66 réponses à ce sujet

[Deathstyk85]

p.s. its also about giving the "right" gifts to people. not just every gift.

in the codex, after youve raised your approval some, and given them a few of the right gift it will tell you what they like for the most part.

also there are several posts with gift giving guides.

[Zifbox]

Luckily (I guess) I decided that, unlike with most RPGs, my first playthrough would be with a "bad" character. So Morrigan and I got along just fine! :-D

[Beechwell]

Viglin wrote...

Jisai wrote...

Ok... First of all, and this isnt a slight against you immortal_scream but you are RPing a Warrior, whom is acting the role of a Paladin ethic (Lawful good/Sainthood). Here you wish to catch the interest of a woman whom is at best Lawful Evil maybe even Chaotic Neutral... something right off the bat should tell you that your wish is flawed, ie big red flag. You are speaking about how she disagreed with everything you do except idle/cordial chatter in camp... and you are not seeing that maybe she is for all intensive purposes, out of your league? Not only alignment-wise, but potentially sexually? =o Plus... you are giving her gifts, feeding her self-loving and buying her affections... just sayin. =3

Always good to see for every 5 action/loot fest players theres an actual rpger:)

I disagree. Role playing isn't just about acting out the moral ideal of your character. Even a saintly noble may feel immensly attracted to an exotic beauty that acts against all he is brought up to believe. He may try to make her see the light. He may reason that she is as amoral as she is because of her upbringing. He may even be humbled by the (apparent) selflesness (sp?) with which Morrigan and Flemeth help the Gray Wardens in their hour of plight.
And as a dwarf noble, even as a saintly one, he will likely share some rather ignoble believes about wether certain people (castless dwarves) even deserve to live.

[Beechwell]

Viglin wrote...

Jisai wrote...



Ok... First of all, and this isnt a slight against you immortal_scream but you are RPing a Warrior, whom is acting the role of a Paladin ethic (Lawful good/Sainthood). Here you wish to catch the interest of a woman whom is at best Lawful Evil maybe even Chaotic Neutral... something right off the bat should tell you that your wish is flawed, ie big red flag. You are speaking about how she disagreed with everything you do except idle/cordial chatter in camp... and you are not seeing that maybe she is for all intensive purposes, out of your league? Not only alignment-wise, but potentially sexually? =o Plus... you are giving her gifts, feeding her self-loving and buying her affections... just sayin. =3

Always good to see for every 5 action/loot fest players theres an actual rpger:)

I disagree. Role playing isn't just about acting out the moral ideal of your character. Even a saintly noble may feel immensly attracted to an exotic beauty that acts against all he is brought up to believe. He may try to make her see the light. He may reason that she is as amoral as she is because of her upbringing. He may even be humbled by the (apparent) selflesness (sp?) with which Morrigan and Flemeth help the Gray Wardens in their hour of plight.

And as a dwarf noble, even as a saintly one, he will likely share some rather ignoble believes about wether certain people (castless dwarves) even deserve to live.

[JobacNoor]

"Opposites attract" might be a cliché, but it's often true.

[Slaign]

Yea. YOU can do whatever you want. It's an RPG. You're playing a role. The people around you, however, do not have to like what you choose to do. If the role you choose to play is opposite what the person likes, they will not like you. That is part of playing a role, accepting the consequences.



As far as "opposites attract," apparently not, since Morrigan isn't showing you interest and you don't seem to care enough to make it work.



If you are going to play the role of a saintly hero with a crush on the naughty vixen, you're going to have to put in the legwork such a character would need to do. That means you need to talk to her and make her like you in camp, buy her gifts, do her favors, and pay a lot of attention to her. Further, you have to keep actions she would disapprove of out of her sight by leaving her at camp when you go off to be a hero.



If you cannot romance Morrigan without breaking from the role you have chosen for your character, then you have created a character that Morrigan will not love. That doesn't mean your character is wrong, or that Morrigan is wrong, but that you are wrong for each other. At that point, you can either decide to move on and stick to your ideals, or have your character swayed by love to change into the kind of man Morrigan wants to be with.



Unrequited love is realistic. Role playing games are all about interaction, inter-personal relationships, and choices. You have influence over what you do in the world you are given, but no influence over how the world reacts. Like life. Be thankful RPGs are more forgiving.

