283 réponses à ce sujet

[Gunslinger01101]

lyssalu wrote...

AxisEvolve wrote...

Arlionis wrote...

So, what about male Shepard? the guy's body looks like the body of the Greek god Apollo! he has a better body than 99% of the males in the planet, yet I don't see anyone protesting about that or labeling it as "sexist".

Because naked people are gross and the human body is icky! It's fine if the male characters are body builders with high cheekbones but if would be fan service to see the outline of where a dude's junk should be, apparently. 

I think the female form is beautiful, it's art. Nudity isn't porn. I don't understand the "taboo" of seeing someone naked but then again I was born in a country where they weren't afraid of boobs enough to censor it on TV.

I don't care if they put in an appearance for a half-naked dude. That doesn't effect me in the least. The future lies in accepting what we are and what we enjoy. There's no use in shying away from it. 

si, if things were equal i'd be all for it

but i mean, this about sums it up:

“Gamers get hella uncomfortable over male sexuality too. Can you imagine a ‘good male character who just happens to be wearing sexually exploitative outfits because he’s ok with his masculinity?’ Constantly has the camera pan lovingly over his asscrack and firm glutes, and big ole dangly ballsack that is totes sweaty from all this MMA and soldiering. Time to hit the showers, and do you, personally, think it’s ok to have a long slow pan up the dude’s package (indiscreetly hidden in a jock of course), to his chiseled physique and erect nipples (pierced). He’s not even a Bond-esque confident man, he’s basically a weird Bowie caricature that’s constantly having near-dickslips in every single cinematic as the completely nonsexualized female characters do their business of being gruff and shooting dudes and advancing the plot. Finally, at the end he falls in love (out of nowhere) and/or is killed by the big baddie.” 

Also all you've done there is reversed the stereotyped gender rolls. Sexualized objectification of men is DIFFERENT than that of women, fundamentally. It is a result of a culture that puts value on things that don't (or shouldn't) matter at all in an advanced culture. We no longer have to choose our mates based merely on their physical fitness or prowess in order to get the best chance at health offspring. Our culture has, for the most part, no caught on to this.
 Also that game would be pretty badass. I'd play it.

[Gunslinger01101]

lyssalu wrote...

woah, wait, you took the above quote and applied it to homosexuality?

look at yourself

do you even understand what you just did?

"Male Sexuality" applies to homosexual sexuality as well. Or....do you think it doesnt.....?

You're also making a rather simplistic assumption that "male sexuality" has to take the exact form that "female sexuality" takes, as in skimpy outfits. Well what about the fact that one of the primary aspects of the game is a romance subplot where you are given the option of romancing whoever you want just by saying the right things? I mean, what does that say about the male archtype im playing as? What does it say about the FEMALE archtype im playing? (we seem to forget about femshep in this WHOLE argument). It's the point I have been making this whole time. MEN ARE OVERSEXUALIZED just in a DIFFERENT way, that is JUST as unpleasant to a lot of men.

Modifié par Gunslinger01101, 13 mars 2012 - 07:26 .

[Gunslinger01101]

Deleted for double postage.

Modifié par Gunslinger01101, 13 mars 2012 - 07:22 .

[AxisEvolve]

lyssalu wrote...
si, if things were equal i'd be all for it

but i mean, this about sums it up:

“Gamers get hella uncomfortable over male sexuality too. Can you imagine a ‘good male character who just happens to be wearing sexually exploitative outfits because he’s ok with his masculinity?’ Constantly has the camera pan lovingly over his asscrack and firm glutes, and big ole dangly ballsack that is totes sweaty from all this MMA and soldiering. Time to hit the showers, and do you, personally, think it’s ok to have a long slow pan up the dude’s package (indiscreetly hidden in a jock of course), to his chiseled physique and erect nipples (pierced). He’s not even a Bond-esque confident man, he’s basically a weird Bowie caricature that’s constantly having near-dickslips in every single cinematic as the completely nonsexualized female characters do their business of being gruff and shooting dudes and advancing the plot. Finally, at the end he falls in love (out of nowhere) and/or is killed by the big baddie.” 

I can't control how other people feel... But I think it would be funny as hell to troll all of the insecure guys with that. 

