7245 réponses à ce sujet

[Nyila]

die-yng wrote...

Why can't Bioware simply accept that their ending failed for most of their fanbase?

They won't, they can't. They will defend their work, no matter what, and once they release the new content they'll probably just say "There you go, now shut up!"

The only time I have ever seen them apologize was for that really crappy book, Mass Effect Deception www.amazon.com/Mass-Effect-Deception-William-Dietz/dp/0345520734/ref=sr_1_4 I guess they intend to have it rewritten or something like that.

For the game ending, eventually, fans will forget what happened, and everything will just get back to normal. I was never profoundly upset at DA2, I didn't think it was an outstanding game, I am upset about ME3, but I have difficulty seeing myself never buying a Bioware game again (unless all they ever do is C&C and MMORPGs) because they are one of the few companies left that still make single-player RPGs, and those are really the only games I like to play.

I don't know how long it's gonna take for them to come up with a proper ending, and I don't really feel like bashing on them anymore since they seem to be doing something to correct their mistake. If it takes a few months, well, in the meantime I'll be happy to play BG1 & 2 Enhanced Edition when it comes out this summer. And I'm thoroughly ecstatic that their long term goal is BG3, because I've been waiting for BG3 for more than 10 years!

baldursgate.com/

Modifié par Nyila, 24 mars 2012 - 06:19 .

[die-yng]

Nyila wrote...

die-yng wrote...

Why can't Bioware simply accept that their ending failed for most of their fanbase?

They won't, they can't. They will defend their work, no matter what, and once they release the new content they'll probably just say "There you go, now shut up!"

The only time I have ever seen them apologize was for that really crappy book, Mass Effect Deception www.amazon.com/Mass-Effect-Deception-William-Dietz/dp/0345520734/ref=sr_1_4 I guess they intend to have it rewritten or something like that.

For the game ending, eventually, fans will forget what happened, and everything will just get back to normal. I was never profoundly upset at DA2, I didn't think it was an outstanding game, I am upset about ME3, but I have difficulty seeing myself never buying a Bioware game again (unless all they ever do is C&C and MMORPGs) because they are one of the few companies left that still make single-player RPGs, and those are really the only games I like to play.

I don't know how long it's gonna take for them to come up with a proper ending, and I don't really feel like bashing on them anymore since they seem to be doing something to correct their mistake. If it takes a few months, well, in the meantime I'll be happy to play BG1 & 2 Enhanced Edition when it comes out this summer. And I'm thoroughly ecstatic that their long term goal is BG3, because I've been waiting for BG3 for more than 10 years!

baldursgate.com/

I will never forget this and as I said, it becomes increasingly more and more about how BW deals with it and not my problems with the ending anymore.
This is slowly ruining everything connected to gaming.

I'm like you, except for games like Prince of Persia, I only like sp-rpg's, but I can't overlook what is happening right now.

At first I could at least continue to play Dragon Age, but even that is becoming more and more a moot effort.

Am I strange, maybe. It's not something that I want to happen, it just does.

[Melicamp]

Nyila wrote...

I don't know how long it's gonna take for them to come up with a proper ending, and I don't really feel like bashing on them anymore since they seem to be doing something to correct their mistake. If it takes a few months, well, in the meantime I'll be happy to play BG1 & 2 Enhanced Edition when it comes out this summer. And I'm thoroughly ecstatic that their long term goal is BG3, because I've been waiting for BG3 for more than 10 years!

baldursgate.com/

I'm feeling the same right now.

I've been an avid fan of everything they've done since BG1 (ridiculously excited about Enhanced!), but recently they've made some really annoying design decisions. DA2 had repetitive combat and maps, TOR is an MMO (I play BioWare games for their stories, and having played TOR there's too much filler - I lose interest because the pacing is way off), and now the ME3 endings.

That said, despite the fact that the ME3 endings have affected me far more than anything else, the quality of the rest of ME3 fills me with a great deal of hope - BioWare are still at heart the best storytellers in gaming, capable now of near perfection after so many iterations in which to hone their craft.

