1634 réponses à ce sujet

[Xellith]

They will fix this or Bioware is gonna crash and burn hard. I want my wildly different endings. I want a happy ending where I retire to Rannoch with Tali. I want a terrible ending like the one we get for when im lazy as hell.

I want endings that represent my choices. I want some damn replay value.  An ending for everyone - WHICH IS WHAT WAS ADVERTISED!

Modifié par Xellith, 19 mars 2012 - 11:57 .

[FyreSyder]

You MUST watch this video. It's VERY long (about 30 miuntes) so be wary. 
I would suggest putting in the original post.  

He has some INCREDIBLE thoughts about what the Crucible could be and some brilliant ideas about an epilogue. i hope more people get to watch it, he deserves it.

Modifié par FyreSyder, 19 mars 2012 - 01:00 .

[bleetman]

FyreSyder wrote...

You MUST watch this video. It's VERY long (about 30 miuntes) so be wary. 
I would suggest putting in the original post.  

He has some INCREDIBLE thoughts about what the Crucible could be and some brilliant ideas about an epilogue. i hope more people get to watch it, he deserves it.

I actually love his proposed idea for a different ending. That's the kind of twist I would've been pretty pleased with, in an 'unexpectadely awesome' kind of way.

[Cambios]

They really need to do something about these horrible endings.

My Commander Shepard busted his ass to keep his crew alive and unite the galaxy. This should be reflected in a heroic, "happy" ending with Shepard and his crew on top.

Holding the line...

[Lichtgestaltt]

Cambios wrote...

They really need to do something about these horrible endings.

My Commander Shepard busted his ass to keep his crew alive and unite the galaxy. This should be reflected in a heroic, "happy" ending with Shepard and his crew on top.

Holding the line...

^

Also I really like this above posted ending vid www.youtube.com/watch
I went like:" YES LIKE THAT!"

Modifié par Lichtgestaltt, 19 mars 2012 - 06:52 .

[Spyre2001]

bleetman wrote...

FyreSyder wrote...

You MUST watch this video. It's VERY long (about 30 miuntes) so be wary. 
I would suggest putting in the original post.  

He has some INCREDIBLE thoughts about what the Crucible could be and some brilliant ideas about an epilogue. i hope more people get to watch it, he deserves it.

I actually love his proposed idea for a different ending. That's the kind of twist I would've been pretty pleased with, in an 'unexpectadely awesome' kind of way.

From what I've seen in the forums as well as listening to that guys alternate ending the more I think BW has royally screwed itself. Because the endings are so bad almost everyone wants a new one. The problem now is that it's just like before release in that everyone has their own opinion on to what extent it should be "fixed".

So that even if our movement for new endings succeeds it's likely there will be some that are not happy with that as it wasn't change the way they wanted. And given how unbelievably they screwed up the ending in the first place I have serious doubts on their judgement when it comes to how to go about fixing it.

I know we are all holding the line but the more time passes the more nervous I get about it. First that BW won't change it. And second that the lapse in common sense and judgement that allowed this horrific ending to happen in the first place will happen again so we'll end up with a slightly less offensive ending.

[Sanrei]

That's my fear. Even if we do get an ending DLC, that it still won't live up to what Bioware is perfectly capable of.

That it will be just as half-assed and rushed as the current ending seems to be.

Modifié par PedEgg, 19 mars 2012 - 09:15 .

[Stealthy Cake]

Awesome tread. Let's keep it at the top of the forums!

[Sanrei]

Holding the line.

I have a friend who thinks this is all a PR stunt.
Apparently the prices of the games have been dropping too. When I go to work in a bit I'll check to see what the prices are like at my store.

[Spyre2001]

PedEgg wrote...

Holding the line.

I have a friend who thinks this is all a PR stunt.
Apparently the prices of the games have been dropping too. When I go to work in a bit I'll check to see what the prices are like at my store.

If this is a PR stunt it's the dumbest one in the history of gaming. The whole Indocronation theory that has gained popular often refers to how Shepard is alive in the debris of London as proof fails to take into account it's probably just the same bad writing that put the crew on the Normandy for the crash.

