1634 réponses à ce sujet

[Moirai]

Is it just me, or does anyone else feel that we have we overlooked where the population of the Citadel disappeared to?

EDIT: Ugh, my grammar... Too tired to change it...

Modifié par Moirai, 20 mars 2012 - 12:05 .

[SpeedDevil89]

I would assume that they are among the corpses in the Keeper tunnels, where you end up after going through the beam.

Modifié par SpeedDevil89, 20 mars 2012 - 01:09 .

[Shallyah]

I had managed to miss this post. Thanks for bumping it.

[REMoyen2]

Great compilation. I will throw up what I wrote in another thread about what I felt for the ending to be 'fixed'.

I feel the endings were fine so long as the 'Indoctrination Theory' is held onto. Then if Shepard chooses Control or Synthesis you see the ending per normal leaving is very 'odd', if you will, and then show that the Reapers won wiping out all Advance Life, including the destruction of your Galactic Fleet and Squad (Normandy Included). This of course would be the worst possible endings. Then if you choose Destroy you break the Indoctrination, wake up, fight Harbinger and/or TIM, use the crucible for its intended purpose and based on EMS 1) Ultimate super happy ending 2)Sustain losses but win - maybe lose a member or 2. 3)Sustain heavy losses but win - die/survive based on para/reg decision 4)Go out fighting like a champion and win while sustaining heavy losses 5)Lose, but go out fighting to the very last soldier. Then of course the epilogue would reveal the success or failure of decisions and war - show ending for each race and member of squad then top it off with what/how they live a couple years later. Mass Relays stay intact, as does the Citadel.

This is what I envision based on what is there, most of it is how I expected to play out based on the hype and Bioware's comments. Obviously I could polish it out more.

[SpeedDevil89]

Going through a second playthrough, I noticed that in the sequence where the Citadel arms open, the Crucible seems to be approaching from the 'top' side (ie. top of Presidium Tower), but in a later sequence it attaches to the bottom of the Tower. Was that just me or did anybody else notice that? Because if it actually happened, it only shows sloppy work...

Also, Im pretty sure that it has been addressed somewhere before, but in th cutscene at 'Gilligan's Planet' following the Destroy choice, both my squadmates in the last fight emerged from the Normandy (at the time I had my LI and Javik in squad, but judging from the previous playthrough, the endings always show the LI emerging from the Normandy, followed by Javik or EDI, depending on choice).

Modifié par SpeedDevil89, 20 mars 2012 - 01:27 .

[Fuzzfro]

Great thread.
Free bump.

[quiksilver723]

Found another article that I don't think you had listed if you wanna add it:
 http://pixelatedgeek...aws-of-victory/

Modifié par quiksilver723, 20 mars 2012 - 01:27 .

[Moirai]

SpeedDevil89 wrote...

I would assume that they are among the corpses in the Keeper tunnels, where you end up after going through the beam.

True. But what bothers me is the fact that there were thousands of people on the Citadel (possibly tens of thousands), plus hordes of refugees, and it's never explained what happened to them or how they were killed, or whether some even escaped.

Any which way you cut it, that's a heck of a lot of people potentially dead, and it's just glossed over in the game as if that huge number of people pretty much didn't matter to anyone. I only played ME3 once, but I don't ever remember anyone mentioning them with any concern, if at all...

Just seems like Bioware couldn't be bothered at that stage as it was at the end and everyone was more concerned with the Crucible business.

[rexx1888]

show us this medium can grow, give us something worthy of the bioware name, not something hacked apart and ****e just because some dufus wanted to be 'different'

[Aidan Rhane]

Moirai wrote...

Any which way you cut it, that's a heck of a lot of people potentially dead, and it's just glossed over in the game as if that huge number of people pretty much didn't matter to anyone. I only played ME3 once, but I don't ever remember anyone mentioning them with any concern, if at all...

Pretty much the entire ending is glossed over though, so at least it's consistent. See how fun this speculating is?

