218 réponses à ce sujet

[x0 Misfit 0x]

I couldn't plan my whole "Shepard blows up at Kaidan for Horizon, the half taunts him by moving on thing." I know I could go s/s, but my Shepard in the playthrough was heterosexual. I feel like if they payed more attention to the female demographic, they could create a larger one, but knowing that there's basically one romance for new straight females in ME3 is a bit of a downer, because Bioware normally does good romances. I also feel FemShep should have gotten a better "formal" outfit, I hated the dress, normally wore the Alliance blue-gold thing, or the hoodie.

[Calei]

I really didn't like having Kaidan being the only male (particularly the only human male) option for my non-import first run of the game. I just finished it last night and was left deflated by a few key factors, romance being a big part of it.

I don't really like Kaidan's character. I did enjoy the flirting with Vega and didn't understand why he couldn't be an option, and I also was pulling for a Joker relationship. With everything involved in the games, Joker and Garrus are the only two male companions Shepard has had throughout the whole deal. Would it not have been more meaningful to have either of these two as options (at all, for Joker) without having to have had a previous encounter in a prior game?

[GunMoth]

Augh. I was actually single through all 3 games. Waiting for that special someone who never made an appearance. I always just have headcanon romances in Bioware games unfortunately.

I liked Sten from DA: O, and now Javik from ME3.
Then I found out Troy Baker does the voice acting for Kai Leng.

Kai. Leng. The gross racist/xenophobic sociopath from the novels. Why would you do that Bioware? Such wasted voice actor potential.

/end creepy fanlady rant?
(This is seriously the most disgusting thing I've posted on these forums).

I made this as well. ;_;7

Modifié par GunMoth, 15 mars 2012 - 11:39 .

[Eromenos]

Agamo45 wrote...

Oh please, BW spent how much money making separate trailers, they even included a woman Shepard on the cover. So because female Shepard has 3 fewer romances, that means BW is sexist and misogynistic? Get a grip. Of all the things you could complain about, THIS is what you're focusing on? Should the developers have created 3 more LI's just to make it equal?

Read back what you just wrote. BioWare continued to mistreat the female presence as secondary with those trailers and posters.

The content you described doesn't have any merits to brag about. You'll recall the whole "voting" BS for the canon FemShep? Yeah, it was cooked up by men and catered for the majority of ME gamers who happen to be male. A tidy PR stunt. "Democracy." Predetermined. 5 out of 6 faces were identical, and at least 3 of the hairstyles were identical too. Not one of them looked to be past 24 years in age, when in fact Shepard ought to be closer to 34.

The answer to your last question is "Hell yes." It's BioWare's own fault for opening the door by stacking the numbers of ways a guy Shepard can get some T&A. It is not wrong for female gamers to want content that closely mirrors what the males already get to have. The solutions should be made specifically to appeal to women. Better even if they're made by women. It's a problem when people carry the attitude that female gamers should be "grateful" for a token FemShep when she is at times just an excuse for devs to get away with more T&A in ME. The trailers you mentioned were only so that ME can pretend to respect what women gamers actually want. Shepard herself is plagued by the male gaze influence in ME3 thanks to the leather dress. And while she remains (hugely)deprived of romantic choices in comparison to the male Shepard, female gamers are correct to call attention to BioWare's dismissiveness.

Modifié par Eromenos, 16 mars 2012 - 04:11 .

[mireisen]

I'm with the OP with most of her points. I'm bisexual but currently in a hetero relationship. My FemShep is straight. Mainly because Liara's advances were more of the "awe" type of attraction (I'm not into that) and that the ME2 romance she would've pursued (if gay) would've been Samara, but that was blocked out too.

I was annoyed but grateful for the lesbian options. Traynor is sweet but the whole shower scene just seemed...ugh. I felt super awkward...uncomfortable...

