1634 réponses à ce sujet

[iamtienpham]

Re-installing Mass Effect 2 and going to pretend Mass Effect 3 doesn't exist for a while until they make a Mass Effect 3 Enhanced Edition or something...

[thrashmental]

 Support!

[wombat_stalker]

Just one thing I'd like to add to the 'Abandoned themes' part (I think that's where it goes?) is that the slogan/logline for ME3 was "Take Earth Back", but that saw very little address in the ending, making it a confused "did we actually save Earth?".

[nomoredruggs]

wombat_stalker wrote...

Just one thing I'd like to add to the 'Abandoned themes' part (I think that's where it goes?) is that the slogan/logline for ME3 was "Take Earth Back", but that saw very little address in the ending, making it a confused "did we actually save Earth?".

It doesn't really feel like we took back Earth at all....

[Damate]

Trying to keep this thread on the front page. The OP of this thread has it all if Jessica and Chris are gathering information to pass to the devs regarding our opinions/where fans are coming fun with our concerns and grievances about the ending. This thread pretty much has all the resources, summaries and links; concise and fuss free. Kudos to the creators for speaking so eloquently and intelligently in voicing what so many of us are feeling and asking right now.

[XqctaX]

bumped

[SDW]

Changes?
Cut out the Catalyst. Its explanations don't go along with things we've learnt before (e.g. if it upholds the cycle, there never was a need for Saren to try and manually activate the call signal for the dormant reapers in part 1 - the Catalyst could have done that himself) and it itself is not fully explained. Who even made it? How did it manage to build reapers? etc.
Leave the mass relays whole. Their destruction strands everybody and ends the big intergalactic society my character worked for. Therefore, their explosion negates the efforts made - very unsatisfactory.

An ending and victory should feel earned. That's why the boss fights in the first two games fit so well. I read about the "Final hours" app according to which you ditched a boss fight as too predictable, but there are reasons why certain storytelling tools keep being used. When there's that last big obstacle to overcome, you feel so much greater once it has been overcome. Sounds stupid to say it out loud, but us gamers want to smile and pat ourselves on the shoulder for having accomplished it. And THEN get a big reward. It's true that the path to the end matters most, but then, the end also has to feel satisfactory, telling us (like Anderson) "You've done well."

If Shepard has to die in some way, could you make it more awesome? It should go along with her history (like, if she's a paragon, it should fit the theme of "for the greater good and those I love", or if she's a renegade, maybe "Who do you think you are to tell me what to do! I'll show you!!"). I'd like to have her remembered by everyone (and it showing in the ending cutscene). What that character did for that universe was pretty much superhuman.
Then again, I'd like her to live. She's made tons of friends and it would be so satisfactory to see them together in the end (especially with her LI). Please give us some scenes of them fighting the remaining husks or so (if they haven't died alongside with the reapers), having banter, laughing, rebuilding their societies.
What do her squadmates do once it's all over? E.g. there was this strong storyline of EDI finding out what to do with her freedom. She made her decision (duty, altruism, love) and I was hoping to see how that translated into some actions.
And whatever happens to Shepard, please show us the outcomes of our decisions. I made peace between Quarians and Geth, healed the genophage and rallied all the species. Surely, that must mean a bright future? In case I had decided to be a renegade, I'd also be curious to see what consequences THAT had for the galaxy. Say I killed off the Geth. How much harder does that make things for the Quarians?

In short (and similar to a post of mine in another thread): Please give us consequences, catharsis and closure.

This song seems fitting as well:

[Homepat]

I support this!

[pomrink]

Great thread. Ihope you're not getting flooded with update requests though :[

[MintyCool]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

Looks like chess isn't your game. Shall we try Risk, instead?

Look, it's a beautiful day in Chicago and I don't live in the foothills of Jesus country; so I plan on being out for St. Patties all day. I will quickly answer your concerns before I leave....

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

MintyCool wrote...

*snip*

*Cracks knuckles* Challege accepted.

