't now yet one of the best, and was because give you the illusion of directing a destiny, the illusion of making a path of your own, you spent all that time making the thing that in real life you couldn't, having memories of what you suspected... a galactic conflict should be... them with any warning all is over... but you dont have any desition own what therms... I see in the ones that are "****ing" like someones refers to the subject the real problem and was that nothing of the thing you do... the memories and real feelings of your Shepard (couse yes is kind a reflection of what you are or what your alter ego whats to do) is not achievable because they (Developers and so) not let you, so yes if you wanna sacrifice do it, if you wanna have a happy ending with your virtual lover do it, if you wanna charge in a battle of epic proportions do it, if you wanna join the reapers do so, what the heck if you wanna make the illusive man your wife DO SO...

but them you realise that every come to the same... Is really THAT BAD? you ask... Yes it is.... Bigtime, not the 5 or 6 minute videos... the lack of finish the history, a histrory you can call  your own is what depress you... (thoug i know that the choises would be few but at least wass yours not a color change in the same thing) 76 hour of total playing for and average 1 to 3 ME gamer... 120 for me.... so yes i admit it... I cried and feel sorrow... couse in the end is so "LIFE SCUKS" deal with it...

Modifié par Taiyoroku, 13 mars 2012 - 03:52 .

[The Razman]

Darkeus wrote...

Again, a point becomes universal if enough people believe it.  Leave this site and see what is being said around the net.

I would say that it may not be so subjective.  You believe one thing and some agree with you.  I believe on thing and quite a few agree with that.

Some others are in the middle somewhere. 

In short, people don't like the conculsion because it is a BAD conclusion.  Not because it invoked a sad emotional response.  This is not the emotional response of a good ending, quite the opposite as a matter of fact.

But hey, to each their own....

I'm going to do it. I'll hate myself for it, but I'm going to do it. Here it goes:

People believed the Reapers weren't coming when Sheperd said it. That point was universal ... how did that turn out? 

Anyway, it's a rather non-convincing argument that the mob is always right. Unless we can have this argument on a field of objectivity, avoiding all the subjective factors (which means assuming that the ending was neither satisfying nor unsatisfying for either of us, and judging it on its creative merits only), then there's no point having the discussion at all. It's just boiled down to "well, more people seem to agree with me so that makes me right" now ... and that's just a bit silly.

[sfam]

The game is still very much worth playing (just finished it), but yeah, the ending totally brakes faith with most anyone who loves the most awesome story that has developed over the three games, and with fans of good gaming.

[Wuppie]

Honestly, I feel that the vast majority of problems people are having come from ME1 + ME2 doing such a brilliant job that BioWare almost doomed themselves to failure.

Expectations are a dangerous thing. Invariably they cannot be lived up to or are found to be invalid / misguided.

Maybe nowdays I am somewhat of a cynic, but I try my hardest not to have expectations that are overly specific with things I am looking forward to out of fear of disapointment.

Going into Mass Effect 3 - a series I have followed since it was announced all that time ago - I had an idea of things I wanted, not true expectations and certainly not some weird dogma of goals BioWare had to meet.

Amongst them:
Stop the Reapers for good.
Resolve companions story threads.
Choose between Liara and Miranda (my main bugbear with ME3 was Miranda was far too absent for it to be a meaningful choice)

Honestly, all of them were satisfied as they were realistic, sensible and slightly vague.

I'll say it again, as ME3 progressed the likelihood of a deus ex machina ending grew and grew. A main theme that I felt was relatively untouched in ME2 returned in ME3 (Organics vs Synthetics).

Also, I have always appreciated the truly alien nature of the reapers and their paradoxical purpose is highly consistent with that. Soverign's discussion with Shepard on Virmire is echoed by the being on the citadel at the end. And to be fair, the origins of the reapers are left entirely vague and open to conjecture.

The concept of choice in a video game has always struck me as odd and honestly, improbable that it will ever play out like you could imagine. And that people is the issue, my imagination cannot be accounted for, in the end the game choices we make are ultimately binary in nature and I feel that by fleshing out each choice with the relevant faction / companion / character before the endgame I recieved a far better sense of closure to each thread. This game BioWare the freedom to give us one last big choice at the end, and we got that choice in the fashion of all the others.

I will acknowledge the errors and such with some of the post choice cinematics regarding people being aboard the Normandy for no logical or possible reason but meh, I'm a big boy and can move on.

