1634 réponses à ce sujet

[Hobbyman]

You might wish to include this video in your list. It is very good and addresses the major and basic problems in the ending.

[VvAndromedavV]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

By now, everyone on this forum has a position regarding the endings to
Mass Effect 3, and thus the entire trilogy we have all come to know and
love.

*snip*

Wow, OP, that's a pretty impressive post. :-)

[lordofdogtown19]

Bump. This has to stay up. Hopefully Bioware is reading this

[MarcusFrost88]

bump

[Ibn_Shisha]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

I've been researching for both new articles and aircraft performance data today! I will edit the OP tomorrow evening. It's gonna be good. I have several new sections for the "Grievances" header, including one that I just realized a few days ago...

THERE IS NO CLIMAX IN ME3.

I was shocked to realize it, but it's true. Pretty much after Thessia, the plot stagnates and there is no proper climax. I think this is a real issue.

Ibn_Shisha, I'm so stealing that Normandy banner. Because she DOES deserve a better ending. Poor girl...

Not mine, but freely available at http://social.biowar...ndex/10712627/1

[Sanrei]

Bump!

[Madecologist]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

I've been researching for both new articles and aircraft performance data today! I will edit the OP tomorrow evening. It's gonna be good. I have several new sections for the "Grievances" header, including one that I just realized a few days ago...

THERE IS NO CLIMAX IN ME3.

I was shocked to realize it, but it's true. Pretty much after Thessia, the plot stagnates and there is no proper climax. I think this is a real issue.

That is more true than you think. The little app that reveals some of the behind the scenes things showed a storyboard flowchart with a line indicating tension. It merely goes up with no peak and down turn. So in practice they never intended to have a denoument and resolution as per lit 101 rules. But when you think about it, it also means it has no climax.

A climax needs that peak and drop off, the release from the rising tension is a critical part of the climax and without it the tension merely builds up and goes no where. I can't help feeling like I am talking about sex, but then even my lit professor compared a good climax to a story is a lot like having good sex.

What is worst, I don't even think they pull off the rising tension properly. Overall the London mission is not.. as cool as one would think. Oh sure it has some nice cutscenes but doesn't have any of the drama you got from the final run in ME1 or the Suicide Mission in ME2.

I think one of the reasons is they were trying to be grim dark, like they were trying to outdue W40K or something. But instead they fall flat with it and ME never had that level 'grim dark' to begin with. It is obvious the story had a dark overtone (the eradication of all advanced life in the Galaxy and Earth getting munched on by giant metalic scuttlefish) but they tried to hard to force the bleakness, generally you don't try to force a mood but let your scene build up naturally.

Modifié par Madecologist, 01 avril 2012 - 08:38 .

[Moirai]

Apathy1989 wrote...

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

Yeah, there is no resolution, but there is also no climax...no real building action after Thessia.

In the hero's journey, there's supposed to be a low point - a feeling of hopelessness in the plot - before the rising action occurs, leading to the climax, the triumph, then to the resolution. We have that low point, Thessia, but after that, the action rises up a bit with Cronos Station, but it plateaus after that. There's no epic big fight, and no build to an epic, big, climatic battle. All there is, is you trying to reach the Citadel while dodging Harby. There's no final push, no big rallying moment, no crescendo. There's kind of a fake climax with all the stuff happening in the ending cutscenes, but you don't have anything building up to that moment. It kind of takes you by surprise and makes you think, "That's it?" I think that's why a lot of us feel like the endings are so empty and meaningless. There really was no rising action and climax to the story. It all kind of plateaued after Thessia. Then we hit yet another low point after the ending. It's just so dissatisfying on so many levels.

I suppose that is true. The cinematic explosion is not enough to provide a climax, we need a boss fight or something. 

I vote harbinger boss fight. 

To be honest, that was exactly what I was expecting at the end. A fight with Harbie. The fact that nothing major ever came of the Shepard/Harbinger exchanges by the end of ME3 baffled me at the time. It just added another disappointing 'What was the point?' issue for me.

So, yeah. We should get a proper showdown with him/it...

[Ibn_Shisha]

Even if they had kept the original TIM boss fight, that would have improved things. Instead they rehashed the "convince the indoctrinated to blow his brains out" from 1. Without even getting to kill him again.

[Ibn_Shisha]

You know, I've heard this mess compared to the Lucas prequels/special editions fiasco (and I admit, I've used the analogy myself a time or two). In actuality, though, this feels even worse. As far as I know, Lucas never came out just before the release of tPM and explicitly stated "I would never Disnify the franchise to the point of nausea, nor would I ever completely destroy the mystical vibe of the Force established in the original trilogy."

Really, the only thing that could upset me more this year (as far as entertainment/media goes, at least), would be if Brandon somehow completely murdered aMoL. I'm not too worried about that, though, I've met the guy. He wouldn't do that to us.

[MikeC99]

Not sure if this link is here, so here it is*:

http://adage.com/art...-ending/233848/

cheers
MikeC

* - sudden time dilation/ concatenation/ sequencing thingy ... as I just put it here, then I DO know it's here, and if it's here .... head hurtz. Indoktroonaysharrrrrrrrrrrrrr......

[Reptilian Rob]

Go to Amazon.uk for lulz.