First of all, don't compare my post with toilet paper. It really doesn't make you sound like a reasonable, level-headed person.

Shall I just call you arrogant then for thinking that your topic would be the official voice of the public? Who are you again? Random forum poster? lol.

Fine by me. Pot meet Kettle?

CDRSkyShepard wrote...


The Displeasure of Not Knowing

I don't appreciate the insinuation that I am just some mindless automoton that is caught up in all the drama. It's not true. I also don't appreciate the insinuation that everyone else who disagrees with you are just mindless automotons. Sure, there are many who just go along with the crowd, but there are legitimate arguments against this ending, and why it is completely unworthy of a series you claim to love.

Wrong.

This may be what you want to believe, but in the end it is simply not true. This topic you created proves it. Under the conditions of this board you lost your individuality and became absorbed by the mob-like atmosphere, this in turn heightened your most primitive impulses/responses.

Let me ask, how come other ideas/theories are not found posted with-in this superiority complex of a discussion topic? I'm not just talking about my views; let's bring in of all the Occupy Bioware Conspiracies that are quite popular with the spooks on these boards. If you really feel you are the collector of all things, collect puppet.

You won't. Why? Because in the end you are still projecting your personal hopes that concern the ending; and for that exact reason Bioware will just ignore you until you fade away.

Blind loyalty with a pinch of close-minded ignorance, it's almost Christian-like....

CDRSkyShepard wrote...
If, in the end, my opinion does not, in fact, matter, then BioWare is the ultimate fan troll of all time. They tell us that our opinions and feedback do matter to them. If it doesn't in reality, then they're outright lying to us, and we have bigger issues to worry about.

I'll be honest, after awhile; reading the same paragraphs over and over on why you deserve special treatment becomes tiring. Must be nice thinking you're so entitled....

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

Having an opinion about a product is also the hallmark of a responsible consumer. If businesses are smart, they'll respect their consumers and their opinions. Any time spent taking a business class will tell you that much. I'll direct you to this article by Forbes, which is very well respected in the business world. This quote in particular is what I want to showcase:

As far as I can tell, it basically comes down to this: being a smart consumer is more than just voting with your wallet. Half the time it’s too late for that. It’s easy to say “Well, if you don’t like the product, don’t buy it” but it doesn’t really work that way in practice.

I think that this also debunks your argument about how we're the laughingstock of the media right now. Penny Arcade doesn't think there's anything bad about the endings, but they aren't saying anything horrible about us, either. Forbes is basically jumping in to defend us as consumers against Destructoid and IGN, who are really the only two I can think of right off the top of my head who are really coming down hard. Even Kotaku, while at first wasn't a fan of our movement, changed their tune.

This Forbs article debate shows just how uninformed your movement actually is; and I laugh every time its referenced. Look, Forbes is nothing more than an elaborate financial news site with verticals. The equivalent to this would be the most popular news site on the net, The Huffington Post.

Huffington Post has a series of topics which are known as verticals. These verticals need content; in order to fill that content, they will often hire off-the-street bloggers to fill in the voids.

Just because Forbes has some random blogger post an article about ME3 does not mean that Forbes, The Company, officially supports the comments. This is on the blogger. If anything these bloggers will keep posting about ME3 because they know its easy carbs. Easy carbs as in easy clicks. Easy clicks because they know a riled up mob when they see one; and they want to cash in on their stupidity. It's almost like when they write articles about the Tea Party or Occupy, they view you as nothing more than passionate freaks who will respond....

Guaranteed assets to fill up the coffers.

In the end, some people just choose not to lose their sense of self and discuss the plot like human beings instead of joining the cult-like hivemind that exists on the boards right now...

...and then you have the group that feels they are just intellectually superior to others.

Guess I proved them wrong.

Check and Mate.

Modifié par MintyCool, 17 mars 2012 - 07:19 .

[pomrink]

MintyCool wrote...