But a lot of what you said would make people laugh. Society thinks the naked male is hilarious while the naked female is glorious (or disgusting apparently from reading this thread).

I won't lie, I do see your point. It's really difficult to even the playing field without making things weird. But it's muscles/model faces VS cleavage and "dat ass" now. EDI's cameltoe appears to be a one time thing so I wouldn't look into it too much.

Even though I'm not against it I still admit I was shocked the first time I saw it. I actually thought it was photoshopped. You have to admit this is a ballsy move. If nothing else sparked an interesting debate about what is acceptable and how far you can push the envelope. Everyone should ask themselves, why are you comfortable or uncomfortable with this? You might learn something about yourself. 

[lyssalu]

Gunslinger01101 wrote...

lyssalu wrote...

Gunslinger01101 wrote...

lyssalu wrote...

AxisEvolve wrote...

Arlionis wrote...

So, what about male Shepard? the guy's body looks like the body of the Greek god Apollo! he has a better body than 99% of the males in the planet, yet I don't see anyone protesting about that or labeling it as "sexist".

Because naked people are gross and the human body is icky! It's fine if the male characters are body builders with high cheekbones but if would be fan service to see the outline of where a dude's junk should be, apparently. 

I think the female form is beautiful, it's art. Nudity isn't porn. I don't understand the "taboo" of seeing someone naked but then again I was born in a country where they weren't afraid of boobs enough to censor it on TV.

I don't care if they put in an appearance for a half-naked dude. That doesn't effect me in the least. The future lies in accepting what we are and what we enjoy. There's no use in shying away from it. 

si, if things were equal i'd be all for it

but i mean, this about sums it up:

“Gamers get hella uncomfortable over male sexuality too. Can you imagine a ‘good male character who just happens to be wearing sexually exploitative outfits because he’s ok with his masculinity?’ Constantly has the camera pan lovingly over his asscrack and firm glutes, and big ole dangly ballsack that is totes sweaty from all this MMA and soldiering. Time to hit the showers, and do you, personally, think it’s ok to have a long slow pan up the dude’s package (indiscreetly hidden in a jock of course), to his chiseled physique and erect nipples (pierced). He’s not even a Bond-esque confident man, he’s basically a weird Bowie caricature that’s constantly having near-dickslips in every single cinematic as the completely nonsexualized female characters do their business of being gruff and shooting dudes and advancing the plot. Finally, at the end he falls in love (out of nowhere) and/or is killed by the big baddie.” 

Actually when I saw that Cortez was an openly gay man grieving for his lost husband, I huzzahed, because it was about bloody time. See what making assumptions does?

woah, wait, you took the above quote and applied it to homosexuality?

look at yourself

do you even understand what you just did?

"Male Sexuality" applied to homosexual sexuality as well. Or....do you think it doesnt.....?

male sexuality means...any...any sexuality.............any...........................ANY

any

male homosexuality...

male hetero...sexualit........y

ma...le...bi
s
ex
u
al
ity

pansexuality

transexuality

,,,,,,,,,,

how much more heteronormative can someone be my gosh child can i get your autograph

[lyssalu]

AxisEvolve wrote...

lyssalu wrote...
si, if things were equal i'd be all for it

but i mean, this about sums it up:

“Gamers get hella uncomfortable over male sexuality too. Can you imagine a ‘good male character who just happens to be wearing sexually exploitative outfits because he’s ok with his masculinity?’ Constantly has the camera pan lovingly over his asscrack and firm glutes, and big ole dangly ballsack that is totes sweaty from all this MMA and soldiering. Time to hit the showers, and do you, personally, think it’s ok to have a long slow pan up the dude’s package (indiscreetly hidden in a jock of course), to his chiseled physique and erect nipples (pierced). He’s not even a Bond-esque confident man, he’s basically a weird Bowie caricature that’s constantly having near-dickslips in every single cinematic as the completely nonsexualized female characters do their business of being gruff and shooting dudes and advancing the plot. Finally, at the end he falls in love (out of nowhere) and/or is killed by the big baddie.” 

I can't control how other people feel... But I think it would be funny as hell to troll all of the insecure guys with that. 

But a lot of what you said would make people laugh. Society thinks the naked male is hilarious while the naked female is glorious (or disgusting apparently from reading this thread).

