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Please Don't change the Endings ME3 endings are epic (Bioware respond to endings)


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#151
DaneWolf

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mebtru wrote...

DaneWolf wrote...

Well.. There IS a hppy ending. An ending where Shep survives... However not an happy ending for the rest of the galaxy's trade routes now that the Mass Realys are destroyed. But I guess The Alliance and the rest of the survivers on earth are working together to try and "fix" the problems... I mean... Didn't they have the schematics for Mass Realys in the archives back on mars?!? :)


Sadly no :( http://masseffect.wi...wiki/Mass_Relay, in mars they found the  location of a  mass relay, but the only one that really made one was the proteans (and it was a small one leading only to the citadel).


Oh well.. Then Bioware never planned on expanding the universe?? Offcourse they did. There must be somthing... They sayed themselves that the story Of Commander Shepard ended in ME3... However they allso sayed that they wanted to make new games. I think they will.

#152
aliengmr1

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blindchaos wrote...

s.nebulous wrote...

So an artist/writer cannot add new contend after reviewing player feedback? Then think of it like Mass Effect 3 the director’s cut. I have not beaten the game yet, so I cannot give an honest opinion of the endings. I just find it interesting that some people believe Bioware ought to draw a line in the sand.


I can only speak for myself, but that's the opposite of what I want.  I think new content adressing player feedback is going to be the only thing that can redeem this franchise in the eyes of some people and even that will probably not be enough.

What I am saying is, that the response should be honest new content, content that clarafies and addresses the numerous plot holes, rather then just shoving it under a rug.  My only concenr with the people demanding a "New Ending" Is that it will perpetuate the idea that gamers do not want, or cannot handle darker and less uplifting ending. 

More specifically I am worried that this will help create a precident that removes creative control of game's stories from the hands of writers and developers and put it in the hands of a mob mentality.  This is a broad worry, and one not founded on real evidence so I am more then willing to classify it as irrational, but I just think fan concerns and problems can be adressed without completely backing down to public pressure.


Creative control is an illusion. Big publishers control what stories get made in the first place based on what will sell the most. Its unfortunate but true. Futhermore ME is a unique case. There are plenty of threads explaining so I won't go into it. With a very few exceptions, stories in games aren't very important and certainly not important enough to petition to get them changed.

As to the the New ending thing. We are talking about the end to a trilogy that has always been about "choice". Meaning that above all people want their choices to matter. If you did everything you could to be the best Shep you could be, why do you deserve a dark ending?  Why have LI at all if there wasn't at least the possibility of seeing them again? Why work so hard for war assets if there isn't even a chance I could make out alive? Its not that I feel "entitled" to a certain ending, I just want to be able to work for that option.

#153
s.nebulous

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seph22 wrote...

dkear1 wrote...

Come on OP and get real. If you like the game then fantastic for you. If we don't and want a fix then what is the problem with letting us have it?


Because if you add chessy happy ending it would ruin the epic sacrfice of commander shepard killing himself to save everything, it would be just "nah that's just alternative ending that no one take seriously (like shepard dying at the end of ME2)

It would turn current ending from epic ending into "joke ending"



I don’t look at it that way, say they do add more endings,I might very well still pick to sacrifice my Shepard and that ending will be the “correct choice” for that play through.
Just like I can get all hot for Kaiden and leave him to explode on Virmire adding more tragedy to my story. I appreciated that freedom. I also feel for the people upset by the removal of those kind of choices we learned to expect from the trilogy.

#154
mebtru

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DaneWolf wrote...

Oh well.. Then Bioware never planned on expanding the universe?? Offcourse they did. There must be somthing... They sayed themselves that the story Of Commander Shepard ended in ME3... However they allso sayed that they wanted to make new games. I think they will.


How do you know that, a lot of us think they planned and awesome ending in wich all your choices will be reflected like the other 2 games did. They also said that our choices  will affect the end of the game :(.

That is one of the reasons a lot of us are complaining the ending didnt tell us anything, there is no explanation, no epilogue just a lot of guessing.

#155
DaneWolf

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mebtru wrote...

DaneWolf wrote...

Oh well.. Then Bioware never planned on expanding the universe?? Offcourse they did. There must be somthing... They sayed themselves that the story Of Commander Shepard ended in ME3... However they allso sayed that they wanted to make new games. I think they will.


How do you know that, a lot of us think they planned and awesome ending in wich all your choices will be reflected like the other 2 games did. They also said that our choices  will affect the end of the game :(.

That is one of the reasons a lot of us are complaining the ending didnt tell us anything, there is no explanation, no
epilogue just a lot of guessing.


Well because the Producer hinted the Universe would not end with Shep... Hinted it anyways! :)

But yeah... The choises you make don't have a great impact on the ending... Shame on you Bioware!