I feel that BioWare wanted us to make a gutwrenching decision about the galaxy's fate at the end of Shepards story and in my opinion - mission accomplished. Remember, Casey Hudson said that Mass Effect was Shepards story and by god do we get resolution for that.

Please, bear in mind that a game as big as Mass Effect could never possibly resolve all story threads and they probably decided not to do a text epilogue as Mass Effect has always been a "cinematic experience" and doing that Dragon Age slide show would diminish that.

To end, enjoy Mass Effect for what it is, a great space opera. Try not to judge it with standards that can only be met with the power of imagination only.

I challenge you to find another game that even attempts something as grand as Mass Effect.
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Now find one that does it better

[bleachorange]

The Razman wrote...

bleachorange wrote...

A LOT of people find it unsatisfying. Not withstanding that I now view the ending in a different light doesn't mean I'm not dissatidfied with it. I'm upset for an entirely different reason if my line of thinking is true, brilliant plot not withstanding. If, I'm wtrong, then, yes, the finale is a crappy end to a glorious universe.

Then a LOT of people have an opinion?

A lot of people didn't like the way Star Wars ended too.

Let's shorten this up a little. Yes, but SW has an easily acceptable, easily understood cinematic ending, and the extended universe for the truly interested (Thrawn is awesome). Mass Effect has neither at this time. But as I have said, without spoiling things, I now view the ending in a different light. I think (If I'm right) the plot is brilliant, but cuts itself short of the finale. Which is not what Bioware advertised. That is now what I am upset about. More info here, but spoilers abound.   http://social.biowar...13/blog/211725/

Modifié par bleachorange, 13 mars 2012 - 03:54 .

[Mx_CN3]

The Razman wrote...

That's a good logical rebuttal. It's a little bit long to put in the game ... it was better being said the way Sheperd did ... subtextually.

The point is that while you're arguing against it, you plainly see the logic which the Starchild was working on. I don't see how you disagreeing with that logic makes the whole situation not make sense?

I only agree with some of it.  By that, I mean that I can see where they're coming from when they say they want to allow each race a chance to flourish.  But then I don't understand why they do so, then destroy them, for something that may or may not happen.  If the concern is a singularity, then why do they assist the galaxy with technology?  Sovereign said by using the relays/Citadel "your society develops along the paths we desire."  Does that mean they want us to go towards a singularity?  **POSSIBLE SPOILER** Yet we get the exact opposite from the ending, it basically implies that they think they're doing us a favor.  **END POSSIBLE SPOILER**

There is some logic to part of their reasoning, but the major part of it is illogical and their method of solving it is asinine (and a massive waste of both resources and evolution).

[The Razman]

bleachorange wrote...

Let's shorten this up a little. Yes, but SW has an easily acceptable, easily understood cinematic ending, and the extended universe for the truly interested (Thrawn is awesome). Mass Effect has neither at this time. But as I have said, without spoiling things, I view the ending in a different light. I think (If I'm right) the plot is brilliant, but cuts itself short of the finale. Which is not what Bioware advertised. That is now what I am upset about. More info here, but spoilers abound.   http://social.biowar...13/blog/211725/

Apart from the Normandy thing (which is not even a plothole if you get the red, bad ending) ... I don't see where the argument of the ending not "making sense" comes from. The Starchild's reasoning is fine, the situation with the Normandy is understandable ...? I'm actually the one who asked you that question in that blog, so I've read that response and PMed you about it already in the past. :happy:

I've heard that it doesn't make sense, and then after I've questioned on that, it's "well, it didn't really fit in with the story up to that point" ... which I don't get, considering the entire story has been leading up to finding out just exactly why the Reapers are doing what they're doing ... and then we have it explained to us. Extremely relevent, it's the last big mystery in the story arc answered. I wouldn't mind if people said that they just don't like the conclusions ... but it bugs me when people claim some kind of objectivity in saying it doesn't make sense, or doesn't fit in with the story or something.

[Taiyoroku]

Again I said it... is the choices... what you do in previous games doesn't matter at all, if easier to just start playing ME3 with a non imported character... the result should be the same... XD

[MattFini]

It's actually worse. Ending = ****e.

[PaladinMesser]

wizkid1696 wrote...

So, all over the interwebz, ive seen non-stop moaning about these endings, and even organized groups to protest it.

I mean, jeez, what in the world....

