Hard to feel hopeful, but I'm not about to give in.
Gonna vent my frustration in Multiplayer, until I can manage to play the game itself again.
I'm off to bed, read you people tomorrow.
Retake Mass Effect - Petition and Child's Play Donation Drive
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UniqueName001
, mars 13 2012 02:32
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#7152
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 12:33
leondes1
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die-yng wrote...
Hard to feel hopeful, but I'm not about to give in.
Gonna vent my frustration in Multiplayer, until I can manage to play the game itself again.
I'm off to bed, read you people tomorrow.
I know it can be really hard, feel free to invite me anytime. I do enjoy blasting things.
#7153
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 01:24
UlricKerensky
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Bit of motto. Feeling down.
Modifié par UlricKerensky, 26 mars 2012 - 01:25 .
#7154
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 02:00
txmn1016
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UlricKerensky wrote...
Bit of motto. Feeling down.
Hey! Nice to see your face around here (so to speak).
Even that video made me a little sad.
So I watched this afterward:
www.youtube.com/watch
One of my favorite character vids. Also reminded me of just how absolutely f*cking epic ME2 was. I'll definitely be playing that again before I'll play ME3. Ugh, the end was so awesome. Why couldn't we get that in ME3?
#7156
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 03:06
TheOptimist
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Glad atleast some media folks are clarifying that. Always found it hard to believe that there was any significant number of people who thought the money was going anywhere other than the Child's Play charity.txmn1016 wrote...
article on the charity
#7157
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 01:28
Melicamp
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Turns out that even the established art community is taking notice of us:
Here is an excellent (and balanced) article looking at this debate from the view of an Art Historian. For me, it outlines well why BioWare have no right to hide behind the fact games are art or cite their "artistic integrity". In short: Even if you take the stance that BioWare is producing art and not a product, we are not art collectors, we are their patrons.
Without our financial input BioWare would be unable to make their games. Period. In the case of ME3, having funded their last two installments, and having been given a degree of influence over the development process (admitted in quotes by devs themselves), we expected what we were promised by the artists we paid (in preorders, previous purchases, and promissory). When they failed to deliver, was it any surprise we were upset?
http://www.3pipe.net...entury-new.html
The comments are well worth reading, especially this response from the author:
Here is an excellent (and balanced) article looking at this debate from the view of an Art Historian. For me, it outlines well why BioWare have no right to hide behind the fact games are art or cite their "artistic integrity". In short: Even if you take the stance that BioWare is producing art and not a product, we are not art collectors, we are their patrons.
Without our financial input BioWare would be unable to make their games. Period. In the case of ME3, having funded their last two installments, and having been given a degree of influence over the development process (admitted in quotes by devs themselves), we expected what we were promised by the artists we paid (in preorders, previous purchases, and promissory). When they failed to deliver, was it any surprise we were upset?
http://www.3pipe.net...entury-new.html
The comments are well worth reading, especially this response from the author:
Is this really a focus group approach? A large number of consumers have registered discontent with a product that would not have been possible without their patronage. This is not a random sampling of persons (who often comprise focus groups) but active supporters of the company.
Even in those among us who are sympathetic to the idea of artistic integrity, there is a point where me must acquiesce that art is in the genesis of a concept - once the idea is put into action as a palpable entity, it will immediately take on a new group of stakeholders that may influence its final form, for better or worse.
That ME has managed to complete a three game cycle and hold onto some of its RPG elements is a feat in itself, even with all the trimming that occurred along the way. It is not a pure RPG, nor a pure shooter, indicative of the influence of its diverse, and extremely large audience.
No matter what BioWare decides, it is inevitable that not everyone is going to be happy. Art based on influence from forces that shape it is not easily describable in terms of failure. eg. Where would Raphael be without Julius II and the Papal Treasury? Is the Stanza della Segnatura a failure?! The "School of Athens" was likely mapped for Raphael in very specific terms, he was not sufficiently versed in Philosophy to populate it himself. His invention came in the design and implementation - but without his patrons and advisors, that work would not be the creation we marvel at now.
Modifié par Melicamp, 26 mars 2012 - 01:38 .
#7158
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 01:59
SgtGlory
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From The Agony and the Ecstasy:
"For what is an artist in this world but a servant ... Before we even begin to work, to feed this craving of ours, we must find a patron."
Harsh, but in my own experience, true.