#156
RagingCeltik

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What are all you talking about? We have three distinctly different endings. One's got a blue laser, one's got red laser, and one's got a green laser. Flashy colors. Ooooo.

#157
blindchaos

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aliengmr1 wrote...

blindchaos wrote...

s.nebulous wrote...

So an artist/writer cannot add new contend after reviewing player feedback? Then think of it like Mass Effect 3 the director’s cut. I have not beaten the game yet, so I cannot give an honest opinion of the endings. I just find it interesting that some people believe Bioware ought to draw a line in the sand.


I can only speak for myself, but that's the opposite of what I want.  I think new content adressing player feedback is going to be the only thing that can redeem this franchise in the eyes of some people and even that will probably not be enough.

What I am saying is, that the response should be honest new content, content that clarafies and addresses the numerous plot holes, rather then just shoving it under a rug.  My only concenr with the people demanding a "New Ending" Is that it will perpetuate the idea that gamers do not want, or cannot handle darker and less uplifting ending. 

More specifically I am worried that this will help create a precident that removes creative control of game's stories from the hands of writers and developers and put it in the hands of a mob mentality.  This is a broad worry, and one not founded on real evidence so I am more then willing to classify it as irrational, but I just think fan concerns and problems can be adressed without completely backing down to public pressure.


Creative control is an illusion. Big publishers control what stories get made in the first place based on what will sell the most. Its unfortunate but true. Futhermore ME is a unique case. There are plenty of threads explaining so I won't go into it. With a very few exceptions, stories in games aren't very important and certainly not important enough to petition to get them changed.

As to the the New ending thing. We are talking about the end to a trilogy that has always been about "choice". Meaning that above all people want their choices to matter. If you did everything you could to be the best Shep you could be, why do you deserve a dark ending?  Why have LI at all if there wasn't at least the possibility of seeing them again? Why work so hard for war assets if there isn't even a chance I could make out alive? Its not that I feel "entitled" to a certain ending, I just want to be able to work for that option.


To your first point I will agree partially, that creative controll in the purist sense does not exits.  Yes publishers determine which stories are made, and almost always they will  choose safe marketable options.  However, the choices you make within a traditional template can still lead to interesting results, and it is that form of creativity that I find interesting.  The fact that Wrex could die on Virmire, the fairly dark way one can save Mordin in this game, they are all somewhat interesting and occasionally unexpected moves in rather traditional naratives.  It's the desire to see different stories and outcomes that I want, and don't think developers should be forced to make an ending that they don't feel works.

That being said, the ending they gave us is sub par, and I have said often enough that I do not like it.  But my dislike is due to plotholes, and its rather random nature, not it's tone.  I think the tone can be made more uplifitng or more depressing with a true epilogue instead of just scrapping the whole ending. 

As for your second point, I think I partiall agree.  I think the random appearence of your party member aboard the Normandy was inexcusable, and prevented me from being with my personal LI on my playthorugh.  There is no reason for that small victory to be taken away from my shep for the sake of a weak ending.  I also agree that if a player works hard they should be rewarded, and the ending most definatly does not reward players for their hard work maxing out resources.  I merely state that the game did not have one, and rather then demanding they add a "Happy Option" after the fact, instead try to find a way to construct a happy one without udoning the ending they already have written.

I understand if you beleive their is no way to make what happened have a positive spin, and maybe you're right.  I just think that there is more possibility moving the franchise forward and trying to fix it's tone with additional content, then to just linger on a weak ending and just make a "Good Ending" button.  However i do not fault anyone for wanting that, I just am offering my perspective on why I would prefer a different path to getting an uplifiting finale to this franchise.

#158
DaneWolf

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RagingCeltik wrote...

What are all you talking about? We have three distinctly different endings. One's got a blue laser, one's got red laser, and one's got a green laser. Flashy colors. Ooooo.


LOL!!! So... Now I can pick my colour for my Lightsaber... Thanks! :P

#159
Yagamoth3433

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[quote]blindchaos wrote...
I don't think Video Games stories, or
really any stories should be written just to appease the consumer. Then
we just get the same stories and formulas used over and over
again...justified because it's what the people want.[/quote]

[/quote]

So allow me to respond to this quote by elaborating on how a company works.  The first and most important fact is that the companies duty is to its shareholders.  Now you might ask what is the importance of bringing shareholders into this?  The answer is quite simple, you give people what they want because that is what people will pay for.  This in turn creates a profit for the company causing stock prices to rise.  This in turn leads to happy shareholders.  Now on the other hand if you anger people and alienate them the company does not make as much money, which causes the stock value to fall short of its full potential.  This would be a company who is not doing their duty to the shareholders.  At the end of the day the opinion of the entire devlopmental team comes second to the duty to the companies shareholders, and pissing off fans which could potentially lead to bad sales in the future does not support the shareholders.

