218 réponses à ce sujet

[Spiffy McBang]

jack of tears wrote...

Spiffy McBang wrote...

Let's see.
The guys get:
Liara
Tali
Ashley
Miranda
Jack
Cortez

FemShep has zero potential male partners due to the availability of Kaidan and Garrus being dependent on choices from previous games.

Actually, if you're going to use that logic: Tali, Ashley, Miranda, and Jack could be dead - leaving guys with Kaiden, Cortez and Liara.  Which means he only has one female option.  Yes, you're still getting the short straw, but be careful when you start adding too many qualifiers to your list. 

Not the same.  Not really even close.  Sure, all four of them could be dead, just like Garrus could be as well, but that's all dependent on how smart you were preparing for the final battle in ME2.  Most people would have kept most or all of them alive, and if they didn't there's an excellent chance they would have replayed the final battle so as not to lose so many squad members.  So the circumstance of most or all of them being dead is one that is unlikely to apply to more than a tiny minority, and- much more importantly- is in no way inevitable.  Your decisions are all that matter in that respect, and if your decisions went wonky you can fix them with a couple of hours play.

For every single person playing this, Kaidan has a 50/50 chance of being dead.  Then you have to choose a LI for ME2- if you want one, that is- and there are six different possibilities, which makes the odds of Garrus being your guy much lower than 50%.  These are things that have nothing to do with your ability as a player.  And those are the only two male options for FemShep.  There are no new ones, whereas you at least get Diana (sorry as that one may be) in 3 as a new hetero romance for ManShep.

Just... not the same.

Modifié par Spiffy McBang, 15 mars 2012 - 12:23 .

[Primalrose]

Dissappointed me big time James Vega wasn't a romance option!

[SilentK]

Alknost wrote...

SilentK wrote...

Don't tell them not to play.

Nope, I am still going to tell them what I think. Money is better spent elsewhere. BW really messed up in ME3 what they were starting to do right in ME2 for hetero female gamers, a huge step back. Had I known how badly they were going to screw up so many of the Femshep romances I would have cancelled my pre-order. I have absolutely zero incentive to play. Bioware just lost another Femshep.

If I managed to get any of my girlfriends to actually play a game I love I would be jumping around the apartement right now with joy.

Hey, if you love the game, good for you. Keep on enjoying it. But I refuse to recommend a product to others that has let me down.

The romance-arc for Kaidan is wonderful,

 I don't agree it was a good romance because the writers did a lot to steer people into that choice.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you like Kaidan, but the Kaidan romance is a forced one as I saw it. Especially if you romanced an ME2 character, the dialog tries to force you back to Kaidan by omitting choices that favor your ME2 romance. Not cool.

as is Liara

That presumes that I want to play a lesbian femshep. Sure, Liara is a good option if you don't play a straight femshep, but again, this presumes that all female gamers are lebsians and want lesbian options to be happy. I can only speak for myself as a straight female player. I do not mind lesbian relationship options as long as there are COMPERABLE straight relationship options for the femshep with what is offered to male-shep. ME3 did not deliver this. Maleshep had many more staight options than the femshep did, and half of the femshep options were very badly written so there was no closure or fulfillment.

and Garrus.

Yes, Garrus was- in my opinion- the only straight femshep romance option that was a GOOD one in all respects. But that's incongruous compared to what is offered to the hetero male shep.

There is love to be had for FemShep.

If you're willing to settle for much less than what the hetro male shep got.

I see this as trying to make sure that if Bioware start, well, sending LI:s out of the game they should take a look at how it affects both BroShep and FemShep. But I would never tell anyone to stop playing.

I'm not telling them to stop playing as they don't own the game yet, I'd be disuading them from buying ME3 in the first place since I was sorely disappointed. Bioware may have made some strides towards appealing to a female audience with ME2, but they took a big step backward in ME3 with the treatment of the romances and lack of options compared to the male counterparts.

I will really miss not continuing with Jacob, whom I adored. But I would not skip the game. Kaidan, Garrus and Liara would miss their FemSheps. Well, for Garrus there will be future FemSheps. Have to go back to ME2 for him.

Jacobmancers and Thanemancers got horribly screwed and there weren't any additional LIs for femshep that weren't female. Pity, Vega's flirting was cute, it would be nice if it went somewhere.

