1634 réponses à ce sujet

[DrowNoble]

Would also be nice if Bioware commented on this, I'm sure they are aware of the outcry by now.

[CDRSkyShepard]

glacier1701 wrote...

You might want to add this Forbes Article to the list. Shoots down most game journalists who are dismissing our concerns as being from 'whiners'. Really is nice to see that a business magazine which is read by investors is defending gamer rights whereas so called game journalists are being dismissive of us and being very 'childish' about it.

I've got that one, but thanks! It's a great article. The fact that it's by Forbes is even more fantastic.

I doubt we'll hear any real comment from BioWare for a while. Whispers are starting to trickle through, though. Keep ears and eyes sharp!

[IsleySilverlord]

bump

[RebelByDesign]

If they are indeed hinting at something and not just sticking their fingers in their ears and ignoring the backlash, then they need to say something concrete soon or risk riling people up even more.

[TemplarLord]

Hold the line!

[Moirai]

RubiconI7 wrote...

Moirai wrote...

On the issue of the 'indoctrination' theory, I have to say that when I played the final charge to the beam scene with Harbinger firing at you, it felt very wrong.

Shepard's hit by a beam and then...all her armour has vanished, along with her weapons, and she's just wearing her casual outfit.

How does a laser manage to effectively atomise Shepard's armour and not atomise Shepard? And how could she be wearing her casual clothes under her armour...?

Leaving her with some smoking armour would have made some sense. But to remove it completely was just jarring.

It was at that point I just sat there, staring at the screen, feeling completely confused and wondering what the heck had just happened. Everything felt different and nothing seemed to make much sense from that point on. It almost felt like it was just tacked on from a different version of the game. It all just felt...wrong.

EDIT: On a side note, after mentioning Fallout 3 in my previous post; it's interesting to note that fans of that particular game also strongly disliked the ending, and Bethesda did actually listen and 'fix' it with the Broken Steel DLC.

That's major kudos to Bethesda for listening to their fans. I can only hope Bioware can also see the sense in keeping their fans happy too.

Your Shepherd was wearing Casual clothes? Mine was wearing a burnt out version of the N7 armor..Wierd.
And yes, I agree the blast from Harbinger felt very wrong in the end...with a never-overheating-pistol and everything.

Yes, she was, which was utterly bizarre for me. Damaged casual clothes, bloodied with an arm half missing, but her casual clothes none the less.

Well, at least it probably made a bit more sense to you then.

[Doppelgaenger]

What can I do but agree: change it, because we deserve better from you.

[CDRSkyShepard]

RebelByDesign wrote...

If they are indeed hinting at something and not just sticking their fingers in their ears and ignoring the backlash, then they need to say something concrete soon or risk riling people up even more.

I don't think they're going to say anything for another two weeks or so. They can't say anything until the game is released in all sectors. The Japanese don't even have it yet. For them to come out and debunk/reaffirm their own endings before others even get to buy it would not only be irregular, but it would further damage them.

For now, we build up strength!

[SilencedScream]

Just don't let this thread die, CDR.

[CDRSkyShepard]

SilencedScream wrote...

Just don't let this thread die, CDR.

Oh, I won't. Trust me.

I'm spamming it wherever I can. People can help me out by doing the same. 

[mvictorine]

I support this. Thank you for the effort. It is nice to know I'm not, and was never, alone.

[Carlthestrange]

I support this motion.

[jabajack]

Thank you for the thread I support this entirely

[xAmilli0n]

Great job, I 100% support this.

[wrdnshprd]

putting in my support. i dont necessarily think there NEEDS to be a different ending.. ive seen plenty of games with a worse one. but i understand the frustration with them.

however, for those that want to sign some type of petition, do so through the child's play campaign. whoever did that deserves a big pat on the back! what a creative and cool thing to do for such a 'first world' issue.

lets face it, there are a lot more important things out there than a terrible ending to a video game. its nice to see someone showing their concern through supporting a great cause.

[SilencedScream]

wrdnshprd wrote...
however, for those that want to sign some type of petition, do so through the child's play campaign. whoever did that deserves a big pat on the back! what a creative and cool thing to do for such a 'first world' issue.