#160
blindchaos

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[quote]Yagamoth3433 wrote...

[quote]blindchaos wrote...
I don't think Video Games stories, or
really any stories should be written just to appease the consumer. Then
we just get the same stories and formulas used over and over
again...justified because it's what the people want.[/quote]

[/quote]

So allow me to respond to this quote by elaborating on how a company works.  The first and most important fact is that the companies duty is to its shareholders.  Now you might ask what is the importance of bringing shareholders into this?  The answer is quite simple, you give people what they want because that is what people will pay for.  This in turn creates a profit for the company causing stock prices to rise.  This in turn leads to happy shareholders.  Now on the other hand if you anger people and alienate them the company does not make as much money, which causes the stock value to fall short of its full potential.  This would be a company who is not doing their duty to the shareholders.  At the end of the day the opinion of the entire devlopmental team comes second to the duty to the companies shareholders, and pissing off fans which could potentially lead to bad sales in the future does not support the shareholders.

[/quote]

Beleive me, I understand this principle.  I think you missunderstand my point.  I'm not arguing that Bioware leave the story as is, and just say screw the fan outrcry.  It is in their financial best interest to appease the fans and maintain an audience for not just this franchise but their future work.  A quick DLC as an act of appeasement might even turn out to improve their reputation as it would show they listen to their fans. 

Now i think this outcome is unlikely but it probably would be their best option to adress some of the more outspoken displeasure.  However, what I worry is that in a potential haste to generate good publicity or improve their image, we get a even more poorly written "Good Ending" that does nothing more then come off as a ploy to just give the fans whatever they want to shut them up, rather then making an ending or epilogue that could be considered well written. 

While that might make people happy, I think it would be detrimental in the long run in regards to what their writers think they can or cannot get away with writing in the future.  I think a quality DLC more interested on explaining and adressing the most important complaints and serving to provide a more interactive ending would be very good, and would do more good for their reputation then just a generic, everyone lives and the Relays are intact ending would. 

Every work is ideally slave to public perception, and people being outright hostile to this ending cannot go unanswered, if only for the company to maintain customers.  However, I just think there is at least a more interesting way to go about adressing fan complaints then a quick patch with a happy ending.  I'm sry if i'm being unclear, it is rather late where I am and am likely going to log off now.  I again want to say I mean no offense with my posts and am in no way trying to be combative.  I just was trying to vocalize how I would rather see the ending be adressed.

#161
Yagamoth3433

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[quote]blindchaos wrote...

[quote]Yagamoth3433 wrote...

[quote]blindchaos wrote...
I don't think Video Games stories, or
really any stories should be written just to appease the consumer. Then
we just get the same stories and formulas used over and over
again...justified because it's what the people want.[/quote]

[/quote]

So allow me to respond to this quote by elaborating on how a company works.  The first and most important fact is that the companies duty is to its shareholders.  Now you might ask what is the importance of bringing shareholders into this?  The answer is quite simple, you give people what they want because that is what people will pay for.  This in turn creates a profit for the company causing stock prices to rise.  This in turn leads to happy shareholders.  Now on the other hand if you anger people and alienate them the company does not make as much money, which causes the stock value to fall short of its full potential.  This would be a company who is not doing their duty to the shareholders.  At the end of the day the opinion of the entire devlopmental team comes second to the duty to the companies shareholders, and pissing off fans which could potentially lead to bad sales in the future does not support the shareholders.

[/quote]

Beleive me, I understand this principle.  I think you missunderstand my point.  I'm not arguing that Bioware leave the story as is, and just say screw the fan outrcry.  It is in their financial best interest to appease the fans and maintain an audience for not just this franchise but their future work.  A quick DLC as an act of appeasement might even turn out to improve their reputation as it would show they listen to their fans. 

Now i think this outcome is unlikely but it probably would be their best option to adress some of the more outspoken displeasure.  However, what I worry is that in a potential haste to generate good publicity or improve their image, we get a even more poorly written "Good Ending" that does nothing more then come off as a ploy to just give the fans whatever they want to shut them up, rather then making an ending or epilogue that could be considered well written. 

While that might make people happy, I think it would be detrimental in the long run in regards to what their writers think they can or cannot get away with writing in the future.  I think a quality DLC more interested on explaining and adressing the most important complaints and serving to provide a more interactive ending would be very good, and would do more good for their reputation then just a generic, everyone lives and the Relays are intact ending would. 

Every work is ideally slave to public perception, and people being outright hostile to this ending cannot go unanswered, if only for the company to maintain customers.  However, I just think there is at least a more interesting way to go about adressing fan complaints then a quick patch with a happy ending.  I'm sry if i'm being unclear, it is rather late where I am and am likely going to log off now.  I again want to say I mean no offense with my posts and am in no way trying to be combative.  I just was trying to vocalize how I would rather see the ending be adressed.
[/quote]

I apologize if I came off as combative I have been awake for a very long time at this point and just got off work.  My point was more geared towards their original development not what should be done now.  I whole heartedly agree with you that some quick fix will not work.