[Nurane]

When there is time to update the OP:

The story made the BBC (www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17444719)

[SpeedDevil89]

Moirai wrote...

True. But what bothers me is the fact that there were thousands of people on the Citadel (possibly tens of thousands), plus hordes of refugees, and it's never explained what happened to them or how they were killed, or whether some even escaped.

I'd like to point out that the area you arive is but a tiny party of the Citadel, and if you take the time to look around as you pass over the Chasm (did I spell that right?) you see that there are plenty more of those tunnels. I'll go a morbid here, but given the state of the bodies there, they can be more than what you'd expect. Don't get me wrong, I'm with you on this one, however, at the point this war is at, it is much easier to focus on those you know, rather than those whose fate is unknown.

One other thing.... I'm assuming the console that controls the arms is below the Presidium Tower, right? So.... is the ground there facing outwards or inwards? It may be just me picking over every little thing, but as I think about it, it seems like Shepard 'ascends' into the Presidium Tower instead of the Crucible.

Modifié par SpeedDevil89, 20 mars 2012 - 01:54 .

[Subject M]

FyreSyder wrote...

You MUST watch this video. It's VERY long (about 30 miuntes) so be wary. 
I would suggest putting in the original post.  

He has some INCREDIBLE thoughts about what the Crucible could be and some brilliant ideas about an epilogue. i hope more people get to watch it, he deserves it.

Hello, a lowly free-form RPG -designer and writer here.

I very much agree with his notion of the very ending/epilogue.

But let me point out a few things:

-We are probably stuck with the "talks with the catalyst ending" and that the reapers are actually there to solve the problem of chaotic cataclysmic conflict between organics and Synthetics. I think any new ending must be based on that established setting. See this post  social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9961224/for details on how it could be done. This does not fix the ending for those who can not live with the catalyst and his notions of keeping the balance in the galaxy, but it is an attempt to fix many of the strange plot-holes and unsatisfying endings that comes with it.

The reapers should not be beatable in battle. Even with the main bulk of the united fleets of the galactic races, they are fighting an overwhelming foe that you could think of as the avatars of the galactic history. The reapers are the distillate of thousands of civilizations. Even if "sword" manages to take down a couple of reapers (by focusing all their fire on targets), they would just be flanked by reapers arriving to the sol system to beat down the rebellion of the younger races.

Modifié par Subject M, 20 mars 2012 - 01:54 .

[Mnementh2230]

Shameless bump, because Bioware won't sticky.

[NekOoNinja]

58.1% of 22890 votes at the GameStar poll stated that "It ruined the whole franchise" followed by 19.6% who said "You're crazy, I haven't finished playing yet" followed by the leftovers 8.3% who is "Rather disappointed" 5.9% "Different, but good" 4.9% "okay" and 3.1% "Very good, exactly what I had in mind"

That from a german poll alone. One could argue that the unhappiest voices cry the loudest, but wouldn't agree. If not for the last bit, we'd be singing praises and throwing clips of money and MSpoints at EAware, and the polls would be defended by the very same people who love the series.

[chkchkchk]

This is a brilliant summary. It must have taken a lot of work. Good stuff!

[Mnementh2230]

Another shameless bump, just because.

[Moirai]

SpeedDevil89 wrote...

I'd like to point out that the area you arive is but a tiny party of the Citadel, and if you take the time to look around as you pass over the Chasm (did I spell that right?) you see that there are plenty more of those tunnels. I'll go a morbid here, but given the state of the bodies there, they can be more than what you'd expect. Don't get me wrong, I'm with you on this one, however, at the point this war is at, it is much easier to focus on those you know, rather than those whose fate is unknown.

Oh, I appreciate that we only arrive at a tiny tiny part. My point really was, in a arguably very round about way, that it's just another example of incredible end game laziness on Bioware's part by not explaining how either the Reapers killed tens of thousands of people off all over the Citadel, or whether Shepard does so in picking one of a couple of different colours...

For what is arguably a pretty massive event in the ME universe, war or not, there is no real exposition regarding it.

