355 réponses à ce sujet

[Demyx_IX]

The fool you should have eaten wrote...

Let him go. I have not played the game, but you have repeated your arguement many times, and it has not, and most likely, will not, take root. This will cause you more stress than do anyone else good. People don't like changing opinions. On topic though, I am suprised given what spoilers that I have heard, at how many people are not just satisfied with the endings, but happy with them. As I said all that I know is based off of references to spoilers, so I really can't say anything until I have played the game.

It's a discussion section. What else to do, but discuss? 

[Bluefuse]

The final 10 minutes will make you feel that Mass Effect told the wrong story the whole time and that none of the choices you made mattered at all. You really don't see how any of your choices unfold...

[Praetor Knight]

I'll just say that I did not like the ending, if we can call it that.

I was confused and disappointed with what we were shown after seeing the Normandy, and I really hate that kid now.

[Wuppie]

bleetman wrote...

Wuppie wrote...

Wrong (imo), they have not sold you a toaster and delivered a kettle, or sold you a faulty motorbike. They sold you a story, albiet an interactive one which you didnt like the ending of.
One of my favourite authors (Raymond E Feist) is currently writing the final book of 20+ which is clearly going to kill off the main character(s), will I be happy with that? Probably not, will I be angry - HELL NO! Because it is his work to do with as he wishes.

If I were to purchase a toaster, I would expect certain things of it. I would expect, for instance, that it would toast bread. I expect a kettle to boil water. I expect a motorbike to function as a motorbike should. When I buy something with a strong narrative component - be in a game, a book, or film, or whatever - I have similar expectations. Primarily, I'm looking for consistency. I'm looking for story events that fit within the given setting and are handled in satisfying - if not always enjoyable - ways. I expect stories to make sense.

I can't speak for everyone, but I'm not angry at the ME3 endings because they were sad. Hell, mine wasn't actually sad. As far as I know, everybody from the These Are Major Characters list but one walked away still breathing. It wasn't a tragic ending for me. It was inconsistent, nonsensical and entirely unsatisfying to me. It offered no attempts at closure, or to demonstrate the effect of your choices earlier in the series. I'm angry, and I feel perfectly rational in being so.

Again, I disagree that the endings were inconsistent.

For all three games it felt like Shepard was going to have to sacrifice to save the galaxy - in virtually all possible endings that holds true.
The overarching conflict of Organics vs Synthetics was brought to a head and shown to be an extension of Order vs Chaos (a very old cliched dichotomy) - this also is resolved by the choice of the Paragon / Renegade / Neutral options  - which you will note is VERY consistant with ALL choices made throughout Mass Effect 1-3.

Your description of it being unsatisfying highlights the point I have been trying to make, you PERSONALLY would have preferred something else, well at the risk of sounding like a ****** - stiff ****! These are the options BioWare wanted to present you with, if you didnt like them there is not a thing they can do to resolve that.

Sorry if I offend, but truly this is an example of the afforementioned "entitlement" issue. Whilst Bleetman is not going all aggro at BioWare (for which I applaud you) it shows that by not living up to Bleetmans expectations BioWare has somehow failed... I will never understand this.

(Sorry if I singled you out agreesively Bleetman!)

[kbct]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

... and I really hate that kid now.

I chuckled.

[kbct]

Wuppie wrote...

Again, I disagree that the endings were inconsistent.

You're a rare breed then, Wuppie. A lot of people thought they introduced a deus ex machina.

[Cirreus]

www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/03/12/how-bioware-could-find-redemption-using-mass-effect-3/

forbes is throwing down it's 2 cents & it's on the side of the gamers here against the endings provided as is in-game.

[bleachorange]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

I'll just say that I did not like the ending, if we can call it that.

I was confused and disappointed with what we were shown after seeing the Normandy, and I really hate that kid now.

I hated him before, right from the first 'nightmare'. Surely some kid I saw twice for 5 seconds isn't the only trauma Shepard has endured, and certainly not the hardest. Wouldn't leaving your squaddie behind on Vermire cause you more trauma? Wouldn't seeing those people inside the collector base being dissolved before your very eyes cause more trauma? If you lost squadmembers, or crewman in the suicide mission, wouldn't that be much more haunting, as someone you knew, and therefore (more likely to) miss, than some random brat? I'll post a link here if you want more info. beware, spoilers for the ending abound in it.

http://social.biowar...13/blog/211725/

[Hell OX77]

play the game and find out. i did not mind it, because its the last game of sheps story.
but everyone have there own views on it. make your own, because you have one, and not because everyone else says so.

[Wuppie]

kbct wrote...

Wuppie wrote...

Again, I disagree that the endings were inconsistent.

You're a rare breed then, Wuppie. A lot of people thought they introduced a deus ex machina.

Which when dealing with such an overwhelming powerful and theoretically unstoppable force like the reapers is to be somewhat expected.

You are told at least 5 times that you cannot win this war conventionally.... What really does that leave from a narrative perspective.

Hey, at least they ended it all with the possiblilty that this whole thing was told by an unreliable narrator... now thats something to get upset about!

