218 réponses à ce sujet

[mnomaha]

Well, I'm in mourning over Thane dammit, and I wanted a nice strong Latin shoulder to cry on.

[JSLfromBx]

So some dumb breeder goes and get Kaidan killed in ME1 and when it comes back to bite them in the ass two games later they whine and complain and tries to play victim?
Looooooolll now this is priceless, this is the kind of thing that makes you wander just how low can the females sink.

Anyway, good ridance I say, the very idea of a straight femshep is an insult, the less of them the better.

Modifié par JSLfromBx, 15 mars 2012 - 02:29 .

[jack of tears]

JSLfromBx wrote...

So some dumb breeder .... 

You know what?  We made it this far into the thread without any hate speech, I'd like to continue following that example.  Your post has been reported and as a member of the LGBT community I would like to add that I find it offensive that you felt oblidged to post this venom here at all.  I think you owe these people an apology. 

[mnomaha]

Okay my lovely FemSheps...if you had a favourite FemShep pic, which one would it be?

[PsyrenY]

I do feel some solidarity with you guys over Jacob. That had to suck.
Speaking of which - what happened to the Jacob LI thread?

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

FemShep has Garrus.

Argument of this thread is invalid.

Honestly, I have to agree with this point. I'd trade every single maleshep LI to tap some Turian Tail. FemShep is doing fine from where I'm sitting.

[recentio]

JSLfromBx wrote...

So some dumb breeder goes and get Kaidan killed in ME1 and when it comes back to bite them in the ass two games later they whine and complain and tries to play victim?
Looooooolll now this is priceless, this is the kind of thing that makes you wander just how low can the females sink.

Anyway, good ridance I say, the very idea of a straight femshep is an insult, the less of them the better.

Bashing straight people is every bit as unseemly as bashing gay people. signed: another LGBT person

Straight FemShep should absolutely be supported, IMO. Though, I also think she is reasonably supported. FemShep/Garrus is quite possibly the best written romance in the game. And Kaiden is available to a non-imported Shep in ME3. I just kind of don't understand letting him die on Virmire if he's the one you want to romance...

[mnomaha]

Okay, I've included this on the facebook page. The link is in my signature.

[Spiffy McBang]

recentio wrote...
Bashing straight people is every bit as unseemly as bashing gay people. signed: another LGBT person

Straight FemShep should absolutely be supported, IMO. Though, I also think she is reasonably supported. FemShep/Garrus is quite possibly the best written romance in the game. And Kaiden is available to a non-imported Shep in ME3. I just kind of don't understand letting him die on Virmire if he's the one you want to romance...

Trolls be trollin'.

If you want to romance Kaidan, you don't let him die, obviously.  But in this situation, I can see an awful lot of people who would say, "Well, he's not my Shep's first choice, but he's the only guy I can have, so...."  And in a lot of those cases, they'd have let him die because he didn't interest them initially.  That's where the lack of options sinks its teeth in.

My favorite FemShep is mine, so my favorite pic is my forum avatar.  >_>  I don't know if that's an actual picture of my ME2 Shep, but it's so close I've always thought it was.

[SilentK]

Spiffy McBang wrote...
Trolls be trollin'.

If you want to romance Kaidan, you don't let him die, obviously.  But in this situation, I can see an awful lot of people who would say, "Well, he's not my Shep's first choice, but he's the only guy I can have, so...."  And in a lot of those cases, they'd have let him die because he didn't interest them initially.  That's where the lack of options sinks its teeth in.

My favorite FemShep is mine, so my favorite pic is my forum avatar.  >_>  I don't know if that's an actual picture of my ME2 Shep, but it's so close I've always thought it was.

When you come to Virmire there should be some kind of varning "Do you REALLY want to kill your only human male"? And if you if you left Kaidan on Virmire, this FemShep should get some varning when starting a romance with anyone else than Garrus in ME2, "Do you wish to proceed and never ever romance a male in ME3". I can do one or two Fem-Fem relationships, but it might get a little boring for someone who only roleplays their FemShep's to be straight.