I won't lie, I do see your point. It's really difficult to even the playing field without making things weird. But it's muscles/model faces VS cleavage and "dat ass" now. EDI's cameltoe appears to be a one time thing so I wouldn't look into it too much.

Even though I'm not against it I still admit I was shocked the first time I saw it. I actually thought it was photoshopped. You have to admit this is a ballsy move. If nothing else sparked an interesting debate about what is acceptable and how far you can push the envelope. Everyone should ask themselves, why are you comfortable or uncomfortable with this? You might learn something about yourself. 

i don't think anyone is trying to say that female sexuality or nudity is disgusting, i think they're trying to point out that the way it's been done both here and in many other frames is disturbing

also lfdjkhgkdjfhs LMAO

EDI's cameltoe appears to be a one time thing so I wouldn't look into it too much.

no pun intended? 

[Gunslinger01101]

lyssalu wrote...


male sexuality means...any...any sexuality.............any...........................ANY

any

male homosexuality...

male hetero...sexualit........y

ma...le...bi
s
ex
u
al
ity

pansexuality

transexuality

,,,,,,,,,,

how much more heteronormative can someone be my gosh child can i get your autograph

 wow, how much more assumptiony and jackassy can one be? You said male sexuality makes men uncomfortable. I pointed out that an overt display of male homosexuality didn't make me uncomfortable, and that I in fact cheered it (and as you pointed out, homosexuality DOES COUNT as sexuality), and your point is.......what? I'm heternormative because I consider homosexuality to be a part of "male sexuality"? That's quite literally nonsensical.

Modifié par Gunslinger01101, 13 mars 2012 - 07:29 .

[lyssalu]

Gunslinger01101 wrote...

lyssalu wrote...

Gunslinger01101 wrote...

lyssalu wrote...

Gunslinger01101 wrote...

lyssalu wrote...

AxisEvolve wrote...

Arlionis wrote...

So, what about male Shepard? the guy's body looks like the body of the Greek god Apollo! he has a better body than 99% of the males in the planet, yet I don't see anyone protesting about that or labeling it as "sexist".

Because naked people are gross and the human body is icky! It's fine if the male characters are body builders with high cheekbones but if would be fan service to see the outline of where a dude's junk should be, apparently. 

I think the female form is beautiful, it's art. Nudity isn't porn. I don't understand the "taboo" of seeing someone naked but then again I was born in a country where they weren't afraid of boobs enough to censor it on TV.

I don't care if they put in an appearance for a half-naked dude. That doesn't effect me in the least. The future lies in accepting what we are and what we enjoy. There's no use in shying away from it. 

si, if things were equal i'd be all for it

but i mean, this about sums it up:

“Gamers get hella uncomfortable over male sexuality too. Can you imagine a ‘good male character who just happens to be wearing sexually exploitative outfits because he’s ok with his masculinity?’ Constantly has the camera pan lovingly over his asscrack and firm glutes, and big ole dangly ballsack that is totes sweaty from all this MMA and soldiering. Time to hit the showers, and do you, personally, think it’s ok to have a long slow pan up the dude’s package (indiscreetly hidden in a jock of course), to his chiseled physique and erect nipples (pierced). He’s not even a Bond-esque confident man, he’s basically a weird Bowie caricature that’s constantly having near-dickslips in every single cinematic as the completely nonsexualized female characters do their business of being gruff and shooting dudes and advancing the plot. Finally, at the end he falls in love (out of nowhere) and/or is killed by the big baddie.” 

Actually when I saw that Cortez was an openly gay man grieving for his lost husband, I huzzahed, because it was about bloody time. See what making assumptions does?

woah, wait, you took the above quote and applied it to homosexuality?

look at yourself

do you even understand what you just did?

