1634 réponses à ce sujet

[SgtPepper667]

Bravo, Sky, Bravo.

*gives you a cookie*

oh, and... HOLD THE LINE!

[RubiconI7]

Stay civil, stay passionate and stay vocal no matter which side you take.

Another great piece from a business pespective. We have a hard-headed pragmatist making our case.

Full PR Damage Control from EA/Bioware

http://social.biowar...ndex/10084349/1 

Modifié par RubiconI7, 17 mars 2012 - 06:21 .

[pomrink]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

MintyCool wrote...

*snip*

*Cracks knuckles* Challege accepted.

First of all, don't compare my post with toilet paper. It really doesn't make you sound like a reasonable, level-headed person.

The Displeasure of Not Knowing

I don't appreciate the insinuation that I am just some mindless automoton that is caught up in all the drama. It's not true. I also don't appreciate the insinuation that everyone else who disagrees with you are just mindless automotons. Sure, there are many who just go along with the crowd, but there are legitimate arguments against this ending, and why it is completely unworthy of a series you claim to love. 

I will respect your opinion on the endings. I won't shove something in your face and say, "Hey, but don't you see this ending doesn't make sense? Don't you see? Don't you see???" and do it until I force you to agree with me. You want to know why? Because I know it won't work. People are set in their ways and their views, and I cannot ever hope to change it. So I don't see the point in doing the same to me or anyone else who disagrees with you.

Why, In the End, My Opinion DOES Matter

If, in the end, my opinion does not, in fact, matter, then BioWare is the ultimate fan troll of all time. They tell us that our opinions and feedback do matter to them. If it doesn't in reality, then they're outright lying to us, and we have bigger issues to worry about.

Having an opinion about a product is also the hallmark of a responsible consumer. If businesses are smart, they'll respect their consumers and their opinions. Any time spent taking a business class will tell you that much. I'll direct you to this article by Forbes, which is very well respected in the business world. This quote in particular is what I want to showcase:

As far as I can tell, it basically comes down to this: being a smart consumer is more than just voting with your wallet. Half the time it’s too late for that. It’s easy to say “Well, if you don’t like the product, don’t buy it” but it doesn’t really work that way in practice. 

...
Isn’t it better to complain? Isn’t it better to try to make a change than to simply give up? Isn’t it better for developers and consumers alike to communicate this sort of thing rather than to just give up on one another? 

I think that this also debunks your argument about how we're the laughingstock of the media right now. Penny Arcade doesn't think there's anything bad about the endings, but they aren't saying anything horrible about us, either. Forbes is basically jumping in to defend us as consumers against Destructoid and IGN, who are really the only two I can think of right off the top of my head who are really coming down hard. Even Kotaku, while at first wasn't a fan of our movement, changed their tune.

You say I'll dance with the devil when push comes to shove? No, not really. I'm not a hardcore gamer. I don't get that twitch to buy the latest title. With games being $60 new, at least, I consider my game purchases carefully. I didn't game at all before I discovered Mass Effect. I came to appreciate it as a sci-fi epic more than a game. Sure, as a result I've picked up other games, but I am a far cry from the rabid fan who MUST get the next BioWare title. I don't guarantee I'll buy or not buy from BioWare again; I always weigh the purchase of each new game on its own merits, nothing more, nothing less.

Edit: The fact that we got BioWare to publicly apologize for Deception is also huge proof that our opinions are important. Not only that, it sets a precedent: BioWare will listen to fans and respond accordingly.

Why the Ending Doesn't Work (but that's just my opinion)

1. Some might feel the sacrifice of their Shepard is right for them. Right for their Shepard. I'm sure it would be satisfying in that case. But, for some, sacrificing their Shepard doesn't feel right, and they should have the freedom to choose that for their Shepard.

You also seem to forget that Shepard can live. But he/she can only live in a Destroy ending...but the Citadel is blown up in that ending. How does that work? Most believe Shepard wakes up in London...how does that work? Unanswered questions: the kind BioWare said we wouldn't be left with.

2. Philosopical themes are all well and good. I love them in my sci-fi. So much so, I was shocked and appaled when so many of them were completely abandoned in the last 10 minutes of the game.

One theme is friendship. By stranding the crew on a random planet for no good reason (and no explanation as for why Joker decided to turn coward and run away from the battle in the first place), they undermined the theme of friendship and togetherness. These are the people that have been with Shepard since the beginning. If Shepard lives, we should get the chance to have our friends by our side, unwavering...there from beginning to bitter end, and there to help us rebuild civilization.