Jupp   =)    best solution is to never ever let Kaidan of the ship. Or Garrus, let's just keep them safe. Hmm... I'm starting to feel very Krogan about my LI:s. "Keep the females safe". lol

[mnomaha]

SilentK wrote...

Spiffy McBang wrote...
Trolls be trollin'.

If you want to romance Kaidan, you don't let him die, obviously.  But in this situation, I can see an awful lot of people who would say, "Well, he's not my Shep's first choice, but he's the only guy I can have, so...."  And in a lot of those cases, they'd have let him die because he didn't interest them initially.  That's where the lack of options sinks its teeth in.

My favorite FemShep is mine, so my favorite pic is my forum avatar.  >_>  I don't know if that's an actual picture of my ME2 Shep, but it's so close I've always thought it was.

When you come to Virmire there should be some kind of varning "Do you REALLY want to kill your only human male"? And if you if you left Kaidan on Virmire, this FemShep should get some varning when starting a romance with anyone else than Garrus in ME2, "Do you wish to proceed and never ever romance a male in ME3". I can do one or two Fem-Fem relationships, but it might get a little boring for someone who only roleplays their FemShep's to be straight.

Jupp   =)    best solution is to never ever let Kaidan of the ship. Or Garrus, let's just keep them safe. Hmm... I'm starting to feel very Krogan about my LI:s. "Keep the females safe". lol

This. Really, truly this.

[Wittand25]

While I think that Fshep ending up with possibly no romance is a very questionable desgin decision, i am also surprised that people are surprised about the fact that FShep has fewer possible straight Lis then MShep.
In BG2 the ratio was three to one, KotoR had one of both , JE a male character had twice as many straight options (or three times if you count the three way), DA:O while beeing equal in the number of actual LIS offered Isabella in addition. The only game in which there are more LIs for a straight female character is DA2 and even then you have to buy the DLC.

So it is not really surprising that FShep ends up with less males to choose from since that has been the case in nearly all BioWare games in the past.
I would also like to mention that I find it strange that all the females seem to flirt with FShep for some posters here, since they are all behaving perfectly friendly towards my GayShep.

[foxlockbox]

I think its more question of time here, you need massive amount of dialogue for any crew member in ME then added LI options its very time and money consuming. I don't think its anything intentional that they didn't add more femshep straight LI options, I think they would have loved to have more options for female players. Its not implication of unequality, I find it asthonishing that you're bashing Bioware of all gaming companies, for not making linear male only character with some typical hollywood esque side romance plot. No they record countless of hours of dialogue for many, many character and there just time and money steps in. Biggest part of paying customers right now are male and they need to be appeased, but you still got your part of the pie and I think you're going to get more in future Bioware games.
They are not setting an example here, they're breaking the ice for a new mold of gaming and are going to continue improving on it. The more females find this game, the more they are gonna support their side of the story and options, it just takes time.

[Lianaar]

Sylvianus wrote...

Before the release there were already informations that Femshep wouldn't have options if Kaidan was dead. I didn't see many people concerned at that time. Too bad.

I also said several times that Vega wouldn't be an option, nobody listened.

Why on Earth would I complain about something that I don't even know about? 
I prefer acting on facts, facts that can not be questioned. So fact: straight options for female Shepards are lacking in comparision to any other options. This is sad and I beleive (this being an opinion and not a fact) not exactly financially supportable.

Many women buy video games, and many women from that group enjoys romances. So I guess many game buyer females would have enjoyed a bit more straight options.

[Ailith Tycane]

I just realized something...For once, as a bisexual female player who prefers s/s romances, I have the advantage as far as choice is concerned...

Excuse me, I know this sucks for the rest of you, but I need a moment. This is a beautiful day.

[Lianaar]

sedrikhcain wrote...

