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Please Don't change the Endings ME3 endings are epic (Bioware respond to endings)


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#26
seph22

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Oilking72 wrote...

Prepare to be ripped by the crowd here, but I'm ok with the endings as is. I wouldn't call them epic, but they were decent enough for me. Life goes on.


To me they were very good, i cried when shepard jumped in the green beam, it was an epic moment knowing you are killing yourself to save people, instead of seeing the ending as what they are some people just bash the developer just because it's not happy ending, as what someone said here they want happy ending guy+girl get together etc basically Hollywood movie style lol

#27
Dark_Caduceus

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Can't you get 100% galactic readiness via MP and do all the quests in ME3 and still get all the available endings regardless of the apst choices you made, cause I think the asnwer is a resounding "yes".

#28
Torga_DW

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Its not about happy endings vs sad endings for me. Its about interaction and consequence, which leads to replayability. Thanks to a well timed quicksave, i got to see the endings, one after the other. There was no substantive difference between them. There was no consequence to my interactions thoughout the series. There is no point replaying the game, i've seen all there is to see.

And then there are the major logic fallacies and plot holes that slap you in the face due to the poor writing. I've had more epic experiences sitting on the toilet, and a greater sense of conclusion at the end. Not good enough bioware.

#29
Guest_mayrabgood_*

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If we knew Shepard's story was going to continue into another game like a ME4, then the endings are perfectly fine. But the thing is these games were meant as a trilogy. Closure is needed whether it's a happily every after ending or not. What is so wrong about wanting your Shepard to survive and be happy after saving the galaxy countless times???

Modifié par mayrabgood, 13 mars 2012 - 06:40 .


#30
Balmung31

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What does it matter to you if they add happy endings? We're not asking them to take away the ones that are there at all! All we want is the OPTION.

It wouldn't affect you IN THE SLIGHTEST.

#31
HaesoME3

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This is a new and refreshing thread for these forums, do you have a newsletter I could subscribe to?

#32
Almostfaceman

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By Tartilus here: http://social.biowar...5/index/9836008

1. The endings are extremely sad. This is a much-maligned criticism by individuals who associate depth with the perceived darkness of the endings, and that may or may not be a fair point. Regardless, it stands as obvious that many people were hoping for an ending which proffered some hope beyond that available in even the 'happiest' of endings.

2. The endings contain plotholes. The escape of the Normandy and the teleportation of her crew (including the formerly deceased) are the most obvious, but the lack of sufficient explanation regarding the Catalyst's efforts and origin also makes many of his/its motivations bizarre and unsatisfying.

3. The endings fail to fit in with the broadest themes of the series. Slightly different from 1, this criticism notes that the story of Commander Shepherd has always been a story of achieving the impossible with the help of a close crew and rigorous preparation. The endings as offered do not incorporate the crew, do not change significantly in response to your preparation, and while perhaps technically constitute doing the impossible, fail to meet even that low bar which is a solution that does not have an inevitable cross-racial holocaust and galactic dark age as its result.

4. The endings lack variety. This criticism can be directed at both the artistic and story aspects of the ending – the results of the ending decision not only vary little (at least, and this is important, on a scale which is important to our experiences in the game), but the resulting cinematics have only minor differences, and the various sub-endings result in changes so small as to be entirely unnoticeable. Consider that some way could've been contrived to make the Synthetic option differ from the Control option in a fashion greater than a change in the color of the 'light' and a different Texture for Joker in the games final seconds.

5. The mechanics of the ending are not appropriate. Without repeating the various criticisms as regards the ending closely mirroring Deus Ex's, the culmination of the story with a game-show-esque approach to saving the world very much fails to be satisfactory, especially when Mass Effect has otherwise been about the integration of choice into the experience

6. The endings lack dependency on the player's choices prior to the last five minutes. This is important, because the entire rest of Mass Effect 3 was about reacting to previous decisions; consider that, provided one is able to fill the 'war asset' bar in a satisfactory manner via some other means, the decisions in the third game serve no purpose to explain, shape, or enhance the endings. This seems contrary to the spirit of the other 95% of the experience.

7. The endings do not make sense given the character of Shepherd. As has been state elsewhere, we are playing some heroic badass who has otherwise talked down to, shrugged off, and inevitably defeated everyone who threatened, cajoled, or otherwise tried to force him to do something he didn't wish to do. In the ending to ME3, this character offers no rigorous questioning, no protests, no counter-arguments, no discussion of any kind save a resigned sort of death-march which could not be more contrary to his character. This is distressing.

8. The endings have implications, perhaps unintended, which seem to ruin the ME Universe. Admittedly, many of these implications could be avoided, but the lack of contrary evidence fosters a suspicion that these matters were either otherwise not considered, or supposed to be generally acceptable. Indeed, they might even be, but only with proper elaboration, of which there is none.

9. The endings fail to provide closure. There is, as a diagram that is floating around illustrates, no falling action. No conclusion. I do not know what happened to my squadmates – I do not, for reasons that may be bug related, even know which of them is alive. I do not know what happens to the universe, or to the people I've saved. I do not know how I'm remembered, or if any of the terrible things mentioned above actually happens. There almost could not possibly have been less information provided regarding the ending of the game, and that is incredibly distressing when the intention was to wrap up a series that had otherwise displayed all the signs of excellency and had a fond place in our hearts.

Modifié par Almostfaceman, 13 mars 2012 - 06:41 .


#33
The Angry One

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seph22 wrote...

Oilking72 wrote...

Prepare to be ripped by the crowd here, but I'm ok with the endings as is. I wouldn't call them epic, but they were decent enough for me. Life goes on.


To me they were very good, i cried when shepard jumped in the green beam, it was an epic moment knowing you are killing yourself to save people, instead of seeing the ending as what they are some people just bash the developer just because it's not happy ending, as what someone said here they want happy ending guy+girl get together etc basically Hollywood movie style lol


You're killing yourself to serve the Reapers.
You. Are. Killing. Yourself. To. Serve. The. Reapers.

Do you GET IT now?

#34
Dark_Caduceus

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seph22 wrote...

Oilking72 wrote...

Prepare to be ripped by the crowd here, but I'm ok with the endings as is. I wouldn't call them epic, but they were decent enough for me. Life goes on.


To me they were very good, i cried when shepard jumped in the green beam, it was an epic moment knowing you are killing yourself to save people, instead of seeing the ending as what they are some people just bash the developer just because it's not happy ending, as what someone said here they want happy ending guy+girl get together etc basically Hollywood movie style lol


Fair enough.
Have you considered that jumping in the green beam only accomplishes what the Reapers set out to do(namely, make a galaxy full of synthetic/organic hybrids)? And do you not have a problem with irrovicably changing the genetic make-up of everything in the galaxy?

#35
Guest_BringBackNihlus_*

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I didn't play all three of these game for the finale to be left up to interpretation. I want a definitive ending, not some crazy montage of random cutscenes.

I don't hate it because Shepard dies - there should be situation where it happens, but I think there also should be a real, good ending. I don't think the majority of us are asking for the world. I'm pretty sure they can create (a) new ending(s) if they can make things like LotSB and Arrival.

#36
Evil_medved

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I dunno, those endings were looking better in Deus Ex 12 years ago, bioware copied it to the letter and still failed to deliver.

#37
moviebuff3000

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Didnt BW say that they would do spin offs in the ME universe? This is the end of Shepards story so there are plot holes and such but that can easily be patched in a spin off. Why do you think BW said to keep your ME3 saves? For your health?

#38
Hexxys

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Don't feed the troll guys xD

#39
Citizen Q

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seph22 wrote...

Citizen Q wrote...

No, the endings are awful and both a logical and emotional disconnect from the rest of the trilogy.

Nevermind the fact that they invalidate EVERY SINGLE CHOICE made across all three games.


War assets want to talk with you, if you did everything wrong in ME1/ME2 you wont get enough support and the earth will be burned, what you did in me1/me2 matters you saved the earth


Unsurprisingly, you miss my point.

How does curing the Genophage or saving Wrex matter after the endings?

Answer: it doesn't. In the best ending, Wrex is still stranded on Earth, seperated from his people, who are very likely to continue with their foolish was absent his leadership.

I could go on, but I imagine you would simplt miss the point agian.

#40
seph22

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Balmung31 wrote...

What does it matter to you if they add happy endings? We're not asking them to take away the ones that are there at all! All we want is the OPTION.

It wouldn't affect you IN THE SLIGHTEST.


I also want an ending where tali and shepard gets together, etc

That's not the point, the developers should not be FORCED to create happy endings, and not creating one does not mean they should get bashed

#41
sorentoft

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Morrden wrote...

Oh look, another post about how people only hate the ending because it's not happy.

I sure am glad it had nothing to do with lack of closure, huge plot holes, and a complete change in theme and tone. Otherwise you'd look pretty silly right now.



#42
wordson

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 Im glad someone enjoyed the game, but the rest of us didnt. If they do change the ending through dlc, then guess what? You dont have to download or play the new ending! amazing, isnt it?

#43
mcordonc

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Do you remember the ending of Dragon Age Origins? Where you saw the effects of your action all across Feralden. Was that a "boring happy ending" ? No. It was exciting to see that your decisions actually had some effect on the land. To actually see those things matter in the end was amazing. There never really was much in terms of endings that you actually choose. Sure, there were games like fable and the elder of scrolls series, but those only showed you to a certain extent what happened. What bioware did with Dragon Age Origins is really what made the game for me and probably many others. It wasn't boring. It was the complete opposite. It made it so damn interesting I wanted to play it again and again.

That's what we want with the Mass Effect series. A reason to replay it and take it down a different path that isn't determined by something a closed minded reaper.

#44
Guest_BringBackNihlus_*

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Almostfaceman wrote...

By Tartilus here: http://social.biowar...5/index/9836008

1. The endings are extremely sad. This is a much-maligned criticism by individuals who associate depth with the perceived darkness of the endings, and that may or may not be a fair point. Regardless, it stands as obvious that many people were hoping for an ending which proffered some hope beyond that available in even the 'happiest' of endings.

2. The endings contain plotholes. The escape of the Normandy and the teleportation of her crew (including the formerly deceased) are the most obvious, but the lack of sufficient explanation regarding the Catalyst's efforts and origin also makes many of his/its motivations bizarre and unsatisfying.

3. The endings fail to fit in with the broadest themes of the series. Slightly different from 1, this criticism notes that the story of Commander Shepherd has always been a story of achieving the impossible with the help of a close crew and rigorous preparation. The endings as offered do not incorporate the crew, do not change significantly in response to your preparation, and while perhaps technically constitute doing the impossible, fail to meet even that low bar which is a solution that does not have an inevitable cross-racial holocaust and galactic dark age as its result.

4. The endings lack variety. This criticism can be directed at both the artistic and story aspects of the ending – the results of the ending decision not only vary little (at least, and this is important, on a scale which is important to our experiences in the game), but the resulting cinematics have only minor differences, and the various sub-endings result in changes so small as to be entirely unnoticeable. Consider that some way could've been contrived to make the Synthetic option differ from the Control option in a fashion greater than a change in the color of the 'light' and a different Texture for Joker in the games final seconds.

5. The mechanics of the ending are not appropriate. Without repeating the various criticisms as regards the ending closely mirroring Deus Ex's, the culmination of the story with a game-show-esque approach to saving the world very much fails to be satisfactory, especially when Mass Effect has otherwise been about the integration of choice into the experience

6. The endings lack dependency on the player's choices prior to the last five minutes. This is important, because the entire rest of Mass Effect 3 was about reacting to previous decisions; consider that, provided one is able to fill the 'war asset' bar in a satisfactory manner via some other means, the decisions in the third game serve no purpose to explain, shape, or enhance the endings. This seems contrary to the spirit of the other 95% of the experience.

7. The endings do not make sense given the character of Shepherd. As has been state elsewhere, we are playing some heroic badass who has otherwise talked down to, shrugged off, and inevitably defeated everyone who threatened, cajoled, or otherwise tried to force him to do something he didn't wish to do. In the ending to ME3, this character offers no rigorous questioning, no protests, no counter-arguments, no discussion of any kind save a resigned sort of death-march which could not be more contrary to his character. This is distressing.

8. The endings have implications, perhaps unintended, which seem to ruin the ME Universe. Admittedly, many of these implications could be avoided, but the lack of contrary evidence fosters a suspicion that these matters were either otherwise not considered, or supposed to be generally acceptable. Indeed, they might even be, but only with proper elaboration, of which there is none.

9. The endings fail to provide closure. There is, as a diagram that is floating around illustrates, no falling action. No conclusion. I do not know what happened to my squadmates – I do not, for reasons that may be bug related, even know which of them is alive. I do not know what happens to the universe, or to the people I've saved. I do not know how I'm remembered, or if any of the terrible things mentioned above actually happens. There almost could not possibly have been less information provided regarding the ending of the game, and that is incredibly distressing when the intention was to wrap up a series that had otherwise displayed all the signs of excellency and had a fond place in our hearts.


His thoughts on the ending should be in every one of these threads. No one can say it better than this.

#45
Dark_Caduceus

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seph22 wrote...

Balmung31 wrote...

What does it matter to you if they add happy endings? We're not asking them to take away the ones that are there at all! All we want is the OPTION.

It wouldn't affect you IN THE SLIGHTEST.


I also want an ending where tali and shepard gets together, etc

That's not the point, the developers should not be FORCED to create happy endings, and not creating one does not mean they should get bashed


I'm not forcing them. I don't demand a change to the endings to placate my wishes, I demand an explanation as to how these endings make logical sense and why they decided to choose them.

I don't believe artists should be accountable for changing their work based on the audiences wishes, i do believe they're accountable to explain in some capacity why they created their art and why they chose the direction they did.

#46
Shadow-Novus

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seph22 wrote...

<snip>
 instead of seeing the ending as what they are some people just bash the developer just because it's not happy ending, as what someone said here they want happy ending guy+girl get together etc basically Hollywood movie style lol


You're either not reading people's reasoning or flat out ignoring them. It is not about getting a happy ending, its about getting one that makes sense and doesn't invalidate the last 2 games with their heavy focus on choice, isn't filled with plot holes and doesn't provide any closure. Read some of the well thought out responses before you go "people just want hollywood endings lol"

#47
The Angry One

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seph22 is not listening to a thing we say, cherry picking responses where he can repeat himself ad nauseum. Ignore and move on.

#48
yukon fire

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seph22 wrote...

If you someone didn't see everything they have no rights to complain

Here is a video of all endings+2 secret endings in case some didn't see them i guess.


The rage of many people started before they even played the game, some even since they read the leaked script ages ago, what do you prefer as an ending? the Hey we did active the machine/it shoots lasers/all reapers died/we win boring ending #14543343 that million movie/game did before?

Honestly i love the endings ! there is also a mystery about it, why shepard is alive in one of them?
I have no problem with happy endings but no developer should be forced to create boring happy ending #25465

I'm a huge fan so bioware keep it up :) even if the ending sucked (It didn't) almost everyone does agree that ME3 is the best mass effect and they don't deserve all the bashing

Will await any future DLC, DAY1 for me from the best developers in the world bioware


Can't so see the rEApers are using you, you've already been indoctrinated! (as if your picture didn't already betray you) 

#49
ed87

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The crucible was essentially a huge vending machine that allowed you to pick 3 flavours of the same ending

#50
Balmung31

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seph22 wrote...

Balmung31 wrote...

What does it matter to you if they add happy endings? We're not asking them to take away the ones that are there at all! All we want is the OPTION.

It wouldn't affect you IN THE SLIGHTEST.


I also want an ending where tali and shepard gets together, etc

That's not the point, the developers should not be FORCED to create happy endings, and not creating one does not mean they should get bashed


No one's forcing them.  We're asking them to.  And I'm betting a lot of us are willing to pay if necessary. 

If anything, you're trying to force YOUR vision of how Shepard's story should end on US.  Not even Bioware can really do that after they've said countless times it's OUR Shepard's story.