I remember the first time hearing Katy Perry's "I Kissed a Girl" and I was livid. I hate that some people "play up" to be bisexual when they're doing it for attention or just to seem outrageously sexual. I don't mind that people do it but it irks me. Maybe it's because I get annoyed at the responses if I'm genuinely interested in a lady. The first thing people think is FFM menage a trois and I can't even begin to express how much that pisses me off. "Take pictures" or other crass comments like that often ends up with fists flying in the air. If I was crushing on a guy would the first thought be the same? No.

My FemShep would've considered Traynor had it not been the shower scene. Can't they bond over things that have nothing to do with bare skin and T&A? Why not chess first...then shower scene? Why shower scene first? Because the last time I checked, I had a couple of coffee dates with my partner before getting into the shower.

[earthdaddy]

From what I saw, if you play the default male Shep you are basically SOL in the love interest department as well.

I had several different saves with different romances, but didn't transfer them to my new computer. So I went with the default Shep, and had a fling with the reporter chick. I have no idea what the cannon default romance history was, but either I'm really bad at picking dialogue or there were no options for romance for default Shep other than the reporter, and that was just wham bam thank you ma'am. I take that back, I could have boned Cortez.

So I get to the base on earth, and I get a chance to call a couple of people before I go die. My options of people to call are Cortez and friggin Jacob. Miranda had died, Ashley had gone off to be a Spectre and I never saw or heard from her again after the Odina thing, Liara and Tali are both on the ship but I don't have their phone numbers I guess.

I'm fine with a no romance playthrough, but these people were my crew and my friends and I get the choice to call the gay guy in the docking bay that kept crying about his dead husband or the guy I ignored completely in volume 2.

I am also fine with Shep dying at the end, in fact I kinda like my endings tragic and full of sacrifice, but I was just confused more than anything.

Speaking of tragic, I was really moved when Mordin gave his life to cure the genophage. I tried to tell him on the shuttle when it was just he and the female Krogan, but the cut scene throttled that, and I didn't want to say anything in front of the Krogan leader in the truck because Default Shep killed Wrex in volume 1 and this new guy was a douche who would have really taken it out on the Salarians. I really liked Mordin, and it was well written.

[SilentK]

Calei wrote...

I really didn't like having Kaidan being the only male (particularly the only human male) option for my non-import first run of the game. I just finished it last night and was left deflated by a few key factors, romance being a big part of it.

I don't really like Kaidan's character. I did enjoy the flirting with Vega and didn't understand why he couldn't be an option, and I also was pulling for a Joker relationship. With everything involved in the games, Joker and Garrus are the only two male companions Shepard has had throughout the whole deal. Would it not have been more meaningful to have either of these two as options (at all, for Joker) without having to have had a previous encounter in a prior game?

Well, it is a very sad situation for a new FemShep coming into the game. Gay BroShep get's more men in ME3 than FemShep considering the fact that he get's Cortez and Kaidan and FemShep has Kaidan as the only male in the galaxy. FemShep is great, they have done wonderful things with her, but the lack of options available to her irks me quite a bit.

I <3 FemShep, and nothing will keep me from playing. But this has made me pretty sad.

[Spiffy McBang]

earthdaddy wrote...

From what I saw, if you play the default male Shep you are basically SOL in the love interest department as well.

I had several different saves with different romances, but didn't transfer them to my new computer. So I went with the default Shep, and had a fling with the reporter chick. I have no idea what the cannon default romance history was, but either I'm really bad at picking dialogue or there were no options for romance for default Shep other than the reporter, and that was just wham bam thank you ma'am. I take that back, I could have boned Cortez.

So I get to the base on earth, and I get a chance to call a couple of people before I go die. My options of people to call are Cortez and friggin Jacob. Miranda had died, Ashley had gone off to be a Spectre and I never saw or heard from her again after the Odina thing, Liara and Tali are both on the ship but I don't have their phone numbers I guess.