[C9316]

No matter what you do, the galaxy ends up f*cked...

[The Razman]

I can see where you are coming from about ME2, it wasn't much of a suicide mission if you did it right. They should just have called the mission something else and less people would probably dislike it. 

As for ME3, it was indeed emotional to see Shepard die/vanish. But not the right kind of emotions. Sure it started in sadness, but for me who doesn't only care about emotions in a game/endings it soon lead to depression, then ultimately just dissapointed and angry. Because the endings themselves were terrible. They idn't make any sense, was barely any different (can't be consindered true multiple different endings) and was poorly made and scripted.

I'd really like to know what part didn't make sense? All of it made perfect sense to me, I wasn't confused at the end.

And to the "fool" guy who said "Let it go, he's never going to change his mind" ... please don't do that. I'm always open to changing my mind about things, and if people took your suggestion then there'd be nothing to do here except everyone moaning.

[Mx_CN3]

Wuppie wrote...

Again, I disagree that the endings were inconsistent.

For all three games it felt like Shepard was going to have to sacrifice to save the galaxy - in virtually all possible endings that holds true.
The overarching conflict of Organics vs Synthetics was brought to a head and shown to be an extension of Order vs Chaos (a very old cliched dichotomy) - this also is resolved by the choice of the Paragon / Renegade / Neutral options  - which you will note is VERY consistant with ALL choices made throughout Mass Effect 1-3.

Your description of it being unsatisfying highlights the point I have been trying to make, you PERSONALLY would have preferred something else, well at the risk of sounding like a ****** - stiff ****! These are the options BioWare wanted to present you with, if you didnt like them there is not a thing they can do to resolve that.

Sorry if I offend, but truly this is an example of the afforementioned "entitlement" issue. Whilst Bleetman is not going all aggro at BioWare (for which I applaud you) it shows that by not living up to Bleetmans expectations BioWare has somehow failed... I will never understand this.

(Sorry if I singled you out agreesively Bleetman!)

He is right though, it is inconsitent.  It introduces completely new aspects to the story that we only got a tiny clue of once, and even that was fairly late in ME3.  He also specifically said that he didn't mind a sad ending.  A lot of people, though I wouldn't presume to be able to say most, went into ME3 expecting a sad ending.

What he wanted, and what we were told we would get, is closure.  Read the quote from up there a few posts, they specifically said they would leave us with answers, not questions.  Which they did not do.  While the questions we were left with might be interesting to some people (such as yourself), it is ultimately not what we were told we would get.  People do obviously feel entitled, as we were told we would get something, then didn't!

Also, yes, they did put in the Order vs. Chaos dichotomy.  But really, was Mass Effect ever about that?  Sovereign mentioned it in passing in ME1, but the subject was never again breached.  I don't really object to them putting it in the game somewhere (BioWare has a long history of putting interesting views on old questions in games), but it should never have been the focus of the finale.

Modifié par Mx_CN3, 13 mars 2012 - 01:42 .

[bleetman]

Wuppie wrote...

Your description of it being unsatisfying highlights the point I have been trying to make, you PERSONALLY would have preferred something else.

Well, yeah. I didn't try to pretend otherwise. Pointing out that I'm speaking from my opinion isn't news.

Wuppie wrote...

Sorry if I offend, but truly this is an example of the afforementioned "entitlement" issue. Whilst Bleetman is not going all aggro at BioWare (for which I applaud you) it shows that by not living up to Bleetmans expectations BioWare has somehow failed... I will never understand this.

Entitlement and expectation aren't the same thing. If I were to demand that they release additional content that rewrote the endings to my suit my requirements and to hell with everyone else or what Bioware wanted, sure, that'd be entitlement. I didn't. I explained why I was disappointed with the endings that're there. Criticising something you didn't enjoy doesn't make you "entitled".

If Bioware decide to take up this disappointment and do something about it, that's up to them, but I don't expect them to.

Modifié par bleetman, 13 mars 2012 - 01:40 .

[kbct]

Wuppie wrote...

kbct wrote...

Wuppie wrote...

Again, I disagree that the endings were inconsistent.

You're a rare breed then, Wuppie. A lot of people thought they introduced a deus ex machina.

Which when dealing with such an overwhelming powerful and theoretically unstoppable force like the reapers is to be somewhat expected.

You are told at least 5 times that you cannot win this war conventionally.... What really does that leave from a narrative perspective.

Hey, at least they ended it all with the possiblilty that this whole thing was told by an unreliable narrator... now thats something to get upset about!

There are lots of ways to end it without introducing a god-child-casper thing. You should look at some of the alternate endings people besides Mac Walters wrote.

There is a reason why so many people dislike the ending. It sucks. The triology and epic story deserve better.

Modifié par kbct, 13 mars 2012 - 01:43 .

[The Razman]

bleachorange wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

I'll just say that I did not like the ending, if we can call it that.

I was confused and disappointed with what we were shown after seeing the Normandy, and I really hate that kid now.

