7245 réponses à ce sujet

[Pappi]

What a lovely idea!

[Zaknaberrnon]

Kitsudragon wrote...

The hardest thing for anyone to do is suck it up and move on.

I speak from similar experience. I've GM'ed roleplaying games for several decades, now, and I've had times when I've either scripted together what I thought was a really fun experience, or a really epic combat event... And everyone looks at me when I drop it on them like I've suddenly grown two heads. They get upset, because I'm disregarding something they wanted, or I tried to shoehorn what was going on into something I wanted to do.

When this happens, the first instinct is to dig in the heels and force through it. After all, you get emotionally involved in what you created. And you truly believe you built something interesting.

The difference, I think, between me and a lot of what we've been hearing from Bioware, is that I've forced myself to step back and ask myself if my position was really more important than the whole game. If the story I was telling was that important to me, a screwed-up chapter that was alienating my players wasn't worth keeping going. Sometimes I had to take 5 while I rewrote a few things, or sometimes I was able to patch something together that used most of what I'd written up. But the key is to recognize that the whole story is more important than the one disagreement. They don't get up and walk out because you made a bad call. They'll respect you a hell of a lot more if you can accept that your vision wasn't as cool for your players as you thought it would be, and rewrite it to reflect what they wanted.

I think that's what Bioware has to do. They have to stop looking at the endgame furor, sit back, and consider the whole 3-game story they've been telling. Is that story more important than fighting to keep an ending your players aren't happy with? I'd say so. I'm biased, of course, but in this case, I'm one of the players who wants the GM to change the scene I'm very opposed to. I'm not going to storm off in a huff, if I think this can be resolved. And if it is resolved, I'm going to still be interested in any future games the GM wants to put together, because this one event is just that: It's a one-off. It's not like it's what this person is like all the time.

So that's my two cents' worth. If they haven't already, they should step back from the topic, and spend some time recalling the whole story. Is that more important than the fact that the players don't agree with the GM on what constitutes an "epic" ending? Again, I think that it is. That said, the key is to accept that the players and the GM have a disconnect that needs to be patched. Then fix it, and move on. There's plenty more story to tell, and what needs to be patched can be made epic.

<snip />

very interesting post, I find the players/GM analogy very accurate.
thanks for posting!

[Hearnishere123]

Blood Raptor Fleet reporting back in, sorry i was gone, what i miss? I am working my way through the threads so give me time to catch up. So I will post this after I catch up.

DrowVampyre wrote...

Fulgrim88 wrote...


That being said, I wholeheartedly agree that we shouldn't quote Churchill (nor Kirrahe). We should instead be quoting Ghandi, or maybe even Lincoln.

"I have a dream that my little blue children will one day live in a galaxy that will not be shaped by the color of starkid explosions, but by the content of my choices." 
Better?

XD lolz nice one

@Un
 :/ it is sad we stopped, i honestly think without something for us to do[other than hold the line] we will fall into chaos.

-next page-
; bashing the chairty, wild theorys, and slight signs of anger...
dang it why did i have to be right.

-10 pages later-
WTH GUYS! o.o Calm down... <.< I understand yall are all upset so am I, I was waiting to get my money in Apirl to donate since im broke atm. And now I will never get the chance, but dont turn back into beasts because of it.

-next page-
I say if people want to go donate somewhere they can, but we should not change the charity we started with even if we can not donate anymore "THIS YEAR" because we said we planned to do this "EVERY YEAR" wether MassEffect3 endings change or not. We can add links to other donateing sites that is fine, but we will not track the donations to any other chairty. <.< It just wouldn't be "HOLDING THE LINE" if we did.

-page 240-

@Drow
XD love the new banner!

-later because i stop counting because I missed alot-
XD Keep donateing to Child's Play without a money counter XD lolz Now that is a great idea. <.< >.> just dont let the media know lolz -sigh- v.v

-looks and sees im at 253-
XD well its good to know why they closed it down and that it was for their futrue protection and nothing to really do with us.
[side not] O:< when will this end? My eyes are tried of reading, I want to keep looking for MassEffect vids on youtube... 

-page 257-
-Sees a youtube link, watches then goes back to reading-

-10 pages later i give up and skim read-

-done reading-

[Fulgrim88]

Zaknaberrnon wrote...