I'm fine with a no romance playthrough, but these people were my crew and my friends and I get the choice to call the gay guy in the docking bay that kept crying about his dead husband or the guy I ignored completely in volume 2.

As far as I'm aware, if you hooked it up with Diana, you're stuck with her.  I thought my FemShep's deal with Traynor was the same thing, but after one mostly-dressed romp in the shower (?!) they were together forever.

But default ManShep does have more options than that.  Disregarding the gay/bi options and Diana, he still can get with Ashley or Liara.  Why you didn't get the chance- and for that matter, why you never saw Ashley again after the Udina mess- I can't say.  Ashley rejoined my crew after I put a bullet in Udina.  Miranda, Jack, and Tali are no-go for a new Shep.

[MaraGriffyn]

You make a few good points, but calling a dress "skanky" and setting up a dichotomy wherein femShep is "respectable" and not a "hooker" seriously undermines parts of your argument. Just saying.

[crazily_insane11]

On my first full playthrough, I picked my single Shep hoping/praying that Joker would be an LI or at the very least Vega. I had also nuked Kaiden. I was honestly upset when I finally realized that there wasn't a single guy I could romance. While I think it's great Bioware made s/s romances, I would have at least liked one more guy. Heck, if they'd allowed Jack or Ashley to be romanceable I probably wouldn't even be complaining.

...at least I still have Garrus.

[The Real Bowser]

James should have been a romance option for female Shepard. Besides that I don't really have any comment on this. Sorry. I didn't read your massive OP and I don't really want to.

[ElnVld]

KMYash wrote...

So for Femshep that means:

Kaidan: possibly romance-able/dead
Garrus: possible IF you import romance from 2 or he romances Tali
James: Flirts but no romance
Joker: Rejects you for a sexbot
Thane: dies/'romance-able' if you import
Jacob: if romanced in 2 you get dumped/cheated on 

 OMG. I'm really disappointed! And if so ... I don't like playing this game anymore.

Modifié par ElnVld, 16 mars 2012 - 09:40 .

[PsyrenY]

It sort of makes sense that Vega won't go for you though. You're back in the Alliance as his superior and there are regs vs. fraternization.

But with Ashley/Kaidan, in ME1 you were expecting to be discharged anyway, and in ME3 you're both Spectres and can do whatever you want.

[Eromenos]

Optimystic_X wrote...

It sort of makes sense that Vega won't go for you though. You're back in the Alliance as his superior and there are regs vs. fraternization.

But with Ashley/Kaidan, in ME1 you were expecting to be discharged anyway, and in ME3 you're both Spectres and can do whatever you want.

The galaxy is definitely on fire during these events. "Discipline" is tightening up in some areas, while dissolving in many others.   Normandy is an Alliance warship, but a lot of the official activities onboard are being fulfilled by folks who appointed themselves to necessary positions spontaneously.

I remember the first time hearing Katy Perry's "I Kissed a Girl" and I was livid. I hate that some people "play up" to be bisexual when they're doing it for attention or just to seem outrageously sexual. I don't mind that people do it but it irks me. Maybe it's because I get annoyed at the responses if I'm genuinely interested in a lady. The first thing people think is FFM menage a trois and I can't even begin to express how much that pisses me off. "Take pictures" or other crass comments like that often ends up with fists flying in the air. If I was crushing on a guy would the first thought be the same? No.  

Mireisen, this bears repeating. Thumbs-up particularly for the mutual Katy Perry-hate.   F/F relationships in ME follow the same patterns. They "can" appeal to women but people have got to be deluded if they think these particular ones were created for women first.

Modifié par Eromenos, 16 mars 2012 - 03:30 .

[Calei]

I also noted on here how people were discussing the distribution for o/s and s/s relationships. I think both genders should have gotten one exclusive s/s and one exclusive o/s human option. I'm cool with the varying options and having bi options. Whatever floats your boat. It should absolutely be equal, since there's NO reason why it should not.