Edit: Incidently, that's Raphael talking in that quote hehe
"For what is an artist in this world but a servant ... Before we even begin to work, to feed this craving of ours, we must find a patron."
Harsh, but in my own experience, true.
Edit: Incidently, that's Raphael talking in that quote hehe
Modifié par SgtGlory, 26 mars 2012 - 02:01 .
#7159
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 02:47
txmn1016
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Melicamp wrote...
Turns out that even the established art community is taking notice of us:
Here is an excellent (and balanced) article looking at this debate from the view of an Art Historian. For me, it outlines well why BioWare have no right to hide behind the fact games are art or cite their "artistic integrity". In short: Even if you take the stance that BioWare is producing art and not a product, we are not art collectors, we are their patrons.
Without our financial input BioWare would be unable to make their games. Period. In the case of ME3, having funded their last two installments, and having been given a degree of influence over the development process (admitted in quotes by devs themselves), we expected what we were promised by the artists we paid (in preorders, previous purchases, and promissory). When they failed to deliver, was it any surprise we were upset?
http://www.3pipe.net...entury-new.html
The comments are well worth reading, especially this response from the author:Is this really a focus group approach? A large number of consumers have registered discontent with a product that would not have been possible without their patronage. This is not a random sampling of persons (who often comprise focus groups) but active supporters of the company.
Even in those among us who are sympathetic to the idea of artistic integrity, there is a point where me must acquiesce that art is in the genesis of a concept - once the idea is put into action as a palpable entity, it will immediately take on a new group of stakeholders that may influence its final form, for better or worse.
That ME has managed to complete a three game cycle and hold onto some of its RPG elements is a feat in itself, even with all the trimming that occurred along the way. It is not a pure RPG, nor a pure shooter, indicative of the influence of its diverse, and extremely large audience.
No matter what BioWare decides, it is inevitable that not everyone is going to be happy. Art based on influence from forces that shape it is not easily describable in terms of failure. eg. Where would Raphael be without Julius II and the Papal Treasury? Is the Stanza della Segnatura a failure?! The "School of Athens" was likely mapped for Raphael in very specific terms, he was not sufficiently versed in Philosophy to populate it himself. His invention came in the design and implementation - but without his patrons and advisors, that work would not be the creation we marvel at now.
Now that was a great read! Love to see this kind of stuff surrounding ME.
#7160
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 03:22
Rosery99
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Morning Everyone,
I had wanted to get this out last night but my family intervened and I was away from my PC until almost midnight, at which point I was so brain dead I couldn't write anymore. So that being said I have an announcement to make.
I know everyone is feeling a bit depressed and unfocused after the completion of the charity drive and it was a completion, not a shut down because we still raised enough money to help a lot of kids and get a lot of good media attention, more than enough both ways to combat the crap people were saying about us. I understand the need for focus and so that is why we've come up with a way for you to channel this waiting angst we are all feeling, into something positive,useful and enjoyable.
I have been in recent contact with a Miss Graham over on Deviant Art who owns and runs the RetakeME3 group over there, she has agreed to support us in this new intiative which, I have danced around long enough. We have decided to hold an art contest but before you go "But I can't draw..." it's not just drawing there's four unique contest type intiatives were going for. There's art,song lyrics,posters and then writing, each one has it's own submission rules that I will be outlining below.
Art: The rules of the art contest are quite simple, it has to be about Mass Effect 3, a scene that touched you, a character you loved and adored, perhaps your Shepard and his/her LI, the sky really is the limit here. However for this we are not permitting new idea ending pictures, this is to focus that negativity and angst into positive emotions. You are however welcome to add tag-lines such as "This is why we fight" or something netrual, remember this is being hosted and run under the d-art Retake tag, people will know. AS always try to make it tasteful but I trust you all.
Writing: This is actually very much the same as above except I guess with writing you'd do entire scenes and it doesn't have to be from the game, maybe...what your Shepard did in his/her time off, the favorite way they spent travel time, I dunno I suck at all four of these haha! No bashing Bioware or EA, no bashing the game in general. We aren't spoiled, we are civilized.
Posters: This one does have to do directly with the endings, I am sure you've seen people like Melicamp and Drowvaympyre making gorgeous Retake the ending posters, well this is your chance to get in on the action! Drawn,Photoshopped. Doesn't matter how it's made. Only major rule is that it must be with one of of the ME3 characters, as all of our movement posters have been, (Kirrahe,Shepard,Anderson, etc etc.)
