218 réponses à ce sujet

[jack of tears]

Traynor's romance isn't remotely as deep as Cortezs'; which again only leaves the s/s women with Liara as a real option unless you're going for something shallow. I admit women got it better in the s/s arena than men in this series, but that doesn't mean we're swimming in gold. (Liara is great, but she's our only decent option; while we've got Thane, Kaiden, Garrus, and Jacob as hetero options otherwise ... though, admittedly Jacob is a bit of a potato)

[Mara281]

dreman9999 wrote...

Let's see.
The guys get:
Liara
Tali
Ashley
Miranda
Jack
Cortez

The girls get
Liara
Thane
Kaiden
Garrus
Traynor
but have more gay romaces then straight. because of Liara.

You guy have less straight  romances.... The only problem would be if you don't like the options in Hand.

Actually the count is this:

Guys:                                              Girls:
Ashley                                             Kaidan
Diana                                              Garrus
Jack                                                 Diana    S/S
Miranda                                           Samantha    S/S
Liara                                                Liara      S/S
Tali
Cortez   S/S
Kaidan  S/S

Not only do we get just barely more than half, even gay shep gets 2 human male LI. Femshep gets 1. Only 2 hetero possibilities for femshep versus 6 for manshep? You cannot tell me that this in anyway has simply to do with not liking the options at hand. Plus the handling of the romances if you did romance Thane or Jacob were incredibly harsh and/or lacking.

Modifié par Mara281, 14 mars 2012 - 11:06 .

[jack of tears]

Mara281 wrote...
 It's a slap in the face. It's a move that says female players don't matter to them anymore. We want to stop this from getting worse. We want this to be fixed. We want to let BW know that we ARE important. That we DO matter. Hopefully, that helps, but I think I made the point better in my previous responses

To be fair, I suspect this is more of an EA influence than Bioware specifically ... there have been a number of questionable decisions making their way into the BW games since that purchase.  EA marketing probably looked at the numbers and said, "Ya know, we understand you kids like to be inclusive and all, but the profit margin just doesn't seem to be there ... maybe pull it back a bit ... save some cash". 

[Spiffy McBang]

dreman9999 wrote...

Meatus wrote...

I can't believe the amount of people trying to say that it's totally justifiable to give females LESS of a possibility of a diverse gaming experience than males, because a smaller percentage of the demographic of gamers is comprised of females.

Well guess what? More females make up the college student demographic in the US. Does that mean that it's totally justifiable to give male college students fewer classes that they can sign up for? To give them a less diverse educational experience and fewer opportunities, because they make up a smaller percentage? Even though they pay the same for their education as anyone else? Think about that. And have fun trying to justify it.

Let's see.
The guys get:
Liara
Tali
Ashley
Miranda
Jack
Cortez

The girls get
Liara
Thane
Kaiden
Garrus
Traynor
but have more gay romaces then straight. because of Liara.

You guy have less straight  romances.... The only problem would be if you don't like the options in Hand.

Your list is wrong.  Thane's romance is more like a reference to the fact there had been one previously as opposed to an actual romance.  Diana Allers is an option for both genders.  ManShep also gets Kaidan as an option.  So, where you're showing a 6/5 split, it's actually 8/5.  

There will always be people who don't like this or that option, but that's not the basis of the complaint.  The problem is that ManShep gets drastically more options, and that it's very possible (as many have pointed out from their own experiences) that a FemShep has zero potential male partners due to the availability of Kaidan and Garrus being dependent on choices from previous games.

[Mara281]

jack of tears wrote...

Mara281 wrote...
 It's a slap in the face. It's a move that says female players don't matter to them anymore. We want to stop this from getting worse. We want this to be fixed. We want to let BW know that we ARE important. That we DO matter. Hopefully, that helps, but I think I made the point better in my previous responses

To be fair, I suspect this is more of an EA influence than Bioware specifically ... there have been a number of questionable decisions making their way into the BW games since that purchase.  EA marketing probably looked at the numbers and said, "Ya know, we understand you kids like to be inclusive and all, but the profit margin just doesn't seem to be there ... maybe pull it back a bit ... save some cash". 