I keep putting in a free bump here and there for that thread.
Unfortunately, I've already spent as much money as I plan to over Mass Effect 3 in general, unless we get a sign of good faith through free DLC endings. I won't be giving that petition my money, but I will help get their cause rolling.

And, honestly, I'm mostly replying to you just to give this thread a free bump. Because I'm a ninja like that.

[Madecologist]

I am going to say it, I do think perhaps the Relay's termination is a necessary evil. They are in fact reminents of the Reapers (they left them there on purpose... remember Soveriegn's speech) and if we are to be free of the cycle, it is time we release ourselves from their planned designs as well. The story even hinted at the construction of our 'own' Relay system. Ilos Protheans built the Conduit, and the Bartender Matriach (forgot her name) spoke about the Asari should probably should start building their own in ME2.

What I didn't like is how it was treated it in ME3. The dilemna never came up, the exploration of the theme and what they represented never came up. They get wham bam cablooy in the ending. Even I, who believed in the Relay's needed to go, am disappointed about it in the actual ending. Heck I wanted to sacrifice my Shepard too... but... not like this.

With everything else I strongly agree.

Hold the Line.

Modifié par Madecologist, 13 mars 2012 - 10:19 .

[CDRSkyShepard]

Madecologist wrote...

I am going to say it, I do think perhaps the Relay's termination is a necessary evil. They are in fact reminents of the Reapers (they left them there on purpose... remember Soveriegn's speech) and if we are to be free of the cycle, it is time we release ourselves from their planned designs as well. The story even hinted at the construction of our 'own' Relay system. Ilos Protheans built the Conduit, and the Bartender Matriach (forgot her name) spoke about the Asari should probably should start building their own in ME2.

What I didn't like is how it was treated it in ME3. The dilemna never came up, the exploration of the theme and what they represented never came up. They get wham bam cablooy in the ending. Even I, who believed in the Relay's needed to go, am disappointed about it in the actual ending. Heck I wanted to sacrifice my Shepard too... but... not like this.

With everything else I strongly agree.

Hold the Line.

I am with you, I also think the destruction of the relays is pretty necessary if the universe is going to be truly free of the Reapers' influence. It also raises a lot of questions about how the galaxy is going to deal with it, and that definitely wasn't dealt with at all. The dilemma never came up before that, either, as you said.

Not everyone is going to agree with every problem on "the list," but the sheer extent of the list just goes to show how vast the reaction is.

[EvelinShepard]

I tip my hat to a very comprehensive first post, Sky.

Personally I felt unbridled rage at the ending on my first pt; the fact that Shepard was suddenly taken out of my hands and made to choose one of three flavours without questioning Godboy and then not get any closure on what happened to my squaddies and the Normandy (and the galaxy as a whole) made me want to snap my disc in half. Not to mention the gaping holes it created.

I liked it up until Godboy appeared. He literally made no sense. If it had ended with my Shep killing TIM, and she and Anderson sitting on the Citadel as the Crucible killed the Reapers, I would have been happy. Even if she died, it would have been the way she wanted to go. The 'You did good child' really sealed it for me; I thought that was the ending and that it was perfect. Instead, suddenly it wasn't working and Shep ascends on The Glowing Platform of Light ™.

Godboy and his choices made no sense.

I rather like the indoctrination theory; it makes taking the Red ending in which Shep is still alive more understandable.

Anyway, throwing in my support for this thread. Here's hoping we get some feedback from BW once ME3 is officially global!

[Avarenda]

On a side note, who is MiracleofSound and why is it amazing that he/she is siding with those of us that disliked the endings?

[yoshibb]

Thanks so much for taking the time to do this SkyShepard. We were really in need of a unified thread like this.

[CDRSkyShepard]

Avarenda wrote...

On a side note, who is MiracleofSound and why is it amazing that he/she is siding with those of us that disliked the endings?

Miracle of Sound is a one-man-band that does songs about all the geeky stuff we love. He is associated with The Escapist and even debuted his song Take it Back for ME3's launch day, and did an interview-type thing with BioWare for it.