Given this reaction from femshep gamers and previous outbursts from gamers who want s/s options, I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if BioWare said to heck with romances altogether for its next game. I don't have sympathy for BioWare about much but they really can't win with this. No matter what they do, it is interpreted as a slight. People painstakingly tally up stats about face time on screen, number of options, how much paramour skin goes on camera, etc. My own background gives me plenty of experience with being the group that's not in the majority or dominant but at some point you begin to cut off your nose to spite your face. "Equality" in something like relationship options doesn't mean tallying up equal face time and the same number of romances. Heck, BioWare did that in the previous game and all we heard was "femshep's too flirty with Jacob" (don't get me started on why that had to be such a problem).

Anyway, I just don't think this is productive and it doesn't make us as gamers look good either.

Signed: male ME3 player with quite a few more femsheps than himsheps -- and all of my ladies have had romances.

Edited (again) to add: BioWare is also now getting backlash from straight, male gamers over "unavoidable" s/s advances. How stupid does that make straight men look?

I might misunderstand you, but what is your issue with this thread? We very politely and in a cultivated manner expressed displeasure in number and resource distribution. I believe expressing this opinion doesn't make us any less.

We do not mind s/s options and do not wish to take away fun from others. While I do not enjoy boobs pushed into my face, I can just turn away my head temporarily so others have their fun. I however am not compensated for this, so I feel. There is a half-finished (resourcewise) romance line, which would have been relatively easy to be finished, and it was not.

With all the forums, I would much prefer to read this styled complaints (even about endings) then what you get in most threads.

What could have been done that would have made my complaints invalid (according to my view)
- new male option
- make James an option
- make Garrus be romancable EVEN if he is not romanced in ME2

Any of the above would have been sufficient.
While I very much enjoy the idea of having consequences to your decision, such as Kaiden being dead once he died, or Garrus not having the time to fall in love with you now, only if he already had interest in you, I am not enjoying the idea of feeling punished for those decisions. Making a balanced game is not easy, but BW has jumped the line a few times, so I have trust in them. Next time, please consider how to appease straight females too. Thank you.

[Squeeze the Fish]

My two cents:

Thane romance: Yes, I knew he was going to die and I’m sorta’ glad BW didn’t try some last-minute miracle with him. I thought his death was touching and liked seeing him give ol Kai Leng the 1-2. However, I was most disappointed with Shepard’s/crew’s reaction to his death. It seemed as though as soon as Shep walked out of that room… everything was okay? None of her crew really mentioned it and we don’t see anything reactionary out of her (admittedly, I am NOT done with this play through, but I have played enough passed his death to think that the appropriate time for a grief scene has past.) I get it, Shep knew it was happening, and with the galaxy at stake, she doesn’t really have time to DWELL on his death…but saying that, I wish Shep wouldn’t have gone dancing with Jack right after her boyfriend died. (I know, just a coincidence on my play through, but I was yelling at the TV, “What are you doing, Shep???? Don’t you care Thane just DIED two mins ago???”)

But Garrus…oh Garrus. I won't start gushing about this one, as I may never stop. As others have said, I think BW knocked this one out of the park.

As for Jacob, I kind of get it. After ME2, there was so much backlash about that romance and how Shep turns into some creepy hussy every time she’s around him. I couldn’t bring myself to romance him BECAUSE of that. I thought, “Is this how BW thinks females act when they’ve got an attractive member of the crew?” Hell, it doesn’t matter if you find him attractive or not, apparently Shep is ready to drop her panties as soon as she walks through the armory door.

I’m trying to think of what BW had to work with. They brought back the two original LI’s from ME1 and threw Ash in there to boot. Thane was always terminally ill- that wasn’t going to change. Jacob was a less-popular romance (not saying he has NO fans, and not trying to hate on him at all) than the others and I think ME3 reflected that. I don’t think it was all that fair to those who romanced him in ME2, but I get that- after the backlash (which was not really about HIM, but about creep!Shep)- that is the direction they chose to go. And they DID listen to fan feedback about Garrus. They admitted they were surprised people wanted to romance him (and Tali) and while in ME2 I felt a bit cheated with his romance in comparison with others, I think BW did a very commendable job in making up for that in ME3- enought that I felt somewhat rewarded even.