If anything we want more FemSheps    =)  

More femsheps is something Bioware has to earn. I am not going to promote their product to my female gamer friends, when they clearly design the LIs to favor the straight male gamer while they take away options from the Femshep. If they're claiming to want to appeal to female gamers, they need to walk their talk.

*eek*
You get the longest posts in the world whey you divide them like that. Oki. Hmm... and more difficult to follow but that's just my opinion. Ok, I'll just keep this in one paragraph so it doesn't turn into a christmas tree.

I would still tell people to play FemShep, but if this is a new trend then I'm getting really angry. FemShep is a wonderful character so it is well worth it to see her, but they are really limiting her options in this game and I'm hoping that it is a mistake on their part. I am really with you on the Jacobmancers and Thanemancers got screwed. This will mean fewer PT:s for me. And if it indeed is a trend, fewer games but I hope that this will be the last time they do something this stupid. One new male LI would have helped the situation a lot which makes it twice as irritating when Vega only teases. I see where you come from, but I would not want to miss out on FemShep. But I have zero interest in importing my Jacobmancers and will never ever start one for Thane. So yes, I am sad about it.

[jack of tears]

Spiffy McBang wrote...
Just... not the same.

Well, I let four of my crew die in ME2 because I didn't like the idea of a suicide mission where nobody died ... it lacked emotional impact.  But that isn't the discussion, so we won't get into that. 

And, yeah, women got the short end of the straw here - no doubt about it.  Could I handle playing a manShep I'd be all over Tali in a heartbeat.  I don't think anyone can really argue that women didn't get cheated; now it's just a matter of demonstrating how bad.  (but since my only dog in this fight is seriously the s/s issue, I have to bow out of the argument beyond that.) 

Modifié par jack of tears, 15 mars 2012 - 12:34 .

[SilentK]

The situation for a new player in ME3:

"ME3, when BroShep get's more guys than FemShep"

I really don't know what they were thinking but it is so obvious when you lay it all out. Thane and Jacob has no continuation what so ever, Jack and Miranda have less than Tali and Garrus but at least they have something. BroShep for Jack and Miranda get's a continuation of the romance. FemShep for Jacob and Thane get's a cheater and one early death scene without closure.

I prefer to romance guys, that's just two LI:s.... Liara is wonderful and Traynor is really cute. But it isn't really the same.

Modifié par SilentK, 15 mars 2012 - 12:39 .

[mnomaha]

Maybe I should add FemShep to the facebook page?

I'd saw she got screwed, but that's not necessarily true, is it?

[mnomaha]

And I would totally make a FemShep for Vega.

[Alknost]

SilentK wrote...

*eek*
You get the longest posts in the world whey you divide them like that. Oki. Hmm... and more difficult to follow but that's just my opinion. Ok, I'll just keep this in one paragraph so it doesn't turn into a christmas tree.

I would still tell people to play FemShep, but if this is a new trend then I'm getting really angry. FemShep is a wonderful character so it is well worth it to see her, but they are really limiting her options in this game and I'm hoping that it is a mistake on their part. I am really with you on the Jacobmancers and Thanemancers got screwed. This will mean fewer PT:s for me. And if it indeed is a trend, fewer games but I hope that this will be the last time they do something this stupid. One new male LI would have helped the situation a lot which makes it twice as irritating when Vega only teases. I see where you come from, but I would not want to miss out on FemShep. But I have zero interest in importing my Jacobmancers and will never ever start one for Thane. So yes, I am sad about it.

Sorry about the long quotes, you're right it was tough to read. I guess I'm just a bit more pessimistic than some on the topic even though we do see eye-to eye about a lot of things. I get you where you want to encorage more female gamers to play Mass Effect. Having more girl gamers here to represent would be a good thing, but I also think that recommending ME to them is a double edge sword- they'd be supporting a product that- in the end- did a crummy job on the content for Femshep while favoring other groups. Girl gamers deserve better, and while ME did put some effort into things, it looks like that effort vanished with ME3, and anyone female gamer playing straight will have a lot of wasted time in the romances once they've finished a ME1 & ME2 playthrough. Because of that I can't recommend the product to any gal hoping to get a fair shake in the adult content area.

[Yuqi]

Sigh, the most likely reason bioware did the femshep thing is because; their is a mostly untapped market in Video Games for females. (Nintendo realised this early on in the Pokemon series; which is why Pokemon Crystal came out.)