Another theme is hope in the face of adversity. I will point out later how the Guardian basically tells us there is no hope and Shepard basically just rolls over and says, "Fine." Not that Shepard shouldn't feel dispair and loss in the middle of a galactic war, but in the end, none of that hope matters. An ending that has hope and an ending that is bittersweet aren't mutually exclusive.

3. In the end, BioWare is the creator, but they are also a business. They created a game for the consumers, even going so far as to recieve consumer input to make it in order to make it a better experience for us. It's up to a business to create a product that the consumers want. They will tell you that it has XYZ feature or does ABC thing in order to convince you to buy their product. There is nothing "entitled" about complaining about what you were promised and didn't recieve.

Casey Hudson himself said that it wouldn't ultimately come down to A, B, and C at the end of ME3. I guess he wasn't stretching the truth there...it came down to red, blue, and green. The only variations being the fate of Earth and Shepard. In all the endings, the galaxy is (somewhat) saved, the mass relays are destroyed, the allied fleet is stranded at Earth, and the Normandy is stranded God knows where. Tell me, what major variation is there besides "We blew them up, we destroyed them, or we forced everyone to meld together?" None. We got A, B, or C.

Speaking of forcing to meld together...who is Shepard to decide that for everyone? Just wondering.

4. The debate concerning the co-existence of organics and synthetics is a noble one. BioWare had done a very good job of it in the series so far. However, they built up the theme of co-existence with the quarian/geth story arc, where you could get them to work together, then threw that out the window at the very end. 

The Guardian says that synthetics will just keep killing organics. That the two can never live in peace. At no point did Shepard have the option to say, "Hey, wait a second, I got synthetics to work with the quarians. They only were forced into violence, they want to co-exist in peace if possible." The Guardian basically tells us that there is no hope for such a beautiful co-existence between synthetics and organics. To me, that's a slap in the face. So much for hope.

5. I don't think any Star Wars fans asked for midichlorians. Pretty darn sure.

I didn't have to look very hard for plot holes, either. My first reaction to the Normandy sequence was, "Huh? How in the world...?" I also didn't have to look very hard for, "Wait, I thought my squaddies were dead, now they're on the Normandy?" I'm not dense. It is the obligation of the storyteller to fill in the gaps, not leave fans scratching their heads. These are not inconsistencies, these are gaps and leaps in logic that need to be explained.

6. You seem to think that most of us disagree with you when it comes to 99% of this game. It was brilliant. It was a fun, fun ride. I loved it...right up until Harbinger hit me. Then, from there, nothing made sense, and not in a good way. Not in the way that made me think, "Huh, this is profound" but in a way that made me think, "Huh, this is messed up." 

In many cases, it's the fact we loved the rest of the game that really makes us want to have the ability to enjoy the last 10 minutes of it. Some people enjoyed it, and that's great to those who did. I personally don't want them to take these endings away from you if you liked them...I just want new ones for the rather large number of us who despised them. Indeed, you are entitled to your opinion. Let me be entitled to mine.

Looks like chess isn't your game. Shall we try Risk, instead?

I like this human. She articulates well!

Modifié par pomrink, 17 mars 2012 - 06:23 .

[viggorrah]

pomrink wrote...

I like this human. He articulates well!

Well, he's a she, but I do agree with you. Very well said, Sky. Very well said, indeed.

[pomrink]

viggorrah wrote...

pomrink wrote...

I like this human. He articulates well!

Well, he's a she, but I do agree with you. Very well said, Sky. Very well said, indeed.

I fixed it. Also, I'm sorry for mixing gender. I feel bad now D:

[CDRSkyShepard]

pomrink wrote...

viggorrah wrote...

pomrink wrote...

I like this human. He articulates well!

Well, he's a she, but I do agree with you. Very well said, Sky. Very well said, indeed.

I fixed it. Also, I'm sorry for mixing gender. I feel bad now D:

It's all good. It's hard to tell when all you have to go on is an avatar. Lol.

[MissFish]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

pomrink wrote...

viggorrah wrote...

pomrink wrote...

I like this human. He articulates well!

Well, he's a she, but I do agree with you. Very well said, Sky. Very well said, indeed.

I fixed it. Also, I'm sorry for mixing gender. I feel bad now D:

It's all good. It's hard to tell when all you have to go on is an avatar. Lol.

