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[Althernai]

BelgarathMTH wrote...

I will look for opportunities in this world to promote the "Creation magic comes from the Maker, and should therefore be part of the Chantry" point of view. They should be restricting magic to Creation magic, not lumping the whole thing including Healing into their "all magic is tainted" doctrine.

It doesn't work that way. Creation magic is dangerous; here is what the "official" wiki has to say about Spirit Healers:

It should also be noted that the calling of a spirit healer is a
dangerous one. The summoning of spirits through the Veil inevitably
draws demons to the mage, sometimes very powerful ones. More than one
tale exists of a spirit healer being fooled into believing a demon to
be a spirit and inadvertently bringing them across the Veil... or being
tricked into letting down their guard and possessed.

The greater part of the Chantry's official justification of their continued attempts to control all mages and exterminate or lobotomize those the ones who refuse to listen is that mages the have the potential to attract demons become abominations. They can't condone a branch that draws demons to the mage, no matter how useful.

I understand what you want, but it just isn't possible in Thedas. The Chantry considers magic to be a sin (which leads to some rather unsavory attitudes among the most devout of its followers) and most mages don't particularly like the Chantry either. DA:O priests are scholars, leaders and occasionally rogues, but the Maker (if He even exists) doesn't grant them the power clerics get in D&D -- even the supernatural abilties of the Templars are not divine...

[Entreprenuremberg]

There is an NPC labeled Cleric near the hungry prisoner in Ostagar.

[Zenon]

As previous posters said, the Chantry are more like a theological kind of clerics. The D&D cleric would be similar to a spirit healer. Combined with arcane warrior this spirit healer can wear full plate, more than any D&D cleric, and even wield 2h swords.

But as arcane warrior, you will use a good portion of your mana when in melee mode to channel your magic into fighting skills and protection. That mana is lost for the purpose of healing. So if your focus is healing you want to keep your mage out of melee. But you can switch quickly, if you have to.

I can't say more on how to become arcane warrior, since this is non-spoiler forum.

Modifié par Zenon, 28 novembre 2009 - 12:03 .

[The Capital Gaultier]

I, too, missed Clerics. Be nice to have them back, though Arcane Warrior does a pretty fair job of it, too.

[Ulrik the Slayer]

Lore aside, they needed Clerics. Letting Mages both deal damage, as well as being the supporter/healer simply puts too many tools in one package. Which is why Mages are far superiour to Rogues and Warriors.

[OgrynFlesh]

Heh, first I channel a spirit of rage through myself to burn my enemies to cinders and then hastily look for a benevolent spirit to heal my severely weakened allies.



Seems to me that the fire demon could hold back a bit and take advantage of the battle wizards distraction and turn that heal into a fireball. I reckon mages are alright having all the spells, but perhaps they should be limited to one school. Maybe every spell in an opposing school will weaken the other... then you could have dedicated creationists(haha) that can be clerics. Might earn the Chantry's trust a little more if the mage only channels the good ones.

[MikeIsGood]

Unlikely, unless they are willing to make a significant retcon to the lore.

Again, according to Chantry doctrine, the options for people with magic potential are as follows:

1) Life in the Tower as a Mage;
2) Hunted down and put to death for being an Apostate

Without giving away spoilers, given all of the events that occurred throughout the game (including, namely, the circle), I could see some sort of reformation and not having it contradict the backstory too strongly. Though the expansion would have to be as sort of a continuation of story after the original game's plot. rather than the DLC variety we've had so far.

[marshalleck]

Entreprenuremberg wrote...

There is an NPC labeled Cleric near the hungry prisoner in Ostagar.

The word "cleric" does not denote magical power. Many people in the real world have been called clerics. A cleric is just a member of a clergy.

Modifié par marshalleck, 28 novembre 2009 - 07:49 .

[F-C]

Kimberly Shaw wrote...

You can create one if you like. Spirit Healer/Arcane Warrior wearing plate and weilding a mace!

this.

[marshalleck]

MikeIsGood wrote...

Unlikely, unless they are willing to make a significant retcon to the lore.

Again, according to Chantry doctrine, the options for people with magic potential are as follows:

1) Life in the Tower as a Mage;
2) Hunted down and put to death for being an Apostate

Without giving away spoilers, given all of the events that occurred throughout the game (including, namely, the circle), I could see some sort of reformation and not having it contradict the backstory too strongly. Though the expansion would have to be as sort of a continuation of story after the original game's plot. rather than the DLC variety we've had so far.

No doubt. Another schism could be a major plot point for the series going forward. Especially considering Leliana's outlook and relationship with the Chantry.

[Sabbatai]

Just because the Chantry law says "no" does not mean that everyone will abide. Someone not abiding by "unfair" (subjective) laws is not necessarily evil.



Play your cleric. Just set a character up with the AW/SH mix and even then you can pick and choose skills.. so you have more control I think, in character creation.



Does the Chantry hold exclusive right to preach their version of the truth? Only as much as anyone holds any right... only as much as they are willing to die for it.



Seeking out Chantry members to kill them for their blasphemy against the Maker who obviously gave us creation magic would be wrong as He would never sanction killing someone simply because they were ignorant. Defending your right to expose people to the true power of the Maker, manifest through healing and the divine wrath brought down upon His enemies is paramount to your role as a messenger.



Is the Chantry the only way to the Maker? Are the Maker's blessings given only to those who claim membership with the Chantry?

[MikeIsGood]

I think it would be quite interesting, to be truthful, and as you said it would create another schism plot point.