Kitsudragon wrote...

The hardest thing for anyone to do is suck it up and move on.

I speak from similar experience. I've GM'ed roleplaying games for several decades, now, and I've had times when I've either scripted together what I thought was a really fun experience, or a really epic combat event... And everyone looks at me when I drop it on them like I've suddenly grown two heads. They get upset, because I'm disregarding something they wanted, or I tried to shoehorn what was going on into something I wanted to do.

When this happens, the first instinct is to dig in the heels and force through it. After all, you get emotionally involved in what you created. And you truly believe you built something interesting.

The difference, I think, between me and a lot of what we've been hearing from Bioware, is that I've forced myself to step back and ask myself if my position was really more important than the whole game. If the story I was telling was that important to me, a screwed-up chapter that was alienating my players wasn't worth keeping going. Sometimes I had to take 5 while I rewrote a few things, or sometimes I was able to patch something together that used most of what I'd written up. But the key is to recognize that the whole story is more important than the one disagreement. They don't get up and walk out because you made a bad call. They'll respect you a hell of a lot more if you can accept that your vision wasn't as cool for your players as you thought it would be, and rewrite it to reflect what they wanted.

I think that's what Bioware has to do. They have to stop looking at the endgame furor, sit back, and consider the whole 3-game story they've been telling. Is that story more important than fighting to keep an ending your players aren't happy with? I'd say so. I'm biased, of course, but in this case, I'm one of the players who wants the GM to change the scene I'm very opposed to. I'm not going to storm off in a huff, if I think this can be resolved. And if it is resolved, I'm going to still be interested in any future games the GM wants to put together, because this one event is just that: It's a one-off. It's not like it's what this person is like all the time.

So that's my two cents' worth. If they haven't already, they should step back from the topic, and spend some time recalling the whole story. Is that more important than the fact that the players don't agree with the GM on what constitutes an "epic" ending? Again, I think that it is. That said, the key is to accept that the players and the GM have a disconnect that needs to be patched. Then fix it, and move on. There's plenty more story to tell, and what needs to be patched can be made epic.

<snip />

very interesting post, I find the players/GM analogy very accurate.
thanks for posting!

I agree, it's a great analogy. I've found myself in similar situations (having a bit of GM time under my belt as well).

I think the most important thing here, is that the folks at Bioware realize that we are only making all this fuss because we love their story. And if they love it too (which I believe, heck which I'm certain they do), they would do good to take the aforementioned step back and look at the whole thing.
What made Mass Effect so great? What's the reason people love it.

When you got that nailed down, put in in the ending. And everything will be fine

[DrowVampyre]

Hearnishere123 wrote...

lotsa stuffs

Thanks! I'm glad you like it, and the little speech too.

[Hearnishere123]

DrowVampyre wrote...

Hearnishere123 wrote...

lotsa stuffs

Thanks! I'm glad you like it, and the little speech too.

Your welcome ^vv^ and thanks for everything you have helpped us do!

[SSVDisappoint]

Modifié par SSVDisappoint, 24 mars 2012 - 01:32 .

[txmn1016]

Glad that article got some conversation started. I think there are a lot of excellent points in there to consider. And it's always good to look at the problem from the other side.

I'm going to be MIA for the day, but keep those ideas coming (post them, or send them to me or Rosery). Also, I know I don't have to say this, but watch out for each other. Instigators are everywhere so just try to keep a cool head and help your friends keep their cool too. This has been a safe place to intelligently discuss our feelings about the endings. Let's keep it that way.

[txmn1016]

Ok, one more thing. I have to weigh in a bit on this article and its relation to a previous thread (something like, "You people are ruining conventional story telling by demanding a new ending"):

