224 réponses à ce sujet

[rizengrad]

EDIT: Looks like it got moved.

Modifié par rizengrad, 14 mars 2012 - 03:35 .

[piemanz]

Berkilak wroteWhile I understand that, it was never a central theme of the franchise. That's what makes it so disconcerting.

So, finding out why the Reapers do what they do and eventually defeating them wasn't a central theme to the series?, how exactly?

[bleetman]

piemanz wrote...

Berkilak wroteWhile I understand that, it was never a central theme of the franchise. That's what makes it so disconcerting.

So, finding out why the Reapers do what they do and eventually defeating them wasn't a central theme to the series?, how exactly?

Sure, but what was the reason the Reapers do what they do? To prevent organics advancing to the point where they create synthetic life which will inevitably turn on them. That's the central underpinning theme to the ending. This will happen, and the only way to stop it is to cap the rate at which organics can advance to by wiping them out. That's what the ending tells you.

Which... goes against everything we learn about synthetic life other than the Reapers in the setting. We're given a new perspective on the geth in ME2 with Legion, which is vastly expanded in ME3. We're shown EDI, who comes to terms with what her existence means. We're routinely made to question the very basics of what constitutes life. And yes, we can foster peace and unity between the one race that has, it would seem, demonstrated this inevitable conclusion (the quarians) and their synthetic creations (the geth), shortly after being shown that, as it turns out, the geth didn't even turn on their creators in the first place.

So no. To be told, at the last minute, that synethics vs organics is some great inevitable conclusion, that it's happened before and will always happen again is not in line with the theme of the series. And besides, if it was all about preventing organics from creating synthetics, the Reapers should've turned up over three hundred years ago.

Modifié par bleetman, 14 mars 2012 - 03:49 .

[KappaOmicron]

The ending doesn't make any sense at all, I seriously cannot understand why so many are defending the ending of actually being an ending. I'm hoping this all ends up being some kind of hallucination for Shepard because the ending DID NOT MAKE SENSE IN THE SLIGHTEST.

Think about it. YOU ARE ON EARTH. Normandy is fighting the Reapers in space above Earth. ALL of your squad mates are on Earth. After you get knocked the hell out by Harbinger and you make your choice.

WHY IS JOKER RUNNING AWAY ALONE (looks like he's jumping through a Mass Relay) AND HOW DID YOUR SQUAD MEMBERS GET ABOARD THE NORMANDY WITH HIM SO QUICKLY.

I'm sorry but there's something missing for me. My playthrough for example. Ashley WAS with me in the end. How the %^&*%^ did she get aboard the Normandy at the end?

ME3's ending has blown my mind and I just can't piece them together to actually see that it wasn't all in Shepard's head like many people are speculating. I even agree, it must of been Shepard fighting indoctrination in some shape or form. It makes more sense that way. Plus in the ending where you see him BREATHE. He was aboard the freaking Citadel AND you see it get blown up in the final cutscene. I'm sorry but he should be in pieces. Also you see rubble as it's getting to where he's about to breathe, there is NO rubble on the Citadel. He looks like he just woke up from being blasted by Harbinger.

Another point, Anderson stating he went in through another way. THERE WAS NO OTHER WAY ON THAT PLATFORM FROM WHERE YOU CAM. The way you came onto that platform was the ONLY bridge leading to it. What is he? Peter Pan and he used some fairy dust and though of happy thoughts and flew there? I think not. I seriously cannot comprehend anyone who's saying it can't be a hallucination.

[piemanz]

bleetman wrote...

piemanz wrote...

Berkilak wroteWhile I understand that, it was never a central theme of the franchise. That's what makes it so disconcerting.

So, finding out why the Reapers do what they do and eventually defeating them wasn't a central theme to the series?, how exactly?

Sure, but what was the reason the Reapers do what they do? To prevent organics advancing to the point where they create synthetic life which will inevitably turn on them. That's the central underpinning theme to the ending. This will happen, and the only way to stop it is to cap the rate at which organics can advance to wiping them out. That's what the ending tells you.

