1634 réponses à ce sujet

[chkchkchk]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

MustacheManatee wrote...

I wonder if there is a Fringe like parallel universe where the endings were awesome, varied, and satisfying. A universe where this forum is full of "who was your love interest polls", or "when are we taking back Omega?" threads. . .

There is. In that universe, Drew wrote the story.

Zing.

(I think the writing is brilliant up until the last fifteen minutes, for the record.)

Modifié par chkchkchk, 20 mars 2012 - 10:07 .

[77bug]

A list of people who publicly dislike the ending would be cool it would take forever thought. Put on the top of that list.

[Maugrim]

Horrible news guys

[Slappy Ya Face]

Well... Damn.

[bleetman]

There's positive feedback about the ending?

I ask not because the idea of people liking it is utterly alien or incomprehensible to me, but because the most I've seen tended to take the form of either a) insulting the people wanting another ending, defending Bioware's "artistic vision" rather than actually countering raised criticisms, or c) bickering over whether one side or the other represents the majority of people who played ME3.

I think I've seen, like, one article debating reasons why the ending is acceptable, and it was effectively just arguing that the rest of the game is great, which is besides the point.

[Subject M]

Spyre2001 wrote...

Subject M wrote...

-We are probably stuck with the "talks with the catalyst ending" and that the reapers are actually there to solve the problem of chaotic cataclysmic conflict between organics and Synthetics. I think any new ending must be based on that established setting. See this post  social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9961224/for details on how it could be done. This does not fix the ending for those who can not live with the catalyst and his notions of keeping the balance in the galaxy, but it is an attempt to fix many of the strange plot-holes and unsatisfying endings that comes with it.

The reapers should not be beatable in battle. Even with the main bulk of the united fleets of the galactic races, they are fighting an overwhelming foe that you could think of as the avatars of the galactic history. The reapers are the distillate of thousands of civilizations. Even if "sword" manages to take down a couple of reapers (by focusing all their fire on targets), they would just be flanked by reapers arriving to the sol system to beat down the rebellion of the younger races.

I agree that we are likely stuck with the God child ending as much as people hate it. To change it would mean BW would have to admit they made a major mistake. Instead we are likely to get an Epilogue DLC kind of similar to what Prince of Persia did after the vague ending it had where the main villain you spent the whole game trying to prevent from being unleashed into the world is actually unleashed into the world by the player in order to save the Princess. It just made you go HUH!?!

The same goes for the Reapers being unbeatable through normal warfare. They are a race millions of years old with technology far better than our own. It takes multiple ships to take down one of thiers. And they have huge fleets the size of the one around Earth attacking multiple worlds across the galaxy. And the fleets at Earth are most of the military force left in the galaxy. The Reapers have greater numbers and greater tech so there is no way to win without some ace in the hole.

I also wrote up how I think they could of done the Epilogue, which honestly I feel if they had added a proper Epilogue the forums would not be ablaze. Sure people would be arguing if the god child was dumb or not but overall the opinions would of been more positive because they got closure. The link to that thread is below.

http://social.biowar...5/index/9849531

From the dev comments though and rethinking the final moments of the game. It seems that some of the devs thought saying your final goodbyes before the epic battle was suppose to be the closure for those characters. Also the defeat at the Asari Temple and Shepard then talking about how they may actually lose, along with the slow defeatist attitude Shepard seems to start getting after that point. Then combined with the speech Anderson gives about just being tired I think is suppose to portray that by the time Shepard reaches the god child she is on her last leg emotionally and can barely carry on anymore. So when the child offers her a solution she just accepts it. I think that's what they were trying to go for, it's DUMB but I think that the too tired to carry on Shepard was their intent.

I like to think of Shepard as futuristic Batman. No matter the odds he never gives up. Although sometimes he pretends to give up to trick the enemy.

Thanks, I will check it out.

[Subject M]

makenzieshepard wrote...

Horrible news guys

Indeed. No need to change those endings besides patching their potholes.

But we also need endings that reflect choice and accomplishment.

Modifié par Subject M, 20 mars 2012 - 10:35 .

[Madecologist]

bleetman wrote...

There's positive feedback about the ending?

People have right to their opinions. But I would be careful if I was BW. First of all, I can tell most people hated the ending. Just most of those didn't care. Not caring you didn't like it doesn't mean you liked it. I am basing this on the fact I do work at a hobby story. I did not see many players thinking the ending was great. Most actually go out of their way to tell us it sucked. Just... they don't care about it in the long run.

Secondly, even those IGN morons and Destructoid morons that keep bashing the movement admit the endings were bad (usually in comment format only, I suspect they don't want to risk loosing sponsers). They just don't believe we have the right to do what we are doing (then insert string of bad isults). Hiding behind arguements that it is okay for games to have bad endings.