Again, it's just another example of what I found extremely unsatisfying about the end.

Modifié par Moirai, 20 mars 2012 - 05:09 .

[Noone of Importance]

its also how the ending is only tangentally related to actions that bother us

for instance (a quick example that is already an improvement) we see an ending where when you open the citadel up hackett sends over a science team to coordinate this end of the crucible,

any survivors of the following list appear
Admiral Daro'Xen
A Geth Prime
Dr Gavin Archer,

if only one is alive they suggest tuning the crucible to synthetic intelligence this will kill all VI AI and geth and old machines, this will cause months to years of issues and mean sacrificing the geth,

if two are alive they offer a second option as well in which the tuning can be done to old machine technology this will kill all old machines but burn out / cripple the citadel and the relays but not destroy them, this will cause many problems but the geth and migrant fleet if still alive can work to fix the problem while the geth study the relays and attempt to repair/reactivate them,

if all three are alive AND sheppard has maxed reputation bar, then a third option is also presented the signal can be tuned and channeled through a variation of the Geth/Overlord interface permitting temporary transmission of a control signal to all old machines, this will not damage the mass relays but will only work through sheer force of will and a few moments, enough for a single command at most, if this option is taken strange images are seen as Sheppard briefly interacts with the old machine's code and a simultaneous paragon / renegade interrupt is offered, if paragon is taken the old machines are ordered to leave the galaxy alone and leave, if the renegade is taken they are ordered to burn in hell and all fly into the sun,

if none of the above options are taken then depending on EMS either the allied fleet is destroyed, the old machines flee after loosing most of their number but the fleet is all but destroyed, the old machines are destroyed but only a fraction of the fleet survives, the old machines are destroyed with heavy losses,

also instead of starchild thing, harbinger sends a holoimage to taunt and threaten during final confrontation

[UndefinedM]

i hope it hasn't been asked already but i couldn't find it in the banners list..is there an "italian fleet" banner? or should i just go with the european fleet one?
thanks

[Spyre2001]

Moirai wrote...

Any which way you cut it, that's a heck of a lot of people potentially dead, and it's just glossed over in the game as if that huge number of people pretty much didn't matter to anyone. I only played ME3 once, but I don't ever remember anyone mentioning them with any concern, if at all...

This is one of the other things that make the fans feel like their choices were completely pointless. After my converstation with TIM and how the Citadel was the catalyst but was already taken to Earth I thought, "Wait what? So all those people I helped through out the game are now dead? Helping them was completely pointless as it doesn't matter one way or the other. Except for maybe some score points.

Much like with the rest of the galaxy getting screwed over due to the lack of Relays, lets just assume them blowing up didn't destroy star systems. What was the point of making peace if they never going to see each other again? It's like the US, China, and Russia working together to stop an asteroid from hitting Earth but ultimately only manage to break the asteroid up enough so that most of it misses the Earth but enough hits it to send us all back to the stone age. Yea that's a bittersweet victory as life still goes on but if they had refuse to work together and one of them still managed the same outcome then in the end their unity was pointless.

Personally though I'm getting tired of these choose A, B, or C endings. So many games your choices are laid out along the way but at the end it always comes down to pick one regardless of what you did before.

I'd like to see more games have the guts to say, "No you made this choice way back when so you can't do that." Like with the Genophage Mordin kept saying "Someone else might get it wrong." Yet I hear if you had Mordin die in ME2 someone else just takes his place and does everything he does including the sacrifice. I think it would of been telling if the other guy had not made the sacrifice because he wasn't good enough to catch the sabotage thus simply thought uploading the cure was enough.

It's like the old "It's a wonderful Life" movie. All the changes that happen in the town. Since he never lived he was not there to save that guy from drowning so that guy was then not there to save the platoon in the war. The ripples of a choice made should reflect outward causing increased deviation from the norm. It shouldn't simply be, "Ok. So this new guy fills that role instead." That "new" guy should of been there anyway even if it was a minor role otherwise it feels like a cheap trick with the illusion of choice.