While I'm upset that they kinda ruined at the last hurdle what is still for me their best game to date, I know that somewhere in the near future they'll release another ridiculously good story. When they do I'll definitely be romancing the hell out of their Viconia/Silk Fox/Jack/Morrigan character or their Aerie/Leliana/Merrill/Liara character, whichever's hotter.

But not their Jaheira character. Too bossy.

[die-yng]

Oh, my origin id should be:

dump_the_ending

In case that doesn't work, it might still be the old one (because the change doesn't seem to take so far).

dieter_nagy

I just send out a few friends request for possible MP hook-ups.

Modifié par die-yng, 24 mars 2012 - 07:04 .

[miekojn]

Still holding the line, though I hope there's going to be some action soon.
I'm really proud of what we achieved together for the charity and I understand why it had to end. It made us feel happy and strong. But now there is nothing for us to really hold on to, to feel proud to be doing. We need something that unites us again.
A few days ago reading this forum was about the only thing I did the whole day after work. Now I find myself only checking for a few minutes a day, barely posting anything. The rest of the day I'm playing Solitaire with videogame soundtracks as background music... Maybe I'm just tired.

[Nyila]

die-yng wrote...

I will never forget this and as I said, it becomes increasingly more and more about how BW deals with it and not my problems with the ending anymore.
This is slowly ruining everything connected to gaming.

I'm like you, except for games like Prince of Persia, I only like sp-rpg's, but I can't overlook what is happening right now.

At first I could at least continue to play Dragon Age, but even that is becoming more and more a moot effort.

Am I strange, maybe. It's not something that I want to happen, it just does.

No I understand what you mean. It's difficult to forgive and forget when it comes to companies because it feels like they are taking us customers for granted. But, even though I don't know squat about who is really at fault in all this, I tend to blame EA more than I blame Bioware. And I know Bioware are burying their heads in the sand right now, but I'm pretty sure it feels crappy to receive such bad feedback from your fans and may take some time to adjust to.

When I was a kid, I'd turn on my Sega Megadrive to play James Pond 2, the Electronic Arts logo would come on the screen. That's who they used to be, game makers. And then they became something else, a company motivated solely by greed. While I played Battlefield 2142 years ago, people constantly complained about how EA was killing Dice. Pretty much the same thing is heard about Maxis (they make the Sims) and a lot of financial/business magazines talk about how EA are handling things in the world of the entertainment industry. Just to be clear, I'm not insulting EA in any way, I'm just giving my opinion. EA gives companies like Bioware budget and time constraints, which puts pressure on them and forces them to make decisions on which content to drop when they run out of resources. LucasArts does the same thing.

Blizzard however never gives a release date for their games until they know for sure it's gonna be finished by then. They're still pretty darn greedy, but at least, they watch their backs to avoid fan discontent. That's one thing companies like EA forget a little too often: fans are consumers too, keeping us happy is the only way they can sell their DLC. A lot of people on this forum (including me) have stated that they bought every piece of crap DLC that was thrown their way because they love the games and want to support the company. That might change if they don't handle this situation properly.

I work in a dental laboratory and my customer is the person who feeds me, if a dentist tells me my work is crap and he's leaving, then I'll lose my income. And making crowns is considered artistic, but if it's not what the dentist or patient wants, you can be damn sure I'll be working all night long to fix my mistake. Losing one customer can be incredibly devastating. Big companies just lose that kind of perspective.

Anyway, sorry for the wall of text..

[leondes1]

"I work in a dental laboratory and my customer is the person who feeds me, if a dentist tells me my work is crap and he's leaving, then I'll lose my income. And making crowns is considered artistic, but if it's not what the dentist or patient wants, you can be damn sure I'll be working all night long to fix my mistake. Losing one customer can be incredibly devastating. Big companies just lose that kind of perspective."

Very good point Nyila

[Nyila]

Melicamp wrote...

That said, despite the fact that the ME3 endings have affected me far more than anything else, the quality of the rest of ME3 fills me with a great deal of hope - BioWare are still at heart the best storytellers in gaming, capable now of near perfection after so many iterations in which to hone their craft.