You might have heard Commander Shepard, which is one of his works.

[VampireCommando]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

By now, everyone on this forum has a position regarding the endings to Mass Effect 3, and thus the entire trilogy we have all come to know and love. Some are outraged, some are satisfied, but there is a vast population in between who are just disappointed.

Why are we disappointed? I will try my best to answer that in this post as constructively as I can. There are many grievances that I will attempt to organize and present to you, the BioWare community - fan, moderator, and developer alike.

Before I begin, however, I want to make this abundantly clear: neither myself, nor many fans who consider themselves part of the movement to secure a “better ending” for the franchise, are seeking anything more than to inform BioWare of our problems with the endings, and perhaps hope upon hope that something will be done to make sense of them. Whether it be a statement, a piece of DLC, or something else...we want answers. We need answers, and we are appealing respectfully in order to find some closure on the subject.

In fact, much of the writing in Mass Effect 3 was sublime. In the first 7 hours alone, I experienced a full range of emotions: anything from fear, to excitement and happiness, to a sense of loss and despair that made me curl up on my couch and cry. After the mission on the geth dreadnought, I got to have some very satisfying words with Admiral Han’Gerrel. When I defeated Kai Leng, I got to avenge one of my favorite characters of the franchise with a battle cry dedicated to him. For the most part, the fan base agrees here: Mass Effect 3 was a fantastic game. It was a story for the ages, and did justice to the greatest sci-fi universe of our generation. That is...until the last 10 minutes.

Repeat, the game was amazing. It's just the last 10-20 minutes we have problems with. Otherwise, the trilogy is definitely the science fiction story of our generation.

We have already received media attention. In general, we have been construed as being entitled, whiny fans who didn’t get their “warm-fuzzy” ending, or an ending we would have envisioned. This is simply not the case. I feel safe speaking for many people here when I say that the endings were never expected to be perfect...but surely an ending that leaves a bad taste in the mouths of loyal fans, makes them feel sick to the stomach, and leaves more questions than answers isn’t what BioWare wanted to give us.

Without further ado, I will attempt to break up and organize a list of grievances people have aired over the past week or so. I do not claim to be the first to say any of these things: just the first to organize them all in one place.

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LIST OF GRIEVANCES:

Disclaimer: Not everyone who dislikes ME3's endings agrees with all of these points. These are points I have gathered from many fans; most are common themes, but even I don't agree with them all. Don't take this to mean everyone here agrees with everything listed, or that you should.
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The Guardian

What is it, exactly? We get that the kid was a visual representation of the Guardian, but there is so much that isn’t explained. Who or what was the Guardian? What was its origin? Obviously, the answer helps us understand more about the Reapers, but we’re never given that answer. The Guardian’s justification for creating the Reapers to “end the cycle” raises questions in of itself. What’s the Guardian’s story specifically? We’re left to kind of figure that one out for ourselves. An “Investigate” option would have been really handy right there at the end.

Where are the “wildly divergent endings?”

Okay, so there are variations on Earth being destroyed/not destroyed within the three ending choices we can make: Control, Destroy, and Synergy. You can Control the Reapers and send them back to dark space, you can Destroy the Reapers (and consequently the geth/other synthetic life) at the risk of the cycle eventually starting over again, or you can Synergize...you can somehow combine the synthetic and organic, so that a mutual understanding can be reached and true peace can finally be achieved. Shepard can live in two of the Destroy endings if your Effective Military Strength is high enough (the variable being what happens to Anderson). Effectively, though, the same things happen: the Reapers are stopped, the mass relays are destroyed, the allied fleet is stuck at Earth, and the Normandy somehow crashes. The implications for the future might be different in the three endings, but the immediate consequences are all the same.

Prior to the release of ME3, we were told that the story was more free to diverge into different endings. (Yep, it was said in 360 Magazine) What we have is three different flavors of practically the same ending for Shepard and crew. Sure, there are variations, but none that affect your character - your Shepard.

