Stuff like that should really be stickied.
The Data Cache: Your One-Stop Retake Resource (UPDATED 6/16!)
Débuté par
CDRSkyShepard
, mars 13 2012 04:43
#776
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 10:11
Leninsaurus
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Very thorough analysis, kudos!
Stuff like that should really be stickied.
Stuff like that should really be stickied.
Retour en haut
#778
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 10:14
WhiteVV1ings
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New article to add among the list. The author supports those who disagree with the current ME3 endings.
BioWare ending to ‘Mass Effect 3’ mars series, but could still be salvaged
BioWare ending to ‘Mass Effect 3’ mars series, but could still be salvaged
Modifié par WhiteVV1ings, 21 mars 2012 - 10:14 .
#779
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 10:30
Cerra23
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Ok my take on the whole matter.
Its not about changing the ending, its building on it. Its VERY incomplete in feel and look. I honestly believe that the best thing that BW can do is embrace & acknowledge the indoctrination theory for whats currently in the game and use it as a launch pad to the finale.
So Sheperd has just spoken to what was a Paragon/Renegade self in avatars of Anderson & TIM and has been given the 2/3 choices by the Child, who I believe is an avatar of Harbinger (the *Main* baddie). All is as it is in game. Instead of the plot-holed Normandy crash, the Citadel scene cuts to an unconsious/regaining consiouness of Sheperd in London. You team is helping you up and you Actually launch the attack proper. Its simple, iys adding a level in afterwards but it can be a level of so much awesomeness that its hard to even put into words. Remember that feeling when the Makos just launched itself from the conduit at Ilos and lands in the presidium and you are rushing headlong into stopping Soveriegn? That was an amazing ending and can/should be repeated here with Harbinger.
So, my real issue is the Normandy crash, it adds nothing and is such a throw-away part that if its removed it starts to make this a lot easier to fix.
C'mon Bioware, you have 1 foot in the door to making this an off the hook amazing game. It just needs you to build on whats there (the indoctrination theory to be proven true) and allow us all to save the day. This can be the best SciFi/ Space Opera experiences of all time, to stand alongside the StarWars or Star Treks.
I am angry at what is currently "the ending" but I love the series dearly and that is the reason, the sole reason, why most of us so dislike the ending. Because we care, possibly too much, if there is such a thing.
Its not about changing the ending, its building on it. Its VERY incomplete in feel and look. I honestly believe that the best thing that BW can do is embrace & acknowledge the indoctrination theory for whats currently in the game and use it as a launch pad to the finale.
So Sheperd has just spoken to what was a Paragon/Renegade self in avatars of Anderson & TIM and has been given the 2/3 choices by the Child, who I believe is an avatar of Harbinger (the *Main* baddie). All is as it is in game. Instead of the plot-holed Normandy crash, the Citadel scene cuts to an unconsious/regaining consiouness of Sheperd in London. You team is helping you up and you Actually launch the attack proper. Its simple, iys adding a level in afterwards but it can be a level of so much awesomeness that its hard to even put into words. Remember that feeling when the Makos just launched itself from the conduit at Ilos and lands in the presidium and you are rushing headlong into stopping Soveriegn? That was an amazing ending and can/should be repeated here with Harbinger.
So, my real issue is the Normandy crash, it adds nothing and is such a throw-away part that if its removed it starts to make this a lot easier to fix.
C'mon Bioware, you have 1 foot in the door to making this an off the hook amazing game. It just needs you to build on whats there (the indoctrination theory to be proven true) and allow us all to save the day. This can be the best SciFi/ Space Opera experiences of all time, to stand alongside the StarWars or Star Treks.
I am angry at what is currently "the ending" but I love the series dearly and that is the reason, the sole reason, why most of us so dislike the ending. Because we care, possibly too much, if there is such a thing.
#780
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 10:34
SpeedDevil89
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PedEgg wrote...
Anyone who hasn't been living under a rock has known for a long time now that even the crappiest of games are hard pressed to get a low score. Most gamers I know look to user reviews and their own experience to judge a game, not by the overwhelmingly top-heavy reviews out there. You can't tell me money has nothing to do with it, either.
