72 réponses à ce sujet

[Daedalus1773]

Heh I am amazed at the mental gymnastics & rationalizing people will go to to connect disconnected dots while ignoring inconvenient facts, rather than just go with the simple answer that BioWare wrote a crappy ending.

[BuRnInICE]

April 1st is on it's way....

[BuRnInICE]

Crap I didn't realise this thread was in the No spoilers allowed section. Sorry!

[snackrat]

The main reasoning I see is that if you don't ahve enough War Assets, destruction is your only option. Well, what if all that running around GETTING those WA was giving the reapers time to indoctrinate you more effectively, eh?

Please... this is the closest thing we have to a saving grace that makes the ending.... to avoid spoilers, to still have a similar emotional effect but make more sense regarding story.

[Drake-Shepard]

Karsciyin wrote...

The main reasoning I see is that if you don't ahve enough War Assets, destruction is your only option. Well, what if all that running around GETTING those WA was giving the reapers time to indoctrinate you more effectively, eh?

Please... this is the closest thing we have to a saving grace that makes the ending.... to avoid spoilers, to still have a similar emotional effect but make more sense regarding story.

already mentioned above.

with low EMS your only choice to destroy is present only if you destroyed the collector base.

Yes the paragon choice in me2 opens up the choice that seems renegade in me3. This is on purpose. The indoctrination is tricking you, making it look bad.

and making the 2 other choices that the illusive man and saren gave in too seem paragon.


this video is a must watch. If you still don;t beleive it, then you never will.

 

[Moonshadow_Dark]

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

batlin wrote...

All indoctrination does is alter people's opinion, it doesn't create hallucinations. The indoctrination theory is already debunked because it involves making indoctrination some "it does whatever we want it to do" force, which it is not.

Indoctrination does produce hallucinations, at least autiory ones. The Cerberus research team aboard the Derelict Reaper reported hearing noises and voices which weren't there.

That Reaper was basically dead. Possible that a healthy one could make hallucinations.

[Drake-Shepard]

Moonshadow_Dark wrote...

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

batlin wrote...

All indoctrination does is alter people's opinion, it doesn't create hallucinations. The indoctrination theory is already debunked because it involves making indoctrination some "it does whatever we want it to do" force, which it is not.

Indoctrination does produce hallucinations, at least autiory ones. The Cerberus research team aboard the Derelict Reaper reported hearing noises and voices which weren't there.

That Reaper was basically dead. Possible that a healthy one could make hallucinations.

Bare in mind when you get hit my harbingers beam on that final run...you are mentally and physically weak. After being exposed to reaper tech every now and again for the last few years and then lieing in rubble almost dead....your pretty vulnerbale, your probabaly passed out too. So a full blown dream/hallucination is plausible

[res27772]

Personally, last night I had the thought that the ending was more a NDE than hallucination or indoctrination... but I don't know, it's more or less the same thing, right?

[matadm]

You want proof of the indoctrination theory... you got it!

http://i899.photobuc...NATEDBIATCH.jpg

You can also see the indoctrinated eyes in the synthesis ending as well.

Modifié par matadm, 18 mars 2012 - 07:27 .

[AkaTenar]

Just glanced over the responses, but anyone else notice the kid is ticked in the video? You just asked to play with his favorite toy and his mom is making him share.... Kinda odd.

[Supersomething]

batlin wrote...

templarfrost wrote...

batlin wrote...

All indoctrination does is alter people's opinion, it doesn't create hallucinations. The indoctrination theory is already debunked because it involves making indoctrination some "it does whatever we want it to do" force, which it is not.

You're absolutely, entirely wrong.  That statement is absolutely, entirely false.  It does create hallucinations.  See Mass Effect 2, missing Cerberus crew.

Nope. I'm looking at the page on indocrtination on the Mass Effect wiki right now. It says nothing about creating  hallucinations.

ME2 game play, Codex, and the Mass Effect novel Retribution.  Wiki is never a good source for information this is well known. 