“Gilligan’s Planet”

This is the fate of the Normandy SR-2 and her crew: when the mass relays are destroyed, the Normandy is caught in transit between two relays (more on the “how in the world did that happen?” later) and is thrown out, ultimately crashing on a tropical planet. This is a point that has a lot of people irked, myself included. In my own case, if BioWare was willing to fix just this ONE thing, I’d be perfectly happy with everything else the way it is.

Why is it such a problem? We spent the better part of three epic games building relationships with our crew, the other characters in the story. We were even encouraged to do so: there were great rewards to be won. Some characters we could fall in love with, others we had to gain their loyalty in order to survive a mission that would have otherwise been a suicide mission. In encouraging these interactions, BioWare built up a huge theme of friendship - a sense of true togetherness - that really catapulted the Mass Effect story above and beyond other sci-fi and video game stories. Now, if our Shepards are alive, they will most likely never see their friends again. No one knows where they are, and FTL travel at its fastest will still make a cross-galaxy journey take decades even if the Normandy somehow became operational again or a rescue party was sent out. (Star Trek: Voyager, anyone?)

There are many people who are not happy they won’t have their “happily ever after” with their LI. Whether or not that should happen or if it’s too “happy” of an ending is a different debate for a different day (some of the LIs are on Earth still, so that is a possibility for some options). What I’m most concerned about are the characters I’ve come to care about after hundreds of hours invested into their stories. We’ve already permanently lost several beloved characters, why can’t we be able to share our victory with the ones we have left? They were by our side in the beginning...they should be there at the end. Everything is already bittersweet enough without this.

The Normandy also became a character in of herself. Maybe it’s my own sentimentality, but I find her death one of the hardest to bear. I love that ship.

The Epilogue

So, at the end of it all...it’s a grandfather telling a story to his grandson? What is this? I don’t think anyone has any issue with this other than a straight-up “Huh?”

The Flashbacks

These flashbacks are supposed to include the most important people in Shepard's life. They include Anderson, Joker, and supposedly your LI...only if your LI was Kaidan, Ashley, or Liara. Any other LI, and the flashback defaults to Liara. This has many fans understandably upset, especially if they feel their Shepards didn't have a strong connection to Liara in the first place.

Plot Holes

Plot holes everywhere. Shepard is supposed to live during one of the Destroy endings...but the Citadel is blown to smithereens. How in the world is he/she supposed to survive that? Does he/she get magically teleported back to London? Where did the Guardian come from? (See above “Guardian” topic) What happens to the 2 squadmates you bring with you, and how in the world do they get back onto the Normandy just in time to be flung across the galaxy? Why in the world is the Normandy using a mass relay when the relays get destroyed, leading to its subsequent crash and stranding the crew? Surely Joker wouldn’t take the Normandy away from the battle, especially at its most dire. Is there food for Tali and Garrus on Gilligan's Planet? Questions, questions, and more questions.

Of any issue previously listed, this one sorely needs to be addressed. We were told loose ends would all be tied up. I would assume that means the plot should be airtight, as well. You can’t just leave us scratching our heads trying to figure out what’s going on. BioWare, you tell the stories; it’s up to you to tell them in a way that makes sense. With all these plot holes, the ending just flat-out didn’t make sense.

Shepard's Choice

Shepard is the one force in the galaxy that can finally end the Reaper threat. In the end he/she accepts the Guardian's options as his/her only options. This is a soldier who has defied all odds...now it only comes down to three choices, and Shepard doesn't think there's any other way? This AI is fundamentally flawed just like all other AIs, and Shepard can't tell it that we can make our own destiny, just like he/she told Sovereign and Harbinger?

Lack of closure

We were told the ending of the trilogy would bring closure. It didn’t, not for a lot of people. It left us empty, confused, and in some cases, sick to the stomach. Endings should be inspired, even bittersweet...but not confusing. You can’t have a satisfying ending that brings closure to a series when it raises more questions than it answers. Given the complicated nature of variables in this game trilogy, it would probably be very difficult to give us anything terribly detailed, but we need...something. We need answers of some kind, not the questions we currently have.

Where do we go from here?

