232 réponses à ce sujet

[raving rabbid]

BW:the fans, they are MAD!!!
EA:QUICK TO THE MONEY CLOSET!!!!

[Colancio]

Panicomatic wrote...

I plan on checking this forum daily, and contributing to the chaos, until there is an official response from bioware that will allow me to decide if I will never play their games again. And to think, I almost bought TOR.

Same situation.

[ed87]

I imagine an unknown figure walking into the meeting room followed by 3 words...

ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL

[Lambchopz]

[quote]Sainta117 wrote...

I've actually sat through the launch of games I've worked on (2 x AAA sports titles) and I can tell you, we definitely were paying attention to both critical and user reviews and feedback. The problem is, how do you respond to the kind of crushing tidal wave of disappointment that is coming from the fanbase currently? And knowing that this is likely only the leading edge of the disappointment - the reason this is blowing up *now* is that players are just starting to finish the game. I can tell you, I made a lot of free time for this game, and I only finished it two days ago. Then I spent a day or so in shock, and then I got mad. I suspect this will only get louder.

That being said, there's almost nothing anyone at Bioware can say. Any statement about this would have to come from the top, and once that happens it becomes policy, so nobody's going to say *anything* until they get official word on what management intends to do (if anything). Management is going to keep their mouths shut as long as possible so they can see what the best direction is to jump. I would bet you green money that behind closed doors there are a lot of concerned phone calls going around. Keep it up, and you'll have an impact. And don't forget to make your opinions known at Metacritic. Privately, people in the industry have been freaked out by the enormous influence of metacritic scores on sales for years - so hit 'em where it hurts.[/quote]

Pretty much this. I know it's good to make jokes out of this whole situation, probably makes it less frustrating for some, but keep in mind that this is likely a crushing blow to BioWare. If you spent 5 years of your life creating what you saw as an amazing narrative, pour your soul into it and missing tons of sleep, you would be absolutely heartbroken to find your fans hated the ending to it. It's pretty reasonable to believe they would be defensive and possibly angry at the outcry, yet still needing to be able to come up with a way to deal with this that doesn't alienate the rest of the remaining fan base.

I'm sure they are genuinely concerned about how to deal with this, I'm sure they WANT to find a way to deal with this, and I'm also sure they are somewhere between dissapointed and heartbroken at the fan response.

Please keep that in mind if you actually want a reasonable resolution.
[/quote]

[Kortenx12]

"Wait... They aren't joking..? They don't like the ending..? Meh..."

It's sort of funny.

[TurambarEA]

Teltaur wrote...

I like to have the image in my head of almost all the writers sitting around a desk completely dumbstruck and facepalming, with one running and jumping around, pointing while yelling "I TOLD YOU SO! I TOLD YOU THEY'D HATE IT!"

That's what I'd like to believe.

What I'd like to hope is that they're actually scrambling, wondering how 80% of the endings ended up locked on the discs that shipped or wondering why the game skipped an extra ten minutes of ending somewhere along the line.

[TexasToast712]

Realizing how many copies they sold.



Getting online to read fan feedback.

Modifié par TexasToast712, 13 mars 2012 - 05:28 .

[curufinwe03]

"I didn't expect a kind of spanish inquisition."

[Lambda Diamond]

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

"Look how much money we have."

this.

[Lendorien]

"Well, it sucks that people hate the end. Man, we feel bad about that.  But we can't exactly respond either. If only we'd been able to hold on to some of our original writing talent. Still, the game has sold millions of copies so far and they're still selling. Clearly the ending is not hurting sales.

This will blow over in a couple of weeks. Besides, EA will never greenlight us revising the end unless it's a paid DLC and that would just outrage fans further. No, let's just wait and see if this dies down. People are still going to buy DLC and our future games regardless of whether we fix it or not. This will blow over in a few weeks or a couple months and we'll move forward. In year most people won't even remember it."

Modifié par Lendorien, 13 mars 2012 - 05:41 .

[moteh]

I've actually sat through the launch of games I've worked on (2 x AAA
sports titles) and I can tell you, we definitely were paying attention
to both critical and user reviews and feedback. The problem is, how do
you respond to the kind of crushing tidal wave of disappointment that is
coming from the fanbase currently? And knowing that this is likely only
the leading edge of the disappointment - the reason this is blowing up
*now* is that players are just starting to finish the game. I can tell
you, I made a lot of free time for this game, and I only finished it two
days ago. Then I spent a day or so in shock, and then I got mad. I
suspect this will only get louder.