Heck even the most caustic person at Destructoid who likes to bash on us on a daily basis said the endings are bad and he totally thinks it is okay for us to slam BW, just think the whole Retake thing is... enter caustic personality mode.

In short BW should be really careful about tooting the 'love' the endings got. Even those sites are leaning to 'no one cares' as opposed to commenting on quality anymore to discredit the movement.

Modifié par Madecologist, 20 mars 2012 - 10:46 .

[CDRSkyShepard]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

MustacheManatee wrote...

I wonder if there is a Fringe like parallel universe where the endings were awesome, varied, and satisfying. A universe where this forum is full of "who was your love interest polls", or "when are we taking back Omega?" threads. . .

If only you knew...

If only you knew...

QUICK QUICK QUICK! Someone make a Back to the Future parody!!!

Doc: *Parks the DeLorean next to BioWare Edmonton in the year 2010*
Drew: *Comes out of the building* "Doc?"
Doc: "Drew! Drew! You have to come back with me!"
Drew: "Doc Brown? ...Where?"
Doc: "Back to the future! Quick, get in the car!"
Drew: "Wait, woah. I can't go anywhere right now! We just launched Mass Effect 2, it's a huge hit, everyone loves it! Casey and I have a lot of work to do."
Doc: "Bring him along, this concerns him, too!"
Drew: "What are you talking about? What happens in the future?"
Doc: "It's Mass Effect 3, Drew! Something has to be done about Mass Effect 3!"
Drew: *Looks confused, gets in the DeLorean anyway* "Doc, you've gotta back up, we don't have enough road to get up to 88!"
Doc: "Hopefully when we fix the mass relays, we won't need roads..."

[Reptilian Rob]

Subject M wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...

Horrible news guys

Indeed. No need to change those endings besides patching their potholes.

But we also need endings that reflect choice and accomplishment.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA OH GOD MY SIDES!

[Reptilian Rob]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

MustacheManatee wrote...

I wonder if there is a Fringe like parallel universe where the endings were awesome, varied, and satisfying. A universe where this forum is full of "who was your love interest polls", or "when are we taking back Omega?" threads. . .

If only you knew...

If only you knew...

QUICK QUICK QUICK! Someone make a Back to the Future parody!!!

Doc: *Parks the DeLorean next to BioWare Edmonton in the year 2010*
Drew: *Comes out of the building* "Doc?"
Doc: "Drew! Drew! You have to come back with me!"
Drew: "Doc Brown? ...Where?"
Doc: "Back to the future! Quick, get in the car!"
Drew: "Wait, woah. I can't go anywhere right now! We just launched Mass Effect 2, it's a huge hit, everyone loves it! Casey and I have a lot of work to do."
Doc: "Bring him along, this concerns him, too!"
Drew: "What are you talking about? What happens in the future?"
Doc: "It's Mass Effect 3, Drew! Something has to be done about Mass Effect 3!"
Drew: *Looks confused, gets in the DeLorean anyway* "Doc, you've gotta back up, we don't have enough road to get up to 88!"
Doc: "Hopefully when we fix the mass relays, we won't need roads..."

[Subject M]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Subject M wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...

Horrible news guys

Indeed. No need to change those endings besides patching their potholes.

But we also need endings that reflect choice and accomplishment.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA OH GOD MY SIDES!

Tell me about the funny part.

[CDRSkyShepard]

makenzieshepard wrote...

Horrible news guys

I don't think @mirta0001 was trying to imply they were affronted, which makes the @masseffect reply make no sense....

I could be wrong.

[Reptilian Rob]

Subject M wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Subject M wrote...

makenzieshepard wrote...

Horrible news guys

Indeed. No need to change those endings besides patching their potholes.

But we also need endings that reflect choice and accomplishment.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA OH GOD MY SIDES!

Tell me about the funny part.

Everything...

[Madecologist]

I don't understand why Bioware is tooting the 'some people loved it!' Even sites that oppose and smear the Retake Movement grudingly (albiet quietly) admit the endings are bad (heck one even said it is okay for us to 'just slam' BW). They are just argueing our stance is incorrect and seem to try to discourage us by saying no one cares and by insulting us.

So if even they admit the ending is bad, what's up with the attempt to convince people there is a lot of fans that like it? It's like they are 2 weeks behind on the propoganda machine....

Modifié par Madecologist, 20 mars 2012 - 10:55 .

[bleetman]

Madecologist wrote...

bleetman wrote...

There's positive feedback about the ending?

People have right to their opinions..