Which... goes against everything we learn about synthetic life other than the Reapers in the setting. We're given a new perspective on the geth in ME2 with Legion, which is vastly expanded in ME3. We're shown EDI, who comes to terms with what her existence means. We're routinely made to question the very basics of what constitutes life. And yes, we can foster peace between the one race that has, it would seem, demonstrated this inevitable conclusion (the quarians) and their synthetic creations (the geth), shortly after being shown that, as it turns out, the geth didn't even turn on their creators.

So no. To be told, at the last minute, that synethics vs organics is some great inevitable conclusion, that it's happened before and will always happen again is not in line with the theme of the series.

While the experienes with the geth may color your choice of the final decision they don't prove anything, they only prove thet you were able to have peece with the geth at that particular point in time, it doesn't prove that at some point the Geth won't advance and destroy the creators, or all organic life.

More importantly, the Reapers think they're right, whether you agree with what they're doing and their solution is mainy irrlelvent to them.

[Butane9000]

I have to agree with Bleetman, the idea that suddenly we're being wiped out to save us is ridiculous. We didn't strive to defeat the reapers only to give into them.

[deathscythe517]

Seen this exact thread the other day before, it managed to get to 24 pages I think? Why don't you go revive that since at least that person put some effort into having a meaningful discussion.

[Paulinius]

None of the options the Catalyst gives you will prevent the creation of other synthetics.

Even in the synthesis ending there's nothing that keeps the hybrids from making their own synthetics. Plus, I don't understand how the Geth gain organic components. What, do they get internal organs and skin?

[jlb524]

 My issue is that the ancient organic race who decided organics vs. synthetics would be an ongoing problem had the technology to bring about what they thought would be the ultimate solution (merge synthetics and organics..if they didn't have it, they couldn't have built it into their catalyst) but they didn't use it and instead created a cycle of mass genocide of organics for...the lulz?

[piemanz]

jlb524 wrote...

 My issue is that the ancient organic race who decided organics vs. synthetics would be an ongoing problem had the technology to bring about what they thought would be the ultimate solution (merge synthetics and organics..if they didn't have it, they couldn't have built it into their catalyst) but they didn't use it and instead created a cycle of mass genocide of organics for...the lulz?

The technology was in the crucible, thats what changed the catalyst and created the options available.

[General_Shepard7]

TopWargamer wrote...

Kingme17 wrote...

TopWargamer.... you are a douchebag.

For doing.....what?

Posting stuff that EVERYBODY could have easily clicked out of? How hard is it to click out of a thread if you KNOW spoilers are involved?

I'm sorry that I have said something that pissed off the community and that you guys can't counter. Oh well.

Way to blame others for your mistake.  You don't come off as someone whom I'd like to discuss such matters with.

On topic, *SPOILER* who did you think wouldn't understand the effects of the Crucible?  They make it pretty obvious that Shepard would die in whatever scenario you picked.  Keep in mind that Shepard was the first organic to make it to the Crucible.  How would the Protheans know the catalyst was the Citadel?  They never completed it.  People don't hate the ending because of what the Crucible does.  At least I think/hope that's not one of the reasons why people disapprove of the ending*SPOILER*

[Legendaryred]

It's Crucible, not sure if your lack of grammar has to do the fact that you can't understand the huge plot holes and irrelevancies.

[Genera1Nemesis]

bleetman wrote...

piemanz wrote...

Berkilak wroteWhile I understand that, it was never a central theme of the franchise. That's what makes it so disconcerting.

So, finding out why the Reapers do what they do and eventually defeating them wasn't a central theme to the series?, how exactly?

Sure, but what was the reason the Reapers do what they do? To prevent organics advancing to the point where they create synthetic life which will inevitably turn on them. That's the central underpinning theme to the ending. This will happen, and the only way to stop it is to cap the rate at which organics can advance to by wiping them out. That's what the ending tells you.

Which... goes against everything we learn about synthetic life other than the Reapers in the setting. We're given a new perspective on the geth in ME2 with Legion, which is vastly expanded in ME3. We're shown EDI, who comes to terms with what her existence means. We're routinely made to question the very basics of what constitutes life. And yes, we can foster peace and unity between the one race that has, it would seem, demonstrated this inevitable conclusion (the quarians) and their synthetic creations (the geth), shortly after being shown that, as it turns out, the geth didn't even turn on their creators in the first place.

