There was a "chat?" o_o; That has me worried. x(
I was gone for the weekend. Bump?
The Data Cache: Your One-Stop Retake Resource (UPDATED 6/16!)
Débuté par
CDRSkyShepard
, mars 13 2012 04:43
Retour en haut
#1552
Posté 21 mai 2012 - 09:14
CDRSkyShepard
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Yeah, he had a chat with Chris over a temp ban. (He and I earned matching ones. XD) Don't ask, it'd be like pouring seawater into a wound.
In more positive and awesome news, the first part of the 3rd HTL podcast is out! This discussion was very long, so it's being split into two parts.
HTL Podcast Episode 3, Part 1: Mass Effect 3
Someone needs to tell me to shut up. LOL.
In more positive and awesome news, the first part of the 3rd HTL podcast is out! This discussion was very long, so it's being split into two parts.
HTL Podcast Episode 3, Part 1: Mass Effect 3
Someone needs to tell me to shut up. LOL.
#1553
Posté 21 mai 2012 - 06:55
Sanrei
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Oh! I'm not one to pry, I thought it had something to do with the EC or ending related.
I'll have to listen to that after I get off work tonight. :3
I'll have to listen to that after I get off work tonight. :3
#1554
Posté 22 mai 2012 - 07:10
Madecologist
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Pah, talk as much as you want. I tend to listen to podcasts when I play 4X space games, doing some writing, or setting probability comparisons in Excel. So it is okay if they get long.
#1555
Posté 24 mai 2012 - 05:33
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Yeek. This needs to be bumped pretty badly. I'm slacking off! D':
#1556
Posté 24 mai 2012 - 05:39
unoriginalname1133
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It happens to the best of us. Besides, the rest of us need to start pulling our weight on bumpingPedEgg wrote...
Yeek. This needs to be bumped pretty badly. I'm slacking off! D':
Modifié par unoriginalname1133, 24 mai 2012 - 05:39 .
#1557
Posté 24 mai 2012 - 08:57
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<3unoriginalname1133 wrote...
It happens to the best of us. Besides, the rest of us need to start pulling our weight on bumpingPedEgg wrote...
Yeek. This needs to be bumped pretty badly. I'm slacking off! D':
#1560
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 08:46
christrek1982
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grate post all the info in one place thanks to yo sir/madam
#1561
Posté 25 mai 2012 - 10:35
CDRSkyShepard
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Thank you! I try my best to keep it updated.christrek1982 wrote...
grate post all the info in one place thanks to yo sir/madam
Busy week for me as well, and even busier weekend with PHOENIX COMIC CON! Yay!!!
#1563
Posté 26 mai 2012 - 10:03
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Oh my. Are we close to one another? I live in Glendale, hahah! xD
Due to money issues, I've decided not to attend this year, even though Patrick Stewart is showing up. ;_;
Due to money issues, I've decided not to attend this year, even though Patrick Stewart is showing up. ;_;
#1564
Posté 26 mai 2012 - 10:28
Mad-Hamlet
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Holy crap, I had no idea Penny Arcade had double-dealt.
The urge to brow-beat them is strong, rage levels rising and all that. But they're good at stuff too...ah, the Jack Thompson Days...so.
Yeah.
Meh, hell with equality.
**** you, Penny Arcade.
The urge to brow-beat them is strong, rage levels rising and all that. But they're good at stuff too...ah, the Jack Thompson Days...so.
Yeah.
Meh, hell with equality.
**** you, Penny Arcade.
#1565
Posté 26 mai 2012 - 10:39
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There were a few people I respected that completely blew me away on this one, PA included.
And mainly because they completely misunderstood the reasons behind the outrage.
I love Gabe and Tycho but considering how closely they've worked with Bioware... there's a big possibility of a conflict of interest in this matter.
And mainly because they completely misunderstood the reasons behind the outrage.
I love Gabe and Tycho but considering how closely they've worked with Bioware... there's a big possibility of a conflict of interest in this matter.
#1566
Posté 26 mai 2012 - 03:31
unoriginalname1133
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Yeah, I had seen that Gabe even trotted out the "whole game is the ending" defense. I get really bothered when I see this one. For one, it's a pretty flimsy use of semantics; if you want to call the whole game an "ending," there still needs to be a defense of some sort for the "climax" or whatever you want to call the last 15 minutes. The "end of the end" still has all the same problems, no matter what you want to call it.
More importantly, calling the whole game an ending implies that we were given closure throughout; we were not. Sure, there were plenty of great moments, and some issues were resolved, but if anything, ME3 set up even more long term questions than when we had when we started. Take curing the genophage, for example. The only thing that got resolved was whether or not you cured the genophage and what backup you would receive. There are still a lot of big picture issues that are never fleshed out. If you cured it, was that Dalatrass right? Would the krogan run roughshod throughout the galaxy? If you saved Wrex and Eve, would they be able to steer the krogan towards peace like they said? If you double-crossed the krogan, would they be able to survive? And these are just a few of the questions from just one of the large scale decisions you made. It doesn't even touch upon the lack of personal closure from the ending (what happened to the squad, Shepard's LI, etc).