[venusara]

Signing in here as another female gamer who was totally disappointed with the romance options for FemShep! I also agree with the OP, FemShep's dress looked way ****tier this time 'o round. Apparently she decided to burn the bra?

That being said, I don't think the majority of the women posters on here are hating Bioware at all. We are disappointed because we LOVE them so much; seeing what they've done in the past with Dragon Age and ME2...we had higher expectations for ME3. I adored Mass Effect, but I, like most other women on here felt a bit shafted by the choices we were given.

I only want to add my criticism in the hopes that Bioware realizes there are millions of other women out there like me who have lots of $$$ to spend for games that provide a great all around experience. More and more women are gaming these days (and finding "casual" games insufficient entertainment). As far as I can tell Bioware is a pioneer for this huge market and I only want them to step forward instead of back.

[venusara]

An article from Forbes says: "In fact, 38% of console gamers and 43% of PC gamers are women. The stereotype of a gamer as a 14-year-old boy couldn't be further from the truth."

Modifié par venusara, 17 mars 2012 - 12:06 .

[Mara281]

Spiffy McBang wrote...

Mara281 wrote... 

- Make Garrus romancable in ME3 without the ME2 condition. I find it strange that they did this in the first place since Garrus is a major romancable character. Why is this condition even in there? [edit: Is it there for Tali too? If it is, it should be taken out for both. The condition that they had to be romanced in the previous game just doesn't make sense, especially if your new to ME]

Gotta disagree with you on this one.  Much of the game is designed to cater to newer players; this is one way in which they give old-school ME gamers a taste of something all their own, which is nice.  It also gives those romances a more long-term feel, and if the general opinions on them are anything to go by, they're written with that idea in mind.  It would make no sense for them to be written as if your romance in ME3 was new when it's not, but it would also make no sense for them to behave as if it's a real LTR if you hadn't been with them in ME2.  The ways around that would be to either write them with a certain amount of vagueness, or make two different possible romance situations... and I think we'd agree that time would be better spent finishing Vega's LI scenario.  >_>

Yeah, I can see that. It would probably mess with the writing for the VS or even Liara if you hadn't previously romanced Garrus or Tali in ME2 and then tried to make it happen in 3, so I can understand the need to make it that way then. Still feels a little restrictive, but at least understandably so. And that gives more people incentive to play ME2 as well.

[venusara]

I agree

Modifié par venusara, 17 mars 2012 - 03:10 .

[medusa_hair]

I agree.  I actually felt that there was a lack in ME2 as well...we had one boring human, one locust (though I really like him, I don't lust after insects), and one dying amphibian (with an absolutely sexy voice - you'll guess who I picked).  The guys had Miranda (she of the clingy white suit - which only made her even more annoying), Jack (for those who like tattoos and that whole kinky vibe), and Tali (woman of mystery) - all human or essentially human.

The place where straight women got gypped is if they sacrificed Kaidan and didn't romance Garrus in ME2.  That left us with....(drum roll please)...NOBODY!  Wow.  Really? 

Actually, this time around I think straight people in general got cheated.  There are more gay options than straight, not a reflection of the real world.  Sorry, but that's how it is.  A classic example of the squeaky wheel, I think... It's definitely an area that needed to be addressed and I think it's great that they had the guts to put that in, considering the uproar over it that has occurred in certain circles, but I think they overcompensated a bit.

Don't even get me started on why every single woman (except Shepard, thank God) has giant breasts (even Samara!) and looks like they wear an antigravity bra (can I get one of those?).

Being a PS3 player, I did not play ME1.  I have to say I really like Kaidan and I thought that romance in ME3 was written very well, and he is fine voice actor.  Really, I got teared up a couple of times (to my surprise) with conversations...and death scenes for other characters (which has nothing to do with this thread, just reflective of the general level of writing and acting this time around).

