1634 réponses à ce sujet

[Calamity]

Awesome work and thank you for putting this all together!

[OhManTFE]

Excellent work this would take some time.

[CDRSkyShepard]

I've been compiling some notes as to what to work into the OP, content-wise. Hopefully I'll be done doing edits by tomorrow evening! I hope everyone is enjoying their weekend!

[Reptilian Rob]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

I've been compiling some notes as to what to work into the OP, content-wise. Hopefully I'll be done doing edits by tomorrow evening! I hope everyone is enjoying their weekend!

Kind of, lots of papers to do and working on my novel. 

Still depressed as hell though.

[Headrusher]

Great list! Good job OP!

[TabooTattoo]

http://social.biowar.../index/10594841
(Updated post - newer version of below link - completely translated to english)

http://social.biowar.../index/10578487
(Original post In case you missed the post from the frenchBSN members ~10hrs ago.)

(Edited: for updated link)

Modifié par TabooTattoo, 25 mars 2012 - 09:43 .

[cuzsal]

nice job

Hold the Line!

[NoirLegend]

Awesome Job OP: Hold The Line.

[Apathy1989]

Just watched this

He didn't add anything, only cut from the ending, and its FAR FAR better. I mean I would like an epilogue, but at least this removes the plotholes and weirdness we have now.

Also raises the point, do we need a choice in the end? I don't think so. All our choices should be made before the battle, the only thing left is to see what our choices yield. We definitively don't need a choice if there is no difference between the outcomes and no closure from said choice.

Modifié par Apathy1989, 25 mars 2012 - 10:19 .

[Brug0r]

Great read!

[SpeedDevil89]

Apathy1989 wrote...

Also raises the point, do we need a choice in the end? I don't think so. All our choices should be made before the battle, the only thing left is to see what our choices yield. We definitively don't need a choice if there is no difference between the outcomes and no closure from said choice.

I'd have to agree with that, but probably ain't gonna happen. This was the case in most BW games (including ME2) and I was quite happy with that. This is exactly what is lacking in the current situation. Well, it'd be kinda cool to have one last choise to make and after that the consequences of your actions would be revealed.

[Eliantariel]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

I've been compiling some notes as to what to work into the OP, content-wise. Hopefully I'll be done doing edits by tomorrow evening! I hope everyone is enjoying their weekend!

Excellent! Thank you so much for the great OP!

[Spyre2001]

SpeedDevil89 wrote...

I remember an article in a Greek PC games magazine when they were reviewing a BW game that was either coming out soon or had just been released (at that time) and one of the initial comments described BW as a company with a strong background in RPGs 'that has yet to release a bad title' and many regard Bioware as a company that 'can do no wrong' when it comes to RPGs. I believe that up until DA2 that held true, and while my opinion for DA2 was strongly influenced from DAO, i still found it highly enjoyable all the way to the end. It may not have prompted the same number of playthroughs as DAO, but still quite fun.

Well that's because they were reviewing BW. DA2 was made when EA started flexing their muscle about reworking the development process. Back before DA2 came out I remember reading an article how EA was having a big push to move more of their franchises in line with their sports franchises with a yearly release cycle, or 1.5 year cycle for those that weren't quite right for a yearly release.

Did some digging and found an article that mentions it except it was released shortly after DA2, don't think it's the same one I read but still covers the issue.
http://www.gamasutra..._To_Offense.php

That means focusing on three aggressive core strategies moving forward.

The first, he said, is pushing EA's stable of popular IP, including FIFA, Madden, Battlefield, Need for Speed, The Sims, Tetris, Dragon Age and other titles. The company will also leverage the popularity of labels such as EA Sports and its casual Pogo brand.

"We fully intend to make these properties into year-round businesses that lead their sectors across a range of platforms," Riccitiello said.

I had a programming professor in College who worked on the Superman Returns game and he told me the reason the game sucked so badly was because of corporate bureaucracy. The company had just purchased the license to a new engine and they wanted all their upcoming games to use it. So the development team was told to move everything over to the new engine. They spent six months transferring all their work into the new engine and had little time for anything else.

The professor tells this story so we know that sometimes upper management pulls this kind of BS with no real consideration on how it will effect the dev team or the lost time impact. And that this kind of thing is not restricted to the game industry but happens in all sorts of software companies. It's like demanding a complete redesign of say a car that is already in the prototype phase.

The problem often with the larger companies is they have high up executives passing down company wide mandates that might not apply well to all areas of that company, and in some case be detrimental to those areas. I've seen so many smaller developers like BW get bought up by larger companies and then take a turn for the worst, usually at about the same time key members of that development house leave sighting creative differences. Much like what has happen with several people at BW.

People keep forgetting BW is not like some favorite artist, director, writer, or etc that you can follow and pick up their latest works. They are a company made of lots of different people. It's the people in charge who steer the companies vision. If they leave new people take over and drive the company in another direction.

The best comparison is comics. They may have the same characters but fans prefer one writer's style over another and they have their favorite series. Even the comic movies have been done and redone. This even goes to "artistic integrity" defense people try to claim. How many times have various comic characters been "reimagined" to fit with "modern" times. Because it's not long before "modern" becomes outdated. Movies, Books, Plays, and etc are redone all the time as a new group does their "interpretation" of the work. And yet the idea of ME3 "Fan Cut" seems outrageous to some people even though several cases of movies with "Director's Cut" have different endings.