Maybe the numbers in comparison to maleShep don’t line up and I can understand the frustration, but I can somewhat see why things played out the way they did. Also, consider that maleShep didn’t get a whole lot of quality time with some of his choices and how cheated the gamers who romanced Miranda or Jack must feel.

[sedrikhcain]

Lianaar wrote...

sedrikhcain wrote...

Given this reaction from femshep gamers and previous outbursts from gamers who want s/s options, I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if BioWare said to heck with romances altogether for its next game. I don't have sympathy for BioWare about much but they really can't win with this. No matter what they do, it is interpreted as a slight. People painstakingly tally up stats about face time on screen, number of options, how much paramour skin goes on camera, etc. My own background gives me plenty of experience with being the group that's not in the majority or dominant but at some point you begin to cut off your nose to spite your face. "Equality" in something like relationship options doesn't mean tallying up equal face time and the same number of romances. Heck, BioWare did that in the previous game and all we heard was "femshep's too flirty with Jacob" (don't get me started on why that had to be such a problem).

Anyway, I just don't think this is productive and it doesn't make us as gamers look good either.

Signed: male ME3 player with quite a few more femsheps than himsheps -- and all of my ladies have had romances.

Edited (again) to add: BioWare is also now getting backlash from straight, male gamers over "unavoidable" s/s advances. How stupid does that make straight men look?

I might misunderstand you, but what is your issue with this thread? We very politely and in a cultivated manner expressed displeasure in number and resource distribution. I believe expressing this opinion doesn't make us any less.

We do not mind s/s options and do not wish to take away fun from others. While I do not enjoy boobs pushed into my face, I can just turn away my head temporarily so others have their fun. I however am not compensated for this, so I feel. There is a half-finished (resourcewise) romance line, which would have been relatively easy to be finished, and it was not.

With all the forums, I would much prefer to read this styled complaints (even about endings) then what you get in most threads.

What could have been done that would have made my complaints invalid (according to my view)
- new male option
- make James an option
- make Garrus be romancable EVEN if he is not romanced in ME2

Any of the above would have been sufficient.
While I very much enjoy the idea of having consequences to your decision, such as Kaiden being dead once he died, or Garrus not having the time to fall in love with you now, only if he already had interest in you, I am not enjoying the idea of feeling punished for those decisions. Making a balanced game is not easy, but BW has jumped the line a few times, so I have trust in them. Next time, please consider how to appease straight females too. Thank you.

It probably goes too far to say I have a problem with it. I'm just think it's going to end up being perceived as just another part of the pile of criticism re: romances by BioWare.

[Wynne]

It just hit me that if you're a new FemShep player and you choose for Ashley to be alive... you have no straight options. None. Period.

[sakuragrrl]

First off you have to understand where some people are coming from like above stated, if you start new and choose ashley you have no LI at all. The ONLY way to get Garrus is if you previously romanced him in ME2. If Kaidan is dead there are no other options. I think that if BW had let you start a Garrusmance in ME3 there would be no problem. But they didn't think that way and it wound up upsetting alot of their female fanbase. Plus they completely character assassinated Jacob. The Thane dying thing I understand, you know he is dying from the first time you meet him, plus he died a hero. I mean I kept Kaidan and didn't have any issues and they really made his romance great too. But alot of people did not warm up to his character or Garrus in that way. They liked Jacob and Thane and wound up on the short end of the stick. BW should have seen their mistake. Not every player is gay and not every player is straight. They should have equally distributed the love all around, but they mostly catered to the male player anyway. It is what it is and there is no changing it. Hopefully BW will think about this in the future. Also in the last 2 games they kept it pretty equal, I mean they should have added a gay male LI before, but they were always stating that Maleshep was straight. Then they finally realized they wanted to change that. They can't make everyone happy, but I think they did treat their female fanbase with not as much care as they did their male fanbase. I understand this is not a dating sim, but the reason so many people love BW is for their characters and their relationships. It adds more to the story than just saying " Lets go blow things up and have absolutely nothing else to care about in our plot". The story, characters, and relationships are what make BW such a great company and it's just sad to see that they didn't take all of their fanbase into account with this game. 