So no. To be told, at the last minute, that synethics vs organics is some great inevitable conclusion, that it's happened before and will always happen again is not in line with the theme of the series. And besides, if it was all about preventing organics from creating synthetics, the Reapers should've turned up over three hundred years ago.

Actually, if you play Mass Effect 1 and listen to Legion's dialogue in 3; the Geth were on the rise in the Perseus Veil right before the events of Mass Effect 1. Cerberus was doing AI experiments all over the place and rogue VI became kinda sentient on the moon. Sovereign was in the Perseus Veil when Saren discovered it; and as Legion stated in 3 the Geth were trying to reach consensus about whether or not to destroy the creators.

There is also a conversation with EDI where she basically concluded that she is superior to organic life, and depending on Shep based her conclusions on her ship mates.

And sadly, which some might not know because of EA's stupidity; Javik has a whole lot of dialogue about the synthetic war the Protheans were engaged in right before the Reapers showed up to 'save' the galaxy from their own stupidity.

Just saying, the theme was there right from the start if you chose to pay attention to it.

[saracen16]

Farbautisonn wrote...

Oh I undestand.

I undestand that 3 similar endings that basically violates the lore and setting logic in the last 10 minutes of the game has ruined the entire IP and made any playthrough (I had alot) completely redundant. It insults my intelligence that bioware thinks Im too stupid to notice.

Oh fer Chrissakes, have a memory slightly longer than 10 ****ing minutes. The whole game of Mass Effect 3 was the ending. All your actions have had their results realized in all the subplots: Conrad ended up aiding the war effort, you cured the genophage, you helped the Quarians, etc.

[piemanz]

Legendaryred wrote...

It's Crucible, not sure if your lack of grammar has to do the fact that you can't understand the huge plot holes and irrelevancies.

Whoa, easy there tiger...

[Genera1Nemesis]

saracen16 wrote...

Farbautisonn wrote...

Oh I undestand.

I undestand that 3 similar endings that basically violates the lore and setting logic in the last 10 minutes of the game has ruined the entire IP and made any playthrough (I had alot) completely redundant. It insults my intelligence that bioware thinks Im too stupid to notice.

Oh fer Chrissakes, have a memory slightly longer than 10 ****ing minutes. The whole game of Mass Effect 3 was the ending. All your actions have had their results realized in all the subplots: Conrad ended up aiding the war effort, you cured the genophage, you helped the Quarians, etc.

Totally agree.

[bleetman]

piemanz wrote...

While the experienes with the geth may color your choice of the final decision they don't prove anything, they only prove thet you were able to have peece with the geth at that particular point in time, it doesn't prove that at some point the Geth won't advance and destroy the creators, or all organic life.

More importantly, the Reapers think they're right, whether you agree with what they're doing and their solution is mainy irrlelvent to them.

Of course it doesn't. Assuming they're still intact at that point, the geth have free will now. That implies they could, in the future, go to war with organics. It's a possibility. As is a possibility that anyone could go to war with anyone.

But that's not what the starkid says. He says that destruction is inevitable and unavoidable. That nothing anybody does can stop it, short of butchering organics to keep them from advancing too far. That the geth might go to war with organics is nowhere near the same thing as saying that their hostility is some immutable fact, and we're shown very clearly that synthetic life is possible to coexist with.

And yes, I'm well aware the Reapers don't care about what Shepard thinks. I'd expect as much. What bothers me is the lack of Shepard arguing. There's no debate. There's no resistence from someone who has in the past effectively told every Reaper s/he's interacted with to go **** themselves. Instead, we get a flawed premise from some creepy starkid who claims to have built the Reapers, and Shepard just passively goes along with it.

[Paragon_Sheppard]

TopWargamer wrote...

 This is all copy and pasted from another website.

Posted by: halomaster10144How can you enjoy them?  They're all melancholy and sad, along with lacking a real objective.  