Ultimately, then, calling the whole game an ending is meaningless; the last 15 minutes still invalidate what came before, and we were not given any closure that mattered.
/Rant
More importantly, calling the whole game an ending implies that we were given closure throughout; we were not. Sure, there were plenty of great moments, and some issues were resolved, but if anything, ME3 set up even more long term questions than when we had when we started. Take curing the genophage, for example. The only thing that got resolved was whether or not you cured the genophage and what backup you would receive. There are still a lot of big picture issues that are never fleshed out. If you cured it, was that Dalatrass right? Would the krogan run roughshod throughout the galaxy? If you saved Wrex and Eve, would they be able to steer the krogan towards peace like they said? If you double-crossed the krogan, would they be able to survive? And these are just a few of the questions from just one of the large scale decisions you made. It doesn't even touch upon the lack of personal closure from the ending (what happened to the squad, Shepard's LI, etc).
Ultimately, then, calling the whole game an ending is meaningless; the last 15 minutes still invalidate what came before, and we were not given any closure that mattered.
/Rant
Modifié par unoriginalname1133, 26 mai 2012 - 04:05 .
#1569
Posté 28 mai 2012 - 08:56
CDRSkyShepard
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I'm living in Prescott but came down and stayed with my friends in Chandler for the weekend.PedEgg wrote...
Oh my. Are we close to one another? I live in Glendale, hahah! xD
Due to money issues, I've decided not to attend this year, even though Patrick Stewart is showing up. ;_;
Patrick Stewart wasn't there, though, due to other committments, unfortunately. I don't remember when they announced he wasn't going to show. William Shatner was still there. (I saw him, didn't get an auto or anything, too expensive. Lol.) I got autographs from Brent Spiner and Marina Sirtis (for y'all ME nerds, that's Benezia ;D), and my picture with Jamie Bamber and Michael Dorn.
Re: Penny Arcade. So these guys kind of poked fun of those of us trying to get Deception denounced from the canon when it came out. However, they did it good-naturedly and did admit there were problems with the book, that we had a legitimate beef. But...I definitely get the sense they're too involved with BioWare to be completely objective. I got that vibe with Deception, and I'm definitely getting it now. Plus, it was easier to denounce Deception because BioWare didn't write it, and no one from BioWare wrote it. The book DID call into question their quality control, however, and I have to wonder if that's why they were a bit hesitant on taking us seriously at first.
#1570
Posté 28 mai 2012 - 07:35
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I'm glad I didn't get tickets in advance then. I'd have been really disappointed.
My biggest surprise was with Tycho supporting it. Being more of a writer, I figured he'd be a bit more sensitive to the basic literary flaws of the ending.
I'm also wondering, on an unrelated note, if Bioware could fix the journal system too with the new EC. On a technical level, that was a punch to the face. I completely messed up on two different quests/missions and was unable to finish them because of how terrible the journals were this go around.
Of course, I'd rather them devote time to making a proper ending... but I can't exactly hold my breath on that one unless they go with IT or something equally mind-blowing that will give us better choices without damaging theirartistic integrityegos.
My biggest surprise was with Tycho supporting it. Being more of a writer, I figured he'd be a bit more sensitive to the basic literary flaws of the ending.
I'm also wondering, on an unrelated note, if Bioware could fix the journal system too with the new EC. On a technical level, that was a punch to the face. I completely messed up on two different quests/missions and was unable to finish them because of how terrible the journals were this go around.
Of course, I'd rather them devote time to making a proper ending... but I can't exactly hold my breath on that one unless they go with IT or something equally mind-blowing that will give us better choices without damaging their
Modifié par PedEgg, 28 mai 2012 - 07:38 .
#1571
Posté 29 mai 2012 - 02:56
unoriginalname1133
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Bump! And I had an idea. Do you think it would be a good idea to include a section where we address common arguements made against retakers? After all, part of any good debate is anticipating and countering your opponents arguments. I understand, though, that you are obviously pretty busy. I (and hopefully others) would be glad to do a lot of the leg work. Let me know if you like the idea
Modifié par unoriginalname1133, 29 mai 2012 - 03:00 .
#1572
Posté 29 mai 2012 - 06:16
CDRSkyShepard
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They refunded everyone who bought photo ops in advance for him, at least. A fair majority of the TNG cast were still there, though. It was quite the thing. I got to actually talk to Brent Spiner and Marina Sirtis for a bit. It was awesome.PedEgg wrote...
I'm glad I didn't get tickets in advance then. I'd have been really disappointed.
My biggest surprise was with Tycho supporting it. Being more of a writer, I figured he'd be a bit more sensitive to the basic literary flaws of the ending.
I'm also wondering, on an unrelated note, if Bioware could fix the journal system too with the new EC. On a technical level, that was a punch to the face. I completely messed up on two different quests/missions and was unable to finish them because of how terrible the journals were this go around.
Of course, I'd rather them devote time to making a proper ending... but I can't exactly hold my breath on that one unless they go with IT or something equally mind-blowing that will give us better choices without damaging theirartistic integrityegos.
