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[Ieldra]

Furluge wrote...

DarkSpiral wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote... 

Control: You become the Catalyst and the guardian of organic life in the galaxy. What you do with that power is left to your imaginnation. For all we know, Shepard will fly the Reapers into the next black hole and then proceed to destroy himself. Or he may become a benevolent guardian who intervenes when synthetics become too powerful by destroying *them* instead of organics. The mass relays are preserved and galactic civilization will continue. A valid choice.

Why do people keep saying that.  I went and youtubed it, just to be sure, and it simply isn't true.  The Relays are destroyed in every single version of the ending.

I think what they're talking about is how the Citadel isn't destroyed in that one. Which is odd.. it literally makes no sense. I guess Blueberry flavored dye doesn't need to be fired from the Citadel, it just sort of gets there via osmosis.

I don't know why people keep denying this but the relay scene is different in the blue ending. The part where the relay explodes - the ring fragments and parts fly away in all directions - doesn't happen in Control

Also, it makes sense that the Citadel is not destroyed. Because from here Shepard - or what's left of im - will control the Reapers. Shepard becomes the Catalyst, so he's basically incarnated in the Citadel.

The implication is that the blue ending doesn't release the full energy of the Crucible. So....the relays stay intact.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 13 mars 2012 - 12:10 .

[DieHigh2012]

strive wrote...

Destroy: you commit multiple genocide. Not only the of geth and all synthetics, but also the collective minds of all the Reaperized species still resident in the Reaper bodies. Also you are exterminating the memory of millions of years of galactic history.

Synthesis is technically the genocide of all organic and synthetic life in exchange for one new life/dna/framework. You could call it evolving I guess, but that doesn't dismiss the fact a  pre-Synthesis human, asari, krogan, etc doesn't exist anymore.

That is wierd, I saw Joker and EDI. They didn't look dead to me......

[didymos1120]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I don't know why people keep denying this but the relay scene is different in the blue ending. The part where the relay explodes - the ring fragments and parts fly away in all directions - doesn't happen in Control

Yes, but look closely: it still begins to break up, and stuff is flying off of it.

[Furluge]

Elmolee wrote...

Compared the synthesis ending to this old vid....



Hmmmmmm.

Wow... holy crap it's the same right down to the green magic space beams. Crap.

Modifié par Furluge, 13 mars 2012 - 12:22 .

[goofyomnivore]

That is wierd, I saw Joker and EDI. They didn't look dead to me......

You're missing the point. There is no more "human dna" or "geth code" there is synthesis code. The biological code of being human no longer exists.

Modifié par strive, 13 mars 2012 - 12:11 .

[Atraiyu Wrynn]

The game explicitly states that no matter what you choose the relays will be destroyed.

Modifié par Atraiyu Wrynn, 13 mars 2012 - 12:11 .

[DarkSpiral]

Ieldra2 wrote...


I don't know why people keep denying this but the relay scene is different in the blue ending. The part where the relay explodes - the ring fragments and parts fly away in all directions - doesn't happen in Control

<snip>

Because it does happen, Ieldra.  The scene of the relay's destruction is shorter, yes.  But after the blue beam gets fired off, the inner rings on the Sol relays crack, blue explosions happen, and then we cut to the galactic map scene.  The relays are always destroyed.  I watched the scene several time, just to be sure.

[goofyomnivore]

Doesn't the Catalyst say "The Relays will be destroyed when you activate the Crucible" or something. I guess he could be lying, but then you could really argue anything about the endings and the consequences creating an even bigger mess than we have now.

Modifié par strive, 13 mars 2012 - 12:15 .

[jerms510]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Sonashi wrote...
Let's forget about hallucination theory for a moment.

Control ending (in my opinion the worst)- you became new catalyst. You can control Reapers and you decide when new cycle should start (if it's needed). You sacrificed your own life but Geth and EDI lives. Now whole point of stopping TIM in ME 3 is lost.

Synthesis (second)- you sacrificed own life to preserve all races. Reapers still exsists and old Catalyst still has control. So you became sort of slave. For example you don't like something Reapers can make you opposite. Your own will is illusion.