That being said, there's
almost nothing anyone at Bioware can say. Any statement about this would
have to come from the top, and once that happens it becomes policy, so
nobody's going to say *anything* until they get official word on what
management intends to do (if anything). Management is going to keep
their mouths shut as long as possible so they can see what the best
direction is to jump. I would bet you green money that behind closed
doors there are a lot of concerned phone calls going around. Keep it up,
and you'll have an impact. And don't forget to make your opinions known
at Metacritic. Privately, people in the industry have been freaked out
by the enormous influence of metacritic scores on sales for years - so
hit 'em where it hurts.

I've been there (not a AAA title, indie stuff) and I have no idea where people got this idea that devs are all in it for their check and nothing else.  I have a blue collar job on the side I do for a check and continually work on starting a indie dev company.  I'm not doing game dev for a check, I'm doing it because I love games and the stories.

Like any true artist a passionate game dev who is working on an original IP that isn't just some cash grab is very pained when someone doesn't like their work as they generally put their all into it.  They believe they have delivered the best possible experience given their resources.  In many ways Bioware delivered exactly what I and many people wanted with the game, the endings being the exception to that.  I want them to change it, but I'm not going to declare outright war on them and vilify them.  I have personally thanked Mike Gamble on twitter for the great memories but I have also expressed my desire for new endings.

Modifié par moteh, 13 mars 2012 - 05:49 .

[EAadembroski]

Sainta117 wrote...

I've actually sat through the launch of games I've worked on (2 x AAA sports titles) and I can tell you, we definitely were paying attention to both critical and user reviews and feedback. The problem is, how do you respond to the kind of crushing tidal wave of disappointment that is coming from the fanbase currently? And knowing that this is likely only the leading edge of the disappointment - the reason this is blowing up *now* is that players are just starting to finish the game. I can tell you, I made a lot of free time for this game, and I only finished it two days ago. Then I spent a day or so in shock, and then I got mad. I suspect this will only get louder.

That being said, there's almost nothing anyone at Bioware can say. Any statement about this would have to come from the top, and once that happens it becomes policy, so nobody's going to say *anything* until they get official word on what management intends to do (if anything). Management is going to keep their mouths shut as long as possible so they can see what the best direction is to jump. I would bet you green money that behind closed doors there are a lot of concerned phone calls going around. Keep it up, and you'll have an impact. And don't forget to make your opinions known at Metacritic. Privately, people in the industry have been freaked out by the enormous influence of metacritic scores on sales for years - so hit 'em where it hurts.

Truth. I've been there as well, and I'm an active participant with the community. I've had fans literally scream in my face due to their disappointment. The idea that a dev team is sitting around the office passing out cigars in celebration of their upcoming bonus checks is bogus. We don't bust 80 hour weeks and neglect our friends and families for a check, we do it because we care about the product we make.

The second paragraph is pretty key. I guarantee the "additional ending" discussion is being had, though I don't know if it'll gain any traction, it'll be talked about. Rest assured, though, someone wants it. Even if the devs had free reign to come in and say whatever they wanted, they'd be asking for a lynching and they know it. When you've worked with the general public, you realize quickly that sometimes, there's just nothing you can say. 

I guess all I can say is that I'd give anything for Bioware to go all out to regain the trust of it's fanbase by releasing a stand-alone DLC that just HAPPENS to include the sort of 100% RPG-style interaction of the first two Mass Effect games. I have to say, just adding new ending wont do it for me... I need ME1 and ME2 style interaction from the start of the game. I will not play another Bioware game like ME3 or DA2. I hate to say it, because UNTIL DA2 dropped, I had more faith in Bioware than any company in the world, regardless of the business they're in.

Anyways, I finished the game about an hour ago and, at this moment... well, Mass Effect 1 and 2 are quite literally my favorite games of all time, and I'm not sure if I'll ever be able to play them again. It feels like an overreaction, if feels like I'm taking it too far... but 137 hours of ME1, 235 hours of ME2, and it feels like it's been wasted right now. 

I wanted a triumphant ending. It was a game... one of the few... that truly portrayed mankind at its best. During the Renessance era in Europe, even up until the 1950s, popular art portrayed mankind as heroic and virtuous. Now days, it's like we can only point out our faults. It's nice to have a story that's inspring, that seeks to bring out the best in us rather than point out the worst. Mass Effect was well on its way to being something inspirational. The game was about sacrifice... but the end should have been about triumph. Shepard should have been the hero, not some synthetic space ghost we had no clue existed until this point. I'd have been satisfied if the Reapers were nothing more than evil bastards who used organics to reproduce and didn't touch the fledgling races out of a belief that they weren't "ripe" because they hadn't evolved enough to become reapers yet. That would have been PREDICTABLE, sure, but it would have made sense. 