Also its stated that very clearly Shepard is suffering from psychological strain from his campaign against the reapers, making him all the more susceptible to indoctrination.  Not sure if I believe the theory as it being the ending, but it is an interesting perspective given the facts already established in the franchise.

[r00tb33r]

You know what. All this indoctrination talk sparked some thought, and I actually believe the theory now. That child that Shep saw die on Earth, and the one that was haunting him in his dreams... Its the same one as the Crucible. Now why would it look the same? Cause reapers and/or the crucible want Shep to perceive it that way.

[IndustrializedTaco]

batlin wrote...

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

batlin wrote...

All indoctrination does is alter people's opinion, it doesn't create hallucinations. The indoctrination theory is already debunked because it involves making indoctrination some "it does whatever we want it to do" force, which it is not.

Indoctrination does produce hallucinations, at least autiory ones. The Cerberus research team aboard the Derelict Reaper reported hearing noises and voices which weren't there.

There's a big difference between dementia and having full-on dreams that did not happen.

Funny thing about that, the reapers made two Cerberus scientists remember the exact same memory with details. Whats to say the reapers can't make people see things?

[Biggtuna]

Damn.

Question for Indoctrination Theorists: How did the choice Shepard made: (Synthesis, Destroy, Control) have any effect on reality if it was part of a dream?

Question for non-Indoctrination Theorists: How did Shepard survive re-entering Earth's atmosphere after being on the Citadel?

[redplague]

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

There are endings where there is just only the destroy option? didn't know that i always thought you get control and destroy no matter what.

As far as I understand there are two thresholds of war assists.  1750 and 5000.

<=1750
1750< >5000
>=5000

Modifié par redplague, 18 mars 2012 - 11:33 .

[Sdrol117]

makalathbonagin wrote...

another Q:
How Shepard could breath in open space ?

Mass Effect fields. Bioware's answer for everything. Example:

"Shepard could breathe in space because Mass Effect fields."

"Holograms can kill people because Mass Effect fields."

"Guns shoot because Mass Effect fields."

[dunndude]

Looks like the Citadel to me I admit but concrete? Still seems to me the armour is the same as during the Citadel scenes so it would make sense he is still there (even if it blew up)? Plot hole perhaps although the scenes can be interpreted either way with all that smoke in the video.

EDIT second glance it's a transport ship?

Modifié par dunndude, 19 mars 2012 - 12:23 .

[Tiax Rules All]

makalathbonagin wrote...

[this still looks like Citadel to me

http://img515.images...01203120427.jpg
Looks EXACTLY like London to me. see buildings

Modifié par Tiax Rules All, 19 mars 2012 - 12:26 .

[Deflagratio]

Before debunking any theory, keep in mind that the ending is really a nonsensical mess. It's actually no secret that Bioware intended players to be indoctrinated, but had to remove it because of some pishposh about not being able to get it working right.

Even if they didn't intend this Indoctrination theory to be anything close to the ending, it's really Bioware's only way to save face right now. I wouldn't be surprised if they adopted it to keep their composure at some point.

[IST]

 To those who think that looks like the Citadel (the final scene) - do you think Starchild and his flunkies built the Citadel out of concrete, and Shep survived the re-entry.. 
If space magic existed in the ME universe, sure - why not.
The only logical explanation of the good/seemingly renegade final outcome is the Indoctrination Theory, and the only reason to put that final scene, where your armour is charred just enough to encompass anyones individualised armour at the time of the final scene, where the dogtag is the obvious sign to tell you who it is... 

When people say the Indoctrination Theory is grasping at straws I laugh.. either they don't want to see evidence in plain sight, or they just want their pain to end (which I understand), but it doesn't change the fact that it is the ONLY logical explanation of such a FUBAR ending, and it is based on a MOUNTAIN of evidence, backed by the in-game codex in full.

The fact that BW has stated that single player DLC is 100% in the works, and Casey Hudson stated in his response that "This is not the last you’ll hear of Commander Shepard" doesn't hurt the theory either..

[dunndude]

True although I'm sure the original ending was what was originally intended if you look at the ending in themes instead of face value it kinda makes sense although has some poor implementation.