Look, it's a beautiful day in Chicago and I don't live in the foothills of Jesus country; so I plan on being out for St. Patties all day. I will quickly answer your concerns before I leave....

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

MintyCool wrote...

*snip*

*Cracks knuckles* Challege accepted.

First of all, don't compare my post with toilet paper. It really doesn't make you sound like a reasonable, level-headed person.

Shall I just call you arrogant then for thinking your topic would be the official voice of the public? Who are you again? Random forum poster? lol.

Fine by me. Pot meet Kettle?

CDRSkyShepard wrote...


The Displeasure of Not Knowing

I don't appreciate the insinuation that I am just some mindless automoton that is caught up in all the drama. It's not true. I also don't appreciate the insinuation that everyone else who disagrees with you are just mindless automotons. Sure, there are many who just go along with the crowd, but there are legitimate arguments against this ending, and why it is completely unworthy of a series you claim to love.

Wrong.

This may be what you want to believe, but in the end it is simply not true. This topic you created proves it. Under the conditions of this board you lost your individuality and became absorbed by the mob like atmosphere, this in turn heightened your most primitive impulses/responses.

Let me ask, how come other ideas/theories are not found posted with-in this superiority complex discussion topic? I'm not just talking about my views; let's bring in all the Occupy Bioware Conspiracies that are quite popular with the spooks on these boards. If you really feel you are the collector of all things, collect puppet.

You won't. Why? Because in the end you are still projecting what you to happen with the ending; and for that exact reason Bioware will just ignore you until you fade away.

Blind loyalty with a pinch hint of close-minded ignorance, it's almost-Christian like....

CDRSkyShepard wrote...
If, in the end, my opinion does not, in fact, matter, then BioWare is the ultimate fan troll of all time. They tell us that our opinions and feedback do matter to them. If it doesn't in reality, then they're outright lying to us, and we have bigger issues to worry about.

I'll be honest, after awhile; reading the same paragraphs over and over on why you deserve special treatment becomes tiring. Must be nice thinking you're so entitled....

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

Having an opinion about a product is also the hallmark of a responsible consumer. If businesses are smart, they'll respect their consumers and their opinions. Any time spent taking a business class will tell you that much. I'll direct you to this article by Forbes, which is very well respected in the business world. This quote in particular is what I want to showcase:

As far as I can tell, it basically comes down to this: being a smart consumer is more than just voting with your wallet. Half the time it’s too late for that. It’s easy to say “Well, if you don’t like the product, don’t buy it” but it doesn’t really work that way in practice.

I think that this also debunks your argument about how we're the laughingstock of the media right now. Penny Arcade doesn't think there's anything bad about the endings, but they aren't saying anything horrible about us, either. Forbes is basically jumping in to defend us as consumers against Destructoid and IGN, who are really the only two I can think of right off the top of my head who are really coming down hard. Even Kotaku, while at first wasn't a fan of our movement, changed their tune.

This Forbs article debate shows just how uninformed your movement actually is; and I laugh every time its referenced. Look, Forbes is nothing more than an elaborate financial news site with verticals. The equivalent to this would be the most popular news site on the net, The Huffington Post.

Huffington Post has a series of topics which are known as verticals. These verticals need content; in order to fill that content they hire off-the-street bloggers to fill in the voids.

Just because Forbes has some random blogger post an article about ME3 does not mean that Forbes the company supports the comments. This is on the blogger. If anything these bloggers will keep posting about ME3 because they know its easy carbs. Easy carbs as in easy clicks. Easy clicks because they know a riled up mob when they see one; and they want to cash in on their stupidity. It's almost like when they write articles about the Tea Party or Occupy, they view you as nothing more than passionate freaks.

Guaranteed assets to fill up the coffers.

In the end, some people just choose not to lose their sense of self and discuss the plot like human beings instead of joining the cult-like hivemind that exists on the boards right now...

...and then you have the group that feels they are just intellectually superior to others.

Guess I proved them wrong.