Destroy (the best) - the whole point of ME is about stopping Reapers. Once you destroy them you are safe. Of course you sacrificed all synthetic life. But this is a war you have to do that if you want win. Catalyst is gone. New start without Reaper nanny

Synthesis: you give up everything to defuse the conflict between organics and synthetics, combining them on a higher level so that they no longer need a guardian to watch over them. The Citadel is destroyed (thus: so is the Catalyst) and the mass relays are gone, but the cycle is ended and the problem which it was created to,solve will not arise again.  Another valid choice, its only downside is that the mass relays are gone. The consequences for the species of the galaxy are necessarily vague, but it is heavily suggested by the ending sequence that we're supposed to see them as good. I can go along with that.

No. Despite the fact that THERE WAS NEVER SUCH A DIRE CONFLICT TO BEGIN WITH, making the whole motivation for this foolish AI completely flawed, the whole prospect of the creation rebelling againt their creators is still there. Eventually, these half synthetic people will create AI either by accident or to fulfill certain ends. Why would these AI not attack their creators this time? Because they have a few flashy parts? Was that ever their problem with organics in the first place? Or was it because they were the creators? Or was it because they had different thought processes to AI?

No. This ending shouldn't even stop the Reapers from returning, because one day man-synthetic made AI will SUPPOSEDLY attack their creators again, regardless of how many nuts and bolts they have.

This ending is flawed in it's very premise.

um...what? Javik states that in his cycle there was an identical issue with synthetics overthrowing organic masters and going to war. You have no proof or reference to disprove the assertion that, without the Reaper cycle, synthetic life would ultimately extinguish organic life.

[DieHigh2012]

strive wrote...

That is wierd, I saw Joker and EDI. They didn't look dead to me......

You're missing the point. There is no more "human dna" or "geth code" there is synthesis code. The biological code of being human no longer exists.

Yet their conscious mind is still entact, they are still living. Not dead as the Geth and EDI would be under the destroy option.

Everyone in an entire race dies = genocide

Alteration of everything in the galaxy does not mean genocide.

[Sonashi]

strive wrote...

Synthesis is technically the genocide of all organic and synthetic life in exchange for one new life/dna/framework. You could call it evolving I guess, but that doesn't dismiss the fact a  pre-Synthesis human, geth, asari, krogan, etc doesn't exist anymore.

Yup, that's even worse. Species lost their individuality. Now all races are the same. How boring is that? Could we be able to enjoy our world if all animals, all plants be the same? I don't think so. I understand advantages of synthesis but when you destroy the Reapers it's the new beggining. They decide what to do next, how galaxy will look like. They can build synthetics who will destroy them but this will be their will.

[Ieldra]

didymos1120 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

I don't know why people keep denying this but the relay scene is different in the blue ending. The part where the relay explodes - the ring fragments and parts fly away in all directions - doesn't happen in Control

Yes, but look closely: it still begins to break up, and stuff is flying off of it.

I think this an artifact of the presentation. In the ending scenes, we have a pattern of different outcomes indicated by very subtle changes in the scenes. The difference between Earth is OK and Earth is devastated is apparently that in the former, BIg Ben still stands in the scene with the Reapers falling.

Why do I infer the relays don't explode from the difference in the scenes? Because it makes sense plot-wise, and because the difference would make no sense if it wasn't intentional. Much easier to use the same scenes, don't you think, unless you want to indicate that something significant is really different.

[goofyomnivore]

Yet their conscious mind is still entact, they are still living. Not dead as the Geth and EDI would be under the destroy option.

Everyone in an entire race dies = genocide

There will never be a human baby born again after Synthesis ending. The human dna code is extinct. The human race is dead.

Modifié par strive, 13 mars 2012 - 12:18 .

[Deepthroat]

strive wrote...

That is wierd, I saw Joker and EDI. They didn't look dead to me......

You're missing the point. There is no more "human dna" or "geth code" there is synthesis code. The biological code of being human no longer exists.

I don't see how that's genocide.

[Ieldra]

DarkSpiral wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...


I don't know why people keep denying this but the relay scene is different in the blue ending. The part where the relay explodes - the ring fragments and parts fly away in all directions - doesn't happen in Control

<snip>

Because it does happen, Ieldra.  The scene of the relay's destruction is shorter, yes.  But after the blue beam gets fired off, the inner rings on the Sol relays crack, blue explosions happen, and then we cut to the galactic map scene.  The relays are always destroyed.  I watched the scene several time, just to be sure.