Song Lyrics: Well this is seems pretty straight forward but any questions feel forward to PM me. You're writing song lyrics about the game and movement. We've seen it done many times with Kirrahe's speech, so perhaps you have an idea for it, go for it!
All submissions will be hosted on Deviant Art, which I will get you a link for just as soon as Miss Graham gets back to me, I did send her an e-mail yesterday but it was very late I doubt she's seen it yet. That being said I know everyone was hoping for some big undertaking to catch Bioware's eye but we did that, now we must wait for the response. The next major move is in Bioware's court, we must simply be patient and Hold The Line! We mustn't falter or become weary and give up, this is about keeping focus and if they try to ignore us at Pax, I assure you we have some very creative ideas to get there attention.
However for what it's worth I am sorry the idea isn't more grandiose. I still urge people to do particpate though. Plus this will bring attention from the Deviant Art community, many of whom are ME fans and whom are dissapointed with this ending, they not even know about us yet.
Hold The Line, Comrades.
~R
I had wanted to get this out last night but my family intervened and I was away from my PC until almost midnight, at which point I was so brain dead I couldn't write anymore. So that being said I have an announcement to make.
I know everyone is feeling a bit depressed and unfocused after the completion of the charity drive and it was a completion, not a shut down because we still raised enough money to help a lot of kids and get a lot of good media attention, more than enough both ways to combat the crap people were saying about us. I understand the need for focus and so that is why we've come up with a way for you to channel this waiting angst we are all feeling, into something positive,useful and enjoyable.
I have been in recent contact with a Miss Graham over on Deviant Art who owns and runs the RetakeME3 group over there, she has agreed to support us in this new intiative which, I have danced around long enough. We have decided to hold an art contest but before you go "But I can't draw..." it's not just drawing there's four unique contest type intiatives were going for. There's art,song lyrics,posters and then writing, each one has it's own submission rules that I will be outlining below.
Art: The rules of the art contest are quite simple, it has to be about Mass Effect 3, a scene that touched you, a character you loved and adored, perhaps your Shepard and his/her LI, the sky really is the limit here. However for this we are not permitting new idea ending pictures, this is to focus that negativity and angst into positive emotions. You are however welcome to add tag-lines such as "This is why we fight" or something netrual, remember this is being hosted and run under the d-art Retake tag, people will know. AS always try to make it tasteful but I trust you all.
Writing: This is actually very much the same as above except I guess with writing you'd do entire scenes and it doesn't have to be from the game, maybe...what your Shepard did in his/her time off, the favorite way they spent travel time, I dunno I suck at all four of these haha! No bashing Bioware or EA, no bashing the game in general. We aren't spoiled, we are civilized.
Posters: This one does have to do directly with the endings, I am sure you've seen people like Melicamp and Drowvaympyre making gorgeous Retake the ending posters, well this is your chance to get in on the action! Drawn,Photoshopped. Doesn't matter how it's made. Only major rule is that it must be with one of of the ME3 characters, as all of our movement posters have been, (Kirrahe,Shepard,Anderson, etc etc.)
Song Lyrics: Well this is seems pretty straight forward but any questions feel forward to PM me. You're writing song lyrics about the game and movement. We've seen it done many times with Kirrahe's speech, so perhaps you have an idea for it, go for it!
All submissions will be hosted on Deviant Art, which I will get you a link for just as soon as Miss Graham gets back to me, I did send her an e-mail yesterday but it was very late I doubt she's seen it yet. That being said I know everyone was hoping for some big undertaking to catch Bioware's eye but we did that, now we must wait for the response. The next major move is in Bioware's court, we must simply be patient and Hold The Line! We mustn't falter or become weary and give up, this is about keeping focus and if they try to ignore us at Pax, I assure you we have some very creative ideas to get there attention.
However for what it's worth I am sorry the idea isn't more grandiose. I still urge people to do particpate though. Plus this will bring attention from the Deviant Art community, many of whom are ME fans and whom are dissapointed with this ending, they not even know about us yet.
Hold The Line, Comrades.