Also it's a dumb move because not everyone has internet for their consoles or PCs. So the fact that you have to download the "real" ending was all part of a larger plan is likely to ****** people off even more.

Also I've heard the price drop mentioned a few times but have yet to really see places start price dropping. I can see stores like Gamestop putting forth used copies as cheaper than new. This is a very common tactic for retailers that sell used games as they put their used games out front and advertise those prices in the window to grab people's attention. They also do it because they get 100% of the profit and it all goes to the retail store and not to the developer.

Slightly off topic I view used games as equal to piracy because the developer gets the exact same amount in the end. Sure you make yourself feel better by saying it's "legal" but that doesn't make it right. As a result I only buy new even though it cost more.

[FyreSyder]

WHY hasn't this thread picked up more movement? It's the BEST in terms of giving CLEAR information. I will hold strong and support it 'till the end. Hold The Line.

[Spyre2001]

FyreSyder wrote...

WHY hasn't this thread picked up more movement? It's the BEST in terms of giving CLEAR information. I will hold strong and support it 'till the end. Hold The Line.

Probably because it is a reference thread. Reference threads tend to have mostly people posting links to other locations for information. Thus if they don't have any new links to add they don't post, other then if they want to bump.

Thus it has no focused topic, other than the ending sucks, to grasp onto the way some of the other threads do. Also Reference threads are meant to be stickyed so that people can find them to look things up. The fact that all the new post pushes it back a few pages within minutes doesn't help.

Unless we bump it like so.

[CDRSkyShepard]

Hey guys! I'm back from Dallas and have a strong (YAY!) internet connection. I'll be working on updating the OP this evening.

@Spyre - You have a very good point. Lots of fans are starting to try and come up with their own endings to ease the pain, and it makes me wonder how any "new" ending will be received. At this point, even if it doesn't fit with the grandeur of my vision or anyone else's, I'll take it if it makes sense and doesn't screw over the Normandy and crew. Btw, I buy a lot of games used because I just got into gaming a year or so ago, and it's not like you can find ACII new anywhere anymore. XD I even bought ME2 used because I bought it almost a year after it came out...I used to play my friend's game. Lol.

I saw a deal for ME3 on Xbox from Microsoft in my email today...$49.99. The game isn't even 2 weeks old yet and they're doing a special on new copies for fifty bucks. Hm.

[Almostfaceman]

Yes the price drops are telling.

[Spyre2001]

Bump and some of my thoughts from another thread.


I can understand people wanting to have faith in BW so even though they have not yet finished the game they want to believe people are simply over reacting. I can't however understand the people who continue to defend it after having seen the ending.

Some people try to defend it by saying it's a matter of personal opinion or artistic vision but this is simply not the case. It is possible for a story or narritive to be fundementally broken. It's not a matter of if you like it are not the work is objectively bad. Plot holes are a classic example of when a story can be broken, and this ending has LOTS of them. The other is long established characters behaving in a manner completely contrary to their established motivations.

In literature writers often create whole new worlds with scores of characters in it. In the beginning the world is a blank slate free to manifest whatever the author desires. But over time as the world becomes more fleshed out that world becomes like the real world with laws of it's own that must be obeyed.

Slowly the author looses thier freedom to go anywhere as the world takes on a life of it's own. The author can merely add to the world to steer things down a different path. It is this point when "fan entitlement" is often claimed by those who see fans upset with the latest work of whatever they are fans of. The problem is not that simple though as the fans are often upset at a break from the established rules of the world or a key element of that world suddenly changes.

When this happens the fans have every right to be upset. A story is like a set of instructions, First A then B then C and so on. It's like the old joke Step 1 Get something, Step 2 Do Something, Step 3 ????, Step 4 PROFIT. A key part of the instructions is missing, or in this case the story. The fans have every right to know how things got to where they are now, especially when it goes against the established world.

It would be the same as a musician completely changing from classical to disco in the middle of a piece with no transition. Those who came to hear classical music would be rightfully upset. Or a painter switching from impressionistic to surrealism half way through a portrait. The person who paid of an impressionistic portrait of themselves would be upset as well.

