779 réponses à ce sujet

[Red Templar]

jerms510 wrote...
um...what? Javik states that in his cycle there was an identical issue with synthetics overthrowing organic masters and going to war. You have no proof or reference to disprove the assertion that, without the Reaper cycle, synthetic life would ultimately extinguish organic life.

And there's no proof or reference to support the Reaper's assertion that it is inevitable. There have been conflicts between organics and synthetics, just like there have been conflicts between organics and organics. No such conflict has actually led to the destruction of all organic life, because organic life still exits, and therefore the Reapers are operating on a presumption that is just as likely to be flawed and false as it is to have any accuracy. The Reapers are self-introctrinated into only seeing one outcome and one solution. There's no reason to believe that they have the right of it, especially considering the examples of EDI and the geth.

[Ieldra]

didymos1120 wrote...
Even if we accept that reasoning, we're still left with Bioware being egregiously cheap and lazy.

I wouldn't say that, but the very minor differences in the scenes certainly didn't help in making the endings clearer. Unless they're deliberately vague.

[goofyomnivore]

[quote]
You do realize that IRL every species that we know of uses DNA, right? I'm pretty sure you're not saying that because we all use the same DNA that there isn't any difference between us and say, a duck.[/quote]

Synthesis creates a new DNA. The old DNA is gone, extinct, kaput. Ducks, humans, plants whatever pre-Synthesis cease to exist as a biological code.[/quote]


[quote]

The human race has changed, they are not dead.
[/quote]

A neanderthal and a human today is an example of changing. Synthesis is rebooting the whole DNA code.


[quote]
I think this is why many can't accept the endings as something positive.[/quote]

I wasn't dismissing it as not being positive. I was responding to someone saying the Destroy ending is genocide/extinction of races when Synthesis does that for the whole DNA code things have evolved on forever.

Modifié par strive, 13 mars 2012 - 12:27 .

[DarkSpiral]

All the vids I've found on youtube skip the kid's dialogue, so I have to ask, does anyone recall what the Catalyst actually SAYS in regard to synthesis? Does he say it rewrites everyone's DNA? I don't remember anymore.

[Tony208]

jerms510 wrote...

Tony208 wrote...


What...? You naturally evolved into what you are today. If tomorrow you had green circuit veins because someone shot you with a magic explosion, your free will was violated, it's as simple as that.

if you act upon someone, you've violated their free will. I think you're making way too much of it. If it rains tomorrow, I won't be happy. I want it to be sunny. That doesn't negate my free will, it just has no consideration for it. Things happen outside of your control; its a fact of life. It doesn't negate your free will; you just f*cking deal with it. Lemons into lemonade, as it were. If you woke up tomorrow looking different, would you seriously start ranting about your free will? or would you just work around it?

First, rain can't negate your free will. And you'd be fine if someone violated you during the night and you woke up different tomorrow?  Wow, enjoy your new circuit veins.

[Furluge]

Master Shiori wrote...


2) Synthetic life (EDI and Geth) is destroyed, yes, but organic life that remains stay as it is and is free to pursue a future on their own terms. The pirce is heavy, but the result is complete freedom for those who remain.

Would your answer be the same if instead the shockwave from destroy would kill the reapers and all Dextro-amino acid based life in the galaxy? (Namely the Quarians and the Turians)

[didymos1120]

Ieldra2 wrote...

It says "Releasing the energy of the Crucible will end the cycle, but it will also destroy the mass relays".

Well, in Control the cycle is not ended, and the Catalyst never says which of the options will release the energy of the Crucible.

Um, the energy is released.  That's not disputable: we're shown it happening.

Also it makes sense to assume that controlling the Reapers will take quite a bit less energy. 

What actually makes sense is that it wouldn't take something that destructive at all, but simply the Catalyst, which controls them, saying "Hey people: KNOCK IT OFF" once Shep merges with it or whatever the hell was going on there.

[DarkSpiral]

Tony208 wrote...

jerms510 wrote...

Tony208 wrote...


What...? You naturally evolved into what you are today. If tomorrow you had green circuit veins because someone shot you with a magic explosion, your free will was violated, it's as simple as that.

if you act upon someone, you've violated their free will. I think you're making way too much of it. If it rains tomorrow, I won't be happy. I want it to be sunny. That doesn't negate my free will, it just has no consideration for it. Things happen outside of your control; its a fact of life. It doesn't negate your free will; you just f*cking deal with it. Lemons into lemonade, as it were. If you woke up tomorrow looking different, would you seriously start ranting about your free will? or would you just work around it?