And that makes it right? So people should simply sell out their values for a bit of extra cash? Female gamers should just roll over and take it? No thank you. I'm fighting for this. BW should stand up and fight for it. Because their female players deserve better, and I for one am going to fight for better!

[Wynne]

Given the popularity of romantic comedies amongst women, a romance in itself will always be a selling point to women.

Given that 42% of gamers are women these days, it doesn't matter if we're only 10% now--adding romance options for women is key to drawing in female customers.

Thus, the old cliched arguments about how romances don't matter and women don't play Mass Effect are utterly irrelevant. 

SilentK wrote...

On a funnier note:

FemShep(that didn't romance Garrus in ME2), Liara and Vega walks towards the airlocks.
Liara: How come you never bring Kaidan to any missions? I thought that you would be happy to have him back on the ship?
FemShep: And risk anything happening to the last male LI in the galaxy, no way! Kaidan ain't getting of the Normandy, ever!
The camera pans over the Normandy, Kaidan is seen looking out of the windows, longingly. 

I heart you so much. That really made me laugh.

Modifié par Wynne, 14 mars 2012 - 11:06 .

[Alknost]

dreman9999 wrote...

Meatus wrote...

I can't believe the amount of people trying to say that it's totally justifiable to give females LESS of a possibility of a diverse gaming experience than males, because a smaller percentage of the demographic of gamers is comprised of females.

Well guess what? More females make up the college student demographic in the US. Does that mean that it's totally justifiable to give male college students fewer classes that they can sign up for? To give them a less diverse educational experience and fewer opportunities, because they make up a smaller percentage? Even though they pay the same for their education as anyone else? Think about that. And have fun trying to justify it.

Let's see.
The guys get:
Liara
Tali
Ashley
Miranda
Jack
Cortez

The girls get
Liara
Thane
Kaiden
Garrus
Traynor
but have more gay romaces then straight. because of Liara.

You guy have less straight  romances.... The only problem would be if you don't like the options in Hand.

ME2 Femshep hetero romances were very badly done in ME3 with the exception of Garrus. So scratch Thane and Jacob off the list. Thane won't even get you the paramour acheivement and the reunion in ME3 was as warm as a rectal exam performed by a doctor with cold fingers/ Jacob cheats and leaves Shep for another chick he knocked up. How does that stack up to how the male hetero romances were treated? You have 2 female hetero romances pulled out from under your feet right there. So that leaves: Liara, Kaiden (forced), Garrus and Traynor.

[Wynne]

And Garrus isn't an option unless you already romanced him, so it's entirely possible that you only have Liara, Kaidan, and Traynor available. That was the case for me after Thane.

Modifié par Wynne, 14 mars 2012 - 11:07 .

[jack of tears]

Mara281 wrote...
And that makes it right? So people should simply sell out their values for a bit of extra cash? Female gamers should just roll over and take it?

Who the hell said that?  My point was that we shouldn't be assuming the fault lies entirely with BW - who are typically better at this sort of thing.  Maybe lay off the knee jerk desire to get offended here; we're on the same side, if you hadn't noticed. 

[Mara281]

jack of tears wrote...

Mara281 wrote...
And that makes it right? So people should simply sell out their values for a bit of extra cash? Female gamers should just roll over and take it?

Who the hell said that?  My point was that we shouldn't be assuming the fault lies entirely with BW - who are typically better at this sort of thing.  Maybe lay off the knee jerk desire to get offended here; we're on the same side, if you hadn't noticed. 

Sorry if that's not what you meant. But so far all your posts appear to be arguing the fact that all is well and femshep players don't have any reason to complain about this. Ruffles my feathers... if you know what I mean

[jack of tears]

Spiffy McBang wrote...