The point is once a world has become established then the fans expect a curtain type of return. Art is a product like anything else. If an artist establishes themselves as selling particular product then he has a duty to inform his customers if he plans on changing the product. And shouldn't be surprised they get upset when he doesn't deliver on expectations.

If it were any other product people wouldn't think twice about coming to the defense of disgruntled customers who didn't get the product they were expecting. It's like buying something off an infomercial and finding out it's a cheap knock off that doesn't work that well.

Modifié par Spyre2001, 20 mars 2012 - 03:55 .

[CDRSkyShepard]

I think it's a bit laughable that people talk of "artistic vision" and I'm looking at an ending plot with more holes than Riesen's Swiss Cheese model. Holes work in donuts, wheels, and on boxes you put critters in so they don't die. Holes are as useful in stories as they are in boats.

It baffles me to think that people don't see these things. Or that they see the glaringly obvious and say it's not that big of a deal. I guess if you can see past these things, more power to you...I just can't believe BioWare thought they could give this to us and have us NOT rip it to shreds. To me, it has "we didn't think this one through" written all over it. I think that mostly because when I do think it through, it gets more confusing, not less.

All in all, you know the situation is bad when your former roommate (who introduced you to Mass Effect) calls you in a near-panic: "PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DON'T TELL ME THAT'S THE ENDING!!!" *Enter damage control mode*

[Sanrei]

I'll purposely buy a game used if I don't want to support the developer. We did this for a friend who wanted to play DA2 but after having already purchased it ourselves and being disappointed we weren't really all that excited to add to its sales(and we couldn't just give him our copy, we play PC and he has an XBox).

He ended up trading it in about a month later anyway, and there were no hard feelings.

On the other hand, if we like a game and want to see more like it we will gladly pay a little more for a new copy as a gift or so we can have it on another platform.

I've told anyone who has yet to purchase ME3 to just buy it used, even if the price for a brand new game goes down, simply because at this point I do not see how Bioware/EA deserves any more money for it.

My store is still selling it at full price, BTW. We still have a table up with the guides, both hardcover and paperback, and a nice little pile of the games for all three systems. I didn't check to see how many were on the shelf.


EDIT: When I was checking I spoke with a coworker who works in the software dept who has yet to finish the series. He mentioned this guy: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10065503/27
He claims to have filed a complaint with the BBB and FTC concerning false advertising.
I don't know if it will accomplish anything in the end but it's an interesting idea.

Modifié par PedEgg, 20 mars 2012 - 05:07 .

[FyreSyder]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

I think it's a bit laughable that people talk of "artistic vision" and I'm looking at an ending plot with more holes than Riesen's Swiss Cheese model. Holes work in donuts, wheels, and on boxes you put critters in so they don't die. Holes are as useful in stories as they are in boats.

It baffles me to think that people don't see these things. Or that they see the glaringly obvious and say it's not that big of a deal. I guess if you can see past these things, more power to you...I just can't believe BioWare thought they could give this to us and have us NOT rip it to shreds. To me, it has "we didn't think this one through" written all over it. I think that mostly because when I do think it through, it gets more confusing, not less.

All in all, you know the situation is bad when your former roommate (who introduced you to Mass Effect) calls you in a near-panic: "PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DON'T TELL ME THAT'S THE ENDING!!!" *Enter damage control mode*

I struggle to understand how ANYONE can defend the Ending. It is OBJECTIVELY wrong, rather than a passionate, subjective dislike. 

[CDRSkyShepard]

PedEgg wrote...
EDIT: When I was checking I spoke with a coworker who works in the software dept who has yet to finish the series. He mentioned this guy: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10065503/27
He claims to have filed a complaint with the BBB and FTC concerning false advertising.
I don't know if it will accomplish anything in the end but it's an interesting idea.

The guy who runs the Retake Mass Effect movement on FB and Twitter has renounced this as an acceptable strategy and has asked this guy to distance himself from the movement proper. I agree with him. If people want to do it, that's their own prerogative, but I don't think it's a tactic we should take, either. I certainly don't think we should be encouraging others to do it to "help the cause."

