91 réponses à ce sujet

[HKR148]

SandTrout wrote...

GoblinSapper wrote...

Free Market goes both ways. Don't tell us "it's our product, we do with it what we want" then cry like a baby when you suffer the backlash from market forces.

Free Market is ruthless. Free Market is unkind. Most people don't like -real- free Market, where Consumers have equal power to Producers, they like Corporate-centric Free Market, where consumers are money filled Pinata's that can be whacked open over and over.

Don't like it? Get out of the free Market.

I salute you, good sir! o7

Reality is fairly harsh, and this whole situation wasn't because very few people have decided to started a mob movement against Bioware. There are plenty of logical reason to what amounted to the current situation and they had it coming. We have little reason to be ashamed of that. However that does not mean... people are free to stop being civil and build constructive criticism, so let's make sure that we keeps ourselves within the limit of decency.

[TheAsphodel]

ynh wrote...

GoblinSapper wrote...

Free Market goes both ways. Don't tell us "it's our product, we do with it what we want" then cry like a baby when you suffer the backlash from market forces.

Free Market is ruthless. Free Market is unkind. Most people don't like -real- free Market, where Consumers have equal power to Producers, they like Corporate-centric Free Market, where consumers are money filled Pinata's that can be whacked open over and over.

Don't like it? Get out of the free Market.

Thousand times this.

Don't take the risks if you can't handle them.

+1

[Themanclaw]

Right or wrong, it's business. When people feel let down by what you're selling your demand will drop, and so will the price at which you have to sell it.

[bloodstalker1973]

What is unethical about a consumer base reacting to a product they bought? By extension, there is nothing unethical in potentail buyers reading reviews and deciding they would rather not buy the game based on those reviews. Nor is it unethical if such a reaction causes sellers to lower the price to move the porduct off their shelves. It's just the way the market works. I don;t see any real price drops outside of the ordinary here, but still, the market is and will always be consumer driven.

No company has an inherent right to have people buy their games. Bioware is not entitled to a certain amount of sales because they make games, nor are people required to purchase games made. If they want to go in a direction based on percieved artistic integrity, that's fine. But if the consumer base decides they don't like that direction, well, that's just the way business is done.

[Nathos]

jspiess wrote...

In my opinion, no it does not deserve a price drop. But, if that is what takes to hear something from them, then yes I am fine with it.

QFT

[McBeath]

Yeah, it's deserved.

I paid just under $100 for my CE, and for that I'd like to play it multiple times. I often rented games to try them out prior to purchse, but Bioware has always been one of the few developers who I would pre-order games for due to thier reputation and quality. I think alot of people would agree.

This though has really soured me... I can't see myself playing it again for awhile unless the ending is fixed. ME2 I pretty much played for a whole month!

Likely this is the only way that somebody with the authority to impliment changes will notice.

Cheers. McBeath.

[Jynx161]

I think the downrating is a bit overboard, but Bioware must have seen this coming. Either that or they really didn't understand the fanbase they were dealing with. If you leave people feeling betrayed they will always return the favor.

[Blayzereborn]

Capitalism is fantastic when it's working in your favour, isn't it?

[LordAsael]

The bulk force of the rating bomb is unethical. I find little value in a rating that is comprised of one or two lines of vitriol with a low rating. I do -- however -- find no trouble with reviews that provide a low rating and provide a solid reason for said rating. If you go into some detail to explain how the ending brought the game down to a rating of two in your eyes I'm happy to see that rating stand.

The many poorly written reviews with low scores are bothersome. I disliked the ending and it has hurt my appreciation for the rest of the game -- but I hate that people are being destructive towards BioWare at this point. Unfortunately even well thought reviews with low scores can be destructive if enough them are posted ... but then again there is a cost associated with failing to meet the needs of customers.

[CasbynessPC]

wulf3n wrote...

I'm not quite sure what you mean by unethical and fair?

Unethical - refer to "ME3 ending".
Fair - refer to "opposite of ME3 ending".

[Sashimi_taco]

I feel that in our current situation with being ignored and such, I think the only way to get their attention is to hurt their wallets.

however I have yet to see evidence of a price drop. Amazon still sells it for 60 dollars and there are always people selling it for less.

[Lambchopz]

This type of thing doesn't happen enough, honestly.

If people acted this way with more games where it was neccesary, I think the industry as a whole would be much better and filled with more quality.

If main thing that game devs respond to nowadays is money (And most of them certainly do place importance on it) then the best way to get them to listen is to cause them to make less money.

We hear lots of people complain about the Free Market because it supposedly takes advantage of customers -- well, here we are, the customers fighting back at that. That is the way it should always be. Nothing wrong with it.

If game devs want to start playing money hog, then consumers should realize that and act accordingly if they want it changed.

[Turtlicious]

Proof on the front page.

http://imgur.com/guXnE

If you don't know what I mean just state your opinion. Discussing is little more then semantics, and personally I feel it's off topic.

Also, this is not about bashing the ending. We have a hundred other threads for that.

[LadyofRivendell]

ME3 is the best game I've ever played, hands down, and easily took the top spot on my favorites list. Even with the ending, the rest of the game is still amazing. I'm glad the bigger websites are giving it good scores, user reviews don't really mean much in the bigger scope of things.

Not that I like the endings, I'm still really depressed whenever the thought enters my mind. But the price shouldn't drop because of it, and most of these user reviews are more than a little harsh.

Modifié par LadyofRivendell, 13 mars 2012 - 12:58 .