While I'm upset that they kinda ruined at the last hurdle what is still for me their best game to date, I know that somewhere in the near future they'll release another ridiculously good story. When they do I'll definitely be romancing the hell out of their Viconia/Silk Fox/Jack/Morrigan character or their Aerie/Leliana/Merrill/Liara character, whichever's hotter.

But not their Jaheira character. Too bossy.

I feel that way as well, they are still very good at story-telling and I have hope that if they are taking this situation as seriously as they should be, they'll release some quality content.

Obsidian are very good at story-telling as well, and they are an example of what happens when big companies like LucasArts put pressure. Great content gets cut out of the games.


Jaheira had a very confusing romance, I still haven't figured it out.. :happy:

[Nyila]

@Leo: And trust me, dentists don't send kind words when they don't like the products we send them. One day, a colleague received a note from a dentist that said "Your crowns look like bird turds." I laughed a whole lot, but damn I'm sure it can't have felt good to be in her shoes. Instead of being humbled and accept that maybe she slacked and should do better, her reaction was complete and utter denial. The situation with Bioware reminds me of her..

Why should unhappy EA and Bioware customers not be allowed to complain, or at least express their dissatisfaction in a civil manner? Would they prefer it if we said nothing and quietly just stopped buying their products in the future? The feedback (positive or negative) is the only thing that can drive a (smaller) company forward. Of course I'm not talking about companies like Walmart here, who don't really rely on our satisfaction to continue thriving.

I'm being way too serious today, it's scaring me. I need something funny..

Modifié par Nyila, 24 mars 2012 - 08:03 .

[leondes1]

Funny eh, I didn't even know about this.

Watch first part of the video

[DrowVampyre]

There's a very simple solution for those of you who will continue to buy their games if they don't fix the ending (provided you're console gamers anyway) - buy used. You still get to play the games, and you still get to continue to show your dissatisfaction. Win-win! Except for Bioware. but do you really want them to win anymore if they don't fix this?

[Crocmon]

To be totally honest, I'm starting to get the feel that they're going to release a half-baked 'closure paragraph' add-on, put a price tag on it, then just ignore us afterwards and declaring "We gave them what they want."

Far too many people are complaining and saying that they'd prefer Closure over the endings be rehauled to not have as many plotholes. If these 'we just want closure arguments' become too popular then Bioware will just assume they can bend us over a table and give us text quips.

Grotesque (almost Carabaret) metaphors aside, we can't just ask for Closure. These endings were atrociously bad writing, and we can't give them an easy way out or they'll take it and then demand we stop harassing them.

Hold the Line. To use another line of theirs, "We can give [EA-BIOWARE] no quarter!"

[Melicamp]

DrowVampyre wrote...

There's a very simple solution for those of you who will continue to buy their games if they don't fix the ending (provided you're console gamers anyway) - buy used. You still get to play the games, and you still get to continue to show your dissatisfaction. Win-win! Except for Bioware. but do you really want them to win anymore if they don't fix this?

I'm a PC gamer. 

I'll just have to wait till there's an Origin equivalent of one of those crazy 60% off Steam sales. I highly doubt EA would ever do that though...

[Rosery99]

No ladies and gentlemen, you don't need to wait for discount sales or buy used because quite frankly if you're serious about this, you won't quiet down until they give us what we want. If they give us little text blurbs then we once again raise a hellish storm of civil protest for them to weather. If they try to ignore us we simply become louder, perhaps moving on to live protests outside there studio's. We shall show them that we are dissapointed if they decided to try and slink around this with some lazy ass solution. For now I am content to wait and find new intiatives for the Movement to take to make our voice heard. They have already said they will make an offical announcement at PAX on the Sixth of april, so now we wait and gather more support.

[Clayless]

So this stopped and they had to make new rules because a high number of people who donated demanded their money back?

Way to go retake.

[leondes1]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

So this stopped and they had to make new rules because a high number of people who donated demanded their money back?

Way to go retake.

That's not at all what happened. Go read any article on it.