So please, tell me. Is it REALLY that bad, and if you can without spoilers, what about it is so awful? Are knots not tied up? Does it leave too much to the imagination? Is the final level just really stupid?


Please,  I must know.

Yes it is that bad! I've seen all 3 of the supposed 16 endings and they are all the same. The only differece is the inferred fate of the galaxy and your choice between a red, green, or blue light.
I guess what they meant by 16 "endings" was they very small differences in the few cut scenes durning and before the last battle. I mean like a few lines of dialouge and 2 seconds of showing which ships jump in before the battle. Whether or not certian NPCs are available to talk to right before the attack and possibly they counted having different LIs as being different endings. EA\\BW using cheap tricks like that to count as "alternate endings" thats the only way I can think of that they got to the number 16 as being the number of availabe endings.

It really boils down to 3 "different" ending cut scenes steming from the final choice which at most has only 3 options. Nothing else you did in the entire series matters. Whether you went full paragon, full Renagade, which cilvilazations you saved or didn't save, who is alive or dead. No matter what you're other decisions in the series were as long as you made it here the endings are the same. There is no closure, it's un-Shepard-ly, huge plot holes, it doesn't fit with the rest of the game and makes no sence. To answer your question " Does it leave too much to the imagination?" it does and how you end up there is stupid. The effects of your decision is only inferred you don't see what happens to the galaxy beyond a few minutes from your final choice and are left to use your imagination I guess.

Out of the 3 options the only real diffence in the ending cut scene is the color of the light, so for all intents and purposes as consumers and gamers/fans/spectators/audience  means there is only one ending. It's an uninspired, lazy, attempt to be artsy and deep. Its not, it is just unstatifying, confusing, and well bad. I and most others find this completly unacceptable especially for a very personal, moral, choice/decision based 100+ story/game that we've spent a lot of money on.

Not to mention that they lied to us about this epic game series with a story spanning hours in which the ending will ultimately be decided on all the choices you've made throughout the series. In reality there is one ending with your choice of a red blue or green light.

[bleachorange]

The Razman wrote...

bleachorange wrote...

Let's shorten this up a little. Yes, but SW has an easily acceptable, easily understood cinematic ending, and the extended universe for the truly interested (Thrawn is awesome). Mass Effect has neither at this time. But as I have said, without spoiling things, I view the ending in a different light. I think (If I'm right) the plot is brilliant, but cuts itself short of the finale. Which is not what Bioware advertised. That is now what I am upset about. More info here, but spoilers abound.   http://social.biowar...13/blog/211725/

Apart from the Normandy thing (which is not even a plothole if you get the red, bad ending) ... I don't see where the argument of the ending not "making sense" comes from. The Starchild's reasoning is fine, the situation with the Normandy is understandable ...? I'm actually the one who asked you that question in that blog, so I've read that response and PMed you about it already in the past. :happy:

I've heard that it doesn't make sense, and then after I've questioned on that, it's "well, it didn't really fit in with the story up to that point" ... which I don't get, considering the entire story has been leading up to finding out just exactly why the Reapers are doing what they're doing ... and then we have it explained to us. Extremely relevent, it's the last big mystery in the story arc answered. I wouldn't mind if people said that they just don't like the conclusions ... but it bugs me when people claim some kind of objectivity in saying it doesn't make sense, or doesn't fit in with the story or something.

Watch the video, dude, and listen to the reasoning. Here, check out the discussion in this group, http://social.biowar.../&v=discussions it elaborates on my thoughts. Sorry if it seemed like I was rehashing things, but that is a convenient blog to post things to, as it answers so much without me typing. I should probably have explained better earlier, but this is 'non-spoiler' so, I took a shortcut.

[Vasarkian]

I said this earlier and it was ignored, but as long as your assets that you spend 27+ hours accumulating don't actually factor into any impact outside of a number generated that may or may not affect the crucible-based ending, there will be no way to make a better ending because the fleets and soldiers are just going to be ignored as was done.

In the entirety of the game, your assets end up meaning nothing regardless of how much you have and what you try to do with them, not that you can actually do anything with them or send them to help garrison or fight off areas.

The 5 minute ending is what has the focus of the anger at this game but that's just the ending, regardless of how well polished or good the game was, so long as the primary thing you do for the game doesn't actually factor into anything in any positive or negative manner... this game can never breach more than a 6.5 because a critical part is missing. You focus on the symptom of the illness of this game, while ignoring the actual illness.

[Taiyoroku]

PaladinMesser wrote...

wizkid1696 wrote...