Check and Mate.

Every single one of your points was an ad hominem wraped in some psedo-intellectual nonsense. Oh yes, some lack of evidence also. You keep saying wrong but give no evidence to the contrary other then ancedotes and opinion. So all evidence points to you being a troll.

Check.

[Moirai]

Easy, guys,

We're all a bit uptight and upset at the moment. I certainly am, and it's easy to end up directing our frustration in any direction that appears to grant a tiny bit of satisfaction. But if we're all jumping down each other's throats, Bioware will just try to wiggle out of this.

We're all going to have slightly different viewpoints and reasons why we liked or disliked the way the endings played out. But let's try to present a reasonably unified front for a common goal.

And that goes for me too. I've got very snappy and sarky over the last few days as well. And whereas I do find that a bit of healthy sarcasm is good for my soul on occasions, now, more than ever, I need to watch where I'm directing it.

Modifié par Moirai, 17 mars 2012 - 07:02 .

[RubiconI7]

MintyCool wrote...

Ninja Edit

First, never had this thread claimed to be the voice of the public. It is simply a list of grievances shared by most of us here on the forums.

This may be what you want to believe, but in the end it is simply not true. This topic you created proves it. Under the conditions of this board you lost your individuality and became absorbed by the mob like atmosphere, this in turn heightened your most primitive impulses/responses. 

Let me ask, how come other ideas/theories are not found posted with-in this superiority complex discussion topic? I'm not just talking about my views; let's bring in all the Occupy Bioware Conspiracies that are quite popular with the spooks on these boards. If you really feel you are the collector of all things, collect puppet. 

Second. Primnitive impulses/responses caught up the in mob like atmosophere. I agree that this may often be the case in a "mob like atmosphere". However, I do not understand why a logic dissection of the grievances of the ending can be interpreted as a primitive and impulsive response. Reading many of the arguments posted in the OP and the links by the community, one can surely see that these responses are written by level-headed and rational individuals expressing their concers and displeasures in a civil and rational manner.

Also, many other discussions about the grievances of the ending are in-fact found in the OP. Links directing readers to other great points made about what is wrong with it. That is the point of the title actually, a list of grievances compiled. From many other sources that share the vision that the ending had many things wrong with it.

This Forbs article debate shows just how uninformed your movement actually is; and I laugh every time its referenced. Look, Forbes is nothing more than an elaborate financial news site with verticals. The equivalent to this would be the most popular news site on the net, The Huffington Post. 

Huffington Post has a series of topics which are known as verticals. These verticals need content; in order to fill that content they hire off-the-street bloggers to fill in the voids.

Just because Forbes has some random blogger post an article about ME3 does not mean that Forbes the company supports the comments. This is on the blogger. If anything these bloggers will keep posting about ME3 because they know its easy carbs. Easy carbs as in easy clicks. Easy clicks because they know a riled up mob when they see one; and they want to cash in on their stupidity. It's almost like when they write articles about the Tea Party or Occupy, they view you as nothing more than passionate freaks.

Third. Of course, the opinion pieces does not reflect the opnion of the website itself. However, these random bloggers that fill the void of verticals are picked by the websites. We are not saying Forbes endorse our movement, we are saying that Forbes acknolwdges this movement and care enough about it to think that having an article about it on their site will boost their views. That is a victory in the movement itself. In the end, bringing more awareness so that change can occur. 

They may indeed view as "passionate freaks", bu these freaks also bolster their "carbs" as you put it. Paul Krguman said something along the liens of "Any economic institution that does not respect their consumers are [preparing] for a death scentence". Speaking of which, Paul Krugman, an opinion piece writer on economics in the NYT is also technically a "freelance" writer that cash in on the "passionate freaks" opinion's on the failing economy. His views however, are still extremely respected in the business world.