The 'straight' options for femshep suck, so what? At least you have the options in the first place.

Modifié par Yuqi, 15 mars 2012 - 12:52 .

[mnomaha]

Yuqi wrote...

Sigh, the most likely reason bioware did the femshep thing is because; their is a mostly untapped market in Video Games for females. (Nintendo realised this early on in the Pokemon series; which is why Pokemon Crystal came out.)

The 'straight' options for femshep suck, so what? At least you have the options in the first place.

I had to laugh. Sorry! But with Thane as the LI for most of my FemSheps, well, this rang true for ME3.

I'm gonna add FemShep to the website.

[mnomaha]

double post?

Modifié par mnomaha, 15 mars 2012 - 12:55 .

[SilentK]

Alknost wrote...
Sorry about the long quotes, you're right it was tough to read. I guess I'm just a bit more pessimistic than some on the topic even though we do see eye-to eye about a lot of things. I get you where you want to encorage more female gamers to play Mass Effect. Having more girl gamers here to represent would be a good thing, but I also think that recommending ME to them is a double edge sword- they'd be supporting a product that- in the end- did a crummy job on the content for Femshep while favoring other groups. Girl gamers deserve better, and while ME did put some effort into things, it looks like that effort vanished with ME3, and anyone female gamer playing straight will have a lot of wasted time in the romances once they've finished a ME1 & ME2 playthrough. Because of that I can't recommend the product to any gal hoping to get a fair shake in the adult content area.

Well no, I would never recommend a friend to go and romance Thane given the outcome, or Jacob. If any of my girlfriends indeed tried out the game I would try to steer them towards someone that actually has continuation in ME3. So jupp, I guess that's one reason not to recommend it. *sigh* why did it have to become so complicated, they wrote, got VA:s and animated these characters that felt so very very real. And then they killed them. So jupp, I'll get my dose of Kaidan and I will have to replay ME2 for Garrus. I always romance Liara but after that I guess I will continue my Sith Inquisitor in SWTOR, Blum is the VA for her LI. I'm still hoping that Vega by magic or something will turn LI with a dlc or something   =)    yes, I'm silly

[frostajulie]

Lets face it Bioware is dead, they messed up the endings, failed to screw Femshep (there's a dirty joke in there somewhere but I didn't quite nail it) and I was unaware Vega didn't "commit" I thought I had done something wrong. He was the main reason I did a ME3 only playthru so my Femshep could romance him.

If they don't do something about the endings I guess I'm done. It was a good run. They put out some good games but it is very obvious now they don't care about their products or their fans so they should not be getting any more of this fans money.

[Yuqi]

mnomaha wrote...

Yuqi wrote...

Sigh, the most likely reason bioware did the femshep thing is because; their is a mostly untapped market in Video Games for females. (Nintendo realised this early on in the Pokemon series; which is why Pokemon Crystal came out.)

The 'straight' options for femshep suck, so what? At least you have the options in the first place.

I had to laugh. Sorry! But with Thane as the LI for most of my FemSheps, well, this rang true for ME3.

I'm gonna add FemShep to the website.

Thane had one of the best romances IMO, well, considering the endings  at least.

[Alknost]

Yuqi wrote...

Sigh, the most likely reason bioware did the femshep thing is because; their is a mostly untapped market in Video Games for females. (Nintendo realised this early on in the Pokemon series; which is why Pokemon Crystal came out.)

The 'straight' options for femshep suck, so what? At least you have the options in the first place.

Straight options suck despite the reassurance of BW that such content would have been treated equally, not favoring any one group over another. We're paying customers, and BW didn't deliver on the claim. That's "what".

[Alknost]

Yuqi wrote...

mnomaha wrote...

Yuqi wrote...

Sigh, the most likely reason bioware did the femshep thing is because; their is a mostly untapped market in Video Games for females. (Nintendo realised this early on in the Pokemon series; which is why Pokemon Crystal came out.)

The 'straight' options for femshep suck, so what? At least you have the options in the first place.

I had to laugh. Sorry! But with Thane as the LI for most of my FemSheps, well, this rang true for ME3.

I'm gonna add FemShep to the website.

Thane had one of the best romances IMO, well, considering the endings  at least.