Let's see.
The guys get:
Liara
Tali
Ashley
Miranda
Jack
Cortez

FemShep has zero potential male partners due to the availability of Kaidan and Garrus being dependent on choices from previous games.

Actually, if you're going to use that logic: Tali, Ashley, Miranda, and Jack could be dead - leaving guys with Kaiden, Cortez and Liara.  Which means he only has one female option.  Yes, you're still getting the short straw, but be careful when you start adding too many qualifiers to your list. 

[jack of tears]

Mara281 wrote...
Sorry if that's not what you meant. But so far all your posts appear to be arguing the fact that all is well and femshep players don't have any reason to complain about this. Ruffles my feathers... if you know what I mean

Maybe you should look back at my posts.  My posts have all, (aside from the one I just posted, mind you) been about how FemShep has crap for s/s romances which is very near and dear to my heart - being as I only recognize FemShep as my Shep and my Shep is a lesbian. (and has a terrible crush on Tali - poor woman) 

(I go on to complain - in my first post, I believe, that this represents lesbian women in a poor light) 

Modifié par jack of tears, 14 mars 2012 - 11:16 .

[jack of tears]

Mara281 wrote...
 Ruffles my feathers... if you know what I mean

But yes, I can understand this ... as part of the LGBT community I can understand the frustration of feeling overlooked and underappreciated. (and not taken seriously)

[BatmanPWNS]

jack of tears wrote...

Spiffy McBang wrote...

Let's see.
The guys get:
Liara
Tali
Ashley
Miranda
Jack
Cortez

FemShep has zero potential male partners due to the availability of Kaidan and Garrus being dependent on choices from previous games.

Actually, if you're going to use that logic: Tali, Ashley, Miranda, and Jack could be dead - leaving guys with Kaiden, Cortez and Liara.  Which means he only has one female option.  Yes, you're still getting the short straw, but be careful when you start adding too many qualifiers to your list. 

You forgot Diana.

[jack of tears]

BatmanPWNS wrote...
You forgot Diana.

You're right, I keep forgetting her ... she was very forgettable.  Still, she was there - technically. ;] 

[mnomaha]

Can't agree enough. My FemShep is just pissed. And celibate at this point.

[Shortstuff820]

<-----This guy will support this thread. I generally play as female characters in RPGs (especially since FemShep has such an awesome voice actor) and have 4 FemSheps out of my 5 total Shepards. I'm all for the gay/lesbian romance thing, but this oversight in lack of straight romance options is ridiculous. I'm glad I have one who romanced Liara and one who romanced Garrus. I suppose I can have one more gay FemShep and have the other one mourn Thane. But I think it's unfair and discriminating to the female players of Mass Effect that they get 2 or no straight romance options.

[Mara281]

jack of tears wrote...

Mara281 wrote...
Sorry if that's not what you meant. But so far all your posts appear to be arguing the fact that all is well and femshep players don't have any reason to complain about this. Ruffles my feathers... if you know what I mean

Maybe you should look back at my posts.  My posts have all, (aside from the one I just posted, mind you) been about how FemShep has crap for s/s romances which is very near and dear to my heart - being as I only recognize FemShep as my Shep and my Shep is a lesbian. (and has a terrible crush on Tali - poor woman) 

(I go on to complain - in my first post, I believe, that this represents lesbian women in a poor light) 

 
Sorry, yeah I did just check which posts were yours again. Got your last one mixed up with what another poster had been saying and I mistakenly thought it was them again. Just icing on a bad cake in that context! Thanks

I'll just go... smooth down my feathers for a while

[Zeeha]

@Mara281
Thank you for opening this thread and the well written intro! Though I think the title is a bit misleading - this is not just about a number of possible LIs. I am a female player and I am a great fan of BW for bringing more equality into their games including the respect for diversity. It felt good to become a part of the worlds they created and follow their incredible stories. My FemShep fell for Thane and she welcomed dying at the end - though it left a very sad and lonely feeling. I can accept that for this game and it was an unique and intense experience. But getting more halfnaked, willing girls presented at every corner will surely drive me off. Please, BW, don't go that route! Keep the quality of the stories high!