[Achire]

If the price drops at one specific retailer, then the logical conclusion to make is that this specific retailer is having a campaign. Amazon is selling the game at a very low mark-up or a loss to attract more customers. They're counting on that once people get over the barrier of making an Amazon account, they will be more likely to shop there in the future. So taking a loss on ME3 will translate into more sales and revenue in the long run. It's a business decision by Amazon that has nothing to do with the quality of the game or the ending. The analyst Michael Pachter explains this business strategy (2:00 onwards):


As for the reviews, it just shows how useless user reviews are. I mean really, it's a one star (or 0 on Metacritic) game because the ending completely sucks? The first Metacritic review I saw gave the game a 0 before it even came out because there are homosexual romances.

Modifié par Achire, 13 mars 2012 - 01:06 .

[Spectre 117]

I am not sure what's going on. I checked and the game is priced at 60 in the major distributors.

[McBeath]

LadyofRivendell wrote...

ME3 is the best game I've ever played, hands down, and easily took the top spot on my favorites list. Even with the ending, the rest of the game is still amazing. I'm glad the bigger websites are giving it good scores, user reviews don't really mean much in the bigger scope of things.

Not that I like the endings, I'm still really depressed whenever the thought enters my mind. But the price shouldn't drop because of it, and most of these user reviews are more than a little harsh.

Yes, it should.

A good beginning and a good ending are CRITICAL to the success of any story.  Who wants to sit through 15 minutes of crap in a movie just to see if the rest of it is good?  Same goes for the ending.

Frankly I paid $100.00 for something I really didn't enjoy in the end.  For me the price is too high.

That and it's a free market, where consumers decide as a group what a product is worth... sure you can sell it for more but will people buy?

Cheers.  McBeath.

[johannes1212]

hey at least now standard edition buyers can afford the full game (from ashes) at the original price am i right? herpderp

[BrotherFluffy]

Turtlicious wrote...


Also, this is not about bashing the ending. We have a hundred other threads for that.

Fair enough, but for most, if not all of us, the ending is the sole reason we're giving it poor reviews or not recommending it to our friends.  A friend asked me today if they should pick up ME3, and I told them no.  Because I don't want them to go through 30+ hours of gameplay to have all their choices count for nothing.  And I told them as such.  

[DasGota]

No one would have paid attention otherwise.

A lot of people are quick to say "vote with your wallet", however, much of the Mass Effect fanbase had been established before Mass Effect 3 was released. They knew this, and they counted on this to sell copies. This isn't a bunch of angry fans damaging a new IP, this is a group of paying customers who are upset that the endings were awful enough to, in effect, ruin the entire game for them. A game that they had put their faith in to being worth the money they paid for it.

What's happening now is the equivilent of voting with our wallet. They already have our money and at the bottom line, that's all they really wanted. I'm sure the Bioware team is taking this far more personally than EA, but as I stated in another thread... If we're only complaining quietly over here, a company could simply use an amazon.com 4.5/5 rating to state "we don't need to change a damn thing." Taking the "high road" in theory is the right thing to do, but it also makes valid complaints very easy to ignore.

Personally I think a lot of this could be soothed over by Bioware at least attempting some damage control, but until that happens expect a lot more outrage like this.

[Johnnycide]

Johnnycide wrote...

It's not actually going too far, if you think about it from an economic stand point. If people are dissatisfied with a product they'll value it accordingly. Same approach works in entertainment. Look at movies, they all start out at the $15 dollars a ticket new release, but if people don't like it, it gains poor reviews, and quickly ends up in the $1 theater. After all when it comes to businesses we've always been told to "vote with our wallets."

Personally I'm not participating in this, but I can understand it.

[zarnk567]

its no more unethical then their endings......

[AtreiyaN7]

I think a valid review with a low score is fine as long as it well-thought out reasoning, not ranting. This ratings bombing seems like a different matter, and I can't say I approve of it. I roughly equate that kind of behavior to someone giving a good, if expensive, app a low rating because it's not $1.99 or because they have an axe to grind so I tend to ignore the really low scores. *shrug*

[coldlogic82]

It's not a matter of ethical or fair. It's a matter of how it goes. They made a mistake. And it wasn't a small one. It was a massive, interstellar sized mistake. While the product was mostly good, what was bad about it was pretty much the one thing about it that couldn't be that bad. And it wasn't just a tiny mistake. It was massive, unbelievable, awe inspiring mistake. When you screw up that bad, people don't want your product. People don't want your product, you try to make it more appealing. The fastest and easiest way is to drop the price. Try to get people to go with the "I heard it's a great game except of the end, but, they dropped the price, and maybe at 40 bucks I'll try it."

[OMTING52601]

Regardless of what the Supreme Court of the United States may or may not have said, a company is not a living entity. It doesn't have feelings, it doesn't care about fair or not fair. It is an inanimate entity that exists solely to produce a product, which consumers will then consume, thus creating profit. Period.

So, I don't think you're original question is even applicable, really. You're personifying a corporation. I'm not being mean or anything, just that what you're asking doesn't have any bearing. This is a free market economy and this company is publicly held. If they aren't doing something right, whatever that may be, then consumers are going to leave and their publicly held shares are going to fall in price. There is no fair or unfair. It's business.

Just like having day one DLC was business. Just like having armor DLC, instead of story DLC, is business. Is that fair? What's fair or not fair? It's business. Is it then unfair that several devs and the writer are defending themselves in articles all over the net over the partial inclusion of said DLC and the perception that they may have lied to consumers about that DLC being on the disc? Fair, fair, fair, what's fair?

Consumer confidence is the game and right now, fair or not, BW and EA have lost a noticeable share of that. That's fair, in a free market. And the company will either endeavor to get that confidence back or they won't. If they don't and they lose profits, then that's fair too, in a free market. IMO, FWIW, and YMMV. Also, I'm not mad or belligerent or anything like that. Imagine these words were read by a computer, without inflection.