[mrao]

I disagree. Role playing isn't just about acting out the moral ideal of your character. Even a saintly noble may feel immensly attracted to an exotic beauty that acts against all he is brought up to believe. He may try to make her see the light. He may reason that she is as amoral as she is because of her upbringing. He may even be humbled by the (apparent) selflesness (sp?) with which Morrigan and Flemeth help the Gray Wardens in their hour of plight.
And as a dwarf noble, even as a saintly one, he will likely share some rather ignoble believes about wether certain people (castless dwarves) even deserve to live.

I agree. In fact, my patient, understanding characters are the ones who get along with Morrigan the best, perhaps out of some futile notion that they might be able to change her.

[Jisai]

Beechwell wrote...
I disagree. Role playing isn't just about acting out the moral ideal of your character. Even a saintly noble may feel immensly attracted to an exotic beauty that acts against all he is brought up to believe. He may try to make her see the light. He may reason that she is as amoral as she is because of her upbringing. He may even be humbled by the (apparent) selflesness (sp?) with which Morrigan and Flemeth help the Gray Wardens in their hour of plight.
And as a dwarf noble, even as a saintly one, he will likely share some rather ignoble believes about wether certain people (castless dwarves) even deserve to live.

You are correct in your point that RP isnt just about acting out the moral ideal of ones character. Another facet is also acting out the flaws in that character morality.

Sure, a saintly noble has feelings and emotions, human sexuality is nearly impossible to neuter. He my indeed attempt to persuade said beauty to his thinking. However when one brings in amorality due to upbringing and other outside stimuli then that delves deeper into the why of human reasoning and personality flaws which is wonderful for RP!

It seems alot of focus is on Morrigan in the threads created on the forum lately, about her personal preferences, why she acts the way she does and her morality. Morrigan is not a complicated personality, she can be direct, self-serving, elusive and  manipulative, but that is her nature as Chaotic Neutral/Lawful Evil. She typically wont care unless it directly affects her or her own advancement.

*Shrugs*
People are people, if you know what to look for, its not really all that hard to figure out!

Oh! One more thing.
The idea is Opposites attract is indeed a truism, however, like two magnets they will eventually either do one of two things. Either 1, they will tire of each other and lose all attraction, or 2, they will explode apart in a violent reversal of attraction. Doesnt really sound good to try wither one unless you are into limited self-indulgance (IE, just in it for a one night stand).

Modifié par Jisai, 28 novembre 2009 - 05:09 .

[immortal_scream]

I love this discussion

[GhostMatter]

I romanced her the first or second time I got to camp, it's really easy.

• Gifts
• Reload when you see minus approval in camp dialogue or NPC

[Garagnoir]

*cough* Morrigan's a ****.



*spoiler* No matter if she hates you or not she'll still give you a shot at the horizontal mambo eventually.

[slackbheep]

Yeah as several other people have already pointed out, it's quite easy to play whatever 'alignment' you want and still be at max relationship value for everyone in your party through gifts and so on if you're not worried about portraying a consistent character. (Or your character is just the sort to tell everyone what they want to hear ) As for specific advice, if I recall correctly there are several types of gifts Morrigan liked a lot (+6) that were frequently found and stocked such as Tribal necklaces or pretty much any jewelry. (http://social.biowar...47/index/168918 has a list of other items characters like, for reference )

[Recidiva]

StupidWiz wrote...

I never play as Dwarves, been curious how the sexual cutscenes go with them lol XD

I made a male noble dwarf romancing Leliana.

She kneels down before she kisses him.

[Recidiva]

slackbheep wrote...

Yeah as several other people have already pointed out, it's quite easy to play whatever 'alignment' you want and still be at max relationship value for everyone in your party through gifts and so on if you're not worried about portraying a consistent character. (Or your character is just the sort to tell everyone what they want to hear ) As for specific advice, if I recall correctly there are several types of gifts Morrigan liked a lot (+6) that were frequently found and stocked such as Tribal necklaces or pretty much any jewelry. (http://social.biowar...47/index/168918 has a list of other items characters like, for reference )

Yup.  You can do pretty much whatever you want as long as you don't do a few crucial things.  Leliana will always leave if you poison the ashes.  Wynne will try to kill you if you side with the Templars.  Shale will try to kill you if he's there with you and you side against Caradin. 