"Male Sexuality" applied to homosexual sexuality as well. Or....do you think it doesnt.....?

male sexuality means...any...any sexuality.............any...........................ANY

any

male homosexuality...

male hetero...sexualit........y

ma...le...bi
s
ex
u
al
ity

pansexuality

transexuality

,,,,,,,,,,

how much more heteronormative can someone be my gosh child can i get your autograph

 wow, how much more assumptiony and jackassy can one be? You said male sexuality makes men uncomfortable. I pointed out that an overt display of male homosexuality didn't make me uncomfortable, and that I in fact cheered it (and as you pointed out, homosexuality DOES COUNT as sexuality), and your point is.......what? I'm heternormative because I consider homosexuality to be a part of "male sexuality"? That's quite literally nonsensical.

you took a quote talking specifically about male bodies and the many ways wherein they can be sexually exploited but aren't and your mind jumped immediately to homosexuality and how accepting and awesome a person you are

round of applause, buddy

not to mention the fact that you're trying to take generalizations that can be gleaned from statistical analysis and reduce it to your own individual experiences

dat aint a rational thing to do at all

Modifié par lyssalu, 13 mars 2012 - 07:32 .

[AxisEvolve]

lyssalu wrote...

i don't think anyone is trying to say that female sexuality or nudity is disgusting, i think they're trying to point out that the way it's been done both here and in many other frames is disturbing

also lfdjkhgkdjfhs LMAO

EDI's cameltoe appears to be a one time thing so I wouldn't look into it too much.

no pun intended? 

Pun intended. 

[BatmanPWNS]

All the female squadmates in ME need 3 things. Giant ******, huge ass and a sexy voice. All the male squadmates aren't restricted by any rules.

[AxisEvolve]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

All the female squadmates in ME need 3 things. Giant ******, huge ass and a sexy voice. All the male squadmates aren't restricted by any rules.

Big muscles, high cheekbones, manly stubble.

[lyssalu]

AxisEvolve wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

All the female squadmates in ME need 3 things. Giant ******, huge ass and a sexy voice. All the male squadmates aren't restricted by any rules.

Big muscles, high cheekbones, manly stubble.

thane is staging a protest

he is but a dainty boy

he has no fur

he has cleavage

apologize

[AxisEvolve]

Sorry Thane... But look what Bioware did with him. Didn't make teh cut.

[clonedoriginzero]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

All the female squadmates in ME need 3 things. Giant ******, huge ass and a sexy voice. All the male squadmates aren't restricted by any rules.

tali's voice isn't very "sexy"
tali does not have huge ******.

apologize.

[BatmanPWNS]

AxisEvolve wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

All the female squadmates in ME need 3 things. Giant ******, huge ass and a sexy voice. All the male squadmates aren't restricted by any rules.

Big muscles, high cheekbones, manly stubble.

Mordin and Legion say hi. Plus Zaeed got a big f**king scar on his face. Imagine if Bioware had to balls to do that with a female sqaduamte.

[BatmanPWNS]

clonedoriginzero wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

All the female squadmates in ME need 3 things. Giant ******, huge ass and a sexy voice. All the male squadmates aren't restricted by any rules.

tali's voice isn't very "sexy"
tali does not have huge ******.

apologize.

Have you seen Tali's front? They sure aren't in the small side. Plus maybe you don't like the voice but I am sure some people do.

[lyssalu]

AxisEvolve wrote...

Sorry Thane... But look what Bioware did with him. Didn't make teh cut.

you gonna make me cry

[AxisEvolve]

 I'll shut up. 

[BatmanPWNS]

AxisEvolve wrote...

 I'll shut up. 

You don't need to. I wans't trying to be rude.

[clonedoriginzero]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

clonedoriginzero wrote...

BatmanPWNS wrote...

All the female squadmates in ME need 3 things. Giant ******, huge ass and a sexy voice. All the male squadmates aren't restricted by any rules.

tali's voice isn't very "sexy"
tali does not have huge ******.

apologize.

Have you seen Tali's front? They sure aren't in the small side. Plus maybe you don't like the voice but I am sure some people do.

they're perfectly in proportion with her body, no one would consider them "giant" or even "large".
and if you're going to go "im sure some people do" as an excuse, then EVERYONE has a sexy voice as someone might find it sexy.

way to handwave bro.

[Dollymixtures]

To be fair, I suspect Tali was a surprise favourite as far as
Bioware were concerned. She became a big hit without having been
initially introduced as an LI. Turning her into a romance option for ME2
made perfect sense after that.

I agree, she was a breath of
fresh air, and her generally endearing personality is what made her
attractive. She never required '****** & ass' to make her appealing.