Not saying they didn't. I was saying I hadn't really seen any valid expressions of those opinions in the form of constructive counter arguments.

As in, if there are? And I assume there are? Can people point me in their direction?

[Madecologist]

Did you read the rest of my post. That comment you quoted is a faux start. Basically I set up a nice sounding statement just so that I can slam the point even harder after. Yes it is a very underhanded way to make a point. Considering the amount of PRing that has been going around, I am unable to help myself.

Modifié par Madecologist, 21 mars 2012 - 04:31 .

[bleetman]

Yeah, I got that. It wasn't a "Imma gonna selectively quote a part of your post and show it up out of context" thing.

What I'm asking is, where can I read all this apparent positive feedback that doesn't take the form of "it's fine, quit whining", petty insults or arguing irrelevant issues as though they actually matter? Where are the reasoned, valid counter-arguments? The explanations as to why the ending makes sense that aren't full of holes themselves, or resort to "it's sci-fi, none of it makes sense anyway"? Because I assume there's some out there, but I've yet to see it.

Modifié par bleetman, 20 mars 2012 - 11:06 .

[KRAETZNER]

It's good to see a lot of the problems pointed out in one place. Thank you.

[Madecologist]

I have seen a few posts from people that liked the endings and were sincere and nice about it. But not many. Most tend to have slight breaks in them. Break 1) are those that still point out the same problems we have (but they still like it, go figure), 2) The don't mind the flaws because it is just a game, so it is okay it is not 'good'. (So they don't actually like like it and this group overlaps with group 1.) 3) Those that speak about its beauty, and depth, and the artistic colours and metaphors expressed in the work.

I rarely take 3 seriously because it is like claiming everything is better because it has Grey Poupon on it (basically intelectually wankering and snobery). I think those people only like the ending because they think if they do they are smarter and more cultered than the unwashed masses of gamer that just don't get it.

If I was BW I wouldn't be proud of any of these groups, 1) thinks it has the same problems as the haters, 2) thinks it is okay for you to mess up cause it is just a game, and 3) who wants group 3 as their support? Sadly, some creative people do like this sort of praise but don't realise the damage it does in the long run.

I am sure there is a group of sincere, none snoby, people that love the ending and actually think it is strong, and don't think the flaws we see are problems. They are not as numerous as some people seem to think.

Modifié par Madecologist, 21 mars 2012 - 04:29 .

[chkchkchk]

I don't see loads of threads filled with people in euphoric bliss over the ending.  The rage-to-bliss ratio is pretty obvious.

Madecologist wrote...

I have seen a few posts from people that liked the endings and were sincere and nice about it. But not many. Most tend to have slight breaks in them. Break 1) are those that still point out the same problems we have (but they still like it, go figure), 2) The don't mind the flaws because it is just a game, so it is okay it is not 'good'. (So they don't actually like like it and this group overlaps with group 1.) 3) Those that speak about its beauty, and depth, and the artistic colours and metaphors expressed in the work.

I rarely take 3 seriously because it is like claiming everything is better because it has Grey Poupon on it (basically intelectually wankering and snobery). I think those people only like the ending because they think if they do they are smarter and more cultered than the unwashed masses of gamer that just don't get it.

Nothing wrong with "snobbery" and grey poupon.  It doesn't matter if people's opinions are coherent or not.  
To understand how people feel about the ending, you merely have to measure the raw passion.  Measure the sad faces and the happy faces.  Where is all the gibbering love for the ending?

[CDRSkyShepard]

The fans to BioWare: "There are some...inconsistencies..."

I had to throw that out there, for the laughs.

[Reptilian Rob]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

The fans to BioWare: "There are some...inconsistencies..."

I had to throw that out there, for the laughs.

It's sad, because it's true. 

[MissFish]

So I was talking to my friend today. Very artistic girl... and I'm actually kinda okay with the ending if her idea's are true...

*Disclosure*: I still want an epilouge, but the ending does not need to be changed, IF THE FOLLOWING IS TRUE.

My friend's basic theory is that the whole StarChild scane was some sort of failsafe by the Catalyst creators. Only an un-indoctrinated person would destroy the Reapers. If the destroy option is chosen, the Catalyst fires, and the Shepard hallucination ends.

It's still got alot of holes, but I kinda like it....

Modifié par MissFish, 21 mars 2012 - 02:09 .

[CDRSkyShepard]

MissFish wrote...

So I was talking to my friend today. Very artistic girl... and I'm actually kinda okay with the ending if her idea's are true...

*Disclosure*: I still want an epilouge, but the ending does not need to be changed, IF THE FOLLOWING IS TRUE.

*Breaks into Grease singsong mode* Tell me more, tell me more!