~R
#7161
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 03:42
Rosery99
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- 347 messages
I find the debate of Video Games as art rather tiring at this point and let me explain why. Video Games are not art in and of itself, not as there being classes, they are very unique forms of art but you cannot group them with pictures,narrative or any other type of art. Permit me to explain my reasoning why the argument "Bioware has artistic integrity if they don't change it" falls on it's face here. An artist can say that and not change his art style because there will always be a group who likes it, perhaps a group thats large enough to pay for your apartment and feeding you.
Bioware? Bioware isn't trying to feed one person nor is any other company, they are trying to support a company. This doesn't come down to artistic integrity or any such thing, these are important to the right medium but not this one. They must support a company, which means they need us ALL of us to buy there games, otherwise...well they go out of business. This is about good business sense and heeding the cries of hundreds of thousands of fans is never a bad idea. Video Games do not need to be treated as art, they need to be treated as Video Games. They are art in there own way but at the end of the day, the people who make them must mantain a company.
Bioware? Bioware isn't trying to feed one person nor is any other company, they are trying to support a company. This doesn't come down to artistic integrity or any such thing, these are important to the right medium but not this one. They must support a company, which means they need us ALL of us to buy there games, otherwise...well they go out of business. This is about good business sense and heeding the cries of hundreds of thousands of fans is never a bad idea. Video Games do not need to be treated as art, they need to be treated as Video Games. They are art in there own way but at the end of the day, the people who make them must mantain a company.
#7162
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 03:46
cebo7590
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- 46 messages
Wish i could donate but i guess its already ended. (damn rent lol)
#7163
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 03:46
Melicamp
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- 388 messages
Awesome! Cheers Rosery, sounds great.
A couple of questions:
A couple of questions:
- Can we enter multiple entries and/or multiple categories?
- Do entries have to be novel, ie not previously displayed (ie can I enter my Kirrahe poster, hehe!)?
Modifié par Melicamp, 26 mars 2012 - 03:48 .
#7164
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 03:50
cebo7590
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- 46 messages
Wish i could donate but i guess its already ended. (damn rent lol)
#7165
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 03:55
txmn1016
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- 3 704 messages
@the Retake competition
Something that people can do for this is, when we've got the official link, pass on the word about this competition to your most frequented threads. From my general observations, I've found the most talent in the character discussions--so if you frequent one or more in particular, please pass the word on.
Something that people can do for this is, when we've got the official link, pass on the word about this competition to your most frequented threads. From my general observations, I've found the most talent in the character discussions--so if you frequent one or more in particular, please pass the word on.
#7166
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 04:00
txmn1016
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Melicamp wrote...
Awesome! Cheers Rosery, sounds great.
A couple of questions:Really looking forward to the awesome that this'll generate.
- Can we enter multiple entries and/or multiple categories?
- Do entries have to be novel, ie not previously displayed (ie can I enter my Kirrahe poster, hehe!)?
I don't see why you wouldn't be able to enter in multiple categories, and please feel free to enter the stuff that's already finished. Though novel entries are absolutely encouraged too.
#7167
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 04:08
SgtGlory
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- 172 messages
This sounds good, I like it! Can't wait to see what great stuff is turned out!.
And cebo, why not try http://www.fullparagon.com/ it's not affiliated with
Retake in any way but is a Mass Effect fan community project. There's still
good work to be done if you're out to donate for a good cause.
And cebo, why not try http://www.fullparagon.com/ it's not affiliated with
Retake in any way but is a Mass Effect fan community project. There's still
good work to be done if you're out to donate for a good cause.
Modifié par SgtGlory, 26 mars 2012 - 04:09 .
#7169
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 06:57
die-yng
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- Members
- 626 messages
Great Idea, Rosery. I really feel the need to thank you for all the effort you put into this.
I've had some ideas running around in my head anyway and now with this extra motivation,
I'm sure I'll be able to finish one of the new stories faster than before.
I've had some ideas running around in my head anyway and now with this extra motivation,
I'm sure I'll be able to finish one of the new stories faster than before.
#7170
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 07:42
die-yng
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- Members
- 626 messages
Here are some thoughts I posted in other places on the web.
Imagine an artist showing his newest work to an interested collector.
“The perspective in your picture is wrong, the scale between people, landscape and the building is off and you chose terrible looking colours. Is this suppossed to be some surrealistic masterpiece?”
“No, I was trying to draw my uncle’s villa in the Toscana.”
“Really? But then the picture is really horrible. You should probably give it a do-over and fix what’s wrong.”