Nothing about the story of Mass Effect was ever conventional. Part of it, is because it's a video game. The very fact that you can add new content to a story after the fact (with DLC) makes this kind of story telling unconventional.
Does that make it any less artistic? No. Mass Effect is a work of art with many, many people having contributed to it. The very fact that it has so many authors and contributors also makes it an unconventional artistic work. So I don't think we can judge it by the same standards that we judge a book or a painting. Books and visual art have, typically, one or a few contributors. They are also rarely added onto after the fact to enhance the experience.
Finally, the player choice. The extreme extent to which the RPG element is utilized in this game takes this so far away from conventional story telling that it's impossible to make valid comparisons. My playthrough looks and plays completely different from my husbands. In the sense that (1) we chose different genders, (2) we chose different back stories, (3) we chose different classes, (4) we chose different attitudes, and (5) we made different choices about who would live and die. All of these choices combined resulted in 2 universes that looked drastically different. So when we both reached the end of the game and got essentially the same ending it was..odd, to say the least. It definitely doesn't make me want to go replay the game if I'm going to get the same ending no matter what.
And that's the fine line these people walk with player choice and artistic license. If you've been telling a story, but in a sense, letting the player make their own story--then suddenly take the choice away and force the player into an ending that makes them want to chuck themselves off a bridge, the player is obviously going to feel cheated.
So what's the solution? Well, like I said before, the very existence of DLC makes this sort of story telling unconventional. The power is still with BW, but at least they've got the option to reclaim the hearts of their most ardent fans.

Discuss! 

Modifié par txmn1016, 24 mars 2012 - 02:57 .

[snajones]

txmn1016 wrote...

Ok, one more thing. I have to weigh in a bit on this article and its relation to a previous thread (something like, "You people are ruining conventional story telling by demanding a new ending"):

Nothing about the story of Mass Effect was ever conventional. Part of it, is because it's a video game. The very fact that you can add new content to a story after the fact (with DLC) makes this kind of story telling unconventional.
Does that make it any less artistic? No. Mass Effect is a work of art with many, many people having contributed to it. The very fact that it has so many authors and contributors also makes it an unconventional artistic work. So I don't think we can judge it by the same standards that we judge a book or a painting. Books and visual art have, typically, one or a few contributors. They are also rarely added onto after the fact to enhance the experience.
Finally, the player choice. The extreme extent to which the RPG element is utilized in this game takes this so far away from conventional story telling that it's impossible to make valid comparisons. My playthrough looks and plays completely different from my husbands. In the sense that (1) we chose different genders, (2) we chose different back stories, (3) we chose different classes, (4) we chose different attitudes, and (5) we made different choices about who would live and die. All of these choices combined resulted in 2 universes that looked drastically different. So when we both reached the end of the game and got essentially the same ending it was..odd, to say the least. It definitely doesn't make me want to go replay the game if I'm going to get the same ending no matter what.
And that's the fine line these people walk with player choice and artistic license. If you've been telling a story, but in a sense, letting the player make their own story--then suddenly take the choice away and force the player into an ending that makes them want to chuck themselves off a bridge, the player is obviously going to feel cheated.
So what's the solution? Well, like I said before, the very existence of DLC makes this sort of story telling unconventional. The power is still with BW, but at least they've got the option to reclaim the hearts of their most ardent fans.

Discuss! 

I agree.

Part of the fault lies with BioWare themselves - making so many pre-game hype promises. Like the ridiculous claim where they said "We would never do an A, B, or C type ending..." which is basically what we got. (Tho, I still argue we only truly got ONE ending...)

The fault is - yes - having the previous 99% of the trilogy make all the choices matter. Then at the end chucking that concept out of the window. It makes me feel like the ending was rushed, lazy and attempting to wrap it up into a neat package so "future" Mass Effect games could ignore choices that were made in the first three.

I think, if they want future ME games, just do the brilliant thing they did with their Star Wars games. Have the new games be 10,000 years in the future or whatever...

Last point I want to make is - I agree that the ending totally DESTROYS replayability. I played 8 (or 9?) characters all the way through mass effect 1 an 2, and I have dozens more that never made it through both games completely. Why? Because I made different choices, played different "types" of characters - and I was so eager to see how those choices affected the "end game". Now - that replayability is ruined - playing "new" DLC - to what? Save more people before I destroy the universe?? is ruined.

I would love to see some numbers from origin on how much people log in and continue playing after finishing the ME3 play through the first time.

I still have a slight bit of hope though. That BioWare can see these mistakes and fix them. Not because I am whining and complaining - because they are a BUSINESS. And I am sure as a business they want to keep loyal customers happy and giving them money. That's all this will boil down to in the end.
They have to evaluate if the money spent on "fixing" the end of the game will be worth it - or if they move on - lose some customers and hope to gain new ones to replace that lost profit.

Hold the line!