Can't argue with that. On the other hand, if I was to review the game and give it a 1 to 10 score, I'd still give it a 10. Overall the game is awesome, except the end... For my 1st playthrough, the ending amounts for less than 0.5% of the total gametime. It really is difficult (at least for me) to give a bad score for only a fraction of the game. Of course, if I went on to write a proper review, that would a different matter.
PedEgg wrote...
The second thing is where he eludes to the fact that the ending was what was envisioned and was artfully crafted by the team.
To be absolutely honest, I really was hoping this was some kind of a publicity stunt (an ill-conceived one) to have us all discussing and theorising and arguing while they withhold they actual ending(s) until a point, rather that it being the actual ending they had envisioned. I understand the need to keep certain deadlines, but I'd rather wait and get a complete masterpiece than get the game earlier with a rushed 'wrap-up' (and it's not even that, is it?).
#781
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 10:50
dbl219
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Another fantastic post on the subject. I'm holding the line!
#782
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 11:05
CDRSkyShepard
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Oy, school. So nice to see you after a week off... /sarcasm
Anyway, there isn't much to do tonight homework-wise, so I'll be working on the OP most of the evening. If stuff starts to look funny, don't be alarmed, I'm working on it. Lol.
Read Dr. Myzuka's open letter during class today. (Yes, Professor? Flight data recorders? What? Is that what we're talking about now? XD) Part of me is glad that one of the co-founders themselves is addressing our concerns and is possibly alluding to a future fix of some kind, but another part was just facepalming through the whole thing. Surely, SURELY, someone had to know that this was sub par. There are too many inconsistencies, too many out-of-character moments for Shepard, and it just feels so darn incomplete and underwhelming. If you move past the initial impressiveness of Shepard's sacrifice and big, pretty explosions, there really is nothing to this ending. Self-sacrifice is all well and good, but, as the meme says, "You're doing it wrong."
I also noticed something rather profound today while I was at school. My school is a small, private university that specializes in the aerospace/aeronautical disciplines (from piloting to engineering), so we have a very high concentration of not only gamers, but sci-fi enthusiasts (i.e. we're all nerds to some extent XD). Mass Effect is a name that exists among Star Trek and Star Wars, held to the same legendary standard. By now, most everyone who cared enough has beaten the game, and the general mood when the subject is brought up is one of bitter disappointment. This is how I expected it to be, but two conversations really, really stuck out to me:
Person 1: "Hey, you have a chance to play Mass Effect 3 yet?"
Person 2: "No, and I'm not sure I'm gonna, I heard the endings were really bad."
Person 1: "I guess you can always rent it."
and the other (different people)...
Person 1: "You play Mass Effect at all?"
Person 2: "Mass Effect...isn't that the one with the crappy ending?"
"...isn't that the one with the crappy ending?"
It was then I realized that Mass Effect...not just the third game, but the entire franchise itself...might well be remembered only as "that story/game with the crappy ending" in the years to come. Mass Effect will die a slow, painful death as "the one with the crappy ending."
How incredibly, truly, and depressingly sad is that? Especially to us, the fans who have been going nuts about this series since it came out. In the end, just like the endings themselves, it just might not matter how much you loved Mass Effect. It's all going to die out, anyway...just like galactic civilization. I think if we put it this way to BioWare, they'll swallow all the "but it's the journey that matters" rehtoric they've been repeating nonstop since the game released. Human beings naturally latch on to the negative better than the positive. It's just the way we are - part of the human condition. That is why it takes years to build up a reputation, and only minutes to destroy it. This is why Empires have been felled by mere scandal. It doesn't matter how awesome everything else is if one item draws enough negativity: that one item can deal a crushing blow. I fear for the franchise, because if BioWare doesn't realize this, this is the death of their IP. If they're smart, even as business people, not just creators, they can't let this happen. They will lose all ability to capitalize on the work they've done...creatively, they will have squandered the incredible universe they've lovingly crafted. I can't think of a worse death for such a beautiful thing.
Hold the line, guys. If not for a better resolution for Shepard and crew, for Mass Effect itself.
Anyway, there isn't much to do tonight homework-wise, so I'll be working on the OP most of the evening. If stuff starts to look funny, don't be alarmed, I'm working on it. Lol.