I'm sure with all the controversy over the ending, they have enough to deal with (although I have my own ideas on that which I won't get into on this thread).Here's hoping they will either 1) add another DLC character but one who can be romanced (but I doubt they will; just think of all the extra dialogue/animations/code they would have to produce) or 2) at least keep this issue in their mind so their next game can be more fully realized for us female gamers. 

Thanks for bringing this up!  I wondered if I was the only one who thought this, but I guess I am not...

[Spiffy McBang]

medusa_hair wrote...

Actually, this time around I think straight people in general got cheated.  There are more gay options than straight, not a reflection of the real world.  Sorry, but that's how it is.  A classic example of the squeaky wheel, I think... It's definitely an area that needed to be addressed and I think it's great that they had the guts to put that in, considering the uproar over it that has occurred in certain circles, but I think they overcompensated a bit..

 

There are six straight, four bi, and two gay NPCs.  So, between FemShep and ManShep, you have ten potential straight relationships and six potential gay ones.  Definitely still more straight.

That said, the proportion is indeed not anywhere near in line with the real world, and I think that's something we have to get used to.  If a game includes one gay and one bi NPC of each gender, and you figure 10% of the population is either gay or bi (3% are gay, so 10% combined is probably too high), you would need approximately 40 NPCs to maintain proper proportions.  Furthermore, since most players aren't going to be invested in an NPC's sexuality unless s/he is a love interest, you would actually need 40 romanceable NPCs.  That's not happening any time soon, at least not if you want any sort of relationship depth.  (The Witcher didn't even have that many, and the point of that game was, in part, for the main character to bang as many women as possible, with only a couple actually leading to something like a relationship.)

medusa_hair wrote... Don't even get me started on why every single woman (except Shepard, thank God) has giant breasts (even Samara!) and looks like they wear an antigravity bra (can I get one of those?).

Traynor is about Shepard's size.  I'm pretty sure Jack looks normal too (apart from the tats, I mean).  According to my roommate, who's an artist, big boobs are easier to draw on a woman than small ones, so when I see lots of mega-****** bouncing around, I just tend to assume it's because of that.  Either the same thing applies in 3D, or a lot of artists just do that as a matter of course because it was easier while they learned to draw, so that's how they've always designed female characters.

I'm not saying it should simply be accepted as How Things Are, just that there may be reasons for it beyond a bunch of dudes wanting to draw a bunch of easily objectifiable women.

[jupitertronic]

I don't want to be a jerk and I'm sure this is obvious, but as a big-chested girl it kinda hurts my feelings to hear that small boobs are "normal" and big ones aren't. I'm shaped a lot more like Liara than FemShep, and I know the popular opinion in the world seems to be that that somehow makes me a hussy, but that's just the genetic hand I was dealt.

Actually I wish there was more variation in all the humanoid models in the game. Apparently everyone except the volus have cured obesity in the future, and everyone is the same height. Hah.

Anyway, I know what you guys meant. Just wanted to add that there are different points of view when it comes to body shapes in games. In general I've actually always applauded Mass Effect for having fairly realistic body shapes on their human characters.

Except the arms. FemShep has scary Angelina Jolie arms when she isn't wearing long sleeves and it freaks me out.

(Edit) This went a bit off-topic, sorry. I think I was trying not to think about how horribly the Thane/FemShep romance played out, because UGH. I've been hunting for fix-it fan fic non-stop for like 5 days straight now. Best one yet: Garrus finds Shep in Life Support holding a datapad with Thane's letter on it and then talks to her about it, because that's what SHOULD have happened.

Bah, I'm bitter.

Modifié par jupitertronic, 17 mars 2012 - 09:53 .

[Spiffy McBang]

jupitertronic wrote...

I don't want to be a jerk and I'm sure this is obvious, but as a big-chested girl it kinda hurts my feelings to hear that small boobs are "normal" and big ones aren't. I'm shaped a lot more like Liara than FemShep, and I know the popular opinion in the world seems to be that that somehow makes me a hussy, but that's just the genetic hand I was dealt.