Modifié par sakuragrrl, 15 mars 2012 - 05:03 .

[Vovea]

Wynne wrote...

It just hit me that if you're a new FemShep player and you choose for Ashley to be alive... you have no straight options. None. Period.

My friend thought that 'Ashley Williams' was a guy. Amusing gender neutrality misunderstandings led her to pick Ash at the start of the game. Her Shepard has joined the forever alone club.

[Mara281]

SilentK wrote...

Jupp   =)    best solution is to never ever let Kaidan of the ship. Or Garrus, let's just keep them safe. Hmm... I'm starting to feel very Krogan about my LI:s. "Keep the females safe". lol

LOL I'm right there with you  Keep the males safe!

I also think it's a great idea that we put what could have been done to make this more level as well.

-Thane - FemShep should have been able to have a date with Thane before he died as well as more dialogue options in the hospital while he was still alive. He also should've had more closure with his death. I haven't imported my ME2 file with his romance yet, but from what I hear, it was very poorly treated. I loved the scene when I initially played, but that's because I was romancing Kaidan at the time. It was such a good death. While I don't think everyone on the crew needs to be coddling her, at the very least Liara who is played out to be Shep's BFF in this game should have said something and offered consolation. Plus in the end when she has the flashbacks of the people that were important to her, Thane should be in there (as should any LI).

-Jacob - While some people say it's realistic that not everyone would stay for Shep, why does only Jacob do this? For one he doesn't seem like the unloyal type, and for two if he would leave FemShep, why wouldn't any of the girls leave manshep? Not only does that feel awful to be dumped in the first place, but what does that say about girls? That we're aren't worth waiting for but guys are? Players should've had the choice to try and woo him back from that other girl. I mean, he's having a baby with her in the 6 months you've been apart? Really? I just can't believe he'd move on that fast. and I didn't even romance the guy.

- Vega - Seriously, he's right there!! He's FLIRTING with us! Unashamed constant flirting (if you don't renegade I guess, I don't know since after I tried it once and he started calling me commander, I just felt bad and had to reload, lol) It's not that far of a jump to make him romancable. So why isn't he?

- Make Garrus romancable in ME3 without the ME2 condition. I find it strange that they did this in the first place since Garrus is a major romancable character. Why is this condition even in there? [edit: Is it there for Tali too? If it is, it should be taken out for both. The condition that they had to be romanced in the previous game just doesn't make sense, especially if your new to ME]

- I understand a lot of people like to wear a dress to the dates and such. That's great  I'm not a dress kind of girl, myself but I can understand a lot of other people are. But at least give FemShep a unique dress, not a copy from an NPC. Manshep got a great unique outfit, we should get a great unique dress.


If they even just gave us those three choices, keeping Thane and Jacob, and adding Vega - ME3 would have been much more equal in the romance department.  I just keep hoping they'll fix some of this in DLC, or at the very least steer clear from making the same mistake with DA3. DA was what got me into playing BW games in the first place. I'd hate to see the same thing happen there.

Modifié par Mara281, 15 mars 2012 - 06:22 .

[Phaedros]

Thing is these are deliberate design decisions.  Just as they were in SW:TOR, which is why I cancelled my sub.


And, let's face it, these things matter more to most girl gamers than guys right? 

[Agamo45]

Oh please, BW spent how much money making separate trailers, they even included a woman Shepard on the cover. So because female Shepard has 3 fewer romances, that means BW is sexist and misogynistic? Get a grip. Of all the things you could complain about, THIS is what you're focusing on? Should the developers have created 3 more LI's just to make it equal?