Anyways, I guess I'll end the rant. To Bioware: you accomplished a lot in this game, technically. There's a lot to be proud of. Could you do me a favor? In the future, don't start with an RPG and evolve it backwards into a shooter. Stick with what you know and have been the best in the business at for 14 years.

[Spectre_Shepard]

EAadembroski wrote...

Sainta117 wrote...

I've actually sat through the launch of games I've worked on (2 x AAA sports titles) and I can tell you, we definitely were paying attention to both critical and user reviews and feedback. The problem is, how do you respond to the kind of crushing tidal wave of disappointment that is coming from the fanbase currently? And knowing that this is likely only the leading edge of the disappointment - the reason this is blowing up *now* is that players are just starting to finish the game. I can tell you, I made a lot of free time for this game, and I only finished it two days ago. Then I spent a day or so in shock, and then I got mad. I suspect this will only get louder.

That being said, there's almost nothing anyone at Bioware can say. Any statement about this would have to come from the top, and once that happens it becomes policy, so nobody's going to say *anything* until they get official word on what management intends to do (if anything). Management is going to keep their mouths shut as long as possible so they can see what the best direction is to jump. I would bet you green money that behind closed doors there are a lot of concerned phone calls going around. Keep it up, and you'll have an impact. And don't forget to make your opinions known at Metacritic. Privately, people in the industry have been freaked out by the enormous influence of metacritic scores on sales for years - so hit 'em where it hurts.

Truth. I've been there as well, and I'm an active participant with the community. I've had fans literally scream in my face due to their disappointment. The idea that a dev team is sitting around the office passing out cigars in celebration of their upcoming bonus checks is bogus. We don't bust 80 hour weeks and neglect our friends and families for a check, we do it because we care about the product we make.

The second paragraph is pretty key. I guarantee the "additional ending" discussion is being had, though I don't know if it'll gain any traction, it'll be talked about. Rest assured, though, someone wants it. Even if the devs had free reign to come in and say whatever they wanted, they'd be asking for a lynching and they know it. When you've worked with the general public, you realize quickly that sometimes, there's just nothing you can say. 

I guess all I can say is that I'd give anything for Bioware to go all out to regain the trust of it's fanbase by releasing a stand-alone DLC that just HAPPENS to include the sort of 100% RPG-style interaction of the first two Mass Effect games. I have to say, just adding new ending wont do it for me... I need ME1 and ME2 style interaction from the start of the game. I will not play another Bioware game like ME3 or DA2. I hate to say it, because UNTIL DA2 dropped, I had more faith in Bioware than any company in the world, regardless of the business they're in.

Anyways, I finished the game about an hour ago and, at this moment... well, Mass Effect 1 and 2 are quite literally my favorite games of all time, and I'm not sure if I'll ever be able to play them again. It feels like an overreaction, if feels like I'm taking it too far... but 137 hours of ME1, 235 hours of ME2, and it feels like it's been wasted right now. 

I wanted a triumphant ending. It was a game... one of the few... that truly portrayed mankind at its best. During the Renessance era in Europe, even up until the 1950s, popular art portrayed mankind as heroic and virtuous. Now days, it's like we can only point out our faults. It's nice to have a story that's inspring, that seeks to bring out the best in us rather than point out the worst. Mass Effect was well on its way to being something inspirational. The game was about sacrifice... but the end should have been about triumph. Shepard should have been the hero, not some synthetic space ghost we had no clue existed until this point. I'd have been satisfied if the Reapers were nothing more than evil bastards who used organics to reproduce and didn't touch the fledgling races out of a belief that they weren't "ripe" because they hadn't evolved enough to become reapers yet. That would have been PREDICTABLE, sure, but it would have made sense. 

Anyways, I guess I'll end the rant. To Bioware: you accomplished a lot in this game, technically. There's a lot to be proud of. Could you do me a favor? In the future, don't start with an RPG and evolve it backwards into a shooter. Stick with what you know and have been the best in the business at for 14 years.

This. Good input.

[FabricatedWookie]

Steaks and high fives for everyone

Is it bad that I think they should be thinking about taking a break? An offseason if you will.

"You shepard, are the avatar of victory" in regards to previous poster saying game should be about triumph. I was getting pumped up talking to the cast because they were all ready for victory.