[Rosery99]

Morning everyone,

I'm glad to see everyone is still here, holding the line though our numbers have shrunk a little bit sadly, I still see lots of familiar faces and names, many of which I am proud to call new friends.

I noticed someone up above say without a focus we will descend into chaos and that is a concern but one you can brush off you're shoulders my friend. Myself, Tx,UN,Drow,Snajones and SoHardCore are getting together on sunday and we will be discussing and choosing a new idea to organize and get people excited about! If you have any suggestions, outside a new charity someone can give you the finer points of my argument against that for the moment, then please feel free to PM myself or one of the others. We want something the entire community can get behind once again!

Returning to the Line,
~R

[SgtGlory]

checking in, off to do housework..

Holding the line!

Modifié par SgtGlory, 24 mars 2012 - 03:33 .

[HandsomeHobo]

Packing stuff before moving next weekend, but still holding the line!

[Torhagen]

Hold the line that Consumers voicing their Opinion works is shown for instance on Ubisoft they start to buckle ever more on its own DRM(with PR-Speak ofc)

www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-03-23-ubisoft-wants-to-offer-pc-gamers-so-much-value-the-need-for-drm-goes-away

Modifié par Torhagen, 24 mars 2012 - 03:52 .

[snajones]

We took pictures today in our Charity drive t-shirts - should be able to post them later tonight.

Hold the line!

[rocketboy90]

Guys, I played through one of my old school favorite games the other day. Cave Story. That game is SO old and though it doesnt have as many choices as mass effect, it has 3 COMPLETELY different endings (and not green red and blue)

[Nyila]

I dunno if you guys read that, just thought it was interesting.

Jessica Merizan wrote...

Hey guys,
I just wanted to clarify a few things.

1) The twitter account is my personal one. No one is paying me to tweet on it and considering how much people are trying to extrapolate from replies I make that are meant for certain people (Twitter operates in a way that it's assume that while replies are public, people don't see them on their feed unless they follow both individuals -- or unless they camp on someone's profile which is what people are currently doing on mine). There's not a script I'm following and I'm not being "told" anything by PR. PR actually has very little to do with this situation, but I doubt you will believe that.

2) I was speaking to a person who enjoyed the ending (which is very much a personal opinion that I respect just as I respect someone else's opinion that they did not like the endings or even that the endings ruined their ME experience. All opinions are valid.) and I indicated that people who like things do not talk about it enough. People took this to mean that I was indicating that people don't talk about things when they're happy or that word of mouth isn't discussing things. That was not my intention.

2A) Twitter is terrible about having forum like conversations but currently I'm finding that's how people are trying to use it. After sending thousands of tweets this week (no small feat, try it) yes I get fatigued and don't always say exactly what I mean. But it's worse when I know that everyone is camped out on my feed just waiting to pick apart something I've said and prove me to be a liar or the harbinger of hope. Neither of which I am. I am a community manager who is a trained anthropologist and I feel that at times like this having a dialogue is more important than ever. It would certainly be easier if I didn't say anything at all, but I don't think that's the right thing to do.

2B) My intention to that person was to say that more people need to vocalize their opinion, positive or negative. When we insulate ourselves in tight-knit communities, it's harder to see that most people aren't doing that. Not
the same most people however, just most people in different situations.
An example I used is the 90-9-1 principle or the 1% rule (which is all over the internet and I studied it during my master's coursework in media consumption at University College London, namedrop intentional as people have recently accused me of being unable to read and interpret statistics or data, something I'm very good at and pride myself on).

3) The above rule is quite simple. 90% of consumers will passively engage in the product through consumption (such as playing a video game). They might lurk on forums or read articles. 9% of these people will take it a step further and actively engage in discussions and talk. These are the people that you rely on for WOM sales (word of mouth). They'll "like" a post on Facebook, share it to their wall, reply to a forum thread, RT or reply to something on Twitter. Then you have people who take it one step further and create content based on the original product. These are your fan artists, cosplayers, and even as simple as someone who starts a forum thread or makes a youtube video.