Alistair and Morrigan though, they're pretty easy and they'll be upset, but if you do their personal quests and give them gifts, they'll adore you.  Just tell them what they want to hear.

I usually just park Morrigan in camp and give her things and don't hear from her until the end of the game.

[Relshar]

I thought Morrigan was an easy lay. Far easier than Lilliana. Although I lost approval with her in some situations I seemed to gain alot in others. I know in all my play throughs as a male she is the first one I take to the tent then the Bard.

[wlderotter]

immortal_scream wrote...

I've been playing the game for good 20 hours and enjoy every single minute of it.

I'm playing a Dwarf Noble warrior, and balancing between a good character and a saint, which literally makes me hate Morrigan, as she disapproves ANY desicions that I make. The only time she approves me is when I either give her gifts or talk to her at the party camp.

So basically, you can only romance Morrigan if your character is a complete utter @sshole?

P.S. Morrigan is an amazing mage =) Still hate her though, haa

I played a city elf - good guy - tried to romance Liliana - got her to 100 - just warm - no romance.  Killed Morrigan's Mother and she hopped into bed with me at 85 - adoration.  I didn't even have her in the party after i got Wynne.  Give her the black grimoire, kill Flemeth and then talk to her - worked wonders for me.

[wlderotter]

Jisai wrote...

Beechwell wrote...
I disagree. Role playing isn't just about acting out the moral ideal of your character. Even a saintly noble may feel immensly attracted to an exotic beauty that acts against all he is brought up to believe. He may try to make her see the light. He may reason that she is as amoral as she is because of her upbringing. He may even be humbled by the (apparent) selflesness (sp?) with which Morrigan and Flemeth help the Gray Wardens in their hour of plight.
And as a dwarf noble, even as a saintly one, he will likely share some rather ignoble believes about wether certain people (castless dwarves) even deserve to live.

You are correct in your point that RP isnt just about acting out the moral ideal of ones character. Another facet is also acting out the flaws in that character morality.

Sure, a saintly noble has feelings and emotions, human sexuality is nearly impossible to neuter. He my indeed attempt to persuade said beauty to his thinking. However when one brings in amorality due to upbringing and other outside stimuli then that delves deeper into the why of human reasoning and personality flaws which is wonderful for RP!

It seems alot of focus is on Morrigan in the threads created on the forum lately, about her personal preferences, why she acts the way she does and her morality. Morrigan is not a complicated personality, she can be direct, self-serving, elusive and  manipulative, but that is her nature as Chaotic Neutral/Lawful Evil. She typically wont care unless it directly affects her or her own advancement.

*Shrugs*
People are people, if you know what to look for, its not really all that hard to figure out!

Oh! One more thing.
The idea is Opposites attract is indeed a truism, however, like two magnets they will eventually either do one of two things. Either 1, they will tire of each other and lose all attraction, or 2, they will explode apart in a violent reversal of attraction. Doesnt really sound good to try wither one unless you are into limited self-indulgance (IE, just in it for a one night stand).

just an observation - I think Morrigan is more absolute neutral or maybe Neutral Evil than Lawful Evil.  She seems to be a law unto herself  some of her observations could indicate Chaotic Neutral, but I'm more inclined to think Absolute.

[Original182]

Gifts gifts gifts.



Also, the Grimoire adds a lot of loyalty points if you find it and give it to her.

[LightSabres]

Jisai wrote...

It seems alot of focus is on Morrigan in the threads created on the forum lately, about her personal preferences, why she acts the way she does and her morality. Morrigan is not a complicated personality, she can be direct, self-serving, elusive and  manipulative, but that is her nature as Chaotic Neutral/Lawful Evil. She typically wont care unless it directly affects her or her own advancement.

*Shrugs*
People are people, if you know what to look for, its not really all that hard to figure out!

Oh! One more thing.
The idea is Opposites attract is indeed a truism, however, like two magnets they will eventually either do one of two things. Either 1, they will tire of each other and lose all attraction, or 2, they will explode apart in a violent reversal of attraction. Doesnt really sound good to try wither one unless you are into limited self-indulgance (IE, just in it for a one night stand).