How is it one of the best romances compared to the others out there? You don't get a proper love scene, you don't get much different dialog if you romanced him, and there is no reward for being loyal to him (no LI in me1), no paramour achievement for reuniting with him, no emotional reaction to him being disembowled by Kai Leng, and no opportunity for your Femshep to confess her feelings prior to his death, or bring any sort of closure to the romance.

The only saving grace was that it was slighly better than Jacob's romance.

Modifié par Alknost, 15 mars 2012 - 01:05 .

[kaidanluv]

All I wanted was a top-notch romance with Kaidan, and I got it and then some. It was excellently handled and everything I could have hoped for. So, nope, not disappointed at all with what they did for FemShep's love life there.

I will say, however, that I definitely would've done a separate playthrough to romance James in ME3 had that been possible, and I do believe that that was a glaringly obvious missed opportunity there for Bioware to provide us girls who want a straight Shep with an alternative option.

As for Garrus, I can never see him as a LI, since my FemShep was always best buddies with him, nothing more. And Jacob...I was tempted by Jacob in ME2, I'll admit. But I'm glad I stuck to my guns, 'cause boy did his allure as a LI fizzle out in ME3 lol. Still, I commend Bioware for doing something realistic in that regard - not just pretending like everyone will wait for Shep, no questions asked, and not move on with their own lives in the meantime.

And Thane? Meh. Unattractive to me.

Modifié par kaidanluv, 15 mars 2012 - 01:24 .

[sedrikhcain]

Given this reaction from femshep gamers and previous outbursts from gamers who want s/s options, I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if BioWare said to heck with romances altogether for its next game. I don't have sympathy for BioWare about much but they really can't win with this. No matter what they do, it is interpreted as a slight. People painstakingly tally up stats about face time on screen, number of options, how much paramour skin goes on camera, etc. My own background gives me plenty of experience with being the group that's not in the majority or dominant but at some point you begin to cut off your nose to spite your face. "Equality" in something like relationship options doesn't mean tallying up equal face time and the same number of romances. Heck, BioWare did that in the previous game and all we heard was "femshep's too flirty with Jacob" (don't get me started on why that had to be such a problem).

Anyway, I just don't think this is productive and it doesn't make us as gamers look good either.

Signed: male ME3 player with quite a few more femsheps than himsheps -- and all of my ladies have had romances.

Edited (again) to add: BioWare is also now getting backlash from straight, male gamers over "unavoidable" s/s advances. How stupid does that make straight men look?

Modifié par sedrikhcain, 15 mars 2012 - 01:24 .

[mnomaha]

All I wanted was a top-notch romance, with a male, that was NOT Kaidan. I had it in ME2, with Thane, who they callously wrote off.

So tell me, what other male was available. And yes, I know there was Garrus, he has a FemShep. I meant any other options.

Sorry, but this girl likes man meat. It would have be nice to have the option for it.

[SilentK]

sedrikhcain wrote...

Given this reaction from femshep gamers and previous outbursts from gamers who want s/s options, I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if BioWare said to heck with romances altogether for its next game. I don't have sympathy for BioWare about much but they really can't win with this. No matter what they do, it is interpreted as a slight. People painstakingly tally up stats about face time on screen, number of options, how much paramour skin goes on camera, etc. My own background gives me plenty of experience with being the group that's not in the majority or dominant but at some point you begin to cut off your nose to spite your face. "Equality" in something like relationship options doesn't mean tallying up equal face time and the same number of romances. Heck, BioWare did that in the previous game and all we heard was "femshep's too flirty with Jacob" (don't get me started on why that had to be such a problem).

Anyway, I just don't think this is productive and it doesn't make us as gamers look good either.

Signed: male ME3 player with quite a few more femsheps than himsheps -- and all of my ladies have had romances.

I don't think that BioWare will stop writing romances, or companions. They write them so well and it is part of the whole experience in one of their games. I love them for it. But I also want them to know that sadly, this time things combined gives FemShep a very different game from BroShep. But I do know that mistakes happen in big projects sometimes. I love FemShep and will happily play my PT:s. I don't think they planned that FemShep would get such a different experience. Little differences isn't a problem. But this time it isn't little.

[Alknost]

sedrikhcain wrote...