Read Dr. Myzuka's open letter during class today. (Yes, Professor? Flight data recorders? What? Is that what we're talking about now? XD) Part of me is glad that one of the co-founders themselves is addressing our concerns and is possibly alluding to a future fix of some kind, but another part was just facepalming through the whole thing. Surely, SURELY, someone had to know that this was sub par. There are too many inconsistencies, too many out-of-character moments for Shepard, and it just feels so darn incomplete and underwhelming. If you move past the initial impressiveness of Shepard's sacrifice and big, pretty explosions, there really is nothing to this ending. Self-sacrifice is all well and good, but, as the meme says, "You're doing it wrong."
I also noticed something rather profound today while I was at school. My school is a small, private university that specializes in the aerospace/aeronautical disciplines (from piloting to engineering), so we have a very high concentration of not only gamers, but sci-fi enthusiasts (i.e. we're all nerds to some extent XD). Mass Effect is a name that exists among Star Trek and Star Wars, held to the same legendary standard. By now, most everyone who cared enough has beaten the game, and the general mood when the subject is brought up is one of bitter disappointment. This is how I expected it to be, but two conversations really, really stuck out to me:
Person 1: "Hey, you have a chance to play Mass Effect 3 yet?"
Person 2: "No, and I'm not sure I'm gonna, I heard the endings were really bad."
Person 1: "I guess you can always rent it."
and the other (different people)...
Person 1: "You play Mass Effect at all?"
Person 2: "Mass Effect...isn't that the one with the crappy ending?"
"...isn't that the one with the crappy ending?"
It was then I realized that Mass Effect...not just the third game, but the entire franchise itself...might well be remembered only as "that story/game with the crappy ending" in the years to come. Mass Effect will die a slow, painful death as "the one with the crappy ending."
How incredibly, truly, and depressingly sad is that? Especially to us, the fans who have been going nuts about this series since it came out. In the end, just like the endings themselves, it just might not matter how much you loved Mass Effect. It's all going to die out, anyway...just like galactic civilization. I think if we put it this way to BioWare, they'll swallow all the "but it's the journey that matters" rehtoric they've been repeating nonstop since the game released. Human beings naturally latch on to the negative better than the positive. It's just the way we are - part of the human condition. That is why it takes years to build up a reputation, and only minutes to destroy it. This is why Empires have been felled by mere scandal. It doesn't matter how awesome everything else is if one item draws enough negativity: that one item can deal a crushing blow. I fear for the franchise, because if BioWare doesn't realize this, this is the death of their IP. If they're smart, even as business people, not just creators, they can't let this happen. They will lose all ability to capitalize on the work they've done...creatively, they will have squandered the incredible universe they've lovingly crafted. I can't think of a worse death for such a beautiful thing.
Hold the line, guys. If not for a better resolution for Shepard and crew, for Mass Effect itself.
Modifié par CDRSkyShepard, 21 mars 2012 - 11:06 .
#783
Posté 21 mars 2012 - 11:46
circe
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With all the anger and arguing going on, I'm bumping this thread in hopes of reminding everyone of the positive energy that got this movement mobilized.
Hold the line.
Hold the line.
#785
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 12:36
Spyre2001
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On of the hardest things about this whole debate is trying to explain to non-fans what the big issue is. Just saying the ending has plot holes and inconsitencies as well as lacking closure doesn't really do it justice. As such I've started explaining it to non-ME fans as follows, using Star Wars as a reference since most people know it.
Imagine if you will in Return of the Jedi after Darth Vader throws the Emperor over the railing, he turns to Luke and says, "Now that he is out of the way we can rule the galaxy as father and son." And Luke gets up embracing Darth Vader and says "Sure thing dad!". Followed by the End Credits Rolling.
Everyone who saw that would be like "WTF was that? What about the Rebel fleet? What about Han and Lea on the planet? and etc." No one would be defending it as "Artistic vision" or any of the other claims. Sure you might have a few snobs trying to argue it's a father and son redemption tale which all the detractors just "don't get".
So what do you guys thinks is this a good comparision of what BW did to ME3?
Imagine if you will in Return of the Jedi after Darth Vader throws the Emperor over the railing, he turns to Luke and says, "Now that he is out of the way we can rule the galaxy as father and son." And Luke gets up embracing Darth Vader and says "Sure thing dad!". Followed by the End Credits Rolling.