I really think it comes down to that Penny Arcade was "in bed" with BioWare. I have to wonder what kind of things he has to say in his head to keep convincing himself that the ending is worth defending, though.
Oh man, if they fix the Journal I would be SO HAPPY. That thing is absolute crap. It never updated, and was more like a to-do list than a proper journal. I had to use the freaking game guide to complete those missions. I didn't even really understand how you were supposed to do them until I read the game guide. Talk about non-intuitive.
LOL. Me too, me too...
I can definitely work on that this week! If I can get some of you to gather information for me, I can organize it and add a section. That would be a great addition to the OP! I have some new stuff to add to it anyway.unoriginalname1133 wrote...
Bump! And I had an idea. Do you think it would be a good idea to include a section where we address common arguements made against retakers? After all, part of any good debate is anticipating and countering your opponents arguments. I understand, though, that you are obviously pretty busy. I (and hopefully others) would be glad to do a lot of the leg work. Let me know if you like the idea
In other news, Part 2 of the HTL Podcast Episode 3 is up! Enjoy that one. ;D
#1574
Posté 29 mai 2012 - 04:20
unoriginalname1133
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@Sky. Will do! I made a post a couple of days ago trying to argue against the "whole game as an ending" stance. If anyone here sees any way to improve it, please do.
Another one I see a lot is the notion that the fans/consumers have no right to demand a new ending, as Mass Effect is ultimately Bioware's story. I can't really refute this; Bioware did come up with the IP and has done wonderful things with it. To paraphrase MrBtongue over on Youtube, Bioware at the very least "owns" the story in the most practical sense in that only they can change the ending in a way that people would accept.
That being said, I think that the core idea of Mass Effect has ALWAYS supported, and in fact required, the player to take ownership of the events of the story. As opposed to movies or novels, video games require the audience to be active rather than passive participants. This is ESPECIALLY true of Mass Effect. Even if we were moving down the paths Bioware set out for us, we were still left in charge of determining how the story progressed. Staff members at Bioware have even gone as far as to say that the players were the "co-authors" of the story (citation needed). This has always been one of the things that made Mass Effect an amazing, innovative experience. When we get to the ending of Mass Effect 3, however, when all of our decisions and their consequences should have mattered most, the player agency which has been a core mechanic of the series is suddenly and jarringly ripped away. I don't think it is difficult to understand why players are upset over this, especially in light of developer promises that our choices would make a difference (including the now infamous promise of "16 wildly different endings" [citation needed]).
While I don't think anyone can deny that fans have a right to complain about this, I recognize that Bioware is under no legal responsibility to respond. I don't think we should understate, though, that the current endings run against the ideas of player control and meaningful consequences that Bioware themselves have been encouraging for years now. When they fail to live up to the promises of the series, they are not only disappointing the fans, but they are truly cheating themselves; Mass Effect had the potential to go down as one of the most groundbreaking and influential games of all time, and the new benchmark of the unique narrative strengths of the video game industry. As things stand now, though, Mass Effect may be remembered as an example of squandered opportunity because of the ending, and NO ONE, not the fans and not Bioware, wants that.
Anyone see a way to improve this? Please do!
Another one I see a lot is the notion that the fans/consumers have no right to demand a new ending, as Mass Effect is ultimately Bioware's story. I can't really refute this; Bioware did come up with the IP and has done wonderful things with it. To paraphrase MrBtongue over on Youtube, Bioware at the very least "owns" the story in the most practical sense in that only they can change the ending in a way that people would accept.
That being said, I think that the core idea of Mass Effect has ALWAYS supported, and in fact required, the player to take ownership of the events of the story. As opposed to movies or novels, video games require the audience to be active rather than passive participants. This is ESPECIALLY true of Mass Effect. Even if we were moving down the paths Bioware set out for us, we were still left in charge of determining how the story progressed. Staff members at Bioware have even gone as far as to say that the players were the "co-authors" of the story (citation needed). This has always been one of the things that made Mass Effect an amazing, innovative experience. When we get to the ending of Mass Effect 3, however, when all of our decisions and their consequences should have mattered most, the player agency which has been a core mechanic of the series is suddenly and jarringly ripped away. I don't think it is difficult to understand why players are upset over this, especially in light of developer promises that our choices would make a difference (including the now infamous promise of "16 wildly different endings" [citation needed]).
While I don't think anyone can deny that fans have a right to complain about this, I recognize that Bioware is under no legal responsibility to respond. I don't think we should understate, though, that the current endings run against the ideas of player control and meaningful consequences that Bioware themselves have been encouraging for years now. When they fail to live up to the promises of the series, they are not only disappointing the fans, but they are truly cheating themselves; Mass Effect had the potential to go down as one of the most groundbreaking and influential games of all time, and the new benchmark of the unique narrative strengths of the video game industry. As things stand now, though, Mass Effect may be remembered as an example of squandered opportunity because of the ending, and NO ONE, not the fans and not Bioware, wants that.
Anyone see a way to improve this? Please do!
Modifié par unoriginalname1133, 29 mai 2012 - 04:26 .