I think of Morrigan as more True Neutral with Neutral Evil tendencies.  She's self serving and manipulative.  She has no respect for those without the power to help themselves and she alludes to this several times in her conversations and her disapproval of your choices in Redcliffe.

I myself bedded her on the first camp after Lothering.  All I needed to do was get her approval to 51 and the next time I went to talk to her I got the "it's cold in my tent" conversation then it was wham bam thank you ma'am!

The REAL KEY TO ROMANCE IS THIS:

ROMANCES cannot be started while travelling around.  It's OK if you want to give them a couple of 'their" gifts when you are wandering around but don't do too much until you get to camp.  One of the tips that I think most people miss even explains that gift giving/talking to NPCs is best done while camping.  Even though you may get the same relationship bonus outside of camp it seems to have more impact towards the romance if you do it in camp.

[3SG Sage]

Yeah, what most everyone said. I was mostly good with some greede mixed in and had no problem with her. Once I got wynn I had my "good guy" crew of Leliana, Wynn and Alister and my "don't care as long as we have fun/profit" group with Morrigan, Zev and often Oghram, dog or Shale. Lost 5 or 10 points here and ther with her but by mid game had her over 65 and no real problem getting into her bed. In fact, she will invite you in from the cold at a lower rating than anyone else (as far as I have read).

[Archdemon Cthulhu]

Jisai wrote...

RPG's are meant to be a mirror, or at least good ones are meant to mimic the real world in a time where things were... simpler. The technicals and other such advancements didnt exist and the ideology of magic and fantastic beings and abilities are possible. Simply saying 'its an RPG, I can do whatever I want here' is not only a short-sighted statement, but one that shows you know nothing of the reasonings for an RPG to have the existance of character depth at all. 

While I definitely appreciate your sentiment that RPG's are meant for real role-playing, there has NEVER been a time in the real world where things were ever even close to as simple as they are in an RPG.  In fact, at any time where humans were involved, things have never been simple.

And also, I think you mean FANTASY rpg's, not just rpg's because rpg's can also be sci-fi. (Hell, technically they can be anything, it's just that the vast majority of them are sci-fi/fantasy)

[Maria Caliban]

Jisai wrote...

Ok... First of all, and this isnt a slight against you immortal_scream but you are RPing a Warrior, whom is acting the role of a Paladin ethic (Lawful good/Sainthood). Here you wish to catch the interest of a woman whom is at best Lawful Evil maybe even Chaotic Neutral... something right off the bat should tell you that your wish is flawed, ie big red flag.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Last time I checked, attraction does not have an alignment meter attached to it. You can romance Morrigan with a good character, and RP-wise, I see nothing strange about a paladin type falling for a bad girl. Okay, if she was slaughtering kittens, I’d understand. As is, she merely comes off as hurt and bitter, but never does anything evil.

[Avaraen]

LightSabres wrote...


The REAL KEY TO ROMANCE IS THIS:

ROMANCES cannot be started while travelling around.  It's OK if you want to give them a couple of 'their" gifts when you are wandering around but don't do too much until you get to camp.  One of the tips that I think most people miss even explains that gift giving/talking to NPCs is best done while camping.  Even though you may get the same relationship bonus outside of camp it seems to have more impact towards the romance if you do it in camp.

That isn't accurate. You can get Morrigan to kiss you in Lothering, even if that's the first place you talk to her; she'll then bed you when you get back to camp. You can get Leliana "interested" and get catty commentary between her and Morrigan in Lothering, before you ever even go to camp at all. Romances are 100% triggered by your choices in dialogue, regardless of where those dialogues take place. Yes, there are dialogues you can only get in camp, and yes some of those can trigger a romance, but being in camp is not a pre-requisite for starting a romance.

[immortal_scream]

YOU CAN KISS MO AT LOTHERING????

I'm so bad at this game

[Archun]

One other consideration, if you are planning on using a companion on some/any/all quests it's advantageous to get high approval from them for the bonuses it brings to their stats, even if you are not interested in romancing them. I use all three of the ladies at various times so I go out of my way to get high approval from them all. An amusing side bonus to doing this is the jealousy it provokes between Leliana and Morrigan.