I hated him before, right from the first 'nightmare'. Surely some kid I saw twice for 5 seconds isn't the only trauma Shepard has endured, and certainly not the hardest. Wouldn't leaving your squaddie behind on Vermire cause you more trauma? Wouldn't seeing those people inside the collector base being dissolved before your very eyes cause more trauma? If you lost squadmembers, or crewman in the suicide mission, wouldn't that be much more haunting, as someone you knew, and therefore (more likely to) miss, than some random brat? I'll post a link here if you want more info. beware, spoilers for the ending abound in it.

http://social.biowar...13/blog/211725/

I'd agree, but it's made clear at several points during the game that Sheperd feels very very strongly about Earth, right from his trauma at having to leave instead of fighting to the death to defend it. Seeing your squadmates killed is one thing (especially for my Sole Survivor Sheperd, he's seen it before) ... being on Earth and seeing a small boy die and being able to do nothing to save him, it's very possible this could tap into Sheperd's feelings of abandoning Earth and his pain at not being able to save everyone there.

[bleachorange]

Cirreus wrote...

www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2012/03/12/how-bioware-could-find-redemption-using-mass-effect-3/

forbes is throwing down it's 2 cents & it's on the side of the gamers here against the endings provided as is in-game.

And here's validation:

[/b]Paul Tassi[/b]
‏
@PaulTassi


Three of the five top stories on @forbes are about Mass Effect between me and @erikkain, and that, is why we write about video games folks.

[Konges]

I once thought that a new ending was needed then I watch this.



It made sense and the clues all added up.

Sorry Bioware. I just got cought up in the moment.

[The Razman]

kbct wrote...

Wuppie wrote...

kbct wrote...

Wuppie wrote...

Again, I disagree that the endings were inconsistent.

You're a rare breed then, Wuppie. A lot of people thought they introduced a deus ex machina.

Which when dealing with such an overwhelming powerful and theoretically unstoppable force like the reapers is to be somewhat expected.

You are told at least 5 times that you cannot win this war conventionally.... What really does that leave from a narrative perspective.

Hey, at least they ended it all with the possiblilty that this whole thing was told by an unreliable narrator... now thats something to get upset about!

There are lots of ways to end it without introducing a god-child-casper thing. You should look at some of the alternative endings people besides Mac Walters wrote.

There is a reason so many people dislike the ending. It's sucks. The triology and epic story deserves better.

kbct, I've yet to see you offer any constructive opinion regarding why it "sucks".

[Darth Malignus]

wizkid1696 wrote...

So, all over the interwebz, ive seen non-stop moaning about these endings, and even organized groups to protest it.

I mean, jeez, what in the world....

So please, tell me. Is it REALLY that bad, and if you can without spoilers, what about it is so awful? Are knots not tied up? Does it leave too much to the imagination? Is the final level just really stupid?


Please,  I must know.

Without spoilers: The last 15 minutes are a travesty and takes everything you build up in all the 3 games and reduces it to a game of "What's behind the 3 doors?". Blatant rip-off of Matrix Revolutions, Battlestar Galactica, Deus Ex, Gilligans Island (and not in the good way) and probably some more.

To put it simply: Shepards 5-seconds line "The Reapers are still out there. And I have a job to do." from Mass Effect 1 was infinitely better and equally more well written than the last 15 minutes of ME3 combined.

Modifié par Darth Malignus, 13 mars 2012 - 01:47 .

[Mx_CN3]

bleachorange wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

I'll just say that I did not like the ending, if we can call it that.

I was confused and disappointed with what we were shown after seeing the Normandy, and I really hate that kid now.

I hated him before, right from the first 'nightmare'. Surely some kid I saw twice for 5 seconds isn't the only trauma Shepard has endured, and certainly not the hardest. Wouldn't leaving your squaddie behind on Vermire cause you more trauma? Wouldn't seeing those people inside the collector base being dissolved before your very eyes cause more trauma? If you lost squadmembers, or crewman in the suicide mission, wouldn't that be much more haunting, as someone you knew, and therefore (more likely to) miss, than some random brat? I'll post a link here if you want more info. beware, spoilers for the ending abound in it.

http://social.biowar...13/blog/211725/

According to the artbook in the collector's edition, the kid in Shepard's dreams is supposed to represent all of the people on Earth that Shepard didn't or can't save.  Though Shepard did mention him to Garrus at one point...

Don't ask me about the ending though, because I really have no idea.

[K_Tabris]

It's so much worse than we thought. I had read the script, and was all prepared for the ending. Well, I just finished the game around 9:30, and it left me feeling nauseous. It was the worse, darkest, most depressing end to a franchise I ever experienced.

[RocketManSR2]

Darth Malignus wrote...

Without spoilers: The last 15 minutes are a travesty and takes everything you build up in all the 3 games and reduces it to a game of "What's behind the 3 doors?". Blatant rip-off of Matrix Revolutions, Battlestar Galactica, Deus Ex, Gilligans Island (and not in the good way) and probably some more.

To put it simply: Shepards 5-seconds line "The Reapers are still out there. And I have a job to do." from Mass Effect 1 was infinitely better and equally more well written than the last 15 minutes of ME3 combined.

No matter which "door" is opened, the prize behind it sucks.