First, rain can't negate your free will. And you'd be fine if someone violated you during the night and you woke up different tomorrow?  Wow, enjoy your new circuit veins.

If our free will was in fact negated, we wouldn't be abkle to be pissed an rant about our free will being violated.  If you CAN rant, we still have free will. :

Modifié par DarkSpiral, 13 mars 2012 - 12:28 .

[DieHigh2012]

strive wrote...

You do realize that IRL every species that we know of uses DNA, right? I'm pretty sure you're not saying that because we all use the same DNA that there isn't any difference between us and say, a duck.

Synthesis creates a new DNA. The old DNA is gone, extinct, kaput. Ducks, humans, plants whatever pre-Synthesis cease to exist as a biological code.

You do realize that evolution rearranged our genitic code making us who we are and not chimps. That is exactly what happens hear, but it skips long time it normally takes.

How do you know it changes the very nature of DNA? it does not say anything like that in the game. Perhaps the sythetics got DNA while organics got cybernetics...

[Furluge]

DarkSpiral wrote...

All the vids I've found on youtube skip the kid's dialogue, so I have to ask, does anyone recall what the Catalyst actually SAYS in regard to synthesis? Does he say it rewrites everyone's DNA? I don't remember anymore.

TA DA!

[nitefyre410]

All the endings are reset button... but Synthesis is the Reset button plus Space Magic that is really pushing it...

It would have have lovely in another series played to a this kind of ending but Mass Effect... nope.. it just plan fails.

"There is another solution  - Synthesis.  This will create a new frame, a new   DNA. ..." 

from what I remember. 

Modifié par nitefyre410, 13 mars 2012 - 12:30 .

[Ieldra]

@Red Templar:
There is never any proof that anything is inevitable. From some point onwards, you just have to accept the evidence. The problem in this specific case is that there is as much evidence for the claim as there is against it. I think we're supposed to take the Catalyst's word for it, and I would, only that defusing the quarian/geth conflict makes a joke of the claim.

I still go along with it, but it's really bad writing. I'm usually reluctant to make such an accusation, but it's a glaring contradiction.

[Deepthroat]

DarkSpiral wrote...

All the vids I've found on youtube skip the kid's dialogue, so I have to ask, does anyone recall what the Catalyst actually SAYS in regard to synthesis? Does he say it rewrites everyone's DNA? I don't remember anymore.

He says that the chain reaction will combine all synthetic and organic life into a new framework - a new DNA.

[Furluge]

strive wrote...
Synthesis creates a new DNA. The old DNA is gone, extinct, kaput. Ducks, humans, plants whatever pre-Synthesis

<---- My Point






<----- Your head

To sum it up. Before Synthesis all organic life uses the same basis. (DNA) Yet it's not all the same bloody thing. IRL DNA allows for incredible amounts of variety of life. There's no reason to think after Synthesis everything will be the same.

Modifié par Furluge, 13 mars 2012 - 12:32 .

[goofyomnivore]

How do you know it changes the very nature of DNA? it does not say anything like that in the game. Perhaps the sythetics got DNA while organics got cybernetics...

The Catalyst says "a new framework a new dna" or something like that.

Modifié par strive, 13 mars 2012 - 12:31 .

[jerms510]

Master Shiori wrote...


3) Organics will make new synthetics which will turn on their creators
The most deceptiive notion out of everything the Catalyst said. Sure, Geth and Quarians initially support this claim, due to them turning on each other, but Geth were pushed into conflict to preserve themselves. They were willing to accept a peeaceful solution when it was presented to them. 

And finaly, EDI herself. A creation that turns on it's creators (Cerberus) and does what? Saves organics (crew of the Normandy) and evolves into something quite human. A perfect example that the 2 forms of life can coexist and even become similar without the whole "godlike transformation" of synthesis.

...I wish people would stop using the Geth and EDI as "proof" that the godchild is wrong about synthetic life. We a) don't know anything about previous cycles, aside from Javik's info about his prothean cycle (which he states there was another synthetic rebellion), and have no idea what will happen without Reaper intervention, so cannot say for sure that synthetic and organic life can coexist indefinitely. Using a single AI as your sample size is incredibly irresponsible and incredulous. NOT TO MENTION that EDI started out as the rogue VI on Luna that was trying to pull a Bender and kill all humans. You can't seriously suggest that a single program that has been self-aware for less than two years can prove or disprove, well, anything across the board.

[seitani]

IsaacShep wrote...