This is a matter between BioWare and the fans. I don't see how getting the Federal government involved in any way, shape, or form will do anything but polarize the fanbase even more and only further those who hold the view that we're whiny and entitled. Frankly, I'm of the political opinion that getting the government involved in anything is a dumb idea, but I digress.

[Sanrei]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

The guy who runs the Retake Mass Effect movement on FB and Twitter has renounced this as an acceptable strategy and has asked this guy to distance himself from the movement proper. I agree with him. If people want to do it, that's their own prerogative, but I don't think it's a tactic we should take, either. I certainly don't think we should be encouraging others to do it to "help the cause."

This is a matter between BioWare and the fans. I don't see how getting the Federal government involved in any way, shape, or form will do anything but polarize the fanbase even more and only further those who hold the view that we're whiny and entitled. Frankly, I'm of the political opinion that getting the government involved in anything is a dumb idea, but I digress.

I don't even think filing complaints like that will do anything, but honestly he has a right as a consumer to file a complaint like that. Chances are though both agencies will likely tell him he doesn't have enough ground to stand on and it'll be closed.
This is a situation where yes, they can technically do whatever they want creatively and we can all just stuff it.
But doing so at the risk of alienating fans is a huge business risk. They'd be stupid not to listen.

I'm all for sending in complaints, but directly to EA/Bioware.

And actually to elaborate: under the right circumstances what he did would be the right recourse and not entitlement or extreme, but I have a feeling after reading further that he did not go to EA first with his complaints and hit a brick wall while attempting to process a return(and looking into that as well I see evidence that they are processing returns for the simple reason that the product did not deliver as stated).

Modifié par PedEgg, 20 mars 2012 - 06:51 .

[HurricaneGinger]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

I think it's a bit laughable that people talk of "artistic vision" and I'm looking at an ending plot with more holes than Riesen's Swiss Cheese model. Holes work in donuts, wheels, and on boxes you put critters in so they don't die. Holes are as useful in stories as they are in boats.

It baffles me to think that people don't see these things. Or that they see the glaringly obvious and say it's not that big of a deal. I guess if you can see past these things, more power to you...I just can't believe BioWare thought they could give this to us and have us NOT rip it to shreds. To me, it has "we didn't think this one through" written all over it. I think that mostly because when I do think it through, it gets more confusing, not less.

All in all, you know the situation is bad when your former roommate (who introduced you to Mass Effect) calls you in a near-panic: "PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DON'T TELL ME THAT'S THE ENDING!!!" *Enter damage control mode*

Poor guy. I didn't scream, I just sobbed like a baby until I passed out.

Luckily you started this thread and the subject is getting the attention it needs to bring about change: the possibility of fixing these endings and receiving the option - I repeat, option - for a happy ending.

[MustacheManatee]

Excellent OP, just excellent.

[Sanrei]

I've been looking into the indoctrination theory a bit more of late and should it be true, I feel there are things I have to consider.

Am I so relieved to know that this was part of the plan that I forgive Bioware for putting me through all that? But what if it's paid DLC? When I purchased the game I knew there'd be DLC, but this is more icing on the DLC cake of bitterness where we argue that much like the 'Ashes' DLC, it should have made up the original bulk of the game. I'd still be very upset.

This reminds me of a situation where a string of practical jokes goes on until someone takes it too far, and the whole thing ceases to be funny or have the same value because of it.

Is Bioware quiet like someone who thought they were being clever only to find out they've only managed to ****** people off, or are they quiet like someone whose big surprise just backfired and now they don't know what to do about it?

Even worse, maybe the theory is true but this is also all they expected us to accept for the ending, and there is only one real way to get out of indoctrination, and that's by choosing the destroy option with full EMS. Which is still pretty crappy.

Most importantly: Should I keep looking into the indoctrination theory and churn up 10 more questions for every hypothetical answer? Or should I just make it easier on myself and just assume they dropped the ball? Oy!

Modifié par PedEgg, 20 mars 2012 - 07:55 .

[sHELLYEA]

Excellent OP!!

HOLD THE LINE!

[Reptilian Rob]

Bump this for win!