3A) An example I gave of this on Twitter is 3 products that I enjoy: Dominos pizza, the television show The Venture Brothers, and the Mass Effect Franchise. While I spend an embarrassing amount of money on Dominos every month, I don't discuss my purchase online with my friends. I haven't "Liked" their page on Facebook and I'm not a member of their community. I'm still an important consumer and I vote with my wallet. However I'm in that 90% that Dominos is constantly trying to engage with pizza ordering widgets to share on my Facebook wall etc. But I'm not biting. On the other hand, I'm a much more vocal consumer of the Venture Brothers. I'm in the 9% there. I've been a member of several fan sites, tuned into their livestreams and donated money during their charity drives, I tweet quotes from the show and am involved in discussions with other fans I met online. And finally, long before I worked for BioWare, I was in the 1% of this community. Even though I didn't go on the forums much (other than lurk), I created costumes, spread my love of their games at conventions, actively participated in their facebook initiatives etc.

3B) This doesn't just apply to people who like something. This applies to consumption as a whole. The 9% vocal minority isn't a bunch of naysayers. It's literally just the vocal bunch out of the entire group. It includes people who like, dislike, and are neutral. The media has just latched onto "vocal minority" as if it's a bad thing. It's not. It's just the way consumption works. Go look at any Facebook page, specifically their "People Talking About This" (PTAT). We consider 10% a great number. 20% is off the charts. But it rarely goes above that. It's just the way things work.

4) Honestly, if you want people to communicate more, you have to stop ripping apart everything. I'm speaking in generals here, most people don't do this but we remember those people who do the most. I have devs who don't want to write blogs for me because they don't want to lovingly craft a nice post and then watch it get picked apart and analyzed to death. There have been countless times this week that I wanted to stop talking because people
were misinterpreting things I said such as my tweet in reply to one specific person that was taken out of context. One tweet that I made when I was tired and it was poorly worded. And seeing people rip it apart in the forums made me want to stop tweeting for good. Make my account private and just use my public one for generic information and boring updates. But I didn't because I know that it's awful when a few people ruin it for everyone.

I respect that even if I personally disagree with the end goal of RetakeME, their means to be heard are noble. Even if they have a demand, they aren't coming across as demanding. They try to be polite and fight stereotypes about fandom. And as their community manager, I'm advocating for their opinions to be heard. But this BioWare PR damage control stuff is ridiculous. How can we expect to have a conversation about this when people are slinging
around jargon that frankly none of our PR professionals have ever even heard of. You're making yourselves paranoid and rejecting anything we have to say. It's one thing to be skeptical (as a consumer, it's smart to be an informed buyer) but it's another thing to lead yourself to believe that someone is actively trying to pull the wool over your eyes. We aren't. I'm not. I'm losing sleep over this and regardless of what you may think I'm not getting paid to sit and type this out. And any PR person would tell you this entire post is a mistake to write and publish.

Thanks.

P.S. Since I'm trying to be informative, a disclaimer about "this is my personal Twitter. Opinions are my own."
don't actually hold up or keep someone out of hot water, so it's a waste of precious characters to have that in your description.

P.P.S. Yes, as someone previously mentioned we are actively monitoring how many people are finishing the game and comparing it to ME2 as a standard. This is the primary reason that we have held off on discussing the endings, for better or worse. You can expect fuller details later, but when I ask you to be patient it's not because I hate you or am scrambling to find the right words to say. I will tell you that I'm really encouraged by the feedback I'm getting and what I'm hearing from the team and I look forward to when that can be shared. Also, multiplayer numbers are a completely separate metric so you don't need to worry about us conflating the two.

Modifié par Nyila, 24 mars 2012 - 04:36 .

[leondes1]

Nyila wrote...

I dunno if you guys read that, just thought it was interesting.

Jessica Merizan wrote...

Hey guys,
I just wanted to clarify a few things.

1) The twitter account is my personal one. No one is paying me to tweet on it and considering how much people are trying to extrapolate from replies I make that are meant for certain people (Twitter operates in a way that it's assume that while replies are public, people don't see them on their feed unless they follow both individuals -- or unless they camp on someone's profile which is what people are currently doing on mine). There's not a script I'm following and I'm not being "told" anything by PR. PR actually has very little to do with this situation, but I doubt you will believe that.

2) I was speaking to a person who enjoyed the ending (which is very much a personal opinion that I respect just as I respect someone else's opinion that they did not like the endings or even that the endings ruined their ME experience. All opinions are valid.) and I indicated that people who like things do not talk about it enough. People took this to mean that I was indicating that people don't talk about things when they're happy or that word of mouth isn't discussing things. That was not my intention.