That's the point.
You are in the final battle to defeat the Reapers, everybody thinks that the Crucibal is a huge ship that shoots out beams or some crap like that to take down all of the Reapers. 
The Crucibal lands on The Citadel, and then that's when you found out the only decisions to choose. Each would stop the Reapers, but in the end, you would still have to sacrifice your life to save the galaxy.
Kill one, save the rest. You can't change the purpose of the Crucibal. The Crucibal's only way to defeat the Reapers was one of those 3 decisions. You can't change canon to make the community happy, i'm sorry, but that's what the Crucibal is, and that's how you activate it.

I'll take what you say into consideration once you learn that it's spelt Crucible.

[foundthisway]

since this thread was made sticky (or if i am wrong)

originally posted by  Jason Andreas forbes.com

The writing of the ending most definitely deserves criticism. Introducing a deus ex machina in the final 5 minutes of 100 hours of gameplay spanning 3 games is poor writing. The character assassination of Commander Shepard as he just sits there and takes the talk of Sparkly-God Reaper Child, instead of arguing with him, is poor writing. The space magic merging of synthetics and organics is poor writing. The Normandy speeding through a Mass Relay with the crew members I took with me into the final battle in London, instead of fighting the Reapers above Earth, is poor writing. The questions that were not answered, as they were promised to be by the developers, is extremely poor decision-making. Where does my crew end up? What are the EFFECTS of my decisions (regarding the Krogan, Quarians, Geth, etc)? My love interest? The galaxy as a whole? Anything!?

sums it up pretty good

[Agamemnon2589]

Has anybody else noticed that the people who like the endings can't ever come up with a good reason as to why we should "just live with it"? Really what they say boils down to "it's just a game" or "quit whining" or "I thot the endingz was rly powetic an if u dun get them ur dum NARF".

[shurryy]

TopWargamer wrote...

 This is all copy and pasted from another website.

Posted by: halomaster10144How can you enjoy them?  They're all melancholy and sad, along with lacking a real objective.  

That's the point.
You are in the final battle to defeat the Reapers, everybody thinks that the Crucibal is a huge ship that shoots out beams or some crap like that to take down all of the Reapers. 
The Crucibal lands on The Citadel, and then that's when you found out the only decisions to choose. Each would stop the Reapers, but in the end, you would still have to sacrifice your life to save the galaxy.
Kill one, save the rest. You can't change the purpose of the Crucibal. The Crucibal's only way to defeat the Reapers was one of those 3 decisions. You can't change canon to make the community happy, i'm sorry, but that's what the Crucibal is, and that's how you activate it.

Oh! Look! Another one that missed the point on why we don't like the endings! Go stand by the rest of the minority. 

[johnj1979]

The ending to Mass Effect 3 IS rubbish.

All they had to do for the ending was control, destroy or save the Reapers and they did not do any of this.

The first bit of DLC for this game should be a good ending and an ending that goes with the two previous games

[Zeppex]

Hmm, even if you merge synthetics and organics to create the supposed perfect form of life. That in itself is flawed, in the future those synthetic/organics can create something that supersedes them. The thinking that the perfect evolution is synthesis is thinking very one dimensionally.

Or hell even in the future life can evolve where they don't need to be cyborg, the ultimate organic or synthetic etc...

[zarnk567]

foundfukedup wrote...

since this thread was made sticky (or if i am wrong)

originally posted by  Jason Andreas forbes.com

The writing of the ending most definitely deserves criticism. Introducing a deus ex machina in the final 5 minutes of 100 hours of gameplay spanning 3 games is poor writing. The character assassination of Commander Shepard as he just sits there and takes the talk of Sparkly-God Reaper Child, instead of arguing with him, is poor writing. The space magic merging of synthetics and organics is poor writing. The Normandy speeding through a Mass Relay with the crew members I took with me into the final battle in London, instead of fighting the Reapers above Earth, is poor writing. The questions that were not answered, as they were promised to be by the developers, is extremely poor decision-making. Where does my crew end up? What are the EFFECTS of my decisions (regarding the Krogan, Quarians, Geth, etc)? My love interest? The galaxy as a whole? Anything!?

sums it up pretty good