Given this reaction from femshep gamers and previous outbursts from gamers who want s/s options, I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if BioWare said to heck with romances altogether for its next game. I don't have sympathy for BioWare about much but they really can't win with this. No matter what they do, it is interpreted as a slight. People painstakingly tally up stats about face time on screen, number of options, how much paramour skin goes on camera, etc. My own background gives me plenty of experience with being the group that's not in the majority or dominant but at some point you begin to cut off your nose to spite your face. "Equality" in something like relationship options doesn't mean tallying up equal face time and the same number of romances. Heck, BioWare did that in the previous game and all we heard was "femshep's too flirty with Jacob" (don't get me started on why that had to be such a problem).

Anyway, I just don't think this is productive and it doesn't make us as gamers look good either.

Signed: male ME3 player with quite a few more femsheps than himsheps -- and all of my ladies have had romances.

Edited (again) to add: BioWare is also now getting backlash from straight, male gamers over "unavoidable" s/s advances. How stupid does that make straight men look?

I thought they did a very good job in ME2 with the romances, I'm pissed that they backslid in ME3 for my demographic and took a big step back from making progress. I see what you mean that it seems like BW can't win, that you can't make everyone happy all of the time. But it is a different story when you've had options taken away from you that you once had because the developers/writers used to care enough to provide them for you, but no longer seem to in the lastest game release. It begs the question on what the heck happened.

Modifié par Alknost, 15 mars 2012 - 01:33 .

[kaidanluv]

Like I said, they missed the boat there with James. But I really can't complain about anything else, and I don't see this as purposefully undermining anything in regards to FemShep.

Modifié par kaidanluv, 15 mars 2012 - 01:34 .

[sedrikhcain]

Ladies, I understand the frustration. Like i said, my demographic gets overlooked for plenty -- including in mass effect. I'm just saying that it's been my experience that you reach a point of diminishing returns with the quantity and quality of the complaints. And I think perhaps this line of inquiry about femshep's romance options in 3 has crossed that line. I could be wrong, of course.

[Spiffy McBang]

sedrikhcain wrote...

Ladies, I understand the frustration. Like i said, my demographic gets overlooked for plenty -- including in mass effect. I'm just saying that it's been my experience that you reach a point of diminishing returns with the quantity and quality of the complaints. And I think perhaps this line of inquiry about femshep's romance options in 3 has crossed that line. I could be wrong, of course.

There will always be complaints.  Bioware knows this.  But tiny complaints are going to attract a tiny number of complainers, and major complaints should attract a much larger number of complainers.  What's going on here is a Big Deal, as far as these things go.  Yes, gay male Shepards have the fewest options throughout the series, but on the other hand, progress is afoot.  Zero to zero to two may not seem like much, but it's a step forward, as is the addition of 100% gay NPCs as opposed to the myriad of bisexuals in ME and especially DA.  As long as you get a couple of choices and those choices are treated with dignity, even if you don't think that's enough, it's still an improvement.

This is a literal step backwards.  That's why, even agreeing with the basic idea that you can complain too much about too many things and neutralize your own voice in the process, if we're going to gripe about any facet of FemShep's treatment this is the one to speak up about.  The fact it's a step back, plus just how obvious that step back is, means Bioware needs to be told that the expectations they've set up for themselves have not been met and they're going to lose some very loyal customers if those expectations are not met in the future.

[QueenMirage]

kaidanluv wrote...

All I wanted was a top-notch romance with Kaidan, and I got it and then some. It was excellently handled and everything I could have hoped for. So, nope, not disappointed at all with what they did for FemShep's love life there.

I will say, however, that I definitely would've done a separate playthrough to romance James in ME3 had that been possible, and I do believe that that was a glaringly obvious missed opportunity there for Bioware to provide us girls who want a straight Shep with an alternative option.

I agree with both statements. Kaidan was always my number 1 LI, and I was very satisified with how that romance played out in ME3. Always have a huge smile on my face when I interact with Him, I couldn't have asked for anything better:wub: And yes, I think not making James Vega a love interest was a BIG miss on biowares part. For the first time, I actually wanted to romance someone other than Kaidan. I think he would have been a great option for all the other straight fem sheps. As for Garrus, I too only thought of him only as a good friend, not a LI for my Female Shep. Honestly Ive never really had a problem with ME love interests, or lack there of. Kaidan is always my one and only, but I had I not been satisfied with Kaidan then i might be singing a different tune. I do see the problem though  

Modifié par QueenMirage, 15 mars 2012 - 02:07 .