2A) Twitter is terrible about having forum like conversations but currently I'm finding that's how people are trying to use it. After sending thousands of tweets this week (no small feat, try it) yes I get fatigued and don't always say exactly what I mean. But it's worse when I know that everyone is camped out on my feed just waiting to pick apart something I've said and prove me to be a liar or the harbinger of hope. Neither of which I am. I am a community manager who is a trained anthropologist and I feel that at times like this having a dialogue is more important than ever. It would certainly be easier if I didn't say anything at all, but I don't think that's the right thing to do.

2B) My intention to that person was to say that more people need to vocalize their opinion, positive or negative. When we insulate ourselves in tight-knit communities, it's harder to see that most people aren't doing that. Not
the same most people however, just most people in different situations.
An example I used is the 90-9-1 principle or the 1% rule (which is all over the internet and I studied it during my master's coursework in media consumption at University College London, namedrop intentional as people have recently accused me of being unable to read and interpret statistics or data, something I'm very good at and pride myself on).

3) The above rule is quite simple. 90% of consumers will passively engage in the product through consumption (such as playing a video game). They might lurk on forums or read articles. 9% of these people will take it a step further and actively engage in discussions and talk. These are the people that you rely on for WOM sales (word of mouth). They'll "like" a post on Facebook, share it to their wall, reply to a forum thread, RT or reply to something on Twitter. Then you have people who take it one step further and create content based on the original product. These are your fan artists, cosplayers, and even as simple as someone who starts a forum thread or makes a youtube video.

3A) An example I gave of this on Twitter is 3 products that I enjoy: Dominos pizza, the television show The Venture Brothers, and the Mass Effect Franchise. While I spend an embarrassing amount of money on Dominos every month, I don't discuss my purchase online with my friends. I haven't "Liked" their page on Facebook and I'm not a member of their community. I'm still an important consumer and I vote with my wallet. However I'm in that 90% that Dominos is constantly trying to engage with pizza ordering widgets to share on my Facebook wall etc. But I'm not biting. On the other hand, I'm a much more vocal consumer of the Venture Brothers. I'm in the 9% there. I've been a member of several fan sites, tuned into their livestreams and donated money during their charity drives, I tweet quotes from the show and am involved in discussions with other fans I met online. And finally, long before I worked for BioWare, I was in the 1% of this community. Even though I didn't go on the forums much (other than lurk), I created costumes, spread my love of their games at conventions, actively participated in their facebook initiatives etc.

3B) This doesn't just apply to people who like something. This applies to consumption as a whole. The 9% vocal minority isn't a bunch of naysayers. It's literally just the vocal bunch out of the entire group. It includes people who like, dislike, and are neutral. The media has just latched onto "vocal minority" as if it's a bad thing. It's not. It's just the way consumption works. Go look at any Facebook page, specifically their "People Talking About This" (PTAT). We consider 10% a great number. 20% is off the charts. But it rarely goes above that. It's just the way things work.

4) Honestly, if you want people to communicate more, you have to stop ripping apart everything. I'm speaking in generals here, most people don't do this but we remember those people who do the most. I have devs who don't want to write blogs for me because they don't want to lovingly craft a nice post and then watch it get picked apart and analyzed to death. There have been countless times this week that I wanted to stop talking because people
were misinterpreting things I said such as my tweet in reply to one specific person that was taken out of context. One tweet that I made when I was tired and it was poorly worded. And seeing people rip it apart in the forums made me want to stop tweeting for good. Make my account private and just use my public one for generic information and boring updates. But I didn't because I know that it's awful when a few people ruin it for everyone.

I respect that even if I personally disagree with the end goal of RetakeME, their means to be heard are noble. Even if they have a demand, they aren't coming across as demanding. They try to be polite and fight stereotypes about fandom. And as their community manager, I'm advocating for their opinions to be heard. But this BioWare PR damage control stuff is ridiculous. How can we expect to have a conversation about this when people are slinging
around jargon that frankly none of our PR professionals have ever even heard of. You're making yourselves paranoid and rejecting anything we have to say. It's one thing to be skeptical (as a consumer, it's smart to be an informed buyer) but it's another thing to lead yourself to believe that someone is actively trying to pull the wool over your eyes. We aren't. I'm not. I'm losing sleep over this and regardless of what you may think I'm not getting paid to sit and type this out. And any PR person would tell you this entire post is a mistake to write and publish.