Sky's the Normandy!! *mind blown*

Any ways, good work Sky! I knew I love you for a reason, the whole thread is just goregous!

[pomrink]

I just feel bad for automatically assuming male lol

[viggorrah]

pomrink wrote...

I just feel bad for automatically assuming male lol

Eh, it's the interwebs; it's an automatic assumption.

[Keletian2]

Covers alot of my major issues with the ending, agree with most of it

[HurricaneGinger]

Go Sky! XD

HOLD THE LINE PEOPLE!

[pomrink]

viggorrah wrote...

pomrink wrote...

I just feel bad for automatically assuming male lol

Eh, it's the interwebs; it's an automatic assumption.

Still feel naughty for it ha. I just wish there was a gender neutral word in english that wasnt "it"

[mjh417]

HOLD THE LINE

[Zaneras]

Awesome compilation! Hope it gets their attention.

[SaltyWaffles-PD]

Here's to hoping threads like these don't get buried by super redundant or pointless threads.

[Madecologist]

CDRSkyShepard your link to Eternalsteelfan (Musings of a Screenwriter) thread doesn't work.

(I feel like the hypertext link police suddenly )

[CDRSkyShepard]

Madecologist wrote...

CDRSkyShepard your link to Eternalsteelfan (Musings of a Screenwriter) thread doesn't work.

(I feel like the hypertext link police suddenly )

Yeah, I noticed that about an hour ago...I can't figure out what's wrong with it. I'll check and see if I can find the original link in the morning.

[Sanrei]

Thanks for this thread. It's good to know I'm not alone. I have been avoid the internet in general for fear of spoilers up until now, so I wasn't sure how universal the disappointment was. I plan to look through a lot of these links but after I post this I need to take a break and find something to do to cheer myself up.

I just finished the game this morning. My fiance finished first and he tried to warn me.. but nothing could've prepared me, in the end, for what I faced at the end of this game.

I grew up reading books and playing video games, I REALLY get into my stories. I was fully expecting to cry at the end of ME3 because it was the end of my favorite series by my favorite company and because I was so sure it was going to be beautifully done. Again, nothing could have prepared me.

I sat there with tears rolling down my cheeks, unable to choose any of the three options but unable to do more. Shepard wanted the current life of the universe to make their own way without the interference of the reapers. If their only purpose was to destroy life then they needed to be destroyed, but not at the cost of an entire species. Not at the cost of putting everyone back thousands of years and possibly destroying hundreds of star systems(anyone remember what happened last time a relay was destroyed?) She would have sacrificed herself if it was the only way, but she had someone to live for now, a reason to make it back. Even if I were happy with the choices, I quickly found out how similar the endings were even when it came to the cutscenes, and how very little closure(practically none) you get. That's infuriating enough on its own.

As it is right now I wish I'd never played any of the games. It just feels like they built us up on this principle of being able to shape your own story and your own ending, be it good, bad, or bittersweet, only to tear you down right at the very end. This didn't destroy one game for me, it destroyed the whole freaking series. It's one thing to have three great games and end it off poorly, it's another to make an ending that is so out of whack with the structure THEY set up from the beginning that it completely kills the series.

You broke my heart Bioware.

[Baine10]

"We're gathering feedback....." BSN PR, this is one of the must-sees.

[Madecologist]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

Madecologist wrote...

CDRSkyShepard your link to Eternalsteelfan (Musings of a Screenwriter) thread doesn't work.

(I feel like the hypertext link police suddenly )

Yeah, I noticed that about an hour ago...I can't figure out what's wrong with it. I'll check and see if I can find the original link in the morning.

The original link:

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10022779/1

He recently updated a point at the end. He's on fire!

[CDRSkyShepard]

Madecologist wrote...

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

Madecologist wrote...

CDRSkyShepard your link to Eternalsteelfan (Musings of a Screenwriter) thread doesn't work.

(I feel like the hypertext link police suddenly )

Yeah, I noticed that about an hour ago...I can't figure out what's wrong with it. I'll check and see if I can find the original link in the morning.

The original link:

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10022779/1

He recently updated a point at the end. He's on fire!

It's working now. (But, now that I've said that, it will probably break again. XD)

[Madecologist]

Seems good now

[Sayuri Belle]

Yay bump! :3

[Moirai]

I did actually consider bumping this thread. I thought long and hard about it, and then decided I better not.

So I posted this instead... :innocent:

[Area42T]

bump