Everyone who saw that would be like "WTF was that? What about the Rebel fleet? What about Han and Lea on the planet? and etc." No one would be defending it as "Artistic vision" or any of the other claims. Sure you might have a few snobs trying to argue it's a father and son redemption tale which all the detractors just "don't get".
So what do you guys thinks is this a good comparision of what BW did to ME3?
#786
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 12:38
Reptilian Rob
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The even more depessing fact is that the endings are staying the same, we're just going to get "clairification."CDRSkyShepard wrote...
Oy, school. So nice to see you after a week off... /sarcasm
Anyway, there isn't much to do tonight homework-wise, so I'll be working on the OP most of the evening. If stuff starts to look funny, don't be alarmed, I'm working on it. Lol.
Read Dr. Myzuka's open letter during class today. (Yes, Professor? Flight data recorders? What? Is that what we're talking about now? XD) Part of me is glad that one of the co-founders themselves is addressing our concerns and is possibly alluding to a future fix of some kind, but another part was just facepalming through the whole thing. Surely, SURELY, someone had to know that this was sub par. There are too many inconsistencies, too many out-of-character moments for Shepard, and it just feels so darn incomplete and underwhelming. If you move past the initial impressiveness of Shepard's sacrifice and big, pretty explosions, there really is nothing to this ending. Self-sacrifice is all well and good, but, as the meme says, "You're doing it wrong."
I also noticed something rather profound today while I was at school. My school is a small, private university that specializes in the aerospace/aeronautical disciplines (from piloting to engineering), so we have a very high concentration of not only gamers, but sci-fi enthusiasts (i.e. we're all nerds to some extent XD). Mass Effect is a name that exists among Star Trek and Star Wars, held to the same legendary standard. By now, most everyone who cared enough has beaten the game, and the general mood when the subject is brought up is one of bitter disappointment. This is how I expected it to be, but two conversations really, really stuck out to me:
Person 1: "Hey, you have a chance to play Mass Effect 3 yet?"
Person 2: "No, and I'm not sure I'm gonna, I heard the endings were really bad."
Person 1: "I guess you can always rent it."
and the other (different people)...
Person 1: "You play Mass Effect at all?"
Person 2: "Mass Effect...isn't that the one with the crappy ending?"
"...isn't that the one with the crappy ending?"
It was then I realized that Mass Effect...not just the third game, but the entire franchise itself...might well be remembered only as "that story/game with the crappy ending" in the years to come. Mass Effect will die a slow, painful death as "the one with the crappy ending."
How incredibly, truly, and depressingly sad is that? Especially to us, the fans who have been going nuts about this series since it came out. In the end, just like the endings themselves, it just might not matter how much you loved Mass Effect. It's all going to die out, anyway...just like galactic civilization. I think if we put it this way to BioWare, they'll swallow all the "but it's the journey that matters" rehtoric they've been repeating nonstop since the game released. Human beings naturally latch on to the negative better than the positive. It's just the way we are - part of the human condition. That is why it takes years to build up a reputation, and only minutes to destroy it. This is why Empires have been felled by mere scandal. It doesn't matter how awesome everything else is if one item draws enough negativity: that one item can deal a crushing blow. I fear for the franchise, because if BioWare doesn't realize this, this is the death of their IP. If they're smart, even as business people, not just creators, they can't let this happen. They will lose all ability to capitalize on the work they've done...creatively, they will have squandered the incredible universe they've lovingly crafted. I can't think of a worse death for such a beautiful thing.
Hold the line, guys. If not for a better resolution for Shepard and crew, for Mass Effect itself.
So, galaxy is still doomed.
#787
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 12:46
CDRSkyShepard
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Spyre2001 wrote...
On of the hardest things about this whole debate is trying to explain to non-fans what the big issue is. Just saying the ending has plot holes and inconsitencies as well as lacking closure doesn't really do it justice. As such I've started explaining it to non-ME fans as follows, using Star Wars as a reference since most people know it.
Imagine if you will in Return of the Jedi after Darth Vader throws the Emperor over the railing, he turns to Luke and says, "Now that he is out of the way we can rule the galaxy as father and son." And Luke gets up embracing Darth Vader and says "Sure thing dad!". Followed by the End Credits Rolling.