So, all over the interwebz, ive seen non-stop moaning about these endings, and even organized groups to protest it.

I mean, jeez, what in the world....

So please, tell me. Is it REALLY that bad, and if you can without spoilers, what about it is so awful? Are knots not tied up? Does it leave too much to the imagination? Is the final level just really stupid?


Please,  I must know.

Yes it is that bad! I've seen all 3 of the supposed 16 endings

.... The only game in my life with that kind or amout of endings was Chrono Tigger... here i only see 3 and yes your choises doesn't matter.... and yes only 3 lights... matrix style!

[kleindropper]

wizkid1696 wrote...

So, all over the interwebz, ive seen non-stop moaning about these endings, and even organized groups to protest it.

I mean, jeez, what in the world....

So please, tell me. Is it REALLY that bad, and if you can without spoilers, what about it is so awful? Are knots not tied up? Does it leave too much to the imagination? Is the final level just really stupid?


Please,  I must know.

Everything is pretty good until the last 5 minutes which make you want to throw everything labeled "Mass Effect" you have into the garbage.  I take that back, keep your ME1 and ME2 and pretend the Collectors are the Reapers.

[Taiyoroku]

Vasarkian wrote...

I said this earlier and it was ignored, but as long as your assets that you spend 27+ hours accumulating don't actually factor into any impact outside of a number generated that may or may not affect the crucible-based ending, there will be no way to make a better ending because the fleets and soldiers are just going to be ignored as was done.

In the entirety of the game, your assets end up meaning nothing regardless of how much you have and what you try to do with them, not that you can actually do anything with them or send them to help garrison or fight off areas.

The 5 minute ending is what has the focus of the anger at this game but that's just the ending, regardless of how well polished or good the game was, so long as the primary thing you do for the game doesn't actually factor into anything in any positive or negative manner... this game can never breach more than a 6.5 because a critical part is missing. You focus on the symptom of the illness of this game, while ignoring the actual illness.

what you said is true... actually we think the same... nothing change even if you chose something... i new from the start were they say paragon and renegade in the same bar... this is gonna be trouble lol... but yes, and i said it before, for the one that star thist post... go with a new ME3 character... what you did or did not in the previous ones doesn't matter at all!

[walcol]

wizkid1696 wrote...
Is the final level just really stupid?

Please,  I must know.

These competent game-writers suddenly decided they were writing a Big Movie.  Result: a pretentious lecture that is dreary, pompous, long-winded and a complete let-down.

They have made some simple mistakes that no good screen writer would make.  Mainly, they confuse BACKGROUND (Reapers, save the galaxy) with FOREGROUND (Shephard's odyssey).  No one gives a hoot about the background.  We care about our lead character.  

It is very badly done indeed.  What a shame: a great game series like Mass Effect deserves a better send-off than this.  

You can just see the producers and their swelled heads believing they are geniuses.  Nope.  

Dragon Age II, anyone?

[kglaser]

Just please, tell me it's not like St. Elsewhere.

[bleachorange]

I think that if you play correctly and get a certain ending, it may offer the opportunity for insight into a certain...shall we say deception. Perhaps, perhaps not. I am currently using this theory to continue playing the game. If you want more info, I have previous posts on this page with it, but it's all spoilerific.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

I did what I wanted to do. I Destroyed them. The Reapers made us go through SO MUCH Hell, so I threw hell back at them.

Too bad though. I would have Loved to see the Same Type of Closure for MANY Final Installments in ME3, like Return Of The Jedi (Maybe), Harry Potter, and The Lord Of The Rings. I know those are Books and Films, but Games should ALSO Have Endings JUST AS GOOD!


I just wish there was MORE and BETTER Closure, like a HAPPY Ending with My LI, Miri<3.

We will just have to wait and see if BioWare has something for us....

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 13 mars 2012 - 04:42 .

[Reptilian Rob]

kglaser wrote...

Just please, tell me it's not like St. Elsewhere.

Much worse, so much worse.

[bleachorange]

Am I lucky to have no clue what St. Elsewhere is?

[Reptilian Rob]

bleachorange wrote...

Am I lucky to have no clue what St. Elsewhere is?

Nah, Mass Effect 3's ending is a lot worse than that. 

[nikki191]

in one fell swoop bioware turned what was my favourite game in 32 years of gaming into something that i cant replay because the ending makes all your work pointless in the end. yeah its bad