I'm not talking prequels. I want to know what this means for the future. What is going to happen to the Mass Effect universe now? The relays are all destroyed and galactic civilization is devastated...any story that happens after this trilogy is going to have to answer for that. The fans want to know how all of this is going to work moving forward.

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MEDIA COVERAGE:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Punk4Real has collected a bunch of articles, which tell us that the media has gotten wind of this issue. They aren’t all that nice in some cases, but any attention at this point is good attention. Eventually, with enough time, effort, and good grace, we can use this attention to help us.

It is imperative that we treat the media, devs, and anyone involved with respect. We won’t get any respect if we don’t give it!

Xbox 360: Official Xbox Magazine

Forbes: How BioWare Could Find Redepmtion Using Mass Effect 3

Forbes: Mass Effect 3 and the Prernicious Myth of Gamer 'Entitlement'

Digital Spy

Destructoid

Attack of the Fanboy

Game Front

Kotaku: So There's a Fan Campagin...

Kotaku: Why Mass Effect 3's Ending Was So Damn Terrible

Know Your Meme

Penny Arcade (A good counterpoint, in my opinion)

PikiGeek

PSX Extreme

CVG

Lazy Gamer

Mana Tank

MSNBC: In-Game

Stuff

VG247

Spong

Ars Technica

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WAR ASSETS:
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I will be gathering relevant tweets from relevant people, as well as awesome quotes on the subject from fans to add to this section as we go along. Please note some of the fan quotes are probably not original ideas, but have been put very eloquently, and that’s why I put them here.

A few Tweets from Miracle of Sound:

https://twitter.com/...572709867954177
https://twitter.com/...831978068586496
https://twitter.com/...229005793345536

Fan Groups:

Facebook, Twitter and BSN.

Child's Play Charity Drive:

Didn't like the ending? Want to make a difference? Donate to Child's Play! Also doubles as a petition. Thank you to UniqueName001 for this one.

http://retakemasseff...ect-childs-play (Site: Make donations here!)
http://social.biowar...index/9845819/1 (BSN discussion thread)

Petitions:

http://www.gopetitio...-dlc-patch.html
http://www.change.or...tes-of-the-game

Blogs:

Talking About Tech (Belongs to user Chrissbarr)

Polls:


http://social.biowar...m/633606/polls/
Comprehensive ME3 Endings Poll

Fan Videos:



Banners!!!!











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A special shout-out to JeffZero, SoHARDCORE, Punk4Real (media coverage), and plnero (Retake Mass Effect). Without them, this would be one skimpy post.

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FINAL THOUGHTS:
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We, the fans of Mass Effect, do not wish to attack, belittle, or otherwise demonize the writers who have no doubt pour their hearts and souls into this epic trilogy. However, we do want to hold BioWare accountable for the fan reaction: they warned us “some” might not like the endings, but it turns out “a lot” are not fans of the endings. I can’t imagine why fans should be willing to accept an ending to an otherwise amazing sci-fi epic that makes no sense and is riddled with plot holes.

***That said, there will be a ZERO TOLERANCE POLICY in this thread for bashing, harassing, etc against other forum members, devs, moderators, or any other violation of the BSN’s Code of Conduct. Anyone not adhering to those rules will be reported immediately.***

Please, be excellent to each other. We need to present a united front if there is any chance of BioWare legitimately addressing our concerns. This is a fight that can win, but it is also one that can turn ugly very, very quickly and get us labeled as “crazy disgruntled fans” very easily. Keep all of that in mind when you post on this thread. Thank you!

HOLD THE LINE!!!!!

P.S. Have something to add? Don't be shy! Shoot me a PM and I'll see what I can do.

Contributors:

Chrissbarr
Gibb_Shepard
GuardianAngel470
Jade8aby88
JeffZero (Inspirational Instigator)
jinkinater
Lesbian Wood Elf
makenzieshepard
Marta Rio II
plnero (Retake Mass Effect Group Leader)
Punk4Real (Media Master)
RubiconI7
SoHARDCORE

[VampireCommando]

^QTF, this here is the absolute truth and voice of the mass effect community. BioWare, you need to read this and understand.