However,
generally those female NPCs introduced into the game with the intention
of becoming LIs for manShep do tend to have very typical and
over-empasized physical characteristics. Miranda can never get through a
scene without the camera so close to her voluptuous bottom it could
easily qualify as the world's largest endoscope, and Ashley spends most
of ME3 showing off an apparent breast augmentation, not to mention a
haircut so impractical I doubt she could see down the scope of her
assault rifle for stray strands getting in the way. The one exception
would be Jack, but her bra-top makes me think belts are in such high
supply in maximum security prisons, and underwear so low, that she was
forced to look like a model in a bondage magazine. No wonder she's always so pissed off...[smilie]../../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

You can argue that several of the male LIs have received the same treatment, and I would agree. But the emphasis isn't placed so
much on their physical attributes that they demand their own acrobatic
camera angles just to be included in important scenes. Also, arguing
Sheploo is pure eye-candy for the ladies is rendered silly when you
realise most people who will get to see him in-game will be
overwhelmingly male.

To be honest, despite the occasional obvious
slip, I like Bioware for the way they at least try to represent genders
as equal, and try to represent sexuality without one side being totally
dominated by the other. And so, as for EDIs camel-toe...in bad taste?
Maybe. Probably. It's not enough to turn me off the franchise, but it
does make me wonder why they included it.


Edit: Excuse weird layout - have no idea why it ended up looking this bad.

Modifié par Dollymixtures, 13 mars 2012 - 09:15 .

[AxisEvolve]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

AxisEvolve wrote...

 I'll shut up. 

You don't need to. I wans't trying to be rude.

It's all good.

[SimonM72]

lyssalu wrote...

can someone explain to me in a manner that's not disturbing why edi has a vagina

no you can't because it will never not be disturbing

For exactly the same reason why in the 'Art of Mass Effect Universe' art-book lore it explains her moving facial features and hair and how she once had skin over the metal frame - as an infiltration model she needs to accurately resemble the human form.
So sure.... there you go, cyber-cameltoe! (lol).

Modifié par SimonM72, 13 mars 2012 - 10:45 .

[AxisEvolve]

SimonM72 wrote...

lyssalu wrote...

can someone explain to me in a manner that's not disturbing why edi has a vagina

no you can't because it will never not be disturbing

For exactly the same reason why in the 'Art of Mass Effect Universe' art-book lore it explains her moving facial features and hair and how she once had skin over the metal frame - as an infiltration model she needs to accurately resemble the human form.
So sure.... there you go, cyber-cameltoe! (lol).

Exactly. She had to be modeled after an exact human (parts and all) to be a fail-proof infiltration unit. You don't infiltrate by blowing the door off the hinges. You need to blend in. Has anyone considered that she even used sex as a weapon? I don't see how the morality of that issue would present itself in a robot. TIM had no room for failure and probably programmed her to do whatever it took.

Modifié par AxisEvolve, 13 mars 2012 - 10:52 .

[Dollymixtures]

AxisEvolve wrote...

SimonM72 wrote...

lyssalu wrote...

can someone explain to me in a manner that's not disturbing why edi has a vagina

no you can't because it will never not be disturbing

For exactly the same reason why in the 'Art of Mass Effect Universe' art-book lore it explains her moving facial features and hair and how she once had skin over the metal frame - as an infiltration model she needs to accurately resemble the human form.
So sure.... there you go, cyber-cameltoe! (lol).

Exactly. She had to be modeled after an exact human (parts and all) to be a fail-proof infiltration unit. You don't infiltrate by blowing the door off the hinges. You need to blend in. Has anyone considered that she even used sex as a weapon? I don't see how the morality of that issue would present itself in a robot. TIM had no room for failure and probably programmed her to do whatever it took.

Yep, I can buy that she needs to appear as human as possible as, prior to becoming a platform for EDI, she had to pass as an organic lifeform. And yes, it seems sex or sexual suggestion may have been used as a way to infiltrate. She's doubtlessly very physically attractive, and so much so that even others on the Normandy feel obliged to mention it. But that in itself is still hugely problematic if it implies that the only way for a her to collect delicate information or sabotage something successfully is by using her physical attributes to gain an advantage. It makes sense that TIM would use the way that provided the best available outcome, and apparently that included making Eva's physical form sexually appealing.

It still raises the same old issues.