And adding a class via expansion feels right up Bioware's alley, though I'm not sure how it'd be integrated (character creation-wise) exactly. You wouldn't really be able to retroactively play as a Cleric through the original plot line...

[Kaosgirl]

BelgarathMTH wrote...

I know, Iike I said, I'm playing a mage specializing in Creation magic and will become a Spirit Healer and Arcane Warrior as soon as I find trainers for them.

My point is that I miss role-playing a cleric, and man of faith and goodness who believes in something higher and greater in humanity and serves divinity.

...

You don't need a class for that.  

What's perhaps missing is a Chantry origin that gives you the social-status of a priest rather than a devout layman.  Which is something I'd certainly think should be considered for a sequel.  (hint hint)

BelgarathMTH wrote...
Also, part of my point is that I find it odd that all the religious people I'm meeting in the game are rogues.

I think the idea is that Priests aren't warriors, and the Fereldan biases against magic makes it impossible for mages to be true members of the Priesthood.  Rogue is the next-best class structure  - and with it's skill advancement, also the most apropriate for a 'scholar' type - though the available skills themselves aren't so much.

BelgarathMTH wrote...
Wouldn't it make sense that the Chantry would train mages who showed the right qualities as priests and monks/nuns? Do you think that since they encourage the belief that all magic is inherently evil unless tightly controlled, that it does not come from the Maker, and therfore that no one who is magic-sensitive is allowed to take religious orders?

Go to Tevinter.  (I know, out of this game's scope.)  Lore indicates that The Chantry's had a 'split,' much like the one that gave rise to Catholics versus Orthodox; the Circle is a part of the Chantry there, and the First Enchanter is also the Tevinter Divine (Chantry equivelant of the Pope.)

Fereldan interpretation of the doctrine considers this a blasphemy, and a repeat of the errors of old.  This is why Fereldan mages cannot be priests.

[marshalleck]

Sabbatai wrote...

Is the Chantry the only way to the Maker? Are the Maker's blessings given only to those who claim membership with the Chantry?

For that matter...is the Maker even real? 

[Chris_Really_Rocks]

1) What about the Tevinter Chantry -- the are down with magic.



2) I don't think the Chantry's desire to heavily regulate magic is not unreasonable -- they are dangerous. Their exclusive regulation, however, does seem to inure to their own benefit.



3) I don't know if the Maker even really exists or is everything the Chantry says he is.



4) A cleric that actually could heal by divine power doesn't mesh with the setting. Giving healing powers to templars or something could have resolved that problem.

[MikeIsGood]

Again without giving too much away, though I think this is more general world lore and not spoilers from the game itself, I could see Tevinter being a good setting for a sequel or expansion surrounded around the intersection of magic and the chantry. You could have conflict with the invading Qunari over land or whatever it is that they want, conflict over magic and the chantry with Orlais/everyone else, and conflict in the other nations' minds on whether to help Tevinter with their Qunari problem because of their decision to have magic be apart of the chantry.



I really don't know much at all about the world's backstory, but I think it could be interesting.

[Zifbox]

I get that the story is about a civilization that is in an early transition to monotheism, which is an attribute of a more advanced, technology-ready culture than a polytheistic one.

You mean like how the Grecco-Roman knowledge of nature, science, and mathematics was among the most advanced in the world (not to mention several eastern cultures), but then about the time that the monotheistic religions gained power and influence, the world was plunged into a technological dark age, and it took something like a millennium for us to catch back up? Yeah, monotheism is definitely indicative of advanced culture. 

They didn't make "healer" and "nuker" different classes because they're instead simply different specializations of the same thing. There's no need for different classes - "mage" becomes a ridiculously customizable experience for every player. Where perhaps they went wrong is that a mage can become too powerful at doing too many kinds of things by the end of the game, because each talent line is only 4 abilities. Adding a new "healer" class would be silly at this point - when you've got mages, why introduce a more limited version of the same thing? Restructuring how mages work in a full-on sequel would be much more plausible.

I like that in their first non-D&D yet "traditional" fantasy game, Bioware has boiled down the usual roles to only 3, widely customizable classes. It's not like mages are the only "combination" of D&D classes. Using only 3E PHB classes (and leaving out monk, unfortunately), we can get:
Warrior = fighter/barbarian/paladin
Rogue = rogue/ranger
Mage = wizard/sorcerer/cleric

[Sinfulvannila]

I dislike the DnD clerics. As a mouthpiece for a deity, that deity's power shouldn't be limited by the experience of the worshiper. It would make a lot more sense to give them a few archetypical powers and require a roll for the Deity's intercession, with scaling difficulty modifiers based on the power of the miracle, the situation involved and the number of times the deity was called on.

[Reynen Starfyre]

Cleric class has now been released:

Check out the following two sites:

http://www.dragonage...file.php?id=374

http://www.damods.co...php?topic=953.0

Enjoy

[Edelwolf]

the only reason we liked clerics is because they were OP, in 3rd edition.

[TheNecroFiend]

BelgarathMTH wrote...

However, isn't it odd that the best analogues to clerics, the brothers and sisters of the Chantry, are now classed as rogues, complete with rogue skills. That doesn't make complete sense and seems odd to me.
 

Holy men/clergy are crooks. Nothing odd about that.

I don't miss Clerics. Different gaming world with a different take. We have had Bio make quite a few games set in the D&D gaming universe. It's a nice change of pace. And as has been pointed out you can make a cleric if you really want to.