Forgetting about all the plotholes why did the Normandy ended up on the jungle planet, I'm REALLY liking the synthesis ending. it requires Shep to sacrifice himself completely (in control ending it's just the body), yet seeing EDI and Joker smile and how life got trasformed was just beautiful.

And Saren is a nice guy with good intentions

[Gibb_Shepard]

Ieldra2, would you mind replying to my point? I want to see why you think synthesis will not cause this supposed inevitability.

No. Despite the fact that THERE WAS NEVER SUCH A DIRE CONFLICT TO BEGIN WITH, making the whole motivation for this foolish AI completely flawed, the whole prospect of the creation rebelling againt their creators is still there. Eventually, these half synthetic people will create AI either by accident or to fulfill certain ends. Why would these AI not attack their creators this time? Because they have a few flashy parts? Was that ever their problem with organics in the first place? Or was it because they were the creators? Or was it because they had different thought processes to AI?

No. This ending shouldn't even stop the Reapers from returning, because one day man-synthetic made AI will SUPPOSEDLY attack their creators again, regardless of how many nuts and bolts they have.

This ending is flawed in it's very premise.

Modifié par Gibb_Shepard, 13 mars 2012 - 12:33 .

[Harbinger of Hope]

The Angry One wrote...

Congratulations, you've become Saren.

Yup. Control is the best IMO. Who's to say Shep can't just tell every Reaper to fly into the nearest sun? Same ending as Destroy without all the messy genocide.

[ArcanistLibram]

The Synthesis ending is somewhat marred by the fact that it gives the Reapers exactly what they wanted.

[Sonashi]

Furluge wrote...

You do realize that IRL every species that we know of uses DNA, right? I'm pretty sure you're not saying that because we all use the same DNA that there isn't any difference between us and say, a duck.

Thats not true. For starters, witches weigh more than ducks.

Let me put it this way.
In our world child receive DNA from mother and father. Crossing-over you know. It provides individuality of all new born human. In ME 3 after synthesis it doesn't exist anymore. All species lost their individuality. So doesn't matter if father is a krogan or human. How can this be a good thing? All in all baby will be the same THING no matter what. Yes I called them things becasue they aren't humans anymore

[jerms510]

Sonashi wrote...

<-------Biology




<-------Your head

DNA is the same across species, it just gets arranged differently. So yes, there will be a new DNA due to synthesis, but by no means does that mean everything is now the same species. Back to high school with you.

Modifié par jerms510, 13 mars 2012 - 12:35 .

[DieHigh2012]

strive wrote...

How do you know it changes the very nature of DNA? it does not say anything like that in the game. Perhaps the sythetics got DNA while organics got cybernetics...

The Catalyst says "a new framework a new dna" or something like that.

That's evolution, not genocide...

He did not say DNA no longer exists, or it's basic nature has changed.

Modifié par DieHigh2012, 13 mars 2012 - 12:36 .

[DieHigh2012]

jerms510 wrote...

Sonashi wrote...

<-------Biology




<-------Your head

DNA is the same across species, it just gets arranged differently. So yes, there will be a new DNA due to synthesis, but by no means does that mean everything is now the same species. Back to high school with you.

The godchild does not say the nature or basic tennates of DNA will change, it will only be rearranged. Like evolution...

[Tony208]

jerms510 wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...


3) Organics will make new synthetics which will turn on their creators
The most deceptiive notion out of everything the Catalyst said. Sure, Geth and Quarians initially support this claim, due to them turning on each other, but Geth were pushed into conflict to preserve themselves. They were willing to accept a peeaceful solution when it was presented to them. 

And finaly, EDI herself. A creation that turns on it's creators (Cerberus) and does what? Saves organics (crew of the Normandy) and evolves into something quite human. A perfect example that the 2 forms of life can coexist and even become similar without the whole "godlike transformation" of synthesis.

...I wish people would stop using the Geth and EDI as "proof" that the godchild is wrong about synthetic life. We a) don't know anything about previous cycles, aside from Javik's info about his prothean cycle (which he states there was another synthetic rebellion), and have no idea what will happen without Reaper intervention, so cannot say for sure that synthetic and organic life can coexist indefinitely. Using a single AI as your sample size is incredibly irresponsible and incredulous. NOT TO MENTION that EDI started out as the rogue VI on Luna that was trying to pull a Bender and kill all humans. You can't seriously suggest that a single program that has been self-aware for less than two years can prove or disprove, well, anything across the board.

What's to stop synthetics from killing other synthetics? Is the godchild going to kill everything so nothing can kill each other?

This is not about synthetics vs. organics. The Geth and the Reapers fight each other as well.

The whole premise in the ending is complete nonsense.