The popular opinion of the world exists because the world is by and large made up of very, very stupid people.

I suppose I take it for granted when the topic arises, but I shouldn't, so to be clear- all boobs are "normal", but you only see a certain percentage reach a relatively grandiose size.  And only a fraction of those are so big that they're right out there even in the gear a woman wears during intense physical activity (say, for example, combat).  I'm not familiar with the precise body structures of female MMA fighters- oh god, I wish- but the only one I've seen with boobs you couldn't ignore even when she was fighting is Gina Carano.  I saw an interview with one of Mia Hamm's teammates where she said Hamm had some pretty substantial chest action going on, but you'd never really know it to see her run around a soccer field.  Maybe you could tell she had more than her teammates, but that's all.

That's really where the critique comes from.  It's not that women in games can't have sizable breasts, it's that putting half of them in "OMG LOOK AT THOSE SWEET ******" outfits is deeply unrealistic and fan-servicey.

Modifié par Spiffy McBang, 17 mars 2012 - 10:13 .

[razviolet]

 As much as I love the romance aspect I would rather Bioware focus more on the core story and cohesion of the ME universe from game to game. Being a female gamer myself I know why ya’ll would want characters and game play mechanics that brake away from gender stereotypes that the media in general is disturbingly locked into. After all stereotypes are boring and in no way create a good story or fresh experience. Just having the choice to play through a game as a female character makes the game more immersive and personal for me. In fact I would say Bioware is almost mocking stereotype images while still catering to the ‘typical’. Doesn’t the game as a whole explore prejudice, sexism, sexual orientation, and discrimination for both genders and other races (the aliens)? They practically run every social issue in human history through their paces and question/allow you to challenge them. 

Bioware is dipping into some dangerously untested waters as a company that survives on making as much money as it can which I commend them for. The first ME game was originally targeted to guys (I will assume) but from what I’ve seen Bioware has greatly adapted to accommodate their female audience in the sequels. So what if we girls have less straight romance options than guys and a few awkward moments of male-fanservice girls throwing themselves at you for a fling. I would call having two or more real options for us a victory in the history of gaming. An example is how beautifully the Garrus romance was achieved. I think we should point out everything that went right with it so those ideas and mechanics can be applied to other characters in the future and be further improved upon. The only instance that is really broken is Thane who had his entire character development and relationship with Shepard trashed if he was romanced. He became a purely broken game mechanic in this instance. At least with Jacob the story is still ‘humanized’ and in a form of progression.

Really I would count us gals lucky when compared to the guy’s LI. While they get stuck with static alien women who hardly change in appearance by race from the stereotypical hourglass model we get some interesting dimorphism and personalities. Garrus may like only Shepard and not have a thing for humans but I sure as heck have a thing for Turians . And honestly I want to Bslap half the LI girls in this game because of their personalities. Thankfully they develop and ‘slightly’ grow out of their ruts by ME3. One of the best examples being Jack who goes from a shattered glass Mary Sue to a genuine person I can almost like.

Lastly, was the dress in the unimportant casual outfit slider ugly as sin? Yes but I hardly cared. I’m pretty sure any guy would say it looked awful too even though I have a sneaking suspicion one designed it. I mean come on, it doesn’t even complement Shepards body type at all. It looks like she’s wearing a trash bag. I want to find the one responsible for drawing it up so I can poke fun at just how bad it is. My Shep happily ran around in her fatigues for every meeting and at this point could care less if she talked to the president in her underwear and was fired for it; she’s still going to get the job done. At least her armor is real battle armor and not those skimpy outfits chicks in other games wear that would get  a person killed in five seconds flat (i.e. Miranda). I was waiting for miss ‘my perfect biotics make me invincible’ to be shot up when she wasn’t paying attention and leave her sorely wishing she had taken Shepards word. I even half expected Bioware might do that.

Modifié par razviolet, 17 mars 2012 - 03:37 .