Your claim on us being passionate freaks and that we are just being treated as such by the PRs of EA are actually very nicely explained here. Take a look, very intersting stuff. (Also in the OP)

http://social.biowar...ndex/10084349/1 

In the end, some people just choose not to lose their sense of self and discuss the plot like human beings instead of joining the cult-like hivemind that exists on the boards right now...

...and then you have the group that feels they are just intellectually superior to others. 

Guess I proved them wrong.

Check and Mate.  

This final part I truly do not understand.
Why do you think that people who think the ending is bad have lost their sense of self?
Why do you think we have discussed the plot unlike human beings?
Why do you think we are intellectually superior?

The fact that so many are unsatisfied with the ending must have some indication about the quality of the ending no? 
Have we not discussed the topic of the endings in a civil, rational manner? Granted some of us articulate better and some of us devote the time to write long posts about it. Why? Precisely because we have invested so much in to the story and characters. We want change be cause we love.
We have tried tried to voice our opinions as best as possible, if some of you think that starting this thread is based on a twisted feeling of elevated self-worth, let me, at least, be frank. This thread, to me, is simply a compilation of the grievances shared by the community. We are in no way saying that we are right and we must make Bioware change the ending, we are simply saying what we believe is wrong with it.

Now, I guess we should just agree to disagree and stay classey...and please stop with the insulting insinuations and sarcasms. It hurts my feelings.

Modifié par RubiconI7, 17 mars 2012 - 07:14 .

[ericjdev]

Moirai wrote...

Easy, guys,

We're all a bit uptight and upset at the moment. I certainly am, and it's easy to end up directing our frustration in any direction that appears to grant a tiny bit of satisfaction. But if we're all jumping down each other's throats, Bioware will just try to wiggle out of this.

We're all going to have slightly different viewpoints and reasons why we liked or disliked the way the endings played out. But let's try to present a reasonably unified front for a common goal.

And that goes for me too. I've got very snappy and sarky over the last few days as well. And whereas I do find that a bit of healthy sarcasm is good for my soul on occasions, now, more than ever, I need to watch where I'm directing it.

Well said, we aren't winning this thing without some patience and civility. When we pop off we feed the misconception that we are a band of entitled kooks.

[sAxMoNkI]

Cracking thread, good work OP getting this all collated

[Beba]

*salutes*

[LittleDeadGirl]

Great job. Summed up most of my problems with the ending. I also want to add my biggest problem is with Synthesis as an ending. It makes no logical sense how this can even occur and it flies philosophically in the face of what the games has preached over and over again : acceptance of diversity. It is said over and over again our cycle is the one to have a real chance against the reapers because we are different and accept our differences. So in the end the best option with the least amount of bloodshed is the one where we are all the same?

I also want to add I agree whole heartedly with the fact I am in no way bashing Bioware or the writers. I LOVE Bioware. I have true respect and affection for the writers and artists and the folks that worked so hard and made this series my favorite by far. I have never ever fell so in love with so many characters. I still smile and think about Mordin on a bad day at work. I just want Bioware to realize it made a mistake and to realize if it wants to continue being such a fan favorite and hailed as such an amazing company it needs to deliver an amazing product.

[Aligalipe]

Nice Work OP! You' ve really worked hard for this. We appreciate it.

[starjay001]

This MINTYCOOL person is high on his/her head. These kind of people are one of the many reasons the gaming industry is what it is today - a pack of money mongering wolves hiding under sheep's clothing. I think folks should focus their efforts to snuff out persons like these first. Once they are silenced.. the guns can be trained on ME3's ending. Personally I don't like the endings BUT the end result all depends on Bioware. The ball is in their court. Whether they truly listen to fans remains to be seen. This is their biggest test of all time, here and right now.

[Giltspur]

I found the ending narratively unsatisfying.  ME3 ends with a choice that you don't really see the consequences of.  The Turian/Krogan/Salarian, Geth/Quarian, Asari and Ceberus all have better "endings" than the main game does.