Thanks.

P.S. Since I'm trying to be informative, a disclaimer about "this is my personal Twitter. Opinions are my own."
don't actually hold up or keep someone out of hot water, so it's a waste of precious characters to have that in your description.

P.P.S. Yes, as someone previously mentioned we are actively monitoring how many people are finishing the game and comparing it to ME2 as a standard. This is the primary reason that we have held off on discussing the endings, for better or worse. You can expect fuller details later, but when I ask you to be patient it's not because I hate you or am scrambling to find the right words to say. I will tell you that I'm really encouraged by the feedback I'm getting and what I'm hearing from the team and I look forward to when that can be shared. Also, multiplayer numbers are a completely separate metric so you don't need to worry about us conflating the two.

Ah jessica, do really like her. Somehow I really do feel she is hinting at something big. 

However, until we hear anything SOLID. Hold the line. 

In all honestly, there will always be those who see this as more PR, its never come across that way at least to me. Not from her at least.

Btw....... I just slept 11 hours O.o lol

Morning folks:)

Modifié par leondes1, 24 mars 2012 - 04:53 .

[leondes1]

I must have missed this one

http://www.forbes.co...and-future-dlc/

[Nyila]

leondes1 wrote...

I must have missed this one

http://www.forbes.co...and-future-dlc/

I read their Facebook chat yesterday.

I don't know about DLC being their main concern though, hasn't Bioware always said, since the beginning, that they had no intention on adding any post-ending content? I thought the way they handled the ending was to open up to future games, not to more content in this one.

About DLC missions added into the game, I'm practically certain they were planning on doing an Omega DLC.

[die-yng]

Just read the article with the games writers and devs and I have to say, some of their reasoning is the most embarrasing BS I've read in along time.

I've said it  before and I'll say it how often it is needed. Creative or artistic license is no excuse for a failed ending and ME3's ending fails miserably in so many ways, that I'd be embarrassed to be responsible for it.
I write myself and if I ever cop out of a story in this way, I'd probably led my pencil rust away before I ever picked it uo again.

If Bioware had delivered what they promised, then they would have the right to refuse any changes, because of their artistic license. As it is now they took a lazy man's way out and fumbled together an ending that's faulty, illogical and contradicts the whole message of the series.

I don't see why all those writers in that article, arguing for Bioware not to end it, never even once take into consideration the quality of the ending or how it stands up to the promises made before hand.
Or maybe I do see it, if you take that into account, there is no way you can defend the don't change the ending stance.

Modifié par die-yng, 24 mars 2012 - 05:52 .

[leondes1]

Nyila wrote...

leondes1 wrote...

I must have missed this one

http://www.forbes.co...and-future-dlc/

I read their Facebook chat yesterday.

I don't know about DLC being their main concern though, hasn't Bioware always said, since the beginning, that they had no intention on adding any post-ending content? I thought the way they handled the ending was to open up to future games, not to more content in this one.

About DLC missions added into the game, I'm practically certain they were planning on doing an Omega DLC.

Just from the massive debate that came about, I think their intention on it is going to have to change even if they don't want it to. I would hope they would rather keep their fans over losing them. Call me crazy.

As for Omega, until the ending thing is dealt with, I figure that's going to be delayed. I know its cut content but as for how much was developed, no idea.

I believe the intention was not to add post ending content because shepard's story was over. Well........... after the ending........ maybe not :happy:

[leondes1]

die-yng wrote...

Just read the article with the games writers and devs and I have to say, some of their reasoning is the most embarrasing BS I've read in along time.

I've said it  before and I'll say it how often it is needed. Creative or artistic license is no excuse for a failed ending and ME3's ending fails miserably in so many ways, that I'd be embarrassed to be responsible for it.
I write myself and if I ever cop out of a story in this way, I'd probably led my pencil rust away before I ever picked it uo again.

If Bioware had delivered what they promised, then they would have the right to refuse any changes, because of their artistic license. As it is now they took a lazy man's way out and fumbled together an ending that's faulty, illogical and contradicts the whole message of the series.