[Spyre2001]

Double Post

Modifié par Spyre2001, 25 mars 2012 - 03:53 .

[Moirai]

Wow, Sky. Your topic has taken off since I last checked in. Good work.

[Seival]

Good job, OP!

[Spyre2001]

How ME3 Should of ended.



See if you can catch the references in Miranda and Vega's endings.

EDIT: This one is mostly the same but includes Ashley instead, also has Javik

www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par Spyre2001, 25 mars 2012 - 07:01 .

[LdyBelial]

Spyre2001 wrote...

--snip--

The best comparison is comics. They may have the same characters but fans prefer one writer's style over another and they have their favorite series. Even the comic movies have been done and redone. This even goes to "artistic integrity" defense people try to claim. How many times have various comic characters been "reimagined" to fit with "modern" times. Because it's not long before "modern" becomes outdated. Movies, Books, Plays, and etc are redone all the time as a new group does their "interpretation" of the work. And yet the idea of ME3 "Fan Cut" seems outrageous to some people even though several cases of movies with "Director's Cut" have different endings.

I really liked your Post Spyre2001!  I particularly appreciate your last line!  

I feel that the current behavior of the industry is somewhat appalling!  They keep trying to focus on the artistic integrity and how the story is BioWare's while overlooking the impact it is having upon those who use the product to begin with.

If ME3 were a movie and not a game, I would be like "Epic fail, won't bother to watch that crap again."  If there was another movie I wouldn't waste a dime on it.  If ME3 were a book I would throw it away and use my imagination to finish off the story to my satisfaction.  ME3 is a video game.  I purchased it with the intent to be able to play it over and over again -- WITH ENJOYMENT.  Throughout the buildup to the game promises were made by BioWare.  (I don't feel a need to repeat the links here -- they have been repeated plenty...)  What we were told we were going to get isn't what we were given.

Really?  How hard is it to understand?  We are not setting precedence with our request although perhaps we have made the most amount of noise?  Still... when there are tens of thousands of fans feeling the same outrage?  Isn't that enough to indicate something went terribly wrong somewhere???

Sorry to have gone off on a rant there...  Just tired of reading how we are behaving poorly for wanting what we do.  Like it is a crime or something...

Lan

[Spyre2001]

MissFish wrote...

I really enjoyed that article. One of the developers mentioned that Bioware might have bitten off more then they can chew with their promises, and another mentioned it might be a publicity stunt.

Really interesting to see how other designers see the problem, especially being a game designer myself.

I am tired of people trying to defend Bioware with the "They simply bit off more than they could chew" or "It wasn't possible for anyone to met fan expectations" as a simple cope out. Claiming that someone failed because the task was impossible only shows the incompetence of the writer for making such a claim, or the incompetence of the person who failed for having attempted it in the first place.

Dragon Age Origins has the same kind of player agency with the player effecting whole races with their actions. It even has the potential for a bittersweet ending where the player sacrifices themselves to save the world. DA:O was basically ME3 in a fantasy settings with less character back story. They succeed massively there with a proper Epilogue giving closure. So there was no reason for the fans to doubt they could do it again. And it obviously wasn't "impossible" since BW had done it before.

If Publicity stunt then it has to be one of the worst, get all your fans to rave about how bad the game ending is will surely increase sales. Though given some of the other face palmingly bad PR stunts EA and other company's have done in recent years this is actually plausible.

[sveners]

bump

[CDRSkyShepard]

Hey guys, a friend pointed me to this blog post: http://jmstevenson.w...-mass-effect-3/

It outlines the hero's journey, how ME1 and ME2 fit into the hero's journey, and how ME3 kind of falls flat on its face. It also talks about how important the ending to a story is, and why messing up the ending makes everything before it trivial. I love it, it's a great read...and yes, I'm putting it in the OP under "Blogs."

Edit: I found the LotR funny! Have a laugh:

Modifié par CDRSkyShepard, 25 mars 2012 - 09:01 .

[GuardianAngel470]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

I've been compiling some notes as to what to work into the OP, content-wise. Hopefully I'll be done doing edits by tomorrow evening! I hope everyone is enjoying their weekend!

Hey, I remember earlier in the thread you were wondering how to organize the articles. I thought you could do it in chronological order. That way it would give a sense of how certain media reacted initially and then how perceptions changed over time.

You could also organize it in the obvious way, ie Pro-Cause, Balanced, and Anti-Cause.

[CDRSkyShepard]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

I've been compiling some notes as to what to work into the OP, content-wise. Hopefully I'll be done doing edits by tomorrow evening! I hope everyone is enjoying their weekend!

Kind of, lots of papers to do and working on my novel. 

Still depressed as hell though.

*Hugs*

[Apathy1989]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

Edit: I found the LotR funny! Have a laugh:

I lol'ed.

[Reptilian Rob]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

I've been compiling some notes as to what to work into the OP, content-wise. Hopefully I'll be done doing edits by tomorrow evening! I hope everyone is enjoying their weekend!

Kind of, lots of papers to do and working on my novel. 

Still depressed as hell though.

*Hugs*

I needed that.