Everyone who saw that would be like "WTF was that? What about the Rebel fleet? What about Han and Lea on the planet? and etc." No one would be defending it as "Artistic vision" or any of the other claims. Sure you might have a few snobs trying to argue it's a father and son redemption tale which all the detractors just "don't get".
So what do you guys thinks is this a good comparision of what BW did to ME3?
I saw a good one not too long ago that was a LotR comparison. I don't remember what all the outcomes were, but in all of them Frodo had to destroy magic as a byproduct of destroying the ring. Lol.
#788
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 01:15
GuardianAngel470
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I've got a review up for Mass Effect 3. It's... long.
I know I reference a blog post about the ending and I intended to write it tonight but I feel like crap because I've been up since 1pm yesterday and it's 5:15pm here now.
I'll write it tomorrow, I promise.
I know I reference a blog post about the ending and I intended to write it tonight but I feel like crap because I've been up since 1pm yesterday and it's 5:15pm here now.
I'll write it tomorrow, I promise.
#789
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 01:22
Greyhound144
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www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/5497-Mass-Effect-3
Ben Yahtzee Croshaw has done
his review of it, whilst he didn’t think the endings were terrible he is a very
IMO reviewer. still see's valve as gods gift to gameing tho...
and probably the best bit refers the ending to
like a balloon flying around the room deflating.
Ben Yahtzee Croshaw has done
his review of it, whilst he didn’t think the endings were terrible he is a very
IMO reviewer. still see's valve as gods gift to gameing tho...
and probably the best bit refers the ending to
like a balloon flying around the room deflating.
Modifié par Greyhound144, 22 mars 2012 - 01:22 .
#790
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 03:35
MissFish
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From the Mass Effect Twitter:
"We are committing to release new content created to address fans' concerns and questions."
*Celebratory confetti*
"We are committing to release new content created to address fans' concerns and questions."
*Celebratory confetti*
#791
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 01:28
Spyre2001
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CDRSkyShepard wrote...
I saw a good one not too long ago that was a LotR comparison. I don't remember what all the outcomes were, but in all of them Frodo had to destroy magic as a byproduct of destroying the ring. Lol.
Well if you happen to find it again please post the link I'd love to read it. I figured SW for the comparision because there was a big battle in space and one on the ground. Both of which tied into the success of the other while having characters in both areas that you cared about.
I suppose I could of added then you see Han warping away and crash landing on some desert planet. Going when did he and the other have time to get picked up. And why did they leave the battle over the Endor, a forest moon?
#793
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 02:11
RockJonRoll
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Fantastic summary of the articles and sentiments of the fans that want a true send off for Shepard.
Thank-you so much!
Thank-you so much!
#794
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 10:52
N7soldier
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bump for great justice!
that is a very good post OP.
that is a very good post OP.
#795
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 10:53
Reptilian Rob
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PR thread has just been locked down.
May want to edit the OP in accordance.
May want to edit the OP in accordance.
#796
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 10:56
LdyBelial
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Reptilian Rob wrote...
PR thread has just been locked down.
May want to edit the OP in accordance.
Yeah... I don't understand why they did that? The excuse given didn't make any sense and certainly didn't clarify anything.
#797
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 11:05
SpeedDevil89
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I might be missing something here.... What PR thread? (link please?)
#798
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 11:09
LdyBelial
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#799
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 11:15
Ultra Prism
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Very comprehensive and organized, keep this alive
#800
Posté 22 mars 2012 - 11:16
CDRSkyShepard
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So it begins.
I want to remind everyone in this thread that there will be no bashing/conspiracy theorizing against BioWare or any associated employees, business partners, etc. This will get us nowhere and will only get the thread locked.
From the beginning, I ensured this topic would be neutral so that it could survive any storm that comes our way. Be patient, stay true, and most important of all, be calm and civil!
I want to remind everyone in this thread that there will be no bashing/conspiracy theorizing against BioWare or any associated employees, business partners, etc. This will get us nowhere and will only get the thread locked.
From the beginning, I ensured this topic would be neutral so that it could survive any storm that comes our way. Be patient, stay true, and most important of all, be calm and civil!