[Sylvianus]

Before the release there were already informations that Femshep wouldn't have options if Kaidan was dead. I didn't see many people concerned at that time. Too bad.

I also said several times that Vega wouldn't be an option, nobody listened.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 14 mars 2012 - 11:46 .

[jack of tears]

Mara281 wrote...
I'm not sure about that.  

You know, I think you're right.  I think it just felt like we had a lot of them because we had pretty much none before.  That said, the only reason we saw any more in this game is still pretty much because the fans made such an issue of it ... so I guess even a little progress is some progress.  

I can understand why we don't see more female aliens - from the point of resource limitations ... they can only afford to draw so many models.  But it would have been nice if they'd had a few of the voice actors double up to toss out a couple lines of dialogue for female aliens as well - even if those aliens had been entirely in armor.  

[jack of tears]

Sylvianus wrote...
Before the release there were already informations that Femshep wouldn't have options if Kaidan was dead. I didn't see many people concerned at that time. Too bad.

Two issues with that.  First, a lot of stuff was leaked that wasn't confirmed or denied and, Two, I suspect quite a few people were trying to avoid spoilers like I have been for the last 4 months. 

[AVPen]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

You forgot Diana.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

(I think the majority of us would choose to forget about her, given how damn poor the character is)

Modifié par AVPen, 15 mars 2012 - 12:03 .

[Alknost]

Zeeha wrote...

@Mara281
Thank you for opening this thread and the well written intro! Though I think the title is a bit misleading - this is not just about a number of possible LIs. I am a female player and I am a great fan of BW for bringing more equality into their games including the respect for diversity. It felt good to become a part of the worlds they created and follow their incredible stories. My FemShep fell for Thane and she welcomed dying at the end - though it left a very sad and lonely feeling. I can accept that for this game and it was an unique and intense experience. But getting more halfnaked, willing girls presented at every corner will surely drive me off. Please, BW, don't go that route! Keep the quality of the stories high!

If I had a nickel for every time I had boobs shoved in my face while playing a video game. It actually makes me want to puke, I find women to be disgustingly unattractive and it has always tainted my experience with video games in general which presume the player behind the wheel is a dude.

It wasn't until ME2 came out that I felt a game production company finally gave a crap about making content for all genders and orientations equal, until they screwed the romances up in ME3 and revealed otherwise. I had seen some half-hearted attempts in the Fallout games, but nothing worthwhile. So I was excited to *finally* see a glimmer of home in Mass Effect, but now, I'm so disappointed.

I years ago I was playing Duke Nukem on my friends computer in college. There was a scene where you could tip the strippers in the room and they's shake their boobs in your face while Duke said "Shake it, baby!". I wrinkled my nose at the scene while my friend chirped "Isn't that cool!" I replied in the negative, and he looked at me like I was some sort of lunatic. So I elaborated for him, I asked: If you had a game where you were only given male strippers who would flap their junk in your face, ballsack and all, would you be happy? He recoiled in horror and disgust, and that's when I said "THERE!!! THAT"S HOW *I* F-ING FEEL WHEN SOMEONE JIGGLES BOOBIES IN MY FACE!!!"

So if you're going to have sexual content "for all", just make sure it's done equally for all groups, not good for some and half-arsed for others.

[Vovea]

jack of tears wrote...

Traynor's romance isn't remotely as deep as Cortezs'; which again only leaves the s/s women with Liara as a real option unless you're going for something shallow. I admit women got it better in the s/s arena than men in this series, but that doesn't mean we're swimming in gold. (Liara is great, but she's our only decent option; while we've got Thane, Kaiden, Garrus, and Jacob as hetero options otherwise ... though, admittedly Jacob is a bit of a potato)

I felt that Traynor was a really cool character but her romance was designed for guys who like playing girls getting with girls. There's nothing wrong with that, but I thought that was what Allers' fling was for.