Modifié par FabricatedWookie, 13 mars 2012 - 05:45 .

[hurricaneez2]

I just dont understand how anyone at Bioware thought they had a good ending here. These people must be smarter than that

[Torga_DW]

Lendorien wrote...

"Well, it sucks that people hate the end. Man, we feel bad about that.  But we can't exactly respond either. If only we'd been able to hold on to some of our original writing talent. Still, the game has sold millions of copies so far and they're still selling. Clearly the ending is not hurting sales.

This will blow over in a couple of weeks. Besides, EA will never greenlight us revising the end unless it's a paid DLC and that would just outrage fans further. No, let's just wait and see if this dies down. People are still going to buy DLC and our future games regardless of whether we fix it or not. This will blow over in a few weeks or a couple months and we'll move forward. In year most people won't even remember it."

This. The cycle is repeating, nothing has changed. They made fans angry with dragon age 2, now they're making fans angry with mass effect 3. Then the fuss will die down, and their next game will be released. Probably the same thing will happen then, too.

[ket_shee]

I think this is going through some peoples minds.

Perhaps actual discussion, troubleshooting and brainstorming for the more mature populace of Bioware offices. Perhaps.

[moteh]

Torga_DW wrote...

Lendorien wrote...

"Well, it sucks that people hate the end. Man, we feel bad about that.  But we can't exactly respond either. If only we'd been able to hold on to some of our original writing talent. Still, the game has sold millions of copies so far and they're still selling. Clearly the ending is not hurting sales.

This will blow over in a couple of weeks. Besides, EA will never greenlight us revising the end unless it's a paid DLC and that would just outrage fans further. No, let's just wait and see if this dies down. People are still going to buy DLC and our future games regardless of whether we fix it or not. This will blow over in a few weeks or a couple months and we'll move forward. In year most people won't even remember it."

This. The cycle is repeating, nothing has changed. They made fans angry with dragon age 2, now they're making fans angry with mass effect 3. Then the fuss will die down, and their next game will be released. Probably the same thing will happen then, too.

DA2 had a lot more problems than just the ending based on playing my friends Steam version.  There was no way that game was going to be saved without a total complete rewrite from the ground up in terms of layout, design, and pacing.  It did do somethings right too imho, and I saw elements of that in ME3 (characters having dialog with eachother and moving around the normany (not being in the same place all the time)).  ME2 had problems that were fixed in ME3 also as I see it so Bioware listens and it's unfair to say that they are completely ignoring fans now.  Heck, they are fixing and rereleasing Mass Effect: Deception because of fan feedback.

[Nefelius]

Ok, now is the time quickly! respond to them...no...no...ALL HAIL THE HYPNO FROG!

[Revan312]

This is how I see their reaction/thoughts on the subject

[HeavenStar]

EAadembroski wrote...

Sainta117 wrote...

I've actually sat through the launch of games I've worked on (2 x AAA sports titles) and I can tell you, we definitely were paying attention to both critical and user reviews and feedback. The problem is, how do you respond to the kind of crushing tidal wave of disappointment that is coming from the fanbase currently? And knowing that this is likely only the leading edge of the disappointment - the reason this is blowing up *now* is that players are just starting to finish the game. I can tell you, I made a lot of free time for this game, and I only finished it two days ago. Then I spent a day or so in shock, and then I got mad. I suspect this will only get louder.

That being said, there's almost nothing anyone at Bioware can say. Any statement about this would have to come from the top, and once that happens it becomes policy, so nobody's going to say *anything* until they get official word on what management intends to do (if anything). Management is going to keep their mouths shut as long as possible so they can see what the best direction is to jump. I would bet you green money that behind closed doors there are a lot of concerned phone calls going around. Keep it up, and you'll have an impact. And don't forget to make your opinions known at Metacritic. Privately, people in the industry have been freaked out by the enormous influence of metacritic scores on sales for years - so hit 'em where it hurts.

^ This. 

Truth. I've been there as well, and I'm an active participant with the community. I've had fans literally scream in my face due to their disappointment. The idea that a dev team is sitting around the office passing out cigars in celebration of their upcoming bonus checks is bogus. We don't bust 80 hour weeks and neglect our friends and families for a check, we do it because we care about the product we make.

The second paragraph is pretty key. I guarantee the "additional ending" discussion is being had, though I don't know if it'll gain any traction, it'll be talked about. Rest assured, though, someone wants it. Even if the devs had free reign to come in and say whatever they wanted, they'd be asking for a lynching and they know it. When you've worked with the general public, you realize quickly that sometimes, there's just nothing you can say. 