“No way I’m gonna do this, I’ve got artistic integrity!”
“But the painting is crap.”
“Yes, but it is artistic crap.”
System shutdown because you can’t beat that logic
This here I posted in the comments of the 3 pipes article.
An analogy that comes to my mind is a craftsman of any kind.
He delivers a finished piece, it is handmade, he put a lot of effort into it, today many would consider this as a work of art.
And indeed a finely crafted piece can very easily also be artistic.
... but alas, his measurements were wrong and it doesn't work as it is suppossed to and does divert from what he promised his customer.
The craftsman would never dare to defend himself, using artistic integrity.
The same should be applied to Bioware.
The ending is broken, it's flawed and it contains logical errors.
It contradicts basic elements of the games and their established setting.
Last but not least, it is also in no way what Bioware promised to deliver.
If the ending to Mass Effect 3 is to be considered as a piece of art, then it is objectively a very bad and unskilled piece of art.
Imagine an artist showing his newest work to an interested collector.
“The perspective in your picture is wrong, the scale between people, landscape and the building is off and you chose terrible looking colours. Is this suppossed to be some surrealistic masterpiece?”
“No, I was trying to draw my uncle’s villa in the Toscana.”
“Really? But then the picture is really horrible. You should probably give it a do-over and fix what’s wrong.”
“No way I’m gonna do this, I’ve got artistic integrity!”
“But the painting is crap.”
“Yes, but it is artistic crap.”
System shutdown because you can’t beat that logic
This here I posted in the comments of the 3 pipes article.
An analogy that comes to my mind is a craftsman of any kind.
He delivers a finished piece, it is handmade, he put a lot of effort into it, today many would consider this as a work of art.
And indeed a finely crafted piece can very easily also be artistic.
... but alas, his measurements were wrong and it doesn't work as it is suppossed to and does divert from what he promised his customer.
The craftsman would never dare to defend himself, using artistic integrity.
The same should be applied to Bioware.
The ending is broken, it's flawed and it contains logical errors.
It contradicts basic elements of the games and their established setting.
Last but not least, it is also in no way what Bioware promised to deliver.
If the ending to Mass Effect 3 is to be considered as a piece of art, then it is objectively a very bad and unskilled piece of art.
#7171
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 08:15
Nyila
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- Members
- 3 136 messages
Hey peoples,
You should advertize the contest with the dA Mass Effect Club masseffectclub.deviantart.com/ and I'm pretty sure someone will eventually write a blog on the Retake ME3 group retakeme3.deviantart.com/
Have you decided what the deadline will be?
Don't forget, Shepard's birthday is April 11th! Create some great stuff in his/her honor!
You should advertize the contest with the dA Mass Effect Club masseffectclub.deviantart.com/ and I'm pretty sure someone will eventually write a blog on the Retake ME3 group retakeme3.deviantart.com/
Have you decided what the deadline will be?
Don't forget, Shepard's birthday is April 11th! Create some great stuff in his/her honor!
#7172
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 08:22
Nyila
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- Members
- 3 136 messages
die-yng wrote...
“But the painting is crap.”
“Yes, but it is artistic crap.”
If I may just point out something.. Artistic crap sells for a lot, check this out:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artist%27s_shit
Modifié par Nyila, 26 mars 2012 - 08:24 .
#7173
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 08:24
Arokel
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- Members
- 2 006 messages
Nyila wrote...
die-yng wrote...
“But the painting is crap.”
“Yes, but it is artistic crap.”
If I may just point out something.. Crap sells for a lot, check this out:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artist%27s_shit
About mid last decade I remember learning that a single black dot on canvas somewhere in Europe (Italy I think) sold for a million dollars.
#7174
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 08:29
txmn1016
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Nyila wrote...
Hey peoples,
You should advertize the contest with the dA Mass Effect Club masseffectclub.deviantart.com/ and I'm pretty sure someone will eventually write a blog on the Retake ME3 group retakeme3.deviantart.com/
Have you decided what the deadline will be?
Don't forget, Shepard's birthday is April 11th! Create some great stuff in his/her honor!
I think the deadline will be something like Apr. 5th. Still ironing out the details though.
#7175
Posté 26 mars 2012 - 08:30
txmn1016
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- Members
- 3 704 messages
Once we get an official link for the contest, we also need to think about asking the Demand a new ending people on FB to link us.