I don't see why all those writers in that article, arguing for Bioware not to end it, never even once take into consideration the quality of the ending or how it stands up to the promises made before hand.
Or maybe I do see it, if you take that into account, there is no way you can defend the don't change the ending stance.

It, well to me, depends on what you believe in, and I suspose the art thing comes into it too. To me games are malleable art, period. I'm sure plenty of people disagree. To me DLC has only furthered my thinking on it. Maybe back in the day when you bought games it was more static art as that was the game, period. It was finished. Now, we got patches all the time and DLC content that changes all kinds of things within gaming. It's different then how it used to be.

Going to lunch gf picking me up. Be back later 

Actually I just thought of one other example. Skyrim, Benda allows for its own players to modify their "art" through mods. I can't even tell you how many texture replacers and mods I use in skyrim, its a ton. Does that hurt the game and destroy the value of their "art"? Nope, it only makes the game that much better. At least to me. I respect them as Todd was really one of the first to come out after fallout 3 and just say hey, we messed up we shouldn't have done that. That takes courage, and what did it do, it made fallout 3 more popular and they gained more respect.

Modifié par leondes1, 24 mars 2012 - 06:02 .

[die-yng]

To me the longer that takes the more taxing it all becomes.
There is no board, no comment section anywhere to be found that discusses mass effect, were the majority of users support the ending. Here in the forum it's maybe one in twenty people who likes the ending or is satisfied by it.

Why is there even still a discussion about this?

Why can't Bioware simply accept that their ending failed for most of their fanbase?

If even 20% of how Bioware talks about the relation with their fans and about the interaction with the fans were true, then they wouldn't have any other choice but to add more endings.

For me, it's slowly becoming more about the position Bioware takes in this discussion than the frustration about the ending itself.

I'm sorry, but if this goes on for much longer than I'll simply pack my bags and leave and never want to see anything made by Biioware anymore.
This has been my favorite games developer ever since Kotor and Neverwinter Nights and slowly this whole affair starts to taint everything positive I ever connected with them.
I don't want this to happen, I want to be able to continue to like both the studio and it's games, but this... this is really getting to me.

[leondes1]

die-yng wrote...

To me the longer that takes the more taxing it all becomes.
There is no board, no comment section anywhere to be found that discusses mass effect, were the majority of users support the ending. Here in the forum it's maybe one in twenty people who likes the ending or is satisfied by it.

Why is there even still a discussion about this?

Why can't Bioware simply accept that their ending failed for most of their fanbase?

If even 20% of how Bioware talks about the relation with their fans and about the interaction with the fans were true, then they wouldn't have any other choice but to add more endings.

For me, it's slowly becoming more about the position Bioware takes in this discussion than the frustration about the ending itself.

I'm sorry, but if this goes on for much longer than I'll simply pack my bags and leave and never want to see anything made by Biioware anymore.
This has been my favorite games developer ever since Kotor and Neverwinter Nights and slowly this whole affair starts to taint everything positive I ever connected with them.
I don't want this to happen, I want to be able to continue to like both the studio and it's games, but this... this is really getting to me.

Why can't Bioware simply accept that their ending failed for most of their fanbase? 

(Money, plus future sales. It's a very thin line to walk, you have to do it right or it will be a total disaster)

For me, it's slowly becoming more about the position Bioware takes in this discussion than the frustration about the ending itself.

(This is true, it bothers me personally as well, though a few of them, such as jessica seem to hint at more, still its nothing concrete. That could be because they are hiding something or they simply arnt sure how to address this so that people will be happy. It's almost a no win.)

No one wanted this to happen I'm sure. I still have hope, but I need something solid to go by. I really feel they didn't understand just how polorizing the "ending" would be.

I'll add one more thing. It's not just the ending, its going back to Earth itself. Yes, as soon as your hit by the beam it goes to hell. However, even before that, I expected ya know, maybe to see some massive ground fighting, krogan charging, whole units, rachni crawling on reapers, maybe some turians and asari holding the line?  I don't know...my expecations maybe high but after what they did in the ENTIRE game, it doesn't seem unreasonable to me. It's like the whole earth thing was kinda botched honestly, just my opinion on it. 

Modifié par leondes1, 24 mars 2012 - 07:35 .