I watched it several times, too, and came to a different conclusion. There is some indication of damage, but destroyed? No way.

[DarkSpiral]

Ieldra2 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

I don't know why people keep denying this but the relay scene is different in the blue ending. The part where the relay explodes - the ring fragments and parts fly away in all directions - doesn't happen in Control

Yes, but look closely: it still begins to break up, and stuff is flying off of it.

I think this an artifact of the presentation. In the ending scenes, we have a pattern of different outcomes indicated by very subtle changes in the scenes. The difference between Earth is OK and Earth is devastated is apparently that in the former, BIg Ben still stands in the scene with the Reapers falling.

Why do I infer the relays don't explode from the difference in the scenes? Because it makes sense plot-wise, and because the difference would make no sense if it wasn't intentional. Much easier to use the same scenes, don't you think, unless you want to indicate that something significant is really different.

Very well.  If you want to interpret it that way.  However, the Catalyst very clearly states that releasing the energy of the Crucible will destroy the relays.  And then it happens, in three different colors.

[Furluge]

Sonashi wrote...

strive wrote...

Synthesis is technically the genocide of all organic and synthetic life in exchange for one new life/dna/framework. You could call it evolving I guess, but that doesn't dismiss the fact a  pre-Synthesis human, geth, asari, krogan, etc doesn't exist anymore.

Yup, that's even worse. Species lost their individuality. Now all races are the same. How boring is that? Could we be able to enjoy our world if all animals, all plants be the same? I don't think so. I understand advantages of synthesis but when you destroy the Reapers it's the new beggining. They decide what to do next, how galaxy will look like. They can build synthetics who will destroy them but this will be their will.

You do realize that IRL every species that we know of uses DNA, right? I'm pretty sure you're not saying that because we all use the same DNA that there isn't any difference between us and say, a duck.

Thats not true. For starters, witches weigh more than ducks.

[Dorryn]

Synthesis is certainly the best of the three endings, but to me it's only because the last moment with Joker and EDI is different.

[DarkSpiral]

Furluge wrote...

Sonashi wrote...

strive wrote...

Synthesis is technically the genocide of all organic and synthetic life in exchange for one new life/dna/framework. You could call it evolving I guess, but that doesn't dismiss the fact a  pre-Synthesis human, geth, asari, krogan, etc doesn't exist anymore.

Yup, that's even worse. Species lost their individuality. Now all races are the same. How boring is that? Could we be able to enjoy our world if all animals, all plants be the same? I don't think so. I understand advantages of synthesis but when you destroy the Reapers it's the new beggining. They decide what to do next, how galaxy will look like. They can build synthetics who will destroy them but this will be their will.

You do realize that IRL every species that we know of uses DNA, right? I'm pretty sure you're not saying that because we all use the same DNA that there isn't any difference between us and say, a duck.

Thats not true. For starters, witches weigh more than ducks.

But they both still float!

[Master Shiori]

ticklefist wrote...

Let me preface by saying I don't find any of these endings satisfying. Still, they are what they are and they're not going away. Every single ending has its own positives and negatives.

So true. This I agree with completely.

ticklefist wrote...


Green creates what will be a peaceful end of the cycle for all time. It is both the most virtuous and most selfless. You save everybody at the cost of your own life but you destroy the mass relays in the process.

Not quite.

Sure, The Catalyst claims it's the next step in evolution and a "final solution", but it said the same thing about Reapers and then admitted that their solution doesn't work anymore. 
Also, the Reapers may be changed in this ending, but they're still out there somewhere and this time without anyone to control them. Who's to say they won't decide to revert back to their original goal of destroying all advanced life every 50k years?

Finally, what right does Shepard (or anyone else for that matter) have to decide what life in the galaxy should be like? Isn't one of the main themes of Mass Effect the premise that every form of life has the right to choose it's own destiny, make it's own choices (including mistakes) and solve it's own problems? 

Isn't that right to live and self determine the very reason you're fighting the Reapers?

And you'd throw all that away based on a word of some entity you met 5 minutes ago and which, by it's own admition, was wrong before and could be wrong again?

Sorry, but synthesis leaves far to many unknowns to be considered the "best" solution for the whole galaxy.

ticklefist wrote...