This is the problem BW has created. Had they given us the satisfying ending we asked for many minor things would of been easily overlooked. But because of this outrage we examine the whole thing under a microscope and find every tiny little flaw in it. A few plot holes are sometimes forgivable if they are minor and take the audience to the place they want to go. But when they are huge and drag the audience to places they don't want to go then the whole work comes into question as well as the writer's sense of judgement to make such gapping lapse in logic.

[Spyre2001]

Subject M wrote...

-We are probably stuck with the "talks with the catalyst ending" and that the reapers are actually there to solve the problem of chaotic cataclysmic conflict between organics and Synthetics. I think any new ending must be based on that established setting. See this post  social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9961224/for details on how it could be done. This does not fix the ending for those who can not live with the catalyst and his notions of keeping the balance in the galaxy, but it is an attempt to fix many of the strange plot-holes and unsatisfying endings that comes with it.

The reapers should not be beatable in battle. Even with the main bulk of the united fleets of the galactic races, they are fighting an overwhelming foe that you could think of as the avatars of the galactic history. The reapers are the distillate of thousands of civilizations. Even if "sword" manages to take down a couple of reapers (by focusing all their fire on targets), they would just be flanked by reapers arriving to the sol system to beat down the rebellion of the younger races.

I agree that we are likely stuck with the God child ending as much as people hate it. To change it would mean BW would have to admit they made a major mistake. Instead we are likely to get an Epilogue DLC kind of similar to what Prince of Persia did after the vague ending it had where the main villain you spent the whole game trying to prevent from being unleashed into the world is actually unleashed into the world by the player in order to save the Princess. It just made you go HUH!?!

The same goes for the Reapers being unbeatable through normal warfare. They are a race millions of years old with technology far better than our own. It takes multiple ships to take down one of thiers. And they have huge fleets the size of the one around Earth attacking multiple worlds across the galaxy. And the fleets at Earth are most of the military force left in the galaxy. The Reapers have greater numbers and greater tech so there is no way to win without some ace in the hole.

I also wrote up how I think they could of done the Epilogue, which honestly I feel if they had added a proper Epilogue the forums would not be ablaze. Sure people would be arguing if the god child was dumb or not but overall the opinions would of been more positive because they got closure. The link to that thread is below.

http://social.biowar...5/index/9849531

From the dev comments though and rethinking the final moments of the game. It seems that some of the devs thought saying your final goodbyes before the epic battle was suppose to be the closure for those characters. Also the defeat at the Asari Temple and Shepard then talking about how they may actually lose, along with the slow defeatist attitude Shepard seems to start getting after that point. Then combined with the speech Anderson gives about just being tired I think is suppose to portray that by the time Shepard reaches the god child she is on her last leg emotionally and can barely carry on anymore. So when the child offers her a solution she just accepts it. I think that's what they were trying to go for, it's DUMB but I think that the too tired to carry on Shepard was their intent.

I like to think of Shepard as futuristic Batman. No matter the odds he never gives up. Although sometimes he pretends to give up to trick the enemy.

[MustacheManatee]

I wonder if there is a Fringe like parallel universe where the endings were awesome, varied, and satisfying. A universe where this forum is full of "who was your love interest polls", or "when are we taking back Omega?" threads. . .

[CDRSkyShepard]

MustacheManatee wrote...

I wonder if there is a Fringe like parallel universe where the endings were awesome, varied, and satisfying. A universe where this forum is full of "who was your love interest polls", or "when are we taking back Omega?" threads. . .

There is. In that universe, Drew wrote the story.

Yay! New articles! I'll get them posted as soon as possible.

[Reptilian Rob]

MustacheManatee wrote...

I wonder if there is a Fringe like parallel universe where the endings were awesome, varied, and satisfying. A universe where this forum is full of "who was your love interest polls", or "when are we taking back Omega?" threads. . .

If only you knew...

If only you knew...