I guess all I can say is that I'd give anything for Bioware to go all out to regain the trust of it's fanbase by releasing a stand-alone DLC that just HAPPENS to include the sort of 100% RPG-style interaction of the first two Mass Effect games. I have to say, just adding new ending wont do it for me... I need ME1 and ME2 style interaction from the start of the game. I will not play another Bioware game like ME3 or DA2. I hate to say it, because UNTIL DA2 dropped, I had more faith in Bioware than any company in the world, regardless of the business they're in.

Anyways, I finished the game about an hour ago and, at this moment... well, Mass Effect 1 and 2 are quite literally my favorite games of all time, and I'm not sure if I'll ever be able to play them again. It feels like an overreaction, if feels like I'm taking it too far... but 137 hours of ME1, 235 hours of ME2, and it feels like it's been wasted right now. 

I wanted a triumphant ending. It was a game... one of the few... that truly portrayed mankind at its best. During the Renessance era in Europe, even up until the 1950s, popular art portrayed mankind as heroic and virtuous. Now days, it's like we can only point out our faults. It's nice to have a story that's inspring, that seeks to bring out the best in us rather than point out the worst. Mass Effect was well on its way to being something inspirational. The game was about sacrifice... but the end should have been about triumph. Shepard should have been the hero, not some synthetic space ghost we had no clue existed until this point. I'd have been satisfied if the Reapers were nothing more than evil bastards who used organics to reproduce and didn't touch the fledgling races out of a belief that they weren't "ripe" because they hadn't evolved enough to become reapers yet. That would have been PREDICTABLE, sure, but it would have made sense. 

Anyways, I guess I'll end the rant. To Bioware: you accomplished a lot in this game, technically. There's a lot to be proud of. Could you do me a favor? In the future, don't start with an RPG and evolve it backwards into a shooter. Stick with what you know and have been the best in the business at for 14 years.

[ArcticNova]

Teltaur wrote...

I like to have the image in my head of almost all the writers sitting around a desk completely dumbstruck and facepalming, with one running and jumping around, pointing while yelling "I TOLD YOU SO! I TOLD YOU THEY'D HATE IT!"

I pictured the same thing... Question is... will they fix it?

[nightshadeofvoid]

I am glad to see the views of the three posters who are also devs, they have insight do not dicount them. I dont think today was a good day for Bioware. As mad as I am I do believe there are people in Bioware going "we told you so". Unfortunatly Bioware is owned by a company with the reputation of not caring what there customers think or say. To be honest I dont think EA would green light any changes because Bioware's losses will not affect EA very much. If this debacle ruins Bioware then EA will just shut them down and shuffle people to other things. What I think is even worse is that some of EA's in house guys are seeing this and most likely cringing, but the corporate upper echalon does not care. They are in it for the profits and they have made them. I personally have liked Biowares approach to games but this ending of a fantastic franchise in such a ... subpar way is almost like someone came in at the end and said "all writers go home we have a new team to finish this. no dont leave your notes they dont need them, they will do it their way." It is a sad thought but I am seriously considering trashing all my Bioware titles and I actually liked sw:tor, but to have a company treat its cunstomers like this? It would get people fired in most every other buisness type out there.

[Worufu]

What I think is they're standing in front of a giant screen, smiling. Someone is showing the posts from the Indoctrination topics.
With www.youtube.com/watch this playing in the background.

[twhunter]

For those of you who may not have come across this yet take two minutes to read this. It has been getting a ton of attention and would make an incredible ending that would display all of your hard choices and give Shepard back a voice. WHICH IS ALL MOST PEOPLE ARE REALLY ASKING FOR. Best part is that BioWare might actually go for it since they wouldn't be required to rewrite EVERYTHING. Could it use a few adjustments, sure...but as a jumping off point....YES PLEASE!! It seriously can pull at the heart strings and make you FEEL something again, other than disappointment. Don't just take my word for it read it yourself....

http://arkis.deviant...25?moodonly=1#/

someone even started a thread on here in support of it:
http://social.biowar...index/9833130/1

I came across another thread that is "on fire" with a very similar concept just not in the script format that Arkis wrote, it includes a poll:
http://social.biowar...72/polls/29101/

Lastly, for those who haven't joined up yet and want to support this "movement" join up at:
http://www.facebook....ngToMassEffect3

~Proud #retakemasseffect supporter