Blue is the middle road. You develop a peace of sorts. You save the Citadel and mass relays (watch the vids) but you're no better than TIM. You do not die, but you do not carry on living. While seemingly good, not entirely selfless.

IMO, this is the worst case scenario of all 3. 

Nobody, aside from the Catalyst, has ever been able to control the Reapers. The last guy who tried that, TIM, got indoctrinated. If no organic being could do it, what guarantee do we have Shep will? Because he/she is a an extraordinary individual? Sure, but he/she is still human. There's no guarantee she/he won't slip at some point or get overwhelmed by the Reapers.

ticklefist wrote...

Red is the seemingly right choice. Using Anderson as the avatar of this choice is a deception. It's actually the worst and most selfish. You only end the current cycle. You kill all synthetic life including allies and friends. You destroy the mass relays. You live.

It also gives you the least unknowns. 

1) the Reapers are destoyed and the cicle is broken. Nass Relays ad Citadel go BOOM!

2) Synthetic life (EDI and Geth) is destroyed, yes, but organic life that remains stay as it is and is free to pursue a future on their own terms. The pirce is heavy, but the result is complete freedom for those who remain.

3) Organics will make new synthetics which will turn on their creators
The most deceptiive notion out of everything the Catalyst said. Sure, Geth and Quarians initially support this claim, due to them turning on each other, but Geth were pushed into conflict to preserve themselves. They were willing to accept a peeaceful solution when it was presented to them. 

And finaly, EDI herself. A creation that turns on it's creators (Cerberus) and does what? Saves organics (crew of the Normandy) and evolves into something quite human. A perfect example that the 2 forms of life can coexist and even become similar without the whole "godlike transformation" of synthesis.

[DieHigh2012]

strive wrote...

Yet their conscious mind is still entact, they are still living. Not dead as the Geth and EDI would be under the destroy option.

Everyone in an entire race dies = genocide

There will never be a human baby born again after Synthesis ending. The human dna code is extinct. The human race is dead.

The human race has changed, they are not dead.

[didymos1120]

DarkSpiral wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

I don't know why people keep denying this but the relay scene is different in the blue ending. The part where the relay explodes - the ring fragments and parts fly away in all directions - doesn't happen in Control

Yes, but look closely: it still begins to break up, and stuff is flying off of it.

I think this an artifact of the presentation. In the ending scenes, we have a pattern of different outcomes indicated by very subtle changes in the scenes. The difference between Earth is OK and Earth is devastated is apparently that in the former, BIg Ben still stands in the scene with the Reapers falling.

Why do I infer the relays don't explode from the difference in the scenes? Because it makes sense plot-wise, and because the difference would make no sense if it wasn't intentional. Much easier to use the same scenes, don't you think, unless you want to indicate that something significant is really different.

Very well.  If you want to interpret it that way.  However, the Catalyst very clearly states that releasing the energy of the Crucible will destroy the relays.  And then it happens, in three different colors.

Even if we accept that reasoning, we're still left with Bioware being egregiously cheap and lazy.

[Ieldra]

strive wrote...
Doesn't the Catalyst say "The Relays will be destroyed when you activate the Crucible" or something. I guess he could be lying, but then you could really argue anything about the endings and the consequences creating an even bigger mess than we have now.

It says "Releasing the energy of the Crucible will end the cycle, but it will also destroy the mass relays".

Well, in Control the cycle is not ended, and the Catalyst never says which of the options will release the energy of the Crucible. Also it makes sense to assume that controlling the Reapers will take quite a bit less energy. 

I say that the relays are not destroyed in Control is supported by the presentation, AND it makes sense.

[goofyomnivore]

Modifié par strive, 13 mars 2012 - 12:25 .

[Deepthroat]

strive wrote...

Yet their conscious mind is still entact, they are still living. Not dead as the Geth and EDI would be under the destroy option.

Everyone in an entire race dies = genocide

There will never be a human baby born again after Synthesis ending. The human dna code is extinct. The human race is dead.

I think this is why many can't accept the endings as something positive. They can't see past the boundaries of their own species. They don't really care about something as vague as the survival of (at least half-) organic life in the galaxy.

So what, there will be half human half synthetic babies, or whatever. Is that really worse than the Reaper genocide?