[bahamutomega]

just as a side note to the OP: can you include an edit about the fact that not everyone (in fact, i think only a minority has asked for) wants or needs a "happy" ending. there's been enough press coverage about how everyone now a part of Retake Mass Effect wants a happy ending where shepard lives, and the simple fact is that not everyone does. i would also add (in this same heading) that there should at least be the possibility of a "happy" ending that we should have to work our butts off for to get as many war assets as possible. it shouldn't be "easy" to survive this final battle. just a thought.

[ZLurps]

bahamutomega wrote...

just as a side note to the OP: can you include an edit about the fact that not everyone (in fact, i think only a minority has asked for) wants or needs a "happy" ending. there's been enough press coverage about how everyone now a part of Retake Mass Effect wants a happy ending where shepard lives, and the simple fact is that not everyone does. i would also add (in this same heading) that there should at least be the possibility of a "happy" ending that we should have to work our butts off for to get as many war assets as possible. it shouldn't be "easy" to survive this final battle. just a thought.

Seconded. I'm not part of the movement but what I read from boards in the beginning of this controversy, it was most about people not necessarily wanting happy ending, but ending that makes sense.

[Apathy1989]

ZLurps wrote...

bahamutomega wrote...

just as a side note to the OP: can you include an edit about the fact that not everyone (in fact, i think only a minority has asked for) wants or needs a "happy" ending. there's been enough press coverage about how everyone now a part of Retake Mass Effect wants a happy ending where shepard lives, and the simple fact is that not everyone does. i would also add (in this same heading) that there should at least be the possibility of a "happy" ending that we should have to work our butts off for to get as many war assets as possible. it shouldn't be "easy" to survive this final battle. just a thought.

Seconded. I'm not part of the movement but what I read from boards in the beginning of this controversy, it was most about people not necessarily wanting happy ending, but ending that makes sense.

Well I would alternatively say:

We don't want a happy ending, but we want the choice of one. There should be many endings, some happy, some sad, some inbetween. Not all paths must be the same.


Something like DAO would be my ideal, its what I expected - happiness but some sacrifice. Can be player, can be a squadmate, can be some dark secret.

[linsanity]

I am in AWE of your dedication OP, Hold the Line

[Akaki]

For the Bumpz. Nice that someone put all those things in one place.

[Ibn_Shisha]

Last post 3 hours ago. We need to keep this at the top.

[SpeedDevil89]

bahamutomega wrote...

just as a side note to the OP: can you include an edit about the fact that not everyone (in fact, i think only a minority has asked for) wants or needs a "happy" ending. there's been enough press coverage about how everyone now a part of Retake Mass Effect wants a happy ending where shepard lives, and the simple fact is that not everyone does. i would also add (in this same heading) that there should at least be the possibility of a "happy" ending that we should have to work our butts off for to get as many war assets as possible. it shouldn't be "easy" to survive this final battle. just a thought.

I agree with you. To be honest, I don't mind even if there wasn't a happy ending as you say (ie, one that Shepard and all his/her squad, friends, etc live). I was fully prepared for this as the story went on, and it is quite an appropriate way to end it.

PS: Going through the mission on Rannoch again, during the cutscene where you talk with the dying reaper, I realised the motivation for the reapers to harvest organic civilizations probably won't change, no matter how big our reaction is. In a way, the motive is logical, in its own twisted way. Although I think that any AI given this command should shut down or burn itself trying to process a paradox (harvest organics in order to save them from being killed by synthetics)

[Apathy1989]

SpeedDevil89 wrote...

I agree with you. To be honest, I don't mind even if there wasn't a happy ending as you say (ie, one that Shepard and all his/her squad, friends, etc live). I was fully prepared for this as the story went on, and it is quite an appropriate way to end it.

PS: Going through the mission on Rannoch again, during the cutscene where you talk with the dying reaper, I realised the motivation for the reapers to harvest organic civilizations probably won't change, no matter how big our reaction is. In a way, the motive is logical, in its own twisted way. Although I think that any AI given this command should shut down or burn itself trying to process a paradox (harvest organics in order to save them from being killed by synthetics)

Until starchild appeared, I was under the impression we were being harvested to ascend to a higher plane of existence - eg a reaper. The cycle was just reapers way of reproducing, which they considered their duty.

At least that made sense in a twisted way. Starchilds just gives out circular logic with his explaination.

[Sanrei]

Apathy1989 wrote...


Well I would alternatively say:

We don't want a happy ending, but we want the choice of one. There should be many endings, some happy, some sad, some inbetween. Not all paths must be the same.


Something like DAO would be my ideal, its what I expected - happiness but some sacrifice. Can be player, can be a squadmate, can be some dark secret.

Pretty much what I was hoping for and eventually expected when hearing all the wonderful things about the ending from developers pre-release.

I loved DAO and the endings were spectacular.

[pomrink]

OP i kinda feel bad for you, people must be constantly blasting you with links and whatnot

[SpeedDevil89]

I think DAO set precedence with regards to how actions affect the world. I don't think it's too much for us to expect something similar for a game that it's all about choices. I loved DAO (and kept playing again and again and again) because I could see the consequences

[Bronxboy]

Wow, what a post! Great stuff.

[Kaija]

Excellent job, very thorough post!