If your trying to troll, leave now, only warning.

[snajones]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

So this stopped and they had to make new rules because a high number of people who donated demanded their money back?

Way to go retake.

You can do some research if you like, but that is not what happened.

Short story -

We had the charity drive set to go till April 11.
Child's Play - due to a large amount of hate mail - asked us politely to stop.
We resepcted that request, set the donation "goal" to 80,000$, hit that goal in an hour or so and the drive ended.

If you want more details, yes go read some articles about it.
if anything - the drive was stopped because "anti-retakers" sent hate mail to a children's charity.

Way to go "non-retakers".

Hold the line.

[Rosery99]

Don't respond to people like him, in fact don't respond to ANYTHING negate, I know that sounds close minded but this is a thread for our cause. Filling it with pointless arguments that will not change anyones mind is utterly pointless, focus on the positive, focus on keeping the movement alive and energized.

Holding The Line,
~R

[Abirn]

[spam removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 24 mars 2012 - 11:55 .

[Clayless]

Reading his statement on it, it mentions a high number of people asking for thier money back, and that they had to change the rules because of everything this retake movement has caused, and this has never happened in the 10 years of this charity.

But I guess you could ignore the high number of people demanding their money back once they realised the money was going to sick kids and not the ending of ME3 part if it helps you.

[Mara281]

miekojn wrote...

Still holding the line, though I hope there's going to be some action soon.
I'm really proud of what we achieved together for the charity and I understand why it had to end. It made us feel happy and strong. But now there is nothing for us to really hold on to, to feel proud to be doing. We need something that unites us again. 

This here. I understand why the Child's Play did what they did, and respect them for making that tough decision. There's no reason to not still donate directly to the Child's Play cause. While I understand people like a united front and a counter to see the progress made, I believe people can still get a great sense of accomplishment through donating even without the ChipIn. It's harder to donate anonymously because it doesn't give us the tracking we'd like to see on our progress, but it helps relieve the sting of feeling helpless by helping others.

For me it wasn't that I was donating to get a better ending or to show BW that people who want a better ending aren't 'whiners'. What I took away was that if BW didn't change the endings, at least the Retake Mass Effect Movement did something good. The ChipIn thing was just a way to personalize my donation. Like when I donate to the MS Society because I know people who have MS, or to my local food drive because I have friends who've lost jobs. I read that some people did/said some shameful things, but I really hope they were in the minority. 

I hope most of us were proud to donate to a good cause because it made us feel good to take our hurt/angry/disappointed feelings and turn them into something positive. And we should all be proud seeing that incredible number, over $80,000 donated to kids in hospitals. Really, that's such a victory right there.

Still holding the line Still hoping.

Modifié par Mara281, 24 mars 2012 - 08:56 .

[HandsomeHobo]

Crocmon wrote...

To be totally honest, I'm starting to get the feel that they're going to release a half-baked 'closure paragraph' add-on, put a price tag on it, then just ignore us afterwards and declaring "We gave them what they want."

Far too many people are complaining and saying that they'd prefer Closure over the endings be rehauled to not have as many plotholes. If these 'we just want closure arguments' become too popular then Bioware will just assume they can bend us over a table and give us text quips.

Grotesque (almost Carabaret) metaphors aside, we can't just ask for Closure. These endings were atrociously bad writing, and we can't give them an easy way out or they'll take it and then demand we stop harassing them.

Hold the Line. To use another line of theirs, "We can give [EA-BIOWARE] no quarter!"

QFT. "Closure" ain't all you need to provide when you still have plot holes, diablous ex machina, and space magic....

[leondes1]

If anyone wants to play mp, let me know, we are online now.

[snajones]

ok... let me see if I can do this correctly... (first time trying to link images...)

Oh and THANKS to SgtGlory for the designs

Edit: Removing the pics now that SgtGlory got a chance to see them.

Holding the line!

Modifié par snajones, 25 mars 2012 - 01:20 .

[Kitsudragon]

Leondes1, what's your Origin ID? I tried the obvious, and nothing happened.