[Spiffy McBang]

Mara281 wrote...

- Vega - Seriously, he's right there!! He's FLIRTING with us! Unashamed constant flirting (if you don't renegade I guess, I don't know since after I tried it once and he started calling me commander, I just felt bad and had to reload, lol) It's not that far of a jump to make him romancable. So why isn't he?

 

I read somewhere that much of the lead-up to release was spent on the multiplayer part of the game, and that single player was pretty much done, but the more I read the less likely that seems (or maybe the less likely I hope it is).  The entire game feels like they wanted to finish ManShep's story and there actually was enough for FemShep to be more or less balanced, they just didn't get it all done in time.  That doesn't make it ok- in my mind that makes it worse- but the lack of follow-through on some of the more obvious ideas is completely counter to how BW normally handles their business.

There was an analogy made to Fallout 3's ending and how it was completely redone with the Brotherhood of Steel DLC.  I think that fits, except for the fact Bethesda's strength has always been in its sandbox gameplay and not its writing, so screwing that up looked like an actual screw-up, not carelessness.  I guess we'll see how they proceed.

Mara281 wrote... 

- Make Garrus romancable in ME3 without the ME2 condition. I find it strange that they did this in the first place since Garrus is a major romancable character. Why is this condition even in there? [edit: Is it there for Tali too? If it is, it should be taken out for both. The condition that they had to be romanced in the previous game just doesn't make sense, especially if your new to ME]

Gotta disagree with you on this one.  Much of the game is designed to cater to newer players; this is one way in which they give old-school ME gamers a taste of something all their own, which is nice.  It also gives those romances a more long-term feel, and if the general opinions on them are anything to go by, they're written with that idea in mind.  It would make no sense for them to be written as if your romance in ME3 was new when it's not, but it would also make no sense for them to behave as if it's a real LTR if you hadn't been with them in ME2.  The ways around that would be to either write them with a certain amount of vagueness, or make two different possible romance situations... and I think we'd agree that time would be better spent finishing Vega's LI scenario.  >_>

The ME wiki has updated the romance options to show nine for ManShep and seven for FemShep:

http://masseffect.wi...e#Mass_Effect_3 

Thane's is by all accounts so bad that maybe it shouldn't be included, but I've seen people say the same goes for Miranda and Jack, so, ok, fair is fair, throw them all in.  If you look at this list, then, I think what it shows is how much of this problem would be solved if they just added (finished) Vega as an LI.  He'd be the flip side to Ashley.  If you want to be as equal as possible, give Shepard a chance to win Jacob away from his new girlfriend (as I said before, a super-renegade thing to do, but there's not enough of those options IMO).  Then you have three carry-overs, a new straight squadmate LI, a new gay non-squadmate LI, a bi human of each gender, and Liara.

(Adding Kelly skews the numbers a little, but it's hard to get her on the Citadel in ME3 without planning for it (I didn't see her) and I doubt that would be a major source of concern anyway.  Even if there was an outcry, I don't think there's any real way around it- the presence of the asari already basically guarantees that you're going to have more bisexual female NPCs than male.)

So, see, it wouldn't take much to make things right.  Finish Vega and make Jacob's bit more interesting.  Boom, it's set.

[Spiffy McBang]

Agamo45 wrote...

Oh please, BW spent how much money making separate trailers, they even included a woman Shepard on the cover. So because female Shepard has 3 fewer romances, that means BW is sexist and misogynistic? Get a grip. Of all the things you could complain about, THIS is what you're focusing on? Should the developers have created 3 more LI's just to make it equal?

Trailers and covers are all well and good, but the game is the thing.  Bioware set up this expectation of equality for themselves with previous titles.  So, yes, they should have had enough LIs to balance the numbers.

There are other ways in which the game seems unequal, discussed earlier in the thread, but some of those would be difficult or impossible to change now.  This is a fixable problem, so the fact it's a point of focus should be no surprise.