Problem 1: Less Interesting than the Rest of the Game
It isn't interesting compared to the rest of the game.  The ending's treatment of organics vs synthetics is more simplistic and less satisfying than in other parts of the game.  In the Turian/Quarian section, we got to see how control by the Quarians created conflct and were able make decisions about trusing Geth with Reaper upgrades that made them more individualistic.  (Sadly, we didn't get to use this  knowledge to counter the Catalyst's statements about creations always rebelling. The Geth during ME3 seem to be a counterexample.  In other words, this section is more nuanced than the ending.)  We also see EDI's reprogramming herself because of her observations of Shepard of Joker.  That was also a more interesting idea than the bland statements made by the catalyst.  So the ending fails to be thought-provoking because it's less thoughtful than the sections that have come before.  

Problem 2: Doesn't Make Sense
The main issue here is "space magic". By "space magic" I mean the Crucible's ability to rewrite DNA of living beings everywhere in the galaxy during the synthesis ending or somehow destroy all syntehtics in the destroy ending.  (I haven't thought enough about the control ending to comment here.)  "Magic" is only interesting when it makes a decision tough somehow, when it has a cost.  Here it's a just a three-way solution dropped onto the end of the trilogy.  It's like "Bam, here's a choice after having found out about the origin of the Reapers."  It's not a tough choice like the Rachni Queen or the Collector Base.  It's a weird, disconnected choice made possible by some hard-to-fathom technology that hasn't been a source of interesting conflict throughout the story.

The other thing that doesn't make sense: the mass relay destructions.  I guess this is a consequence of deploying the Crucible.  At least that's the in-game explanation.  I don't know why that's cool though.  I understand Mordin's sacrifice.  It had to be him.  It was tied into his life story.  But what is the sacrifice of the mass relays for the deployment of the Crucible all about?  Why is that interesting?  Tragedy should be revelatory.  I'm not sure what this reveals about the choice you have to make.  It seems like darkness for the sake of darkness--for the feeling of depth and weight that isn't really there.

Problem 3: No Closure
In a way, ME3 feels like it has no ending.  It ends with a choice that you don't really see the consequences.  All you see are the mass relays and the "Garden of Eden" bit.  But what happens to the galaxy if you choose synthesis or control or destroy?  You don't find out.  I feel that in most cases an ending should provide an answer not raise a question that it doesn't answer.  Now, if it's a compelling question, maybe it can pass.  But in "Problem 1" I've said why I don't think the question is compelling.  What about Inception?  That ended on a question and was cool.  But in that movie, what was going on was always a question and was even more interesting than the characters were.  That whole movie is built around giving you clues to that final scene.  I can't say the same for Mass Effect.  Mass Effect trilogy feels like a character story that didn't end with closure for its characters. 

[hckf2]

I've got some new mediafor you to add to the OP.

It's another article by the german site:
http://www.gamestar....7308&lid=166120

It pretty much is about how we go over 50k and that "even on Mars thy know now that many fans unhappy with the ending"

also there is a poll:
http://www.gamestar....id=842&pk=13537

Grey: I'm not done yet playing
Light blue: ending destroyed the whole series
Orange: Disappointed
Green: Could be better
Red: Unexpected, but okay
Deep blue: exactly what I wanted

Modifié par hckf2, 17 mars 2012 - 08:12 .

[Mitra]

I agree with everything CDRSkyShepard wrote.
All I ever wanted was for my choices and actions to count.
All I was hoping for is a happy end, ultimate hero and savior of the galaxy end, and a good place to continue to live with my love interest and friends with who my goddess heroine will rebuild the Galaxy.

WE WILL HOLD THE LINE! WE STAND UNITED AS NEVER BEFORE! KEEP UP THE PRESSURE! WE SHALL PREVAIL!

[Moirai]

Forbes again:

www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/03/17/former-bioware-designer-brent-knowles-on-day-one-dlc-and-the-mass-effect-of-public-relations/


It's starting to loop around a bit now though...

[Coreniro]

We want changes because we care!
Now say it while you're crying. It's better this way.