#162
Tobey2011

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Decent troll, 5/10.

Wouldn't read again though.

BTW, lol! Is it like the new thing to add comments that agree with you to the OP? No comment.

Modifié par Tobey2011, 13 mars 2012 - 09:36 .


#163
muttdude

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 Say no to deus ex machina.

#164
Caz Neerg

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seph22 wrote...

dkear1 wrote...

Come on OP and get real. If you like the game then fantastic for you. If we don't and want a fix then what is the problem with letting us have it?


Because if you add chessy happy ending it would ruin the epic sacrfice of commander shepard killing himself to save everything, it would be just "nah that's just alternative ending that no one take seriously (like shepard dying at the end of ME2)

It would turn current ending from epic ending into "joke ending"


How are three endings where Shep rolls over and does what the Head Reaper says in any way epic? And while an "ultimate sacrifice" ending is certainly appropriate for Paragon characters, why should Renegades be forced into it? Are you saying the choice to be anything other than a Paragon should be effectively removed from the most important choice point in the series?

Modifié par Caz Neerg, 13 mars 2012 - 03:39 .


#165
rvgifford

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 Yeah, I disagree. I'd explain why, but you wouldn't accept it. Glad you enjoyed it, most of us didn't. The game yes, the ending, no! Happy ending optional, good ending mandatory.

#166
Beren09

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Now this is my thread. I also think this endig is perfect in any terms. This is what its meant to be.

#167
Balmung31

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seph22 wrote...


Because if you add chessy happy ending it would ruin the epic sacrfice of commander shepard killing himself to save everything, it would be just "nah that's just alternative ending that no one take seriously (like shepard dying at the end of ME2)

It would turn current ending from epic ending into "joke ending"


In your opinion.  Not mine. 

Stop forcing your Shepard onto others. 

#168
Xion66

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I dislike endings where in the last gap we are introduced a giant ass Plot armour Deus Ex Machina, who through the most bull**** logic forces to kill switch the entire galactic civilization, take away the free will and force every life form into a shared existance, or you becoming a kind of god of the reapers, and destroying the entire galactic civilization while the bad guys still live.

That and, a ship in full battle near earth suddenly teleports an entire crew back on the ship, then teleports into a mass relay JUST when it's about to explode.. every. single.time no.mater.the.logic.or.the.choices.


So yeah, i'd even like Independance day ending than what we had.

PS- Shepard alive after the explosion isn't mysterious, it's a cliche.


Also- A happy ending/ a logical and reasonable ending , doesn't need Shepard alive, he can still sacrifice himself in numerous epic and beautiful ways, none of them having to be,  iamrobot mr. catalys wants me to pick this three options, i will do so.

Modifié par Xion66, 13 mars 2012 - 03:48 .


#169
Matt561

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I don't need a happy ending just one that my choices effect, also with out glaring plot holes.

#170
Chistery

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PRESS BUTTON - GET ENDINGS.

That's what I got out of this. Dozens of hours and I get pretty colored lights.

I'm okay with Shepard dying for the Cause and saving the world, really I am. What I hate is the lack of clear differences between the three options. Does Synthesis really lead to a more peaceful interaction between the Reapers and the organic Galactic community in the long term? Does DESTROY wreck the cosmos for the next hundred years, or only the next handful?

And on a side-note, what on Earth (or off-Earth) happened to the rest of my squad? You know, the characters I poured loyalty mission time and emotional investment into. You think a hatch opening and walking out into a Garden World is enough? Really?

#171
Texhnolyze101

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ass kissing op is ass kissing.

#172
augustburnt

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Here we see the effect casual gamers have on the gaming industry. If it is ****, its no big deal, if its anything like gears or halo, its great. This is why the gaming industry rolls out so much **** each year.

#173
Texhnolyze101

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augustburnt wrote...

Here we see the effect casual gamers have on the gaming industry. If it is ****, its no big deal, if its anything like gears or halo, its great. This is why the gaming industry rolls out so much **** each year.


^ That

#174
Baine10

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Hey, you liked it, that's good.
Get on with your own life, ours is here. You don't really want to convince us of anything, you just want a piece of the action.
Guess what: there isn't any.
So stop posting these kind of threads asking why people are unhappy about the endings when "I am clearly satisfied about it".
Why are you even asking when all you need to do is read the other threads to know everything..?

#175
Jadebaby

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Sorry wasn't going to cift through a 43 minute video which wont show me anything new.

The